Yormark confirms that the big 12 was in expansion talks with Connecticut and Gonzaga but indicates neither program is being pursued any longer. | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Yormark confirms that the big 12 was in expansion talks with Connecticut and Gonzaga but indicates neither program is being pursued any longer.

In the words of Jim Calhoun, UConn basketball is about to “kick the window out” in terms of being a national power. We are going from a top 6 program to a top 2-3 program over the next few years. Dan Hurley proves day after day, that he’s a freakin maniac. His competitive spirit is on a level that only people like Calhoun, Cronin, Donovan and Knight can relate to. He’s nuts.

You might laugh at the Cronin reference, but it’s true. Cronin may not be a truly great coach, but his competitive fire is something else.
 
John said:
That's not saying much, it's not like the big guns are still around.
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So true.

Basketball brands don’t count for much anyways. If they did we wouldn’t be in the Big East for much longer.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
Right, but that's a huge IF. How do you see that playing out? Who would move for that to happen and why do you think UConn would be in a position to reap those rewards?
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The way the colleges run things, and the explicit and overt things they've been saying, means that it's definitely going to happen. They will keep the huge bulk of that $1.1b for themselves. They will only pay for their own championship in Olympic sports. And they'll tell the D2 and D3 schools to fund their own championships, preferably regional, if they want championships at all.

When the value of basketball schools goes up, conferences will want the strongest basketball schools in their conference simply because the payouts for tourney credits will be so huge. So let's say the payout is $1b. That means each tourney credit is equivalent to $15m. UConn's run last year would've been equal to $75m for whatever conference they join. UConn makes an Elite 8 run once every 3 years, which is worth $45m. 6x out of 24 they've made the F4, which is worth $75m. Say they win 1 tourney game in all the other years. That's 15m x 22. UConn would've brought in just over $1b in the last 33 years if the future structure had been in place. An average of $30m a year. Combine that with UConn's TV value for both men's and women's bball, which could be $20m, and UConn is then a $50m property not even counting football.

This presupposes that UConn is going to have another great 33 year run in the future, which is impossible. So plan for 2/3rds of that value instead.
 
Hoophound said:
You might laugh at the Cronin reference, but it’s true. Cronin may not be a truly great coach, but his competitive fire is something else.
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What are you basing that on? The level of anger? I'm not sure that counts for competitive fire. I mean, Buttermaker could get very angry to the point he even smacked his players around, but his competitive fire was very low.
 
MilliniumPrince said:
It is going to happen, and when it does we are screwed.
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Meaning you think it'll happen but it will be a breakaway scenario of p* that leaves us behind because it won't include more than the p* FB schools?
 
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upstater said:
The way the colleges run things, and the explicit and overt things they've been saying, means that it's definitely going to happen. They will keep the huge bulk of that $1.1b for themselves. They will only pay for their own championship in Olympic sports. And they'll tell the D2 and D3 schools to fund their own championships, preferably regional, if they want championships at all.

When the value of basketball schools goes up, conferences will want the strongest basketball schools in their conference simply because the payouts for tourney credits will be so huge. So let's say the payout is $1b. That means each tourney credit is equivalent to $15m. UConn's run last year would've been equal to $75m for whatever conference they join. UConn makes an Elite 8 run once every 3 years, which is worth $45m. 6x out of 24 they've made the F4, which is worth $75m. Say they win 1 tourney game in all the other years. That's 15m x 22. UConn would've brought in just over $1b in the last 33 years if the future structure had been in place. An average of $30m a year. Combine that with UConn's TV value for both men's and women's bball, which could be $20m, and UConn is then a $50m property not even counting football.

This presupposes that UConn is going to have another great 33 year run in the future, which is impossible. So plan for 2/3rds of that value instead.
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I see your logic and follow your math. I wonder if in this darwinistic scenario if they don't equally weight each round or at least don't weight the first and perhaps second round equally?

That all said, I still am not convinced the breakaway from March Madness paying for D2/D3 athletics will happen - at least not without MAJOR political blow back across all 50 states. Therefore, I think Congress gets involved at least behind the scenes to influence things so D2/D3 athletics don't literally go down the drain because I think that's what would happen. The cultural and economic impacts would be huge - thousands of jobs (coaches, administrators, etc) go away, tourism/travel goes down, alums/donors get pissed and donations go down, etc etc. IF things move in this direction, I think it would be some sort of slow progression and not just a massive overnight knife cut.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
I see your logic and follow your math. I wonder if in this darwinistic scenario if they don't equally weight each round or at least don't weight the first and perhaps second round equally?

