Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn

[mushroomgod]

South of Louisville, Kentucky has an ex-slave state mentality. There is no way they would ever join the Big 10.

 

[huskypantz]

In Football, the eventual move is to a 9 game schedule. This 15 Team League sets up perfectly. You play your four (4) division opponents every year and you play a Home/Away series with the another divisions (5) opponents, rotating after every 2 seasons of play. That way, traditional rivalries can be maintained and you play everyone in your conference at least every third year.

I really like the 5-team, 3 division setup idea but it has some mathematical complications. If you have 9 games and 15 teams, you have an odd number of games so one team has to play 8 games. You'd also need to split your non-divisional games between the other 2 divisions. Not a game-changer, but if d1 and d2 play their crossover games against each other it leaves d3 without crossover opponents. Overall it's a pretty cool way to ensure you play (almost) every school every other year and your divisional opponents annually.

 

[Stinger92860]

Mr. Delany? Is that you?

Nobody has any idea what's going to happen. But claiming that Syracuse doesn't have similar pull in NYC is just idiotic.

The discussion was around cuse, b1g and TV sets. We have a bigger bump in this regard. Why the constant naming calling, you must be a dream at home and work.

 

[MarbleheadHusky]

I really like the 5-team, 3 division setup idea but it has some mathematical complications. If you have 9 games and 15 teams, you have an odd number of games so one team has to play 8 games. You'd also need to split your non-divisional games between the other 2 divisions. Not a game-changer, but if d1 and d2 play their crossover games against each other it leaves d3 without crossover opponents. Overall it's a pretty cool way to ensure you play (almost) every school every other year and your divisional opponents annually.

Wow, it must have been a long day for me. I just figured out why my 15 team set up in football does not work, though it works perfectly in Basketball! If works for a 20 Team league in Football! Dammit, back to feeling pessimistic.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

The discussion was around cuse, b1g and TV sets. We have a bigger bump in this regard. Why the constant naming calling, you must be a dream at home and work.

Constant name calling? What are you, 7 years old?

You keep citing we have a bigger "bump" in NYC. Far be it from me to defend Syracuse, but what are you basing that off of? The three hundredth time upstater will cite the one time UConn women took Syracuse off the air)

Both schools have pull in NYC. I'd say UConn has more but to act like it's not even a debate is foolish.

 

[JayRU09]

Apples to apples so this guy chooses a game that is shown at different times in different years as opposed to a game shown at the exact same time.

Good job mate.

 

[Stray_Dog]

Good post. For the ACC, Wake might be pissed but no one cares what Wake thinks.

Well, if your dreaming, dream, but there is NO way the majority of the ACC schools accepts this. For recruiting every school would want to play in FL at least once per year, and some might have to accept a 2 out of 3 years. But he pods broken up so that you would play schools once every three years in FL.... I dont think this would fly - JMHO

 

[woomba]

I believe that this rule change is about to occur, no? Lets say for a moment, that it does pass. Each League can then select their two opponents for the Championship Game as they choose. I think 15 is a GREAT number for UConn fans. Here is why, taking the BIG 10 example.

EAST
1. UConn
2. Rutgers
3. Penn State
4. Maryland
5. Indiana

MIDEAST
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michagan State
4. Northwestern
5. Purdue

MIDWEST
1. Wisconsin
2. Minnesota
3. Iowa
4. Nebraska
5. Illinois

In Football, the eventual move is to a 9 game schedule. This 15 Team League sets up perfectly. You play your four (4) division opponents every year and you play a Home/Away series with the another divisions (5) opponents, rotating after every 2 seasons of play. That way, traditional rivalries can be maintained and you play everyone in your conference at least every third year.

In Basketball, I like it even better. You play both a Home and Away game within your Division (8 Games) and each opponent in the other Divisions once (10 Games). A perfectly balanced 18 game schedule where everyone plays eachother at least once.

Hypothetically in the ACC, it may work even better. The football powers get to play each other every year. Basketball wise, the East and Mid-Atlantic maintain their traditional rivalries. It is a great set up for everyone.

