Wrong team for KLS?

[Dokey]

I agree, and to add on to that. Chicago's starters at 2 and 3 are Quigley and DeShields, both all-stars. That leaves Lou is competing for bench minutes with Copper and Gabby.

James Wade got a clear directive when he was hired that Chicago needed to make the playoffs. With that in mind, he's gone to the more experienced known quantities.

Also, what do we say about freshman? The easiest way to earn playing time is with defense, right? That's not Lou's strength but it is Gabby's strength and Copper's strength.

Now, Copper's rookie deal expires after this season. She is due for a raise and Chicago may not be able to keep her. Quigley's deal is also up after this year. She likely re-signs with the hometown team but she'll turn 34 next season. It's reasonable to ask how much longer she can keep going year round. So going forward Lou could have a clearer path to playing time.

I think Lou should fit Wade's offensive style very well, so I don' t know about Chicago being the wrong team for her. It's just a very unfriendly depth chart for a rookie who needs some minutes to get acclimated. And of course, the injury didn't help.

That unfriendly depth chart is why I asked if this was wrong team. You only have so many years (unless you’re Sue Bird) to play in your prime. Quigley isn’t likely to go elsewhere and leave her wife. Besides she’s playing well.

 

[Orangutan]

That unfriendly depth chart is why I asked if this was wrong team. You only have so many years (unless you’re Sue Bird) to play in your prime. Quigley isn’t likely to go elsewhere and leave her wife. Besides she’s playing well.

Cappie Pondexter was pretty good in her age 33 season. Her age 34 year she fell off badly which continued through her age 35 year and she couldn't find a team at 36.

Now Allie will be able to shoot 3s until she's 50 (at least) and she never had much athleticism to begin with. I'm just saying - the drop-off can happen fast.

I wouldn't be surprised if Quigley's age factored into Chicago's decision to draft another young 3-point shooter.

 

[bbsamjj]

What's interesting is that most mock drafts had Chicago taking a 4 (either Collier or Anigwe). Instead, Chicago ended up getting Jantel Lavender in a trade after the draft to shore up that position (This seems to have worked out well for the Sky, given then wanted immediate help: Jantel is averaging 9.5ppg, 6.9rpg, and shooting 50% FG next to Dolson).

Wade was obviously much higher on KLS than others, since most mock drafts had here mid to late first round. As Orangutan mentioned above, she might be more of a year 2 pick than a year 1, given that there are unknowns with Quigley's age and Copper's free agency.

 

[ctkaiser]

To piggy back on what many of you have already said, Lou (unlike Collier) has to wait her turn. Getting hurt did not help. That injury cost her valuable games and playing time that she will never get back. Having a new coach does not help either.

Napheesa Collier (I love her first name) was lucky enough to go to a team that has an established coach, a winning culture, and 4 starters (Maya Moore, Rebekkah Brunson, Seimone Augustus, Karima Christmas-Kelly) that were not available to begin the season, which created a "perfect storm" for her to begin the season as a starter, stay in the line up, and learn as she went along. Collier is averaging 35+ mpg.

Her 28 point performance in her first regular season game against the Chicago Sky gave her and her coaches confidence and affirmation that she could play at that level, and could be counted on to make significant contributions to the team this year.

Lou will get her opportunity in the coming weeks and years. Remember that Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis had the same thing happen to her her first two seasons under then head coach Jenny Boucek. KML couldn't get off the bench. Things have since opened up for her. Earlier this year she was starting. She's getting her minutes now. Lou is not going anywhere. Gabby started 30 games her rookie season under departed coach/GM Amber Stocks. She averaged 11.4 pts /6.7 rpg.

All American Brianna Turner can't get off the bench in Phoenix. Rookies don't always come in right away and make a BIG splash. Look at the year Jordin Canada is having her 2nd year subbing in for an injured Sue Bird in Seattle. She didn't raise any eyebrows her rookie year.