That all said, I still am not convinced the breakaway from March Madness paying for D2/D3 athletics will happen - at least not without MAJOR political blow back across all 50 states. Therefore, I think Congress gets involved at least behind the scenes to influence things so D2/D3 athletics don't literally go down the drain because I think that's what would happen. The cultural and economic impacts would be huge - thousands of jobs (coaches, administrators, etc) go away, tourism/travel goes down, alums/donors get pissed and donations go down, etc etc. IF things move in this direction, I think it would be some sort of slow progression and not just a massive overnight knife cut.
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Congress can’t agree on things they agree on.

They aren’t going to touch college athletics. Anyone thinking there is going to be a congressional solution here is not paying attention.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
I see your logic and follow your math. I wonder if in this darwinistic scenario if they don't equally weight each round or at least don't weight the first and perhaps second round equally?

That all said, I still am not convinced the breakaway from March Madness paying for D2/D3 athletics will happen - at least not without MAJOR political blow back across all 50 states. Therefore, I think Congress gets involved at least behind the scenes to influence things so D2/D3 athletics don't literally go down the drain because I think that's what would happen. The cultural and economic impacts would be huge - thousands of jobs (coaches, administrators, etc) go away, tourism/travel goes down, alums/donors get pissed and donations go down, etc etc. IF things move in this direction, I think it would be some sort of slow progression and not just a massive overnight knife cut.
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Tackling college football is problematic because anything you do to benefit one sub contingency group is likely to penalize another. They may harumpf for a little bit, maybe, but they're not going to do anything to disenfranchise a significant portion of their constituency.
 
Beachview said:
It won’t happen because the big east doesn’t have football teams to poach.. except for uconn
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The bigs own FB and will want even more, breaking away from the NCAA in FB AND Hoop. Won’t need to poach.
 
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CTFAN4LIFE said:
I see your logic and follow your math. I wonder if in this darwinistic scenario if they don't equally weight each round or at least don't weight the first and perhaps second round equally?

That all said, I still am not convinced the breakaway from March Madness paying for D2/D3 athletics will happen - at least not without MAJOR political blow back across all 50 states. Therefore, I think Congress gets involved at least behind the scenes to influence things so D2/D3 athletics don't literally go down the drain because I think that's what would happen. The cultural and economic impacts would be huge - thousands of jobs (coaches, administrators, etc) go away, tourism/travel goes down, alums/donors get pissed and donations go down, etc etc. IF things move in this direction, I think it would be some sort of slow progression and not just a massive overnight knife cut.
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The D1 tournament does not pay anything to D2 and D3 schools currently. It hardly pays for D1 schools.

All it pays for is the championship events in those divisions.

The rest of the money goes to D1 tourney teams (about $300m of it), while the bulk of the proceeds fund the enforcement arm of the NCAA itself.

By the way, my math was all wrong, LOL. I based it on the number of tourney teams and it should have been tourney games not counting the Final 4 or the midweek games. So, it should be $8.3m per credit, instead of $15m.

The value of UConn would drop then from $30m per year in credits to $17m + TV value. I would also think that the value of the tourney increasing in each conference's eyes might impact the regular season value of basketball as a whole.

One thing I dd not include here is the value of the women's basketball tournament. As we saw last year, the ratings were huge. I just read an article that envisions a 5-fold increase in the value of the next women's tourney contract; the last one was signed in 2011. They have experienced a 27% year-over-year increase in viewership, and it's now catching up to the men's side.

With the UConn women being even MORE successful than the men, their total tourney credits may indeed result in a few million dollars more for UConn total, taking the school to over $20m+ in yearly tourney credits from men's and women's.
 
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John said:
That's not saying much, it's not like the big guns are still around.
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Only big gun program they lost was Cuse. Georgetown and St. John's are finally building up again.
 
superjohn said:
Only big gun program they lost was Cuse. Georgetown and St. John's are finally building up again.
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I'm talking athletic departments, not basketball programs.
 
JohnFSilver said:
What leads anyone here to believe they wouldn’t destroy the big east for the third time in 25 years if they thought it would be beneficial to them?