EAST
1. UConn
2. Boston College
3. Syracuse
4. Pitt
5. Wake Forest

Mid-Atlantic
1. Duke
2. North Carolina
3. NC State
4. Virginia
5. Virginia Tech

South
1. Miami
2. Florida State
3. Georgia Tech
4. Clemson
5. Louisville

By allowing Conferences to chose their Championship Game as they see fit in Football, a 15 team Conference is easily doable over a 14 team setup, in my opinion. If this shoe shall drop, I think it is our ticket in to greener pastures...

OK, back to WORK!

The devil's in the details - it's theoretically possible that they open up the eligibility criteria of who can be int he CCG while still mandating a 2 division setup. As long as a 2 division setup + round robin scheduling within the divisions is part of the rules it'll be a hard sell to take on a single additional school.

Agreed that depending on the ruling details that it can be mean very good news for those who want further realignment.

 

[upstater]

Constant name calling? What are you, 7 years old?

You keep citing we have a bigger "bump" in NYC. Far be it from me to defend Syracuse, but what are you basing that off of? The three hundredth time upstater will cite the one time UConn women took Syracuse off the air)

Both schools have pull in NYC. I'd say UConn has more but to act like it's not even a debate is foolish.

For the 1000th time, Conn. actually has a sliver of the NYC MA. Syracuse doesn't. What will it take to get that through your thick head?

 

[tzznandrew]

I believe that this rule change is about to occur, no? Lets say for a moment, that it does pass. Each League can then select their two opponents for the Championship Game as they choose. I think 15 is a GREAT number for UConn fans. Here is why, taking the BIG 10 example.

EAST
1. UConn
2. Rutgers
3. Penn State
4. Maryland
5. Indiana

MIDEAST
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michagan State
4. Northwestern
5. Purdue

MIDWEST
1. Wisconsin
2. Minnesota
3. Iowa
4. Nebraska
5. Illinois

In Football, the eventual move is to a 9 game schedule. This 15 Team League sets up perfectly. You play your four (4) division opponents every year and you play a Home/Away series with the another divisions (5) opponents, rotating after every 2 seasons of play. That way, traditional rivalries can be maintained and you play everyone in your conference at least every third year.

So East plays Mideast year one. Midwest plays whom, exactly?

That's the problem with 3 pods.

Most logical is 3 pods, and you play your own division, and two from each of the others, so that:

UConn's Year One Schedule:
@Rutgers
Penn State
@Maryland
Indiana
@Ohio State
Michigan
@Wisconsin
Minnesota

and, Year 2:
Rutgers
@Penn State
Maryland
@Indiana
Michigan State
@Northwestern
Iowa
@Nebraska

And rotate around for Year 3 (@Purdue/H-Ohio State, etc.).

 

[NEforceUConn]

Yes, the smart play would have been Cincy and L'ville to the Big 12 and UConn to the ACC. It would have gotten the Big 12 to 14 and given WVU two local schools. UConn would have been a good fit for the ACC.

However, that would have required a cooperative, logical discussion about what is in the best interests of all the parties involved. Granted, the Big 12 wants their autonomy and doesn't want to add schools that supposedly won't add equivalent value. OK, but don't they see what is going to happen with the P5 split? Do they really think that they can split away as the P5 and still have their own little fiefdoms? If they want the P5 split to really work the conferences would have to be willing to give up some of their autonomy and bargain TOGETHER to maximize the $. That would mean some cooperative conference realignment has to happen. IMO, to have the P5 breakaway AND have each the P5 remain autonomous (and at times predatory towards each other) is counter intuitive.

And for the Big 12's huge mistake the SEC, BIG, Pac,and ACC should slice them up. Let WVU's Chairman call the picking order. Schools in play are Big 12 and anyone else non P5. That realistically leaves UConn, BYU, Cincy, UCF, USF, and the 10 BIG 12 teams as candidates. Texas is deemed a ND hybred and must join ACC similar to ND with priviso that ACC needs 2 more schools. That means 10 teams needed (PAC 4, SEC 2, BIG 2, and ACC 2 plus TX hybrid) out of a possible 15 pool. So 4 teams are screwed.