Our All-Star Kia Nurse, had to wait until her sophomore year for things to open up and blossom for her. Look at her now. Kia is taking FULL advantage of the opportunity afforded to her. She's become a starter, and is either the leading scorer, or among the top 2-3. each game. She was voted a starter this year. That fact along speaks for it self.

Don't worry about Lou, she'll become a valuable and respected member of the Sky in the years to come. All things in time. Right now, lets pray for her to get and stay healthy, and make the necessary adjustments to play and be productive at this level.

Brianna Turner, Sophie Cunningham and Alanna Smith who are ail extremely talented rookies were glued to the bench during the Mercury's recent game vs Sun. Got in for 90 seconds of garbage time. Every coach is different. Some don't want to play rookies.

 

[JoePgh]

Cappie Pondexter was pretty good in her age 33 season. Her age 34 year she fell off badly which continued through her age 35 year and she couldn't find a team at 36.

Now Allie will be able to shoot 3s until she's 50 (at least) and she never had much athleticism to begin with. I'm just saying - the drop-off can happen fast.

I wouldn't be surprised if Quigley's age factored into Chicago's decision to draft another young 3-point shooter.

Maybe the fact that the Sky had a positive experience with one intelligent 3-point shooter who had been well coached and well seasoned in college despite not being overly athletic (Quigley) caused them to make a bet on a younger player (KLS) with that same basic profile. And they may win that bet, although probably not this year.

I also disagree about whether Lou can be a 4 in the WNBA. It should be easier for her to improve her upper body strength (needed for the 4) than to improve her speed and quickness (needed for the 2 or 3). Either way, she has to develop physical skills that she does not currently possess.

 

[boontonbomber]

Gabby being asked to play point is being set up for failure. I like Copper, but she's getting more minutes than Gabby, and really can't do as many things as Gabby. The Sky is one of the worst passing teams in the league. Gabby has always shown herself to have great vision and, as a result, has always been a very good passer. Hopefully Gabby will find herself somewhere next year where her unique talents( passing, defense, rebounding) will be more utilized. I expect there's some coach out there who would love to have her.

 

[Orangutan]

Gabby being asked to play point is being set up for failure. I like Copper, but she's getting more minutes than Gabby, and really can't do as many things as Gabby. The Sky is one of the worst passing teams in the league. Gabby has always shown herself to have great vision and, as a result, has always been a very good passer. Hopefully Gabby will find herself somewhere next year where her unique talents( passing, defense, rebounding) will be more utilized. I expect there's some coach out there who would love to have her.

Copper has played all of 3 more minutes than Gabby this year.

The Sky are 3 in the league in team assist/turnover ratio and 2nd in the league in percentage of made field goals that were assisted. I'm not sure what the basis is for calling the Sky a bad passing team.

Gabby was used as a point guard because Jamierra Faulkner was rehabbing an injury and Gabby was a better option than rookie Chloe Jackson. Expect her to transition to playing on the wing more now that Faulkner is available again.

Gabby's Achilles heel continues to be an unreliable three point shot. Copper is not a great shooter but even at 32% she requires some attention at the 3-point line whereas opponents want Gabby to shoot 3s. Having a wing that can't shoot is a major liability at this level. Amber Stocks tried playing her at the 4 last year but WNBA 4s are big. Gabby can't effectively guard folks like A'ja Wilson and Tina Charles night after night. She's simply giving up too much height and mass.

That's what Gabby is right now - jack of all trades, master of none.

Overall, their effectiveness is pretty comparable so I think Gabby and Kahleah having relatively equal minutes totals makes sense.

 

[bballnut90]

I was really surprised Chicago took her as high as they did. KLS is a good player but I dont see how she fits in since the Sky already having a very good wing core of Deshields, Quigley and Williams. I thought Collier was a much better fit for the Sky.

 

[bballnut90]

Maybe the fact that the Sky had a positive experience with one intelligent 3-point shooter who had been well coached and well seasoned in college despite not being overly athletic (Quigley) caused them to make a bet on a younger player (KLS) with that same basic profile. And they may win that bet, although probably not this year.

