Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn

[djct1999]

I will say this: while I don't think they've decided anything for certain, I do not believe for a second they're starting up a New York City office just to be welcoming to Rutgers. I believe they are starting this office with the hope of further expanding eastward.

By adding UConn and making both Rutgers and UConn relevant nationally, the Big 10 brand will gain far more than each individual school. Not only would I agree with what you just said, I will take it a step further. I contend that the Big 10 would never take Rutgers as a stand alone. UConn has always been part of the plan.

 

[SAMCRO]

Uconn can show increased monies for academic research, and it can increase its stadium size, but its folly to believe that in 2-3 years time that Uconn's football wins and losses over this 2-3 year period would be " completely meaningless " by then if this is when a P5 league expansion begins anew. If it wins the AAC it absolutely enhances its chances, imo... but 500 or so records after 3 years in the AAC could prove damaging. Thats why the Hathaway hire of Pasqualoni was so bad. Its timing could not have been worse, imo. Uconn will be evaluated thru the Pasqualoni football years too... so it is important for Diaco to get Uconn back to a bowl game... and quickly, imo

Winning certainly doesn't hurt, but it doesn't explain SU to the ACC. They were coming off of 6 consecutive season where they had 5, 3, 2, 2, 4, and 1 wins against FBS opponents, yet were ACC worthy. Louisville was trending in a great direction with a great hire in Strong and Bridgewater transferring was HUGE for them, but they too were coming off 5 consecutive seasons where they had 6, 6, 3, 4, and 5 wins against FBS opponents. Timing was not UConn's friend this go-round, but there was A LOT more to UL's selection than their current hot streak in FB and UConn in the middle of an awful coaching hire. There was (still is) a power struggle in the ACC, and in the long run...10 years +/- we should all reconvene over a beer(s) to rehash these discussions and see whose "opinionated facts" were correct. I don't think bstimpy will show up.

 

[Fishy]

Football results are meaningless? I would strongly disagree with that. It leads to increased fan support and the perception of the program being better. Do you know why florida state and Clemson wanted Louisville instead of UConn? because they had won more football games over the last few years with teddy bridewater and Charlie strong.

Louisville was 4-8, 7-6 and 7-6 (18-20) in the three seasons before they were invited to the ACC. UConn was 8-5, 8-5 and 5-7 (21-17) in their three seasons. UConn was 5-6 and had just beaten Louisville at Louisville two days before Louisville was invited.

 

[Sportsman5]

Louisville was 4-8, 7-6 and 7-6 (18-20) in the three seasons before they were invited to the ACC. UConn was 8-5, 8-5 and 5-7 (21-17) in their three seasons. UConn was 5-6 and had just beaten Louisville at Louisville two days before Louisville was invited.

My response in post #22 of the thread explains my reasoning.

summary and conclusions of that post:
lousiville was 10-2 on the date that they were invited + strong and Bridgewater coming back the next year = lots of momentum going forward. very high $ and long term contract for Strong in works = perceived (key here) stability and long term success for the Louisville football program. Immediate on field success and the perception of that success continuing was a major factor. Again, perception is everything.

 

[Fishy]

The ACC had no idea whether Strong would return or not - but I'm sure they had to suspect that neither would see a second of ACC football. (And they won't.)

They invited UL because UL was better at that moment in time.

 

[kyleslamb]

By adding UConn and making both Rutgers and UConn relevant nationally, the Big 10 brand will gain far more than each individual school. Not only would I agree with what you just said, I will take it a step further. I contend that the Big 10 would never take Rutgers as a stand alone. UConn has always been part of the plan.

That's certainly possible. My stance is that UConn has been one of a handful of teams on the radar all along, but I still believe they haven't made a decision. I do think they wanted to get an idea of what would happen with FOX and their bundling of the network, and how that might impact the NYC negotiations before making their final call. A better than expected result with NYC placement may cause them to aggressively go after other portions of the country. But yeah, certainly bundling Connecticut (to the East) and Rutgers (to the West) of the market would strengthen it much more. UConn pulling a 1-million household Hartford DMA also doesn't hurt.

I've been saying for two years I think UConn-Virginia is the targeted pair and although stimpy denies it, Virginia did show interest in discussions with the Big Ten intermediaries. That's not to say they're looking to leave the ACC, but contrary to what ACC partisans are saying, they didn't flat reject the notion.

