Yormark confirms that the big 12 was in expansion talks with Connecticut and Gonzaga but indicates neither program is being pursued any longer.

[John]

Only big gun program they lost was Cuse. Georgetown and St. John's are finally building up again.

I'm talking athletic departments, not basketball programs.

 

[pj]

What leads anyone here to believe they wouldn’t destroy the big east for the third time in 25 years if they thought it would be beneficial to them?

Big east is not a safe place.

Key words there "if they thought it would be beneficial to them."

Apart from UConn, which is a state flagship and has FBS football, the Big East schools are one-trick basketball ponies. Whatever value basketball has, it's likely to be equally valuable if the schools remain in the Big East as if they move elsewhere. The exception would be if the P4 split off and have their own basketball tourney. Then it would make sense to be in a P4-plus grouping. But even there, the whole Big East could move to that.

With the decline of cable and conference networks, there's less pressure to expand conference content. I don't see a scenario where it's favorable to attack the Big East except to pull UConn away.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

“UConn has no football history” they won 20 conference titles before UCF even existed

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The D1 tournament does not pay anything to D2 and D3 schools currently. It hardly pays for D1 schools.

All it pays for is the championship events in those divisions.

The rest of the money goes to D1 tourney teams (about $300m of it), while the bulk of the proceeds fund the enforcement arm of the NCAA itself.

By the way, my math was all wrong, LOL. I based it on the number of tourney teams and it should have been tourney games not counting the Final 4 or the midweek games. So, it should be $8.3m per credit, instead of $15m.

The value of UConn would drop then from $30m per year in credits to $17m + TV value. I would also think that the value of the tourney increasing in each conference's eyes might impact the regular season value of basketball as a whole.

One thing I dd not include here is the value of the women's basketball tournament. As we saw last year, the ratings were huge. I just read an article that envisions a 5-fold increase in the value of the next women's tourney contract; the last one was signed in 2011. They have experienced a 27% year-over-year increase in viewership, and it's now catching up to the men's side.

With the UConn women being even MORE successful than the men, their total tourney credits may indeed result in a few million dollars more for UConn total, taking the school to over $20m+ in yearly tourney credits from men's and women's.

I'm not sure that all it does is fund the D2 and D3 championships - check out this as there are a few large pots of money that aren't detailed in terms of D1 vs D2 vs D3:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/about/ncaa/101/NCAA101_WheretheMoneyGoes.pdf

 

[upstater]

I'm not sure that all it does is fund the D2 and D3 championships - check out this as there are a few large pots of money that aren't detailed in terms of D1 vs D2 vs D3:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/about/ncaa/101/NCAA101_WheretheMoneyGoes.pdf

Thanks,

But it looks like the money goes to D1 athletes, and D2/D3 only get championships paid for. None of that money seems ticketed for D2/D3 athletes

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Thanks,

But it looks like the money goes to D1 athletes, and D2/D3 only get championships paid for. None of that money seems ticketed for D2/D3 athletes

I'm assuming that if it doesn't state D1 or D2 or D3, then there's an allocation to all 3 levels?

 

[Sea Goat]

UConn alumnus here. Respectfully I must disagree. UConn is the most successful PROGRAM in the past 25 years, not the biggest BRAND. If you are a TV executive looking to maximize ad revenue, who are you putting on your network first? Kansas, Duke, or UConn?

Maybe Duke, but no way - "the land of Dorothy". Don't fall for (or promote) the BS about Kansas. I have watched UConn all over the country and it plays well in Peoria...

 

[Sea Goat]

No way that happens?

In the last 20 years the big east has been destroyed twice.

Now, the powers that be destroyed the Pac-12 conference. The PAC-12!!!!

What leads anyone here to believe they wouldn’t destroy the big east for the third time in 25 years if they thought it would be beneficial to them?

Big east is not a safe place.

It was never meant to be... It's a stopping off place...

 

[JohnFSilver]

Key words there "if they thought it would be beneficial to them."

Apart from UConn, which is a state flagship and has FBS football, the Big East schools are one-trick basketball ponies. Whatever value basketball has, it's likely to be equally valuable if the schools remain in the Big East as if they move elsewhere. The exception would be if the P4 split off and have their own basketball tourney. Then it would make sense to be in a P4-plus grouping. But even there, the whole Big East could move to that.

With the decline of cable and conference networks, there's less pressure to expand conference content. I don't see a scenario where it's favorable to attack the Big East except to pull UConn away.

You are wrong. If they are after basketball money, they need to get brands. Gtown, nova are brands. As is Gonzaga and ti a lesser extent Marquette and at John’s.