I also disagree about whether Lou can be a 4 in the WNBA. It should be easier for her to improve her upper body strength (needed for the 4) than to improve her speed and quickness (needed for the 2 or 3). Either way, she has to develop physical skills that she does not currently possess.

I don't see her as a 4...nothing about her game tells me she is capable of being an interior player, nor does she want to be one. KLS is plenty athletic to be an exceptional 2 or 3 in the league. She should watch film of JJ Redick in the NBA and emulate how he constantly moves off screens to get good looks. She has the size, quick release and dead eye accuracy to be a great sniper in the W.

 

[bbsamjj]

Copper has played all of 3 more minutes than Gabby this year.

The Sky are 3 in the league in team assist/turnover ratio and 2nd in the league in percentage of made field goals that were assisted. I'm not sure what the basis is for calling the Sky a bad passing team.

Gabby was used as a point guard because Jamierra Faulkner was rehabbing an injury and Gabby was a better option than rookie Chloe Jackson. Expect her to transition to playing on the wing more now that Faulkner is available again.

Gabby's Achilles heel continues to be an unreliable three point shot. Copper is not a great shooter but even at 32% she requires some attention at the 3-point line whereas opponents want Gabby to shoot 3s. Having a wing that can't shoot is a major liability at this level. Amber Stocks tried playing her at the 4 last year but WNBA 4s are big. Gabby can't effectively guard folks like A'ja Wilson and Tina Charles night after night. She's simply giving up too much height and mass.

That's what Gabby is right now - jack of all trades, master of none.

Overall, their effectiveness is pretty comparable so I think Gabby and Kahleah having relatively equal minutes totals makes sense.

Copper is also much more a slasher to the basket than Gabby, as she's taken nearly double the amount of Its as Williams (and is 3rd on the team in FTA). Gabby averages double the assists of Copper.

 

[boontonbomber]

Copper has played all of 3 more minutes than Gabby this year.

The Sky are 3 in the league in team assist/turnover ratio and 2nd in the league in percentage of made field goals that were assisted. I'm not sure what the basis is for calling the Sky a bad passing team.

Gabby was used as a point guard because Jamierra Faulkner was rehabbing an injury and Gabby was a better option than rookie Chloe Jackson. Expect her to transition to playing on the wing more now that Faulkner is available again.

Gabby's Achilles heel continues to be an unreliable three point shot. Copper is not a great shooter but even at 32% she requires some attention at the 3-point line whereas opponents want Gabby to shoot 3s. Having a wing that can't shoot is a major liability at this level. Amber Stocks tried playing her at the 4 last year but WNBA 4s are big. Gabby can't effectively guard folks like A'ja Wilson and Tina Charles night after night. She's simply giving up too much height and mass.

That's what Gabby is right now - jack of all trades, master of none.

Overall, their effectiveness is pretty comparable so I think Gabby and Kahleah having relatively equal minutes totals makes sense.

ratio skewed by Sloot. 7 players have as many, or more, turnovers as assists.

 

[Dokey]

ratio skewed by Sloot. 7 players have as many, or more, turnovers as assists.

Bad passing team? Well, in watching them play I see a lot of ill conceived passes, leading to turnovers. By that I mean absolutely terrible choices. Sloot gets lots of assists by taking chances, leading to turnovers.

 

[Orangutan]

ratio skewed by Sloot. 7 players have as many, or more, turnovers as assists.

Well naturally having perhaps the best passer in the league on the team helps you have a good passing team. Just as having the best defender in the league is going to help you be a good defensive team.

To get to 7 you have to count sparingly used players like Faulkner, Ndour, and Jackson.

Of the players who have played significant minutes, you have Sloot, Quigley, DeShields, and Gabby in the positive and Dolson (barely), Lavender, Parker, and Copper in the negative.

