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The funny thing about this is that when Notre Dame joined the ACC, the Penn State boards were saying "why not us", "lucky devils", and "I'm jealous". About half of the Penn State fan base would love to get into the ACC. I guess the grass is somehow greener on the other side. I also don't know too many happy campers in the Maryland fan base about now. I know several who are unhappy. Most of the Syracuse folks I talk to are very happy. The only ones that are not are the basketball fans that think they will miss Georgetown. I just suggest that they try to get Georgetown on the schedule.


From what I heard in the office (a lot of PUS alums), the talk of Penn State going to the ACC was an act of revenge against both the B1G and the NCAA over how Penn State as a whole was treated over the Sandusky crimes. Once it calmed down, everyone agreed that Penn State would not give-up access to the research dollars that the B1G provides for a more ‘favorable’ athletic environment in the ACC.
 

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I actually think Kansas and Mizzou would both be of value to the B1G. I am surprised that inclusion of these two universities into the B1G has never happened.
Here is an article from - 1993! - that discusses the possibility of these two universities joining the B1G. Of note, Rutgers is mentioned as well.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ommissioner-jim-delany-big-southwest-missouri

It's a little mysterious why this didn't happen. Ohio State's Gee has expressed regrets that it didn't. Presumably the B1G could only take Missouri if it went to 14 and needed Kansas to go along, and maybe Kansas State influence or some other factor inhibited the move. The B1G's huge money advantage is a relatively recent development. I have to think a Kansas-Missouri tandem move was considered at the time Missouri moved to the SEC. Delany was already looking east then and maybe there was concern about being overweight in the midwest and locked in brand-wise as a midwestern regional conference. Now that Kansas has signed the GoR it's hard to believe a move is imminent. But perhaps UConn is a strong enough partner for Missouri, now that Rutgers and Maryland are in, to make it favorable. The B1G is going to wait for feedback from its TV bidders. I could see UConn-Missouri being the expansion option. If as rumored the SEC is considering a GoR, it will have to happen in the next year.

I wonder how much of the B1G's moves are motivated by a desire to become a national, not a regional, conference. I wonder if getting spurned by Notre Dame over their regional reputation has lit a fire under the idea of east coast expansion.
 
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I down the road when all of the GoR’s expire and the P5 becomes the P4, I do believe that the ACC is in stronger shape that the XII to be the 4th P4 conference. If the ACC is the conference to implode, I believe that in 20 years UVA will definitely go to the B1G while UNC is about 50/50 between the B1G and the SEC.

If the ACC were to implode, yes Virginia would consider the Big Ten as an option. There are some in the UVA fan base that like the idea of the SEC, but we'd have to flush 6 or 7 sports to go to the SEC. I see the ACC developing into a power conference particularly with the country's demographic growing right in the heart of the ACC footprint and direct access to all of the eastern markets from Bangor, Maine to Key West, FL. I'm not worried about the ACC. I think that the Big XII is now the nervous conference.
 
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As a PSU alum (grad school) I hate the B1G. That being said, I would say there is a very tiny minority that would prefer the ACC. Up until the scandal, the talk among fans was about PSU luring Maryland and Virginia to the B1G. Paterno was long rumored to have had Maryland in his "back pocket" back when he was proposing PSU and Miami to the BE in the late 1980s. He said Maryland would come along.

I think a fair amount of PSU fans would prefer being in another conference, but that other conference does not exist. With Rutgers and MD, PSU will fit better geographically in the B1G, but many of the PSU fans I know have always felt that they did not belong in the B1G. For different reasons, most PSU fans feel they would not fit in the ACC. They likely would have been a bad fit in the old Big East. Really, PSU has been on an island for years with respect to a conference, but the B1G (although not perfect) has more in common with PSU than any other conference.
 
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If the ACC were to implode, yes Virginia would consider the Big Ten as an option. There are some in the UVA fan base that like the idea of the SEC, but we'd have to flush 6 or 7 sports to go to the SEC. I see the ACC developing into a power conference particularly with the country's demographic growing right in the heart of the ACC footprint and direct access to all of the eastern markets from Bangor, Maine to Key West, FL. I'm not worried about the ACC. I think that the Big XII is now the nervous conference.

