XL center renovations considered as part of sports betting deal

[CL82]

It’s fine. Some hotels and light industrial. 2 major highways. Residential about 1 mile away

So really nothing in the immediate area but the garden spot of Rutherford New Jersey is about a mile away.

 

[CL82]

You just sound like one of those anti-Hartford people. Stay out in Putnam, Avon, or Guilford...or wherever you're from. I see zero wrong with that statement. It is easy to see. It would be great.

When it happens, please don't come. And would it make sense if Mohegan/Foxwoods chipped in?

The problem is that it’s what’s called “magic thinking.“ That’s how toddlers think. As in ”I wish fir this to be true, therefore it must be true.” It makes no rational sense. If the CDRA believes that adding a sports book makes the casino more viable, they should show actual financial projections to back it up. The fact that they haven’t speaks volumes.

 

[XLCenterFan]

The problem is that it’s what’s called “magic thinking.“ That’s how toddlers think. Ali, I wish this to be true, therefore it must be true. It makes no rational sense. That’s how toddlers think. ”I wish fir this to be true, therefore it must be true.” It makes no rational sense. If the CDRA believes that adding a sports book makes the casino more viable, they should show actual financial projections to back it up. The fact that they haven’t, speaks volumes.

What if the casinos chipped in so we were only the hook for a third of the investment?

Also, this would be a public good. Besides myself, I could think of countless people that I know personally that would enjoy the use of such an establishment. Public goods don't necessarily have to profit to "work," or to be "deemed a success." Were jobs created? Did people frequent the city, which then has ancillary benefits? Did local housing markets experience a slight uptick in value? Were insurance jobs kept? I could go on and on.

Public goods can be expenses. They can't be thought of as private investment, in the private market. And again, if the casinos could go thirds with the state, it would benefit all. As a taxpayer, these are the things I actually want my money to go towards. Bring it on please.

 

[CL82]

What if the casinos chipped in so we were only the hook for a third of the investment?

Why would they? What is the benefit to them?

Also, this would be a public good. Besides myself, I could think of countless people that I know personally that would enjoy the use of such an establishment. Public goods don't necessarily have to profit to "work," or to be "deemed a success." Were jobs created? Did people frequent the city, which then has ancillary benefits? Did local housing markets experience a slight uptick in value? Were insurance jobs kept? I could go on and on.

Well, if it would be a “public good“ I guess that would make it all right… But wait doesn’t that nonsensical argument mean that government should spend unlimited money for anything that is vaguely perceived To convey some non-quantifiable public benefit. That seems like a really bad governing principle.

Take a look at the “benefits“ that you’ve listed they are vague, imaginary and unquantifiable. Imagining a benefit is different than there being a benefit. Our jobs going to be created? Well, how many of them, how long will they last, what will they pay, will they actually benefit taxpayers are they going to be jobs for people who aren’t part of the tax base? I particularly liked the wheel local housing markets experience a “slight” uptick... [chuckle] even you don’t seem particularly convinced by that. “Were insurance jobs kept?” is even more tenuous. The thing is these types of things, well not exactly these but similar economic benefits, can be quantified in studied. The reason that none of the advocates for the project have, or will, is because they are imaginary. Taxpayer dollars are in monopoly money which you just throw at vague ideas. The decision to move forward with the project has an impact on local residents.

Public goods can be expenses. They can't be thought of as private investment, in the private market

This is absolutely wrong. Any investment of public funds needs to be analyzed and quantified as thoroughly as you would a private investment. To feel to do that would be a fundamental breach of the duties of the governing body.

And again, if the casinos could go thirds with the state, it would benefit all

Again, why would they? And again, would it actually benefit all?

As a taxpayer, these are the things I actually want my money to go towards.

I understand that, but I think that you haven’t really thought it through. What expenses of the city of Hartford, or the state of Connecticut are you willing to forgo so we can afford this? Snow plowing? Policing? Environmental regulation? Or perhaps you believe we should keep all those things but instead should just tax people more? In a state that is struggling as much economically as Connecticut, does that seem like a good idea? What things with the Connecticut taxpayers have to forgo individually to be able to afford the additional taxes? If they could not, would they just leave?

 

[Kolumbo]

I was curious about the new Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, site of the AAC tournament.
Basketball: 13,550
Cost: $540 million
Opened: November 2019
Opening Show: 21 Pilots
Tenants: Fort Worth Stock Show and Rodeo, Panther City Lacrosse Club
"Dickies Arena has the second-largest, continuous 360-degree screen in North America. The scoreboard is so large, it extends past the width of the basketball court."