Player for player they are an average passing team, but the players who are doing most of the ball-handling are good to great in the passing department.

Bad passing team? Well, in watching them play I see a lot of ill conceived passes, leading to turnovers. By that I mean absolutely terrible choices. Sloot gets lots of assists by taking chances, leading to turnovers.

Sloot is 6th in the league in assist/turnover ratio (among players who have played 10 or more games). I would say the rewards generally justify the risks she takes.

 

[Dokey]

In today’s Courant story Wade confirmed why I thought Sky was a bad fit for KLS—a deep roster. She needs a team that can get her a minimum 15 minutes a game in order to develop.

 

[Carnac]

In today’s Courant story Wade confirmed why I thought Sky was a bad fit for KLS—a deep roster. She needs a team that can get her a minimum 15 minutes a game in order to develop.

As Katie Lou Samuelson adjusts to WNBA, there is UConn all around her; Stefanie Dolson, Gabby Williams give Chicago Sky 3 former Huskies

 

[willtalk]

Most players coming into the WNBA face the same issue of whether or not they end up on a team that is right for them. There are so few roster spots that the demand is not on the side of incoming players. KLS has the advantage of being a high pick so she will be allowed a lot of time to produce. Some players end up getting cut and never having the opportunity to prove themselves. For KLS it is a matter of proving herself to get more playing time. For some players, it is a matter of even making the roster. It is very possible, because of the way the WNBA is run, that less talented players might end up on some teams roster while more talented players are cut. It all depends on the team you end up on.

 

[boontonbomber]

Most players coming into the WNBA face the same issue of whether or not they end up on a team that is right for them. There are so few roster spots that the demand is not on the side of incoming players. KLS has the advantage of being a high pick so she will be allowed a lot of time to produce. Some players end up getting cut and never having the opportunity to prove themselves. For KLS it is a matter of proving herself to get more playing time. For some players, it is a matter of even making the roster. It is very possible, because of the way the WNBA is run, that less talented players might end up on some teams roster while more talented players are cut. It all depends on the team you end up on.

but she needs playing time to prove herself. she can play multiple positions, she knows how to play the game, so Wade has to figure out how to get her minutes. good coaches figure out how to give players breaks, while getting other players minutes. not easy; that's one of the reasons there are so few good coaches . at the moment he's wasting her. KLS was aggressive right away yesterday, yet never saw the court again.

 

[Carnac]

Most players coming into the WNBA face the same issue of whether or not they end up on a team that is right for them. There are so few roster spots that the demand is not on the side of incoming players. KLS has the advantage of being a high pick so she will be allowed a lot of time to produce. Some players end up getting cut and never having the opportunity to prove themselves. For KLS it is a matter of proving herself to get more playing time. For some players, it is a matter of even making the roster. It is very possible, because of the way the WNBA is run, that less talented players might end up on some teams roster while more talented players are cut. It all depends on the team you end up on.

Case in point - Courtney Williams was selected eighth overall in the 2016 WNBA Draft by the Phoenix Mercury on April 14, 2016. She was traded to Sun 2 months later in June. She could not get a "sniff" of the court during that time. They gave up on her real quick. Now she's a starter for the Sun.

Rookie All-American Brianna Turner is experiencing that same fate in Phoenix. In the 14 games she was dressed for, she's averaging 5 mpg. She's played 18, 11 & 13 minutes the last 3 games, or her minutes per game average would be much less. She's averaging 1.14 ppg. Think she could have got more minutes with another team?

Collier has played in and started in all 20 of their games. She's played 30+ minutes in 17 of them. As good as Napheesa is, I think there are some teams she could have gone to and spent more time on the bench than on the floor. She got lucky getting drafted by Minnesota. The Sparks, Mystics and Mercury immediately come to mind.