I agree with you. I think the ACC is stable. What about our UConn hosts? I have posted in favor of their inclusion in the B1G but I certainly believe they would be a great fit for the ACC as well.
Do you see a time that BC et al. will step aside in favor of adding UConn to the ACC?
 
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It's a little mysterious why this didn't happen. Ohio State's Gee has expressed regrets that it didn't. Presumably the B1G could only take Missouri if it went to 14 and needed Kansas to go along, and maybe Kansas State influence or some other factor inhibited the move. The B1G's huge money advantage is a relatively recent development. I have to think a Kansas-Missouri tandem move was considered at the time Missouri moved to the SEC. Delany was already looking east then and maybe there was concern about being overweight in the midwest and locked in brand-wise as a midwestern regional conference. Now that Kansas has signed the GoR it's hard to believe a move is imminent. But perhaps UConn is a strong enough partner for Missouri, now that Rutgers and Maryland are in, to make it favorable. The B1G is going to wait for feedback from its TV bidders. I could see UConn-Missouri being the expansion option. If as rumored the SEC is considering a GoR, it will have to happen in the next year.

I wonder how much of the B1G's moves are motivated by a desire to become a national, not a regional, conference. I wonder if getting spurned by Notre Dame over their regional reputation has lit a fire under the idea of east coast expansion.


The fact that if the B1G wants to get to 16 that UConn and Missouri would make the most sense means that it will not happen.

Missouri adds an AAU school in a contiguous state with a decent football and basketball brand that adds Kansas City to the B1G’s footprint and does not have a GoR in place while also making Nebraska happy.

UConn adds a marquee Basketball brand in an affluent market that when tied to Rutgers, Penn State and other B1G Alumni could claim NYC for the B1G that would drive the ACC and ND nuts.

The big question for me who will the SEC pick-up to get back to 14 schools so that they won’t fight over Missouri’s departure. No one in the American says yes right now (Cincy would be the best bet but they are in the Midwest, Houston is an option farther down the road, Tulane is not going back, Memphis makes most SEC schools looks AAUish). I would say either West Virginia (could challenge the GoR, which I think the XII and others would want to avoid) or Louisville (especially if they have not signed the ACC GoR yet, which is the rumor and while Kentucky would raise a fuss, Kentucky is not Florida, i.e. why Florida State will never been in the SEC).
 
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I wonder how much of the B1G's moves are motivated by a desire to become a national, not a regional, conference. I wonder if getting spurned by Notre Dame over their regional reputation has lit a fire under the idea of east coast expansion.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/65736/jim-delany-discusses-addition-of-maryland

Why did the Big Ten expand?

The Big Ten explored 14- and 16-team models during its last expansion study but decided to add only Nebraska and monitor the landscape. Well, the landscape kept changing with more realignment. The Big Ten created a collaboration with the Pac-12 as an alternative to expansion, but when the Pac-12 decided this summer it couldn't go through with it, Delany and the Big Ten presidents put expansion back on the front burner.

With so much realignment elsewhere, Delany said the league had to question its vulnerability.

"It's pretty obvious to us that the paradigm has shifted," Delany said. "It's not your father's Big Ten. It's probably not your father's ACC. The paradigm shift is that other conferences had [expanded], we had chosen not to, and we explored the collaboration [with the Pac-12]. It couldn't be executed. The Pac-12 couldn't do what they thought they could do. ...

"We said, how do we participate in the new paradigm? Our answer was let's look at contiguous states first, let's look at AAU members first, and let's figure out if there is a way to continue to bridge from Penn State into the Mid-Atlantic. Is there a way to collaborate with like institutions, to grow our footprint, to compete and to position ourselves for the future? We determined this is the best way to accomplish those ends." ...

According to Delany, there wasn't one institutional move that triggered the Big Ten's decision to expansion.

"It's multiple institutions in multiple parts of the country moving into multiple regions," he said. "It really wasn't Notre Dame [joining the ACC in all sports but football]. It was pretty clear to me that Notre Dame for a long time wanted to maintain its independence, and as that's a matter of fact, I knew there wasn’t a possibility for us to add Notre Dame."
 