CR chaos.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

For the 1000th time, Conn. actually has a sliver of the NYC MA. Syracuse doesn't. What will it take to get that through your thick head?

No .

What's your point? My overarching point has been that UConn and Syracuse have a close draw in NYC. Haven't heard anything but anecdotal evidence from you and everyone else.

 

[upstater]

No .

What's your point? My overarching point has been that UConn and Syracuse have a close draw in NYC. Haven't heard anything but anecdotal evidence from you and everyone else.

You started off by talking about how New York state was now compelled to put BTN on basic because Syracuse was the home school. That was false. UConn, on the other hand, has a claim to part of the NYC DMA, and that is quite meaningful for an entity like BTN. UConn drove up the prices of SNY in part of the NYC DMA in a way that Syracuse could not. You can't even debate this, it's just a fact that this happened with SNY.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

You started off by talking about how New York state was now compelled to put BTN on basic because Syracuse was the home school. That was false. UConn, on the other hand, has a claim to part of the NYC DMA, and that is quite meaningful for an entity like BTN. UConn drove up the prices of SNY in part of the NYC DMA in a way that Syracuse could not. You can't even debate this, it's just a fact that this happened with SNY.

I said I thought BTN had an agreement to be on basic when a conference team was in their state. While that ended up not being true I still think Cuse has a pull in NYS and is close to our pull in NYC.

If you're going to sit here and debate me that UConn and Syracuse don't have comparable pull in NYC be my guest. I really don't care one way or another because unless you're willing to stuff through NYC DMA ratings for both our games then it's all mute.

 

[SixRings]

?....then it's all mute.

Sorry to be a but it's moot not mute. Pet peeve. You can call me bad names now.

 

[Gfunk]

Yeah agreed on St Lou, husky rob, one doesn't need to go too far south of st louis to get into backwoods redneck country. I remember one of my several trips south on rte 44 south through Rolla and Springfield, that stretch was the only geography where I couldn't tune in a single rock station.... it was all country music.... and not a good big 10 fit.....

On another thought. it is surprising how many big 10 schools i saw tonight on USNWR academic list were ranked well below UConn. schools I had thought were really good. U Iowa, and U Nebraska come to mind..... but there were others there as well.... of course UMD and the College of New Jersey. We would be a good addition

I can't describe how often I hear this argument, there's a lot of missing relevance in it, esp when discussing big public institutions with emphasis on graduate research. If you look at US New's Graduate School Rankings, you suddenly see the research aim and prestige of much of the BIG & suddenly a school like UConn falls behind, though much upside for your state's flagship. It should be common knowledge at this point, that a universities' graduate school pedigree has more influence than their undergraduate programs.

 

[NickyNewark]

Let's compare apples to apples?

Pinstripe Bowl ratings
2011 Cuse 2.63 vs 2012 RU 2.1 (down 20%)
2013 Cuse 3.5 vs 2014 RU 3.2

Syracuse and Uconn generate more interest in NYC than RU....

Outside of hoop's Cuse is a rotting orange in a decaying DMA(88th) and losing more and more cache by the day....if they were offered the B1G(never happen) they'd have jumped.Head to head RU/Lv on the deuce in NYC demo and SU/WVU on the spin and Cuse was squashed locally...nationally im not sure but Cuse is history except in hoops while JB is there!!Afterward's??Who knows.

 

[Sportsman5]

I can't describe how often I hear this argument, there's a lot of missing relevance in it, esp when discussing big public institutions with emphasis on graduate research. If you look at US New's Graduate School Rankings, you suddenly see the research aim and prestige of much of the BIG & suddenly a school like UConn falls behind, though much upside for your state's flagship. It should be common knowledge at this point, that a universities' graduate school pedigree has more influence than their undergraduate programs.

The perception of a university for all except those very involved with academia is very strongly linked to undergraduate reputation. The only influential grad programs are typically law, medical, and business. Most of the tops in these categories already have extremely strong undergrad academic reputations.