Big east is not a safe place.
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Key words there "if they thought it would be beneficial to them."

Apart from UConn, which is a state flagship and has FBS football, the Big East schools are one-trick basketball ponies. Whatever value basketball has, it's likely to be equally valuable if the schools remain in the Big East as if they move elsewhere. The exception would be if the P4 split off and have their own basketball tourney. Then it would make sense to be in a P4-plus grouping. But even there, the whole Big East could move to that.

With the decline of cable and conference networks, there's less pressure to expand conference content. I don't see a scenario where it's favorable to attack the Big East except to pull UConn away.
 
“UConn has no football history” they won 20 conference titles before UCF even existed
 
upstater said:
The D1 tournament does not pay anything to D2 and D3 schools currently. It hardly pays for D1 schools.

All it pays for is the championship events in those divisions.

The rest of the money goes to D1 tourney teams (about $300m of it), while the bulk of the proceeds fund the enforcement arm of the NCAA itself.

By the way, my math was all wrong, LOL. I based it on the number of tourney teams and it should have been tourney games not counting the Final 4 or the midweek games. So, it should be $8.3m per credit, instead of $15m.

The value of UConn would drop then from $30m per year in credits to $17m + TV value. I would also think that the value of the tourney increasing in each conference's eyes might impact the regular season value of basketball as a whole.

One thing I dd not include here is the value of the women's basketball tournament. As we saw last year, the ratings were huge. I just read an article that envisions a 5-fold increase in the value of the next women's tourney contract; the last one was signed in 2011. They have experienced a 27% year-over-year increase in viewership, and it's now catching up to the men's side.

With the UConn women being even MORE successful than the men, their total tourney credits may indeed result in a few million dollars more for UConn total, taking the school to over $20m+ in yearly tourney credits from men's and women's.
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I'm not sure that all it does is fund the D2 and D3 championships - check out this as there are a few large pots of money that aren't detailed in terms of D1 vs D2 vs D3:

 
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upstater said:
Thanks,

But it looks like the money goes to D1 athletes, and D2/D3 only get championships paid for. None of that money seems ticketed for D2/D3 athletes
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I'm assuming that if it doesn't state D1 or D2 or D3, then there's an allocation to all 3 levels?
 
Viet Vet said:
UConn alumnus here. Respectfully I must disagree. UConn is the most successful PROGRAM in the past 25 years, not the biggest BRAND. If you are a TV executive looking to maximize ad revenue, who are you putting on your network first? Kansas, Duke, or UConn?
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Maybe Duke, but no way - "the land of Dorothy". Don't fall for (or promote) the BS about Kansas. I have watched UConn all over the country and it plays well in Peoria...
 
JohnFSilver said:
No way that happens?

In the last 20 years the big east has been destroyed twice.

Now, the powers that be destroyed the Pac-12 conference. The PAC-12!!!!

What leads anyone here to believe they wouldn’t destroy the big east for the third time in 25 years if they thought it would be beneficial to them?

Big east is not a safe place.
Expand ...

It was never meant to be... It's a stopping off place...
 
pj said:
Key words there "if they thought it would be beneficial to them."

Apart from UConn, which is a state flagship and has FBS football, the Big East schools are one-trick basketball ponies. Whatever value basketball has, it's likely to be equally valuable if the schools remain in the Big East as if they move elsewhere. The exception would be if the P4 split off and have their own basketball tourney. Then it would make sense to be in a P4-plus grouping. But even there, the whole Big East could move to that.

With the decline of cable and conference networks, there's less pressure to expand conference content. I don't see a scenario where it's favorable to attack the Big East except to pull UConn away.
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You are wrong. If they are after basketball money, they need to get brands. Gtown, nova are brands. As is Gonzaga and ti a lesser extent Marquette and at John’s.
 
JohnFSilver said:
You are wrong. If they are after basketball money, they need to get brands. Gtown, nova are brands. As is Gonzaga and ti a lesser extent Marquette and at John’s.
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If the money is flowing from networks / streaming services to brands, then why does it matter which conference the brands are in? Why would Gtown and Nova be incentivized to move from Big East to Big XII? They would make the same money either way and be with more like-minded and local schools in the Big East.

The only way it makes financial sense for the Big East to disintegrate is if there is a P4 breakaway from the NCAA and the Big East is left outside the P4 grouping (ie no P4 in football and P4+ in basketball with Big East inside the tent).
 