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I think a fair amount of PSU fans would prefer being in another conference, but that other conference does not exist. With Rutgers and MD, PSU will fit better geographically in the B1G, but many of the PSU fans I know have always felt that they did not belong in the B1G. For different reasons, most PSU fans feel they would not fit in the ACC. They likely would have been a bad fit in the old Big East. Really, PSU has been on an island for years with respect to a conference, but the B1G (although not perfect) has more in common with PSU than any other conference.

PSU does fir into the B1G. The problem with the B1G is that Michigan and Ohio St didn't want PSU, and the treatment from the league office and the referees has been beyond absurd over the years. Quick Q: when is the last time that a team was penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct for fans cheering too loud? (and on 4th down late in the 4th Q of a tight game no less)?
 
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From what I heard in the office (a lot of PUS alums), the talk of Penn State going to the ACC was an act of revenge against both the B1G and the NCAA over how Penn State as a whole was treated over the Sandusky crimes. Once it calmed down, everyone agreed that Penn State would not give-up access to the research dollars that the B1G provides for a more ‘favorable’ athletic environment in the ACC.

PSU's board developed the roadmap for its own punishments--the NCAA and B1G had little to do with it. That being said, the feathers were ruffled when Michigan St. opened the issue of expelling PSU from the conference.
 
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It's a little mysterious why this didn't happen. Ohio State's Gee has expressed regrets that it didn't. Presumably the B1G could only take Missouri if it went to 14 and needed Kansas to go along, and maybe Kansas State influence or some other factor inhibited the move. The B1G's huge money advantage is a relatively recent development. I have to think a Kansas-Missouri tandem move was considered at the time Missouri moved to the SEC. Delany was already looking east then and maybe there was concern about being overweight in the midwest and locked in brand-wise as a midwestern regional conference. Now that Kansas has signed the GoR it's hard to believe a move is imminent. But perhaps UConn is a strong enough partner for Missouri, now that Rutgers and Maryland are in, to make it favorable. The B1G is going to wait for feedback from its TV bidders. I could see UConn-Missouri being the expansion option. If as rumored the SEC is considering a GoR, it will have to happen in the next year.

I wonder how much of the B1G's moves are motivated by a desire to become a national, not a regional, conference. I wonder if getting spurned by Notre Dame over their regional reputation has lit a fire under the idea of east coast expansion.

Missouri is now in a position of negotiating strength. The B1G has to grovel to add Missouri now when it could have had them for a pittance. The difference is this: look at Rutgers' deal, they won't be fully vested for almost a decade. They will pay-into the B1G for a long time. Missouri, since it's in the SEC, will rightly demand immediate full membership. And they have every reason to do so, since a Rutgers type deal would see them take huge losses monetarily. The moment they announce intentions to leave the SEC, the SEC stops paying them. Assume that means 2 years. Now add $15-20m in exit fees. Then subtract the SEC max payout of $30m from the money the B1G will dole out to Mizzou on average over the first 7 years, and you are talking about a huge loss. By my estimate, Missouri would be out $150 million if it decides to move from the SEC to the B1G, UNLESS the B1G came grovelling and gave it a sweetheart deal to move.
 

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Missouri is now in a position of negotiating strength. The B1G has to grovel to add Missouri now when it could have had them for a pittance. The difference is this: look at Rutgers' deal, they won't be fully vested for almost a decade. They will pay-into the B1G for a long time. Missouri, since it's in the SEC, will rightly demand immediate full membership. And they have every reason to do so, since a Rutgers type deal would see them take huge losses monetarily. The moment they announce intentions to leave the SEC, the SEC stops paying them. Assume that means 2 years. Now add $15-20m in exit fees. Then subtract the SEC max payout of $30m from the money the B1G will dole out to Mizzou on average over the first 7 years, and you are talking about a huge loss. By my estimate, Missouri would be out $150 million if it decides to move from the SEC to the B1G, UNLESS the B1G came grovelling and gave it a sweetheart deal to move.
I know the SEC has no GOR, but I also thought they had no exit fee as well?
 