 

[Stinger92860]

Kyleslamb,

The Hartford DMA does not include Fairfield county CT which is part of the NYC DMA. This an important fact which most people do not understand. When you add in Fairfield County, the DMA rank For CT is 20/21. Which other available DMA can deliver that many sets?

I would also add that the median household include in Fairfield County is well above the national average.

 

[Fishy]

It would not shock me if the Big Ten thought about going to 16 with UConn and Virginia.

The problem is that Virginia is now tied to the ACC for the next 13 or 14 years and there's really no other 16th team out there. (And I don't believe for a second that the Big Ten is going to 15 teams.)

It's kinda part of the straight flush of disaster that UConn has drawn from the start on realignment.

 

[Adios]

Louisville was in C-USA for quite a while.

 

[kyleslamb]

Kyleslamb,

The Hartford DMA does not include Fairfield county CT which is part of the NYC DMA. This an important fact which most people do not understand. When you add in Fairfield County, the DMA rank For CT is 20/21. Which other available DMA can deliver that many sets?

I would also add that the median household include in Fairfield County is well above the national average.

Yeah I was indeed aware of that. I think Fairfield County alone is important because of the influence as well as having additional presence within the city. But the Hartford DMA would be a nice addition.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The ACC had no idea whether Strong would return or not - but I'm sure they had to suspect that neither would see a second of ACC football. (And they won't.)

They invited UL because UL was better at that moment in time.

Precisely my problem with the ACC in general and Swofford in particular. What's the ACC's vision of itself and how well do their additions reflect that vision? Louisville in particular was more a perverse circle jerk than an exercise in conference building.

 

[Ldandy]

Winning certainly doesn't hurt, but it doesn't explain SU to the ACC. They were coming off of 6 consecutive season where they had 5, 3, 2, 2, 4, and 1 wins against FBS opponents, yet were ACC worthy. Louisville was trending in a great direction with a great hire in Strong and Bridgewater transferring was HUGE for them, but they too were coming off 5 consecutive seasons where they had 6, 6, 3, 4, and 5 wins against FBS opponents. Timing was not UConn's friend this go-round, but there was A LOT more to UL's selection than their current hot streak in FB and UConn in the middle of an awful coaching hire. There was (still is) a power struggle in the ACC, and in the long run...10 years +/- we should all reconvene over a beer(s) to rehash these discussions and see whose "opinionated facts" were correct. I don't think bstimpy will show up.

Why not.? Do you think he will be able to discern fact from fantasy then? Dude straight up believes what he types, or is a Buckanieer level troll. Either way he'll never admit that replacing the flag ship school of the state of MD and founding conference member, with The Ville was nothing but a desperation move made by a conference teetering on the edge of collapse. I'll believe that it wasn't the same time I start believing anyone in Big 12 country wanted WVU in their conference.

 

[upstater]

I really think that in a short period (within 10 years) the P5 will become a corporation. It's not because of college sports necessarily but because the new business models for Higher Education.

 

[CL82]

Why not.? Do you think he will be able to discern fact from fantasy then? Dude straight up believes what he types, or is a Buckanieer level troll. Either way he'll never admit that replacing the flag ship school of the state of MD and founding conference member, with The Ville was nothing but a desperation move made by a conference teetering on the edge of collapse. I'll believe that it wasn't the same time I start believing anyone in Big 12 country wanted WVU in their conference.

I agree with you, but at the end of the day their desperation move, coupled with their GOR, ended up stabilizing the conference. I give Swofford credit for that. The cost is the ACC culture was dramatically altered but given the circumstances of MDs departure and Florida's posturing, that was probably unavoidable.

 

[Stray_Dog]

Football results are meaningless? I would strongly disagree with that. It leads to increased fan support and the perception of the program being better. Do you know why florida state and Clemson wanted Louisville instead of UConn? because they had won more football games over the last few years with teddy bridewater and Charlie strong. Did that make a lot of sense? NO. But it is the truth. There's nothing else lousiville has over UConn except recent football wins. If you can give undisputed and relevant reasons why Louisville had Florida State and Clemson support and UConn didn't, than I would love to hear it.

ummm we have had this discussion upteen times or more,
So please keep in mind all the variables that were in play; so don't forget, BC and others did NOT want us... and for some of them it had nothing to do with football. UoL got in because FSU and Clemson wanted better football, they needed UoL for Swofford and Company feared these schools would bolt to the Big12. Worse, still, they got ND and the now ACC is shaping up to have the same inner turmoil as the Old Big EAST. Think about it this way, the ACC wants to keep certain members happy sounds familiar to the Old Big East. The Big East had to keep the basketball schools happy, the ACC has to keep the football schools happy. But this implies that someone will always be unhappy. IF and it is a big IF but IF schools remain unhappy or view their situation as one-sided then schools will continue to shift to other more stable conferences. The Big12 has its share of instability, again for the same reason, Texas and OU need to be kept happy...and too bad for everyone else.