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The money does not flow directly from networks to "brands". To networks, a brand value is determined by viewer draw as much as national recognition. And a brand value is sublimated to the sum value of the brand along with its conference mates.

And viewership is influenced by media carriage. As puzzling as it appears, the 2023 A-10 tournament final out drew the Big East tournament final in TV viewers.

A six year history of viewership:

 
pj said:
If the money is flowing from networks / streaming services to brands, then why does it matter which conference the brands are in? Why would Gtown and Nova be incentivized to move from Big East to Big XII? They would make the same money either way and be with more like-minded and local schools in the Big East.

The only way it makes financial sense for the Big East to disintegrate is if there is a P4 breakaway from the NCAA and the Big East is left outside the P4 grouping (ie no P4 in football and P4+ in basketball with Big East inside the tent).
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The money from the networks is a minor part of it.

The real money is the money from the tournament.

Football might be headed this way soon. The playoff is going to be worth a lot more money than the conference TV package.

So the conferences with the best schools are going to make the most money per member.
 
upstater said:
Thanks,

But it looks like the money goes to D1 athletes, and D2/D3 only get championships paid for. None of that money seems ticketed for D2/D3 athletes
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All NCAA championships D1-D3 are.all Funded by the NCAA Their total. sports related expenses are less than $300,000,000 + the BB fund .
Im not aware of any D1 athletes being paid unless your counting the scholarship distribution to member schools.
No Sports getting money from. NCAA other than mens basketball which goes to the conferences who dictate terms of distribution is not done .
That may change with a substantial bump in the new contract that covers D1 championships , the NIT and women’s basketball plus men’s overseas rights . It currently undervalued at $35,000,000 a year but could go as high as $150,000,000 or higher based on the perceived growth of the women’s BB tourney valued at $80,000,000 to $100,000,000 which on paper lost money under the old contract.
Media money and FB playoff. Money are separate
Right now the only advantage of being in a power conference is media money. The Big East is the only BB conference with a media deal so its not advantageous However for a WSU going from the MVC to the AAC was worth $2,000,000 a year. Gonzaga would get a bump .Unless the Big East deal falls apart or the tourney is changed moving BB is silly . All sports to P or FB only is a different story .
 
AZHuskiePop said:
All NCAA championships D1-D3 are.all Funded by the NCAA Their total. sports related expenses are less than $300,000,000 + the BB fund .
Im not aware of any D1 athletes being paid unless your counting the scholarship distribution to member schools.
No Sports getting money from. NCAA other than mens basketball which goes to the conferences who dictate terms of distribution is not done .
That may change with a substantial bump in the new contract that covers D1 championships , the NIT and women’s basketball plus men’s overseas rights . It currently undervalued at $35,000,000 a year but could go as high as $150,000,000 or higher based on the perceived growth of the women’s BB tourney valued at $80,000,000 to $100,000,000 which on paper lost money under the old contract.
Media money and FB playoff. Money are separate
Right now the only advantage of being in a power conference is media money. The Big East is the only BB conference with a media deal so its not advantageous However for a WSU going from the MVC to the AAC was worth $2,000,000 a year. Gonzaga would get a bump .Unless the Big East deal falls apart or the tourney is changed moving BB is silly . All sports to P or FB only is a different story .
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I'm honestly not seeing what in your post is responding to mind.

The last part about the only advantage to a power conference being media money? The football playoff money is huge.
 
Defending National Champion UConn Huskies just dismissed the Big 12's departing #15 ranked Texas Longhorns at MSG in NYC. Hmm, who would be a good replacement in the Big 12? Let's think about this.

I have to believe UConn isn't mentioned anymore because, perhaps, UConn made it clear it isn't interested in a basketball only deal. Otherwise none of it makes any sense at all.
 
Kolumbo said:
Defending National Champion UConn Huskies just dismissed the Big 12's departing #15 ranked Texas Longhorns at MSG in NYC. Hmm, who would be a good replacement in the Big 12? Let's think about this.

I have to believe UConn isn't mentioned anymore because, perhaps, UConn made it clear it isn't interested in a basketball only deal. Otherwise none of it makes any sense at all.
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Very true.

I could see an SMU type deal for all sports making more sense than basketball only.

At least with that football would get a very tangible boost. But it would suck for basketball.
 
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