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http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/65736/jim-delany-discusses-addition-of-maryland

According to Delany, there wasn't one institutional move that triggered the Big Ten's decision to expansion.

"It's multiple institutions in multiple parts of the country moving into multiple regions," he said. "It really wasn't Notre Dame [joining the ACC in all sports but football]. It was pretty clear to me that Notre Dame for a long time wanted to maintain its independence, and as that's a matter of fact, I knew there wasn’t a possibility for us to add Notre Dame."

Yes. I think the B1G know Notre Dame would always take football independence and the ACC, if that was available, ahead of the B1G; and they're OK with that, they don't want to lose their close-knit culture of equality and fraternity.

But the adamant view of Notre Dame alums and administrators that the B1G is a regional conference, Notre Dame is a national or international university, and therefore the two are not a fit, had to bring home to the B1G that there is a perception of them as a somewhat parochial institution.

With realignment hinging on national television revenue and national brands, I think changing that perception became a high priority.

I think football recruiting also brought it home. The B1G hasn't recruited well out of region.

Since the northeast lacked a strong conference loyalty, is a major population and media center, it made sense to try to expand here. As an eastern and midwestern conference, the B1G has a greater claim to national reach. I'm sure they'll be cultivating New York media institutions for publicity.
 
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I agree with you. I think the ACC is stable. What about our UConn hosts? I have posted in favor of their inclusion in the B1G but I certainly believe they would be a great fit for the ACC as well.
Do you see a time that BC et al. will step aside in favor of adding UConn to the ACC?


Whats more likely?

BC and SU smile as UConn is invited to the ACC or Mizzu swallows its pride and accepts and invite from the B1G?

Both would require a deep breath and some meditation by a number of people.

I really believe if the B1G expands(50/50 at best) UConn is one of the top candidates. That is because at 16 teams you want 4 in the East. (PSU, RU, UMd and UConn) If you only have 3 truly Eastern teams it forces an older member to be included in a Pod with the new members. The B1G has proved it wants to keep UM and tOSU in the same grouping. That means either MSU, IU or Purdue would be pushed into the eastern Pod. That doesn't fit.

One Eastern and one Western allows the conference to be naturally divided. Mizzu (no GOR) and UofK(GOR and lil bro issue) are simple fits in the puzzle.
 
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Yes. I think the B1G know Notre Dame would always take football independence and the ACC, if that was available, ahead of the B1G; and they're OK with that, they don't want to lose their close-knit culture of equality and fraternity.

But the adamant view of Notre Dame alums and administrators that the B1G is a regional conference, Notre Dame is a national or international university, and therefore the two are not a fit, had to bring home to the B1G that there is a perception of them as a somewhat parochial institution.

With realignment hinging on national television revenue and national brands, I think changing that perception became a high priority.

I think football recruiting also brought it home. The B1G hasn't recruited well out of region.

Since the northeast lacked a strong conference loyalty, is a major population and media center, it made sense to try to expand here. As an eastern and midwestern conference, the B1G has a greater claim to national reach. I'm sure they'll be cultivating New York media institutions for publicity.

ND an international university but Michigan a regional one? I'll have to think about that.
 
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I agree with you. I think the ACC is stable. What about our UConn hosts? I have posted in favor of their inclusion in the B1G but I certainly believe they would be a great fit for the ACC as well.
Do you see a time that BC et al. will step aside in favor of adding UConn to the ACC?
I do think that UConn would be a great addition to the ACC, and I've posted that here before. I don't understand Boston College's objection. They think UConn is too close geographically. But, the 4 North Carolina Schools and 2 Virginia Schools think this is a ridiculous argument. We all coexist in quite cozy confines with each other. It is fun to have rivals close by. I think the Boston College position was largely from Gene DeFilippo. He has since retired, so they could change their position.

I don't know what Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville will think. I would hope they would support UConn. Their opinion is going to matter. UConn has earned a spot in a Power Conference in my opinion. Whether it is ACC or Big Ten will be decided by who offers first.
 