 

[pj]

You are wrong. If they are after basketball money, they need to get brands. Gtown, nova are brands. As is Gonzaga and ti a lesser extent Marquette and at John’s.

If the money is flowing from networks / streaming services to brands, then why does it matter which conference the brands are in? Why would Gtown and Nova be incentivized to move from Big East to Big XII? They would make the same money either way and be with more like-minded and local schools in the Big East.

The only way it makes financial sense for the Big East to disintegrate is if there is a P4 breakaway from the NCAA and the Big East is left outside the P4 grouping (ie no P4 in football and P4+ in basketball with Big East inside the tent).

 

[billybud]

The money does not flow directly from networks to "brands". To networks, a brand value is determined by viewer draw as much as national recognition. And a brand value is sublimated to the sum value of the brand along with its conference mates.

And viewership is influenced by media carriage. As puzzling as it appears, the 2023 A-10 tournament final out drew the Big East tournament final in TV viewers.

A six year history of viewership:

https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2023/03/image-17.png

 

[upstater]

If the money is flowing from networks / streaming services to brands, then why does it matter which conference the brands are in? Why would Gtown and Nova be incentivized to move from Big East to Big XII? They would make the same money either way and be with more like-minded and local schools in the Big East.

The only way it makes financial sense for the Big East to disintegrate is if there is a P4 breakaway from the NCAA and the Big East is left outside the P4 grouping (ie no P4 in football and P4+ in basketball with Big East inside the tent).

The money from the networks is a minor part of it.

The real money is the money from the tournament.

Football might be headed this way soon. The playoff is going to be worth a lot more money than the conference TV package.

So the conferences with the best schools are going to make the most money per member.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Thanks,

But it looks like the money goes to D1 athletes, and D2/D3 only get championships paid for. None of that money seems ticketed for D2/D3 athletes

All NCAA championships D1-D3 are.all Funded by the NCAA Their total. sports related expenses are less than $300,000,000 + the BB fund .
Im not aware of any D1 athletes being paid unless your counting the scholarship distribution to member schools.
No Sports getting money from. NCAA other than mens basketball which goes to the conferences who dictate terms of distribution is not done .
That may change with a substantial bump in the new contract that covers D1 championships , the NIT and women’s basketball plus men’s overseas rights . It currently undervalued at $35,000,000 a year but could go as high as $150,000,000 or higher based on the perceived growth of the women’s BB tourney valued at $80,000,000 to $100,000,000 which on paper lost money under the old contract.
Media money and FB playoff. Money are separate
Right now the only advantage of being in a power conference is media money. The Big East is the only BB conference with a media deal so its not advantageous However for a WSU going from the MVC to the AAC was worth $2,000,000 a year. Gonzaga would get a bump .Unless the Big East deal falls apart or the tourney is changed moving BB is silly . All sports to P or FB only is a different story .

 

[upstater]

All NCAA championships D1-D3 are.all Funded by the NCAA Their total. sports related expenses are less than $300,000,000 + the BB fund .
Im not aware of any D1 athletes being paid unless your counting the scholarship distribution to member schools.
No Sports getting money from. NCAA other than mens basketball which goes to the conferences who dictate terms of distribution is not done .
That may change with a substantial bump in the new contract that covers D1 championships , the NIT and women’s basketball plus men’s overseas rights . It currently undervalued at $35,000,000 a year but could go as high as $150,000,000 or higher based on the perceived growth of the women’s BB tourney valued at $80,000,000 to $100,000,000 which on paper lost money under the old contract.
Media money and FB playoff. Money are separate
Right now the only advantage of being in a power conference is media money. The Big East is the only BB conference with a media deal so its not advantageous However for a WSU going from the MVC to the AAC was worth $2,000,000 a year. Gonzaga would get a bump .Unless the Big East deal falls apart or the tourney is changed moving BB is silly . All sports to P or FB only is a different story .

I'm honestly not seeing what in your post is responding to mind.

The last part about the only advantage to a power conference being media money? The football playoff money is huge.

 

[Kolumbo]

Defending National Champion UConn Huskies just dismissed the Big 12's departing #15 ranked Texas Longhorns at MSG in NYC. Hmm, who would be a good replacement in the Big 12? Let's think about this.

I have to believe UConn isn't mentioned anymore because, perhaps, UConn made it clear it isn't interested in a basketball only deal. Otherwise none of it makes any sense at all.