 

[CL82]

Both schools have pull in NYC. I'd say UConn has more but to act like it's not even a debate is foolish.

Okay, how about not much of a debate? You might just want to Mich. St. how well we draw in NYC.

 

[SixRings]

Momentum means a lot for drawing fans to arenas that are not their home. UConn had really good momentum this year due to KO, Bazz and being out of the tourney last year. I'd even say that after this years NC it feels like UConn basketball is back where it was in the 90's with fans. Mostly because of pride and KO's likability is off the charts. Cuse feels like they are on the down swing of momentum right now. The FF 2 years ago has kept them going but UConn is drawing more. However, you cannot say that Cuse doesn't draw to NYC - which I don't think anyone here is saying. Cuse advertises in NYC for a reason. They have a NYC alum club in NYC and the upstaters (not Upstater) like a good excuse to travel down to the city a few times per year. But our fan base, right now, is becoming rabid.

 

[Stinger92860]

Constant name calling? What are you, 7 years old?

You keep citing we have a bigger "bump" in NYC. Far be it from me to defend Syracuse, but what are you basing that off of? The three hundredth time upstater will cite the one time UConn women took Syracuse off the air)

Both schools have pull in NYC. I'd say UConn has more but to act like it's not even a debate is foolish.

Back up your argument with facts. Taking a position without facts is foolish. I never said that Cuse had no momentum in NYC. I am simply saying we have more. That is why we have a shot at the B1G and not cuse. Time will tell.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Okay, how about not much of a debate? You might just want to Mich. St. how well we draw in NYC.

Lol, right because cuse has never sold out MSG? I was at Michigan state/ Iowa state when we took over MSG and it was awesome. I was also at Maryland, BC, and Indiana where we had less fans than all but BC ( of course) and we drew poorly.

Back up your argument with facts. Taking a position without facts is foolish. I never said that Cuse had no momentum in NYC. I am simply saying we have more. That is why we have a shot at the B1G and not cuse. Time will tell.

You realize you're the one making a declarative statement that UConn has more pull in NYC without substantiating it. I'm the one saying I think we have may more pull, it's likely close, but since we have no actual apples to apples data it's tough to say?

 

[Nostical]

That is why we have a shot at the B1G and not Syracuse.

Really Stinger? While you may feel we have a leg up on Syracuse in NYC, do you think that if we were safely ensconced in the ACC---like the Orange are---we would worry or pine over whether we'd ever have a shot at the B1G"? I don't think it would even get mentioned.

 

[upstater]

I said I thought BTN had an agreement to be on basic when a conference team was in their state. While that ended up not being true I still think Cuse has a pull in NYS and is close to our pull in NYC.

If you're going to sit here and debate me that UConn and Syracuse don't have comparable pull in NYC be my guest. I really don't care one way or another because unless you're willing to stuff through NYC DMA ratings for both our games then it's all mute.

It's not moot. Being in the DMA means something. It's a night and day difference. You act like being in the DMA means nothing. It's not moot at all.

I chose my name "upstater" because, though I am a Connecticut resident, I have somehow found myself living in upstate NY since 1996 through pure coincidence. I've lived in Albany, then Troy, then Rochester, and now Buffalo, in succession. Trust me, I have a really good understanding for how the state of NY feels about Syracuse outside of New York City's DMA. It's not pervasive, to say the least.

 

[upstater]

The perception of a university for all except those very involved with academia is very strongly linked to undergraduate reputation. The only influential grad programs are typically law, medical, and business. Most of the tops in these categories already have extremely strong undergrad academic reputations.

I'd say it's the exact opposite. the vast majority of schools with great reputations built those off grad programs. And there's a reason for that. It's because they typically attract the best faculty. I'm not even sure what you mean by "only influential grad programs" and how you came to that conclusion. But I can point out a lot of schools that are tilted heavily toward grad studies that have a huge reputation outside of academia. Look at US News' top 30. Half the schools emphasize grad programs. Carnegie-Mellon, UCLA, Chicago, half the Ivies, Michigan, UNC, Virginia, Cal, Johns Hopkins, MIT, etc.