WNBA - Sparks recriminations



Orangutan

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Toler drove Agler out of town and then hired an inferior coach in Fisher. Nneka and Candace have experienced good coaching and knew they weren't getting it.

Candace had been blowing hot and cold all season but you are not winning it all without her.

I'm no fan of Parker but I'm not inclined to blame her here. Hiring Fisher was stupid on its face and Toler acted like it was a stroke of genius. This is the expected result.
 
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TheFarmFan

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Yeesh. I mean, there's no universe where if a white male GM had used that language to address the players, folks wouldn't be calling for his head, or at least for a suspension and fine. Because the crazy part is that she doesn't even deny doing it! I realize there's always context to these things, but I don't see how that didn't cross a line. And this sounds like a very toxic environment, all around.

Mostly, I just feel bad for Nneka. She carries herself with such dignity, grace, and workmanship and is such a role model, but it's hard for her to shine when there's so much louder and distracting nonsense going on around her.
Wow! I'm impressed they took action - to be honest, I was pretty certain nothing was going to happen. The Sparks definitely needed a restart of some kind, because the team culture went into the toilet at the end of the season. Hopefully they can regroup in the offseason, and yeah, find someone to replace Fisher.
 
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I saw this story earlier today and was reminded of the brouhaha a number of years back when Geno basically left Candace Parker off the 2012 US Olympic team.
No doubt she[s special. But special or not she has to play. These are all Professionals, which means they get paid to play and play they should. The GM had the right, maybe duty to chew them out. Play-offs require the best from the best. When you take their money your owe them a full days work.
 
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BTW - I agree on your McCaughtry take. She would fit in nicely with the Sparks. She’s a winner and would be an instant asset to the team and a leader in the clubhouse. Even though her facial expression seldom changes (she’s all business between the lines), I like her. She’s a playmaker that can and will show up in critical situations.
Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
[/QUOTE]
Sage words from a top coach. I too saw the Angel you saw. Collins, Louisville's previous coach, could not handler her. She, when pulled from the game against Uconn, walked all around the side lines to get to the bench--a show of defiance. Walz and Geno straightened her out a bit but her defiance streak is built in and comes out regularly. Really good at times, really bad at others. She is a VOLUME shooter as such she scores a lot but with what kind of percentages?? She's fun to watch at times at others she a spoiled child.
 
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Haha. I never really wanted to like Parker. My perspective of her started with intense dislike and deteriorated from there.
i DIDN't like Parker, lawson, and other U Tenn players--they were that good. I respect talent and Lawson, love that girl, and Parker are talented. I don't like offensive of see me personality that turns me off on Parker but talent she is.
 

CL82

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When Parker was not selected, there was talk that she had done something during the prior world championship to get on the wrong side of Geno.
Yes, there was. Of course there was also talk that the other players didn’t particularly care for her as a teammate. I’m more inclined to believe the latter.

The team that won the gold was a very cohesive group, for what it’s worth. Sometimes chemistry matters, most times actually.
 
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BTW - I agree on your McCaughtry take. She would fit in nicely with the Sparks. She’s a winner and would be an instant asset to the team and a leader in the clubhouse. Even though her facial expression seldom changes (she’s all business between the lines), I like her. She’s a playmaker that can and will show up in critical situations.
Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
[/QUOTE]

Ok, after being coached by Geno, I bet she wished she had gone to UConn instead. Bottom line, Fisher has to go. When Toler’s office was cleaned out, they should have cleaned his out as well. The coach and GM must be on the same page and of the same accord.

Any revamping of the team should begin with a new head coach with a new and different vision and direction. Fisher has to go. He can’t be part of any team revamp or reorganization.

There are lots of qualified veteran and upcoming assistant coaches available for hire, pick one. Hire your GM, and let her/him hire the coach of their choice.
 
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Toler drove Agler out of town and then hired an inferior coach in Fisher. Nneka and Candace have experienced good coaching and knew they weren't getting it.

Candace had been blowing hot and cold all season but you are not winning it all without her.