 

[ZooCougar]

Defending National Champion UConn Huskies just dismissed the Big 12's departing #15 ranked Texas Longhorns at MSG in NYC. Hmm, who would be a good replacement in the Big 12? Let's think about this.

I have to believe UConn isn't mentioned anymore because, perhaps, UConn made it clear it isn't interested in a basketball only deal. Otherwise none of it makes any sense at all.

Very true.

I could see an SMU type deal for all sports making more sense than basketball only.

At least with that football would get a very tangible boost. But it would suck for basketball.

 

[John]

Very true.

I could see an SMU type deal for all sports making more sense than basketball only.

At least with that football would get a very tangible boost. But it would suck for basketball.

going to the arguably top basketball conference would suck for basketball?

 

[ZooCougar]

going to the arguably top basketball conference would suck for basketball?

Yeah the feeling I get from the primarily hoop fans is that the Big East is the best fit.

 

[Kolumbo]

Very true.

I could see an SMU type deal for all sports making more sense than basketball only.

At least with that football would get a very tangible boost. But it would suck for basketball.

It's hard to say it would suck for basketball. Yes the travel is worse, but Kansas, K-State, Baylor, TT, Okie State, WVU, Cincy, Houston. Plus Arizona and Utah.

It would be great if they added some more east coast programs which could happen with Pitt. An eastern Pod Big 12 would be nice, not that it would ever happen.

 

[ZooCougar]

It's hard to say it would suck for basketball. Yes the travel is worse, but Kansas, K-State, Baylor, TT, Okie State, WVU, Cincy, Houston. Plus Arizona and Utah.

It would be great if they added some more east coast programs which could happen with Pitt. An eastern Pod Big 12 would be nice, not that it would ever happen.

The risk is being at a huge disadvantage with the schools in the core of the Big 12 who are never more than a half day’s drive apart.

 

[How Sway?!]

It's hard to say it would suck for basketball. Yes the travel is worse, but Kansas, K-State, Baylor, TT, Okie State, WVU, Cincy, Houston. Plus Arizona and Utah.

It would be great if they added some more east coast programs which could happen with Pitt. An eastern Pod Big 12 would be nice, not that it would ever happen.

Oklahoma State is bad, so is wvu now, Texas tech was a flash in a pan with Beard, let's wait and see if k-state doesn't fall to the same fate. Kansas, Arizona, Houston and Baylor is a nice group, but the rest is nothing to write home about.

 

[Kolumbo]

Oklahoma State is bad, so is wvu now, Texas tech was a flash in a pan with Beard, let's wait and see if k-state doesn't fall to the same fate. Kansas, Arizona, Houston and Baylor is a nice group, but the rest is nothing to write home about.

I'm not even debating which conference is better, only that a lineup as proffered is pretty good. If you think Okie State and WVU are bad, how would you classify half the Big East. Sure all on this board can agree that Cincy has become a steaming pile of chili, but it should rebound with the right coach. An eastern pod of 5 or 6 programs would be intriguing. If it should come to pass that Cincy, Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse were in a pod, UConn damn well better be part of that mix.

 

[How Sway?!]

I'm not even debating which conference is better, only that a lineup as proffered is pretty good. If you think Okie State and WVU are bad, how would you classify half the Big East. Sure all on this board can agree that Cincy has become a steaming pile of chili, but it should rebound with the right coach. An eastern pod of 5 or 6 programs would be intriguing. If it should come to pass that Cincy, Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse were in a pod, UConn damn well better be part of that mix.

The only big east schools with a lower kenpom than wvu and ok state are DePaul and Georgetown. Also no acc school is going to leave to the B12, it pays less

 

[buddy]

The only big east schools with a lower kenpom than wvu and ok state are DePaul and Georgetown. Also no acc school is going to leave to the B12, it pays less

They will leave the ACC when it dissolves and the premiere schools leave. The B12 will pay a lot more than the new ACC.

 

[buddy]

I'm not even debating which conference is better, only that a lineup as proffered is pretty good. If you think Okie State and WVU are bad, how would you classify half the Big East. Sure all on this board can agree that Cincy has become a steaming pile of chili, but it should rebound with the right coach. An eastern pod of 5 or 6 programs would be intriguing. If it should come to pass that Cincy, Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse were in a pod, UConn damn well better be part of that mix.

I am really fearful that the Big 12 ship has sailed. This football season likely put the final nail in the coffin for a chance in a power conference. Coach Mora's whining I fear is just confirmation of such. The Big 12 will scoop up those ACC schools just like they did when the PAC dissolved and UConn nation was left on the outside again. Remember, ESPN controls conference realignment. They will always favor Cuse over UConn.