 

[WestHartHusk]

I was curious about the new Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, site of the AAC tournament.
Basketball: 13,550
Cost: $540 million
Opened: November 2019
Opening Show: 21 Pilots
Tenants: Fort Worth Stock Show and Rodeo, Panther City Lacrosse Club
"Dickies Arena has the second-largest, continuous 360-degree screen in North America. The scoreboard is so large, it extends past the width of the basketball court."

View attachment 65433

What a huge waste of money. $500M for THAT?

 

[Magruber]

Your original comment was far more ridiculous. Ask around.

I kind of agree with CL82.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Outside view of Dickie's

 

[Kolumbo]

What a huge waste of money. $500M for THAT?

It's pretty sweet though. I guess city paid half, Ed Bass paid half.

Inside Fort Worth’s New $540 Million Showcase — An Exclusive Sneak Peek at Dickies Arena (papercitymag.com)

 

[Chin Diesel]

As a non-resident and non-taxpayer, I'd vote for a complete redo. You can only put so much lipstick on the pig. Ideally you'd work a land swap for one of the parking lots near XL and The Dunk and build the new arena while XL gets used for its last year or two. Once the new arena is up and running destroy the XL and give it to whomever you took the property from to build the new arena.

It's going to cost money and it's probably going to require using eminent domain. And a public project which will be used by the public in Hartford and throughout the state is a proper use of eminent domain.

This really isn't different than any mechanical thing that wears down over time. If you are on top of your finances you plan the depreciation and plan ahead for the replacement. We talk about it in all the "I'm looking for a new car" threads where we all know it's always less expensive to do a repair on a car that's paid off than it is to buy a new or newer car. But eventually you need to replace an arena. 45 years from the XL is plenty long enough.

 

[Friarsnoop]

One of the ways Louisville convinced the ACC to let them in over UConn in the prior round of realignment was to brag about how much they were spending on facilities.

Louisville was invited because of their football team. They had been regularly ranked over the previous decade. UConn was as good a fit in basketball, and a better fit academically. Clemson, Miami, and Florida State threatened to leave if they didn't get Louisville, and the football money won.

 

[XLCenterFan]

I kind of agree with CL82.

Kind of? Way to halfway make a statement. You think we should be trying to get into the ACC or the Big 10?

 

[Zissou]

As a visitor I always thought the XL was a good venue. I don’t by into the throw away society to replace with something shiny and new. It’s great for viewing basketball.

The issue with focusing on renovating the XL is that it is just such a small issue compared to CT as a state and Hartford as a city going in the wrong direction. CT is way over taxed and business has left and residential neighborhoods in Hartford have declined.

Casinos are a desperation move. Attracting a pro sports franchise is unrealistic with the condition of Hartford. None of us would realistically pick Hartford.

Creating a low tax economic zone in Hartford just gives Hartford a competitive advantage over other areas in the state. It doesn’t really help the state. CT needs to reform as a state. Voters need to create radical reform.

 

[CTBasketball]

As a visitor I always thought the XL was a good venue. I don’t by into the throw away society to replace with something shiny and new. It’s great for viewing basketball.

The issue with focusing on renovating the XL is that it is just such a small issue compared to CT as a state and Hartford as a city going in the wrong direction. CT is way over taxed and business has left and residential neighborhoods in Hartford have declined.

Casinos are a desperation move. Attracting a pro sports franchise is unrealistic with the condition of Hartford. None of us would realistically pick Hartford.

Creating a low tax economic zone in Hartford just gives Hartford a competitive advantage over other areas in the state. It doesn’t really help the state. CT needs to reform as a state. Voters need to create radical reform.

After any game at XL you can stumble across the street to the alley next to the Russian Lady, usually you’ll find needles and various nips. Sometimes if you’re lucky you’ll find a 750 of Smirnoff. We call those keepers.

 

[Waquoit]

Sometimes if you’re lucky you’ll find a 750 of Smirnoff. We call those keepers.

Y'know that's probably some person's stash. Don't you have your own money?

 

[CTBasketball]

Y'know that's probably some person's stash. Don't you have your own money?

I gave some guy my last $50 to valet my car outside of XL on Asylum and he never brought my car or my money back.

 

[Waquoit]

I gave some guy my last $50 to valet my car outside of XL on Asylum and he never brought my car or my money back.

So you are getting even in your mind?

 

[CTBasketball]

So you are getting even in your mind?

My Audi was worth a lot more than 750ml of vodka!

 

[HuskyHawk]

Hartford lost its chance when they put I-91 along the river. It also should have annexed W Hartford, Bloomfield and Wethersfield at a minimum.