 

[noeynox]

It would not shock me if the Big Ten thought about going to 16 with UConn and Virginia.

The problem is that Virginia is now tied to the ACC for the next 13 or 14 years and there's really no other 16th team out there. (And I don't believe for a second that the Big Ten is going to 15 teams.)

It's kinda part of the straight flush of disaster that UConn has drawn from the start on realignment.

Can we survive the current predicament for the next 13/14 years, with so little TV revenue? UConn will have to try and do something dramatic, and I can't even imagine what it would be.

 

[CL82]

Can we survive the current predicament for the next 13/14 years, with so little TV revenue? UConn will have to try and do something dramatic, and I can't even imagine what it would be.

I don't think so. We are on the clock and have 5 years or so to reach income parity. Pretty scary, when you stop to think about it.

 

[Stray_Dog]

I don't think so. We are on the clock and have 5 years or so to reach income parity. Pretty scary, when you stop to think about it.

I think your statement should read we have at most five years

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Delany has stated several times over the last 2 years that the B1G wants to be bi-regional/multiregional. The B1G will not get there with 2 schools on the East Coast, 11 schools in the Midwest and 1 school (Penn State) on the border between the two. The B1G will have to expand again if it wants to be a true multiregional conference with a strong athletic and academic brand.

UConn is the top sports brand in New York and New England as seen by this winter and spring. Basketball in Storrs is clearly not going anywhere. Hockey is on its way. Football should regain its status as a competitive team under Diaco (I am on the fence if the Rent should be added now as an enticement or later once the check is in the mail, either way, the B1G knows the Rent can be expanded). Herbst clearly has UConn moving towards AAU status in metrics if not name. Combined, UConn would fit well with the B1G and give it a solid eastern block while doing a number on the ACC.

But, who to pair UConn with is an issue with the B1G. Missouri is the only apparent possibility; but, not sure if they would leave the SEC now. I believe that the B1G will only move to take UConn in the near future (1-2 years) only if they believe that the ACC is going to grab UConn first. The B1G’s goal is to be truly multiregional with a target of 20 members and is waiting to see who flinches first – Texas or UNC/UVA. If the B1G can lure Texas (in a dual with the SEC and PAC), the B1G will go Southwest and grab Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma. That gives them 17 teams with UConn taking up one of the last 3 slots. If UVA and/or UNC flinches first, the B1G goes after UVA, UNC, Georgia Tech, and Florida State with UConn taking on one the last 2 slots.

 

[Dooley]

UCONN might not need a partner if this whole conference deregulation thing passes. The B1G could secure UCONN now for no cost and create 3 5-team pods for football and still have a CG. By the time the ACC GOR expires, or UVA or UNC is convinced to bolt, UCONN will have had several years to bolster the football program and get on level financial footing (endowment, stadium expansion, etc).

I wouldn't be shocked to see UCONN added alone in the next 2-4 years. It would depend on deregulation of conferences and other factors, but it would make more sense to add UCONN soon than wait. The cost is inexpensive ( we could even serve the full 27 mo waiting period if need be) but the added time to grow the brand within the B 1G would be priceless. The B1G wants it's members to succeed and not die on a vine. UCONN in the B1G would send this area into a frenzy.

 

[huskyrob1]

Agree 3 schools doesn't mean you own the NE. Does 4?

Be careful when agreeing with Spackler, remember that he is saying "the northeast corridor", NOT New England. UCONN in the B1G WOULD dominate the collegiate ratings in New England, if you include basketball, and even football would come along eventually. Remember also that UCONN's women's team is, right now, one of the very few women's teams in college basketball that presently make money (right now only 2 I think) and all of the women's basketball teams in the B1G presently lose money, and a lot of it. UCONN's women's team in the B1G would be a huge draw (as would the men's team) and almost immediately stop a lot of the bleeding for teams in the B1G.