 

[ochoopsfan]

If Collier was taken by Chicago, with the 4th pick, would she be getting as few minutes as Lou (not counting for the time Lou lost to an injury).
When Lou got zero minutes in the 2nd game of the year(Skys first home game) you could tell the coach thought game 2 of the season was a must win, at any or all costs. Lou got hurt a game or two later and it has been catch up since. IMO, this coach is playing for his reputation and all the stuff he said on draft day was BS, or he would have used Lou, a lot more. Hard to believe one of the leaders on UConn, and her BB IQ isnt good enough for more minutes.

 

[Rixxx]

Couple of things: Does everybody agree Napheesa will be behind Maya next year with reduced minutes? Will Maya and Napheesa share minutes next year? Is Maya coming back next year?
I still think Courtney Williams has the same elevation in her jump shot as Diamond, maybe a tad higher.

 

[JoePgh]

Couple of things: Does everybody agree Napheesa will be behind Maya next year with reduced minutes? Will Maya and Napheesa share minutes next year? Is Maya coming back next year?
I still think Courtney Williams has the same elevation in her jump shot as Diamond, maybe a tad higher.

I don't think Maya knows whether Maya is coming back next year. A big reason why she might is that next year is an Olympic year, and she needs to demonstrate that she still has the mojo to make the Olympic team.

If she does, then either Napheesa will play behind her or will get some minutes at the 4, together with Damiras Dantas.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

When Lou got zero minutes in the 2nd game of the year(Skys first home game) you could tell the coach thought game 2 of the season was a must win, at any or all costs. Lou got hurt a game or two later and it has been catch up since. IMO, this coach is playing for his reputation and all the stuff he said on draft day was BS, or he would have used Lou, a lot more. Hard to believe one of the leaders on UConn, and her BB IQ isnt good enough for more minutes.

Or perhaps this coach -- James Wade, in his first WNBA HC position -- is going to bring KLS along slowly. Rookies come straight from college to the W, with no time off. There is going to be an adjustment period, but also a rookie wall/burnout period.

Chicago finished 12-22 in 2017 and 13-21 in 2018, under former HC and GM Amber Stocks. After 20 games in 2019, Chicago is 11-9, with largely the same roster (Jantel Lavender was the only major free agent/trade acquisition, outside of KLS and the draft). After allowing over 90 ppg on 46.2 percent shooting (35.2 percent from three) in 2018, Chicago 's defense is surrendering 80 ppg on 41.0 percent shooting (31.7 percent) this year -- a MAJOR upgrade (and again, largely with the same personnel). Though the defense still has a way to go (Chicago is still 11th in PPG surrendered), Coach Wade has his players making the necessary improvements defensively in order to move up the WNBA standings.

There is no entitlement to minutes/playing time in professional sports. Simply because a rookie -- just over halfway into her first season -- is not earning a lot of minutes does not mean that there is something wrong with the coach.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Rookie All-American Brianna Turner is experiencing that same fate in Phoenix. In the 14 games she was dressed for, she's averaging 5 mpg. She's played 18, 11 & 13 minutes the last 3 games, or her minutes per game average would be much less. She's averaging 1.14 ppg. Think she could have got more minutes with another team?

Fellow rookie Alanna Smith is averaging 7.5 min/game for the Merc. Last year Maria Gulich averaged 5.0 mpg as a rookie for Phoenix before being traded. It appears that is not the franchise to go to if you want a chance to develop as a young post player.

 

[Carnac]

Fellow rookie Alanna Smith is averaging 7.5 min/game for the Merc. Last year Maria Gulich averaged 5.0 mpg as a rookie for Phoenix before being traded. It appears that is not the franchise to go to if you want a chance to develop as a young post player.

In the past, the three hardest rosters for rookies to make were Los Angeles, Phoenix and Minnesota.

 

[nwhoopfan]

In the past, the two hardest rosters for rookies to make were Los Angeles, Phoenix and Minnesota.

Los Angeles, Phoenix, Minnesota. 1...2...

I'm reminded of the great Monty Python sketch about nobody expecting the Spanish Inquisition.