I'm no fan of Parker but I'm not inclined to blame her here. Hiring Fisher was stupid on its face and Toler acted like it was a stroke of genius. This is the expected result.
Toler’s boss, Holoman, is keeping Fisher. So I suspect he and/or Magic Johnson were the ones who wanted to bring Fisher to the organization in the first place.
 

Orangutan

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Toler’s boss, Holoman, is keeping Fisher. So I suspect he and/or Magic Johnson were the ones who wanted to bring Fisher to the organization in the first place.
Yeah, I always assumed Magic was a big part of it. Plenty of blame to go around with Sparks' management.
 
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Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
Ok, after being coached by Geno, I bet she wished she had gone to UConn instead. Bottom line, Fisher has to go. When Toler’s office was cleaned out, they should have cleaned his out as well. The coach and GM must be on the same page and of the same accord.

Any revamping of the team should begin with a new head coach with a new and different vision and direction. Fisher has to go. He can’t be part of any team revamp or reorganization.

There are lots of qualified veteran and upcoming assistant coaches available for hire, pick one. Hire your GM, and let her/him hire the coach of their choice.
[/QUOTE]
Hey Carnac, what do you think of Fisher's coaching? :rolleyes:
 
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Ok, after being coached by Geno, I bet she wished she had gone to UConn instead. Bottom line, Fisher has to go. When Toler’s office was cleaned out, they should have cleaned his out as well. The coach and GM must be on the same page and of the same accord.

Any revamping of the team should begin with a new head coach with a new and different vision and direction. Fisher has to go. He can’t be part of any team revamp or reorganization.

There are lots of qualified veteran and upcoming assistant coaches available for hire, pick one. Hire your GM, and let her/him hire the coach of their choice.
Hey Carnac, what do you think of Fisher's coaching? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

1570313107552.png
 
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BTW - I agree on your McCaughtry take. She would fit in nicely with the Sparks. She’s a winner and would be an instant asset to the team and a leader in the clubhouse. Even though her facial expression seldom changes (she’s all business between the lines), I like her. She’s a playmaker that can and will show up in critical situations.
Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
[/QUOTE]

If she was to join the Sparks next season, I'm counting on her attitude and demeanor to be "UConn like". ;)
 
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You know they just won it all in 2016!!??
Yes! I know all that. She actually gave a good effort in during the season and the playoff that year. She plays really well when she gives an effort. The problem is that she does not do it all the time. In fact, those days are becoming fewer each year. She really dogged it during the end of last season and the playoffs and she did the same this season except for the first game. Does anyone not wonder why she can never put together two good back to back games? The fact that she has a reputation of not playing well on back to backs says a lot. What other player has ever had that rep.? She does that because she never allows herself to reach a certain level of tired. She is always keeping too much of her energy in reserve and never leaves it all on the court. Really good players do that when circumstances call for it. This sort of attitude will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. And it seems that it has already- prompting Tolars response.
 
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Toler’s boss, Holoman, is keeping Fisher. So I suspect he and/or Magic Johnson were the ones who wanted to bring Fisher to the organization in the first place.
This is the absolute worst news I've heard this year. He needs to go. Let the new GM hire a new coach that she/he is comfortable with, and who he/she will be loyal to. It would not surprise me to hear/read in the next few weeks that Parker has asked to be traded. I believe Parker is under contract through next year. I'm sure there are several teams that would welcome her. The question is what price the Sparks would accept as compensation. No doubt the starting point would be a first round pick, but given her age and recent inability to stay healthy, not to mention her inconsistent motor, may diminish her trade value. Again I reemphasize, Parker can still play!!!

When new GM's are hired by college and pro teams the incumbent coaches are sometimes on a short leash, unless they are an established long tenured coach.

That dynamic is in place at USC now. A.D. Lynn Swan resigned recently. Head football coach Todd Helton is on the "hot seat", and is right behind him. The new AD is going to want his/her coach in place. There’s a contingent of boosters of the cardinal and gold that would like to see Helton replaced.