 

[mushroomgod]

UCONN might not need a partner if this whole conference deregulation thing passes. The B1G could secure UCONN now for no cost and create 3 5-team pods for football and still have a CG. By the time the ACC GOR expires, or UVA or UNC is convinced to bolt, UCONN will have had several years to bolster the football program and get on level financial footing (endowment, stadium expansion, etc).

I wouldn't be shocked to see UCONN added alone in the next 2-4 years. It would depend on deregulation of conferences and other factors, but it would make more sense to add UCONN soon than wait. The cost is inexpensive ( we could even serve the full 27 mo waiting period if need be) but the added time to grow the brand within the B 1G would be priceless. The B1G wants it's members to succeed and not die on a vine. UCONN in the B1G would send this area into a frenzy.[/quote

I agree with this conceptually, but I think it's a practical impossibility for a couple of reasons. First, the typical traditional Big 10 fan isn't in favor of expansion generally, let alone an expansion that results in a 15 member league. That puts Delany is a "what the hell are you doing?" defensive mode because he wouldn't be able to explain who #16 was going to be. Also, they may not feel 1-2 years is enough time to "digest" RU and MD before more change comes. I think the Big 10 authorities would be concerned about getting too far ahead of the fans and politicians.......Secondly, taking U CONN now might limit what the Big 10 could do later, because no one knows whether VA/VT/UNC/GT or UT/OK/KU will be options down the road. I realize that's not an issue if you ultimately go to 18, but in closely reading the comments of the Mich. and IU ADs I saw acceptance of the idea of going to 16, but not 18.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I will say this: while I don't think they've decided anything for certain, I do not believe for a second they're starting up a New York City office just to be welcoming to Rutgers. I believe they are starting this office with the hope of further expanding eastward.

The B1G needs to decide what it is and what it isn't. I believe that they have been rebuffed in any attempt to move south of DC in the east. So there are two choices, it becomes the "Big North" owning the markets north of the Mason-Dixon line or it becomes the "Big Midwest", and spreads south from Nebraska through KS, OK and perhaps into TX. Those are the only avenues available to it. The current challenge is that they don't have two teams to go to 16 for either strategy. In theory they could split the baby and add UConn and Kansas, but there is the GOR to consider. I think they are biding their time. If they decide on the "Big North" strategy, I think they add UConn as 15 even without a partner.

By the way, the ACC could really damage the Big XII further (than it did by taking UL and before that, Pitt) by adding UConn. It shuts the door on the B1G options and forces them to go after the Big XII schools.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It would not shock me if the Big Ten thought about going to 16 with UConn and Virginia.

The problem is that Virginia is now tied to the ACC for the next 13 or 14 years and there's really no other 16th team out there. (And I don't believe for a second that the Big Ten is going to 15 teams.)

It's kinda part of the straight flush of disaster that UConn has drawn from the start on realignment.

Missouri is the only other #16 candidate available. The SEC does not have a GOR.

I do think the Big 10 would add just 1 if it wanted to (it sat at 11 for years), but if it wanted 2, it would grab Missouri and UConn. St. Louis is an attractive market.

I wish the SEC would start talking about a GOR just to shake the tree a little and see whether the Big 10 would make a move. The SEC would replace Missouri with Cincinnati and not bat an eyelash. I think the northern SEC schools would even like to be in Ohio, because they are confident they can kick the Big 10's butt in their own backyard when it comes to recruiting.

All that matters is the dollars though, and I don't see how UConn or Missouri generate an extra $45MM for the Big 10.

 

[businesslawyer]

Just two thoughts to add.

1. While I don't know that UConn and Mizzou produce enough revenue to prevent their addition from being dilutive to the Big Ten, I think it is likely Mizzou would leave the SEC for the Big Ten in a nanosecond. Not because the league is better, and maybe not even for the immediate financial gain, but because MIssouri as an institution wants to view itself as being comparable to its neighbors to the North, like Illinois, and not to the South, like Arkansas.

2. Can we please never again hear the crazy notion that we're not in the ACC because we didn't want to beat out LV for that slot because we already know the invite to the Big Ten is coming. I think it is absolutely clear that the UConn administration wanted the ACC invite and in fact had heard from sources they mistakenly believed that it was coming. Might it be a good thing we're not already locked in the ACC -- that is possible (I don't believe it but it's possible), but reinventing history is just dumb.