I assume they can't build a new arena where the old Colt Armory is, right? Building it on the current site isn't the right answer in my view. There just aren't enough people in downtown. If you are investing that money you need to use it to drive more residential. Build it at Colt and you've got Colt Park, you create foot bridges tunnels to Charter Oak Landing, you've got Dillon, you add condos and Apartments along with retail, bars, restaurants.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I haven't spent any time in Hartford for over a decade. Pushing 2. I'm definitely a CT outsider these days. My perception of CT, Hartford and much of the Northeast is it's a barren husk of what it was. Attempts to "revitalize" a city seemed flawed if the tax base is leaving.

I have no problem with gambling, but bringing sports betting seems like a bad sign. I suppose it's better than nothing, but it feels similar to having a payday advance business or a pawn shop in your neighborhood. It's a sign that you live in a lousy neighborhood. Probably best to move.

 

[superjohn]

I haven't spent any time in Hartford for over a decade. Pushing 2. I'm definitely a CT outsider these days. My perception of CT, Hartford and much of the Northeast is it's a barren husk of what it was. Attempts to "revitalize" a city seemed flawed if the tax base is leaving.

I have no problem with gambling, but bringing sports betting seems like a bad sign. I suppose it's better than nothing, but it feels similar to having a payday advance business or a pawn shop in your neighborhood. It's a sign that you live in a lousy neighborhood. Probably best to move.

Lol.
NJ Sports Betting Tops $4.5 Billion In 2019 Handle, Mobile Hits New High

NJ Sports Betting Tops $4.5 Billion In 2019 Handle, Mobile Hits New High

Any sliver of doubt about whether mobile NJ sports betting is the future faded emphatically in December 2019. New Jersey topped $4.5 billion in handle.

www.legalsportsreport.com

 

[MexicoHusky]

Lol.
NJ Sports Betting Tops $4.5 Billion In 2019 Handle, Mobile Hits New High

NJ Sports Betting Tops $4.5 Billion In 2019 Handle, Mobile Hits New High

Any sliver of doubt about whether mobile NJ sports betting is the future faded emphatically in December 2019. New Jersey topped $4.5 billion in handle.

www.legalsportsreport.com

Thats Fair. I think I still would prefer if Pratt & Whitney doubled their orders. Hired a bunch of people in East Hartford. The Hartford Insurance brought all it's oversees jobs back to Connecticut. Hell, i wish the Whalers came back. obviously that's all a bit fantasy. I'm living in the past.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Not sure what you think is going to happen to the surrounding suburbs of Hartford becomes the desolate wasteland half of you imagine it is, but... it ain't gonna help your property values, I promise you that.

Young people like to live in urban environments. If they could bury the highway and revitalize Hartford, that would be great. All of you all talking a lot of smack about a city that nobody wants to visit probably said the same thing about the Yard Goats which pre-pandemic were a HUGE success and draw in a very bad neighborhood.

All things are possible. Doesn't make them easy. But incessant negativity is also not particularly helpful.

The "oh me oh my people do drugs in the city" is especially comical, given the prevalence of addiction and drug use across this entire nation. Don't kid yourselves. People abuse drugs in every town now. Maybe they just do fancy drugs like cocaine in your neighborhood or drink expensive bourbon so that makes it okay.

One of the bigger issues I see is that West Hartford has cannibalized a lot of the night life in Hartford. It's the "cool" area now, along with the West End of Hartford. How we can connect all those things I don't know.

But people who are like "oh I saw a needle in Hartford" are not contributing to the conversation. Surprised you can even type so well with your white gloves on.

 

[Kolumbo]

Hartford lost its chance when they put I-91 along the river. It also should have annexed W Hartford, Bloomfield and Wethersfield at a minimum.

I assume they can't build a new arena where the old Colt Armory is, right? Building it on the current site isn't the right answer in my view. There just aren't enough people in downtown. If you are investing that money you need to use it to drive more residential. Build it at Colt and you've got Colt Park, you create foot bridges tunnels to Charter Oak Landing, you've got Dillon, you add condos and Apartments along with retail, bars, restaurants.

I think Colt Armory has been renovated.

They could build it south along the river where Brainard Aiport is. There is also plenty of land between Dunkin Donuts Park and the Meadows/XFinity Theater. That would still be somewhat close to downtown but not in downtown. Start from scratch and do it right. They can build it smaller, basketball only, and just implode the current monstrosity. Plenty of room for a nice facility with restaurants and retail. But including hockey would obviously be more expensive.

 

[Waquoit]

I haven't spent any time in Hartford for over a decade. Pushing 2. I'm definitely a CT outsider these days.

Yet that doesn't stop you from spouting ignorance about the area. Props, you be you.