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I do think that UConn would be a great addition to the ACC, and I've posted that here before. I don't understand Boston College's objection. They think UConn is too close geographically. But, the 4 North Carolina Schools and 2 Virginia Schools think this is a ridiculous argument. We all coexist in quite cozy confines with each other. It is fun to have rivals close by. I think the Boston College position was largely from Gene DeFilippo. He has since retired, so they could change their position.

I don't know what Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville will think. I would hope they would support UConn. Their opinion is going to matter. UConn has earned a spot in a Power Conference in my opinion. Whether it is ACC or Big Ten will be decided by who offers first.

Gene DeFillippo blocked UConn when Pitt and Cuse were added. He stepped down shortly thereafter in the fallout of his boasting. I happen to believe he was a smart devil who fell on his sword because the ACC was moving in 2011 to add ND and UConn pretty quickly until Gene D. claimed that ESPN was orchestrating it all, and that botched the move. In late 2012, the new AD at BC also blocked Uconn, according to newspaper articles that described the presidents and ADs at UNC, Duke and Virginia as incredulous.
 

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I do think that UConn would be a great addition to the ACC, and I've posted that here before. I don't understand Boston College's objection. They think UConn is too close geographically. But, the 4 North Carolina Schools and 2 Virginia Schools think this is a ridiculous argument. We all coexist in quite cozy confines with each other. It is fun to have rivals close by. I think the Boston College position was largely from Gene DeFilippo. He has since retired, so they could change their position.

I don't know what Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville will think. I would hope they would support UConn. Their opinion is going to matter. UConn has earned a spot in a Power Conference in my opinion. Whether it is ACC or Big Ten will be decided by who offers first.
I still think BC and Cuse will block UConn -- just ludicrous, but the same as UConn blocking UMass from the AAC if it ever came down to it.

I know we have support of VA and NC schools.
 
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I think football recruiting also brought it home. The B1G hasn't recruited well out of region.

When you look at the recruiting of PSU, Ohio State and Michigan, these 3 schools had top classes year after year, sent so many players to he NFL, as many as top programs elsewhere, brought a lot of kids from down south up north, and yet they could never win on the big stages. Why? Because the coaching was subpar: Paterno was 10 years too old, Cooper fumbled around, Carr couldn't win the one game that mattered, Rodriugez was a disaster. Etc. Tressel is the only one that changed some of the perception.

I'd say the B1G had a coaching problem, not a talent problem.
 

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I'm just speculating about motivations. But if it's coaching, you have to ask, why did the best coaches want to coach in the south?

Re recruiting, check out a recent set of Rivals recruiting rankings: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all After Ohio State (2), Michigan (5), and Nebraska (17), you have to go all the way to #38 (Indiana) to find a B1G school. (Maryland was 33.) These are the national brands in the B1G. The conference itself doesn't seem to have much pull, the other conference members were getting outrecruited by the Big East.

Checkout Michigan's class: almost all from B1G territory: http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/michigan-29. Ohio State is by far the best national recruiter.
 
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PSU does fir into the B1G. The problem with the B1G is that Michigan and Ohio St didn't want PSU, and the treatment from the league office and the referees has been beyond absurd over the years. Quick Q: when is the last time that a team was penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct for fans cheering too loud? (and on 4th down late in the 4th Q of a tight game no less)?

PSU's board developed the roadmap for its own punishments--the NCAA and B1G had little to do with it. That being said, the feathers were ruffled when Michigan St. opened the issue of expelling PSU from the conference.

From what I heard in the office (a lot of PUS alums), the talk of Penn State going to the ACC was an act of revenge against both the B1G and the NCAA over how Penn State as a whole was treated over the Sandusky crimes. Once it calmed down, everyone agreed that Penn State would not give-up access to the research dollars that the B1G provides for a more ‘favorable’ athletic environment in the ACC.


Penn State was a fantastic add to the B1G. I understand my alma mater as an institution did not want their inclusion. However, this Ohio State guy, was excited about their joining the B1G. I am glad they remain a part of the conference and think they are a great fit given their status as a state flagship public research university. The B1G collectively should have been more welcoming and supportive of Penn State all these years.
 
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I'm just speculating about motivations. But if it's coaching, you have to ask, why did the best coaches want to coach in the south?