Lynn Swann's resignation at USC was inevitable culmination of controversial tenure as AD
 
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bballnut90

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This is the absolute worst news I've heard this year. He needs to go. Let the new GM hire a new coach that she/he is comfortable with, and who will be loyal to. It would not surprise me to hear/read in the next few weeks that Parker has asked to be traded. I'm sure there are several teams that would welcome her. The question is what price the Sparks would ask as compensation.

When new GM's are hired by college and pro teams the incumbent coaches are usually on a very short leash, unless they are an established long tenured coach.

That dynamic is in place at USC now. A.D. Lynn Swan resigned recently. Head football coach Todd Helton is on the "hot seat", and is right behind him.

Lynn Swann's resignation at USC was inevitable culmination of controversial tenure as AD
I wonder how much trade value CP has at this point. Pretty sure she's going to be 34 next season and she just didnt play well this year. Not sure how much of that was injury related vs if she's slowing down. If this year was a fluke she could still be a 1st Team All-WNBA player next year and really elevate a program like the Sky to become a strong title favorite. Question is, how much are teams willing to trade for her and is it worth the risk?

Also in somewhat similar spots in terms of declining play are Charles, Hayes and McCoughtry. All 3 are on awful teams and had bad years (or missed the full season) which begs the question, are they slowing down or was it just a fluke season?
 
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I wonder how much trade value CP has at this point. Pretty sure she's going to be 34 next season and she just didnt play well this year. Not sure how much of that was injury related vs if she's slowing down. If this year was a fluke she could still be a 1st Team All-WNBA player next year and really elevate a program like the Sky to become a strong title favorite. Question is, how much are teams willing to trade for her and is it worth the risk?

Also in somewhat similar spots in terms of declining play are Charles, Hayes and McCoughtry. All 3 are on awful teams and had bad years (or missed the full season) which begs the question, are they slowing down or was it just a fluke season?
A second round pick for most teams, depending on need. I would think she would be worth a 1st round pick in the eyes of a GM that had a glaring need for a BIG. A first round pick is where the Sparks will start the bidding. If they lose her, they want as much as they can get for her.

She's 34. Her best days are behind her. Plus we know that she has a tendency to just go thru the motions at times. She can still play, and play hard when she wants to. I've seen her dominate a game tip to buzzer. She can't go to just any team. The chemistry has to be right. If Fisher stays, some attitudes and perceptions will have to change. I'll bet she goes. Like B.B. King said: "The thrill is gone". :confused:
 
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bballnut90

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A second round pick at best. No way is she worth a 1st round pick, although that's probably where the bidding price begins. She's 34. Her best days are behind her. Plus we know that she has a tendency to just go thru the motions at times. She can be moody, and she gets hurt a lot now-a-days. She can still play, and play hard when she wants to. I've seen her dominate a game tip to buzzer. She can't go to just any team. The chemistry has to be right. If Fisher stays, I'll bet she goes. Like BB King said: "The thrill is gone". :confused:
Lol you're for sure letting your bias show. She's a lot more valuable than youre giving her credit for. We don't know if her best days are behind her or not, she was injured this year and never really got into the swing of things like she has every other season as a pro. She's one year removed from averaging 18/8/5. Adding Candace could elevate a lot of teams to being a strong title threat for the next few seasons.
 
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Lol you're for sure letting your bias show. She's a lot more valuable than youre giving her credit for. We don't know if her best days are behind her or not, she was injured this year and never really got into the swing of things like she has every other season as a pro. She's one year removed from averaging 18/8/5. Adding Candace could elevate a lot of teams to being a strong title threat for the next few seasons.
If you think she can help your team bring at least one championship, she’s worth at least a first round pick, especially in next year’s draft.

It took 4 players to secure Cambage in a trade, and her outlook is shaky past 2020.
 

bballnut90

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If you think she can help your team bring at least one championship, she’s worth at least a first round qpick, especially in next year’s draft.

It took 4 players to secure Cambage in a trade, and her outlook is shaky past 2020.
Agreed. And considering the 2020 and 2021 drafts are looking pretty weak, any pick outside the top 4-5 really isn't worth much. 2nd round picks are basically worthless.
 
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