Re recruiting, check out a recent set of Rivals recruiting rankings: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all After Ohio State (2), Michigan (5), and Nebraska (17), you have to go all the way to #38 (Indiana) to find a B1G school. (Maryland was 33.) These are the national brands in the B1G. The conference itself doesn't seem to have much pull, the other conference members were getting outrecruited by the Big East.

Checkout Michigan's class: almost all from B1G territory: http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2013/michigan-29. Ohio State is by far the best national recruiter.

I don't think the best coaches wanted to be down south. I think it's a matter of circumstance. Carr and Cooper were shoehorned into their positions. Paterno coached for 50 years. It's circumstance. Urban Meyer after all left Florida and a year later ended up at Ohio State. He could've landed back down south if he'd wanted.
 
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Delany, Scott, Slive and Swoffard are in a bar having a drink talking about whats best for each of their conferences. In that case the B12 is doomed. I could see a scenario where only Iowa St and Baylor get left out. If all you have to pay off is the contract of 2 schools the movement becomes simple. You give Baylor and ISU each $200M over 10 years and send them to CUSA. Thats all they were going to get anyway. It allows the other teams to move on. This scenario is based on the fact the GOR is not breakable, but paying the TV contracts to two schools is a cheap way to make everything happen.

Teams in play in this drunken bar scenario are

TCU, OSU, KSU, KU, Mizzu, UT, OU, TT, WVU & UConn

PAC and B1G "claim" to have academic standards.
WVU, UConn and TCU would not be logical for the PAC.
B1G would never take WVU, TCU, TT, KSU or OSU
SEC would allow Mizzu to be taken by the B1G if it allowed them 1st pick in the draft. SEC also knows that OU and Texas could have come but already said no.
ACC is the least powerful and gets 4th choice in the draft.

Swofford is told to sit in the corner while Delany and Slive figure out who goes first. Slive knows that UT is a slam dunk, but feels ATM is almost as good and doesn't want the fight or headaches that come with UT. He knows Delany's ego wants a home run and UT is as good or better than ND. Slive allows Delany the first pick. Delany thinks about it. He knows that OU will want to be with UT so he chooses...

You fill in the rest.
 
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... when Notre Dame joined the ACC, the Penn State boards were saying "why not us", "lucky devils", and "I'm jealous".

That has to be one of the most nonsensical things I've ever read.
 
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Delany, Scott, Slive and Swoffard are in a bar having a drink talking about whats best for each of their conferences. In that case the B12 is doomed. I could see a scenario where only Iowa St and Baylor get left out. If all you have to pay off is the contract of 2 schools the movement becomes simple. You give Baylor and ISU each $200M over 10 years and send them to CUSA. Thats all they were going to get anyway. It allows the other teams to move on. This scenario is based on the fact the GOR is not breakable, but paying the TV contracts to two schools is a cheap way to make everything happen.

Teams in play in this drunken bar scenario are

TCU, OSU, KSU, KU, Mizzu, UT, OU, TT, WVU & UConn

PAC and B1G "claim" to have academic standards.
WVU, UConn and TCU would not be logical for the PAC.
B1G would never take WVU, TCU, TT, KSU or OSU
SEC would allow Mizzu to be taken by the B1G if it allowed them 1st pick in the draft. SEC also knows that OU and Texas could have come but already said no.
ACC is the least powerful and gets 4th choice in the draft.

Swofford is told to sit in the corner while Delany and Slive figure out who goes first. Slive knows that UT is a slam dunk, but feels ATM is almost as good and doesn't want the fight or headaches that come with UT. He knows Delany's ego wants a home run and UT is as good or better than ND. Slive allows Delany the first pick. Delany thinks about it. He knows that OU will want to be with UT so he chooses...

You fill in the rest.

It doesn't matter to me who Delany/Slive/Scott pick first. What matters is, when Swofford arises to announce that he's come to his senses, realizes that the only way he has a chance to save his conference is to try to succeed in the northeast, and that, therefore, his pick will be UConn, Delany tells him to sit back down and names the Huskies to the B1G. Swofford has missed the boat. The ACC should be renamed the Little Brother Conference.
 
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