WNBA - Sparks recriminations
- Thread starter caseyb7
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Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
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Sage words from a top coach. I too saw the Angel you saw. Collins, Louisville's previous coach, could not handler her. She, when pulled from the game against Uconn, walked all around the side lines to get to the bench--a show of defiance. Walz and Geno straightened her out a bit but her defiance streak is built in and comes out regularly. Really good at times, really bad at others. She is a VOLUME shooter as such she scores a lot but with what kind of percentages?? She's fun to watch at times at others she a spoiled child.
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The ONLY Qualification any player needs to see love on this board is to play for UCONN--Read the title at the very top:: UCONN WOMEN'S BASKETBALLThat's all the qualification you need according to many of the threads I see on this board. Or maybe that only counts if you played at UConn...
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i DIDN't like Parker, lawson, and other U Tenn players--they were that good. I respect talent and Lawson, love that girl, and Parker are talented. I don't like offensive of see me personality that turns me off on Parker but talent she is.
CL82
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Yes, there was. Of course there was also talk that the other players didn’t particularly care for her as a teammate. I’m more inclined to believe the latter.
The team that won the gold was a very cohesive group, for what it’s worth. Sometimes chemistry matters, most times actually.
Carnac
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Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
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Ok, after being coached by Geno, I bet she wished she had gone to UConn instead. Bottom line, Fisher has to go. When Toler’s office was cleaned out, they should have cleaned his out as well. The coach and GM must be on the same page and of the same accord.
Any revamping of the team should begin with a new head coach with a new and different vision and direction. Fisher has to go. He can’t be part of any team revamp or reorganization.
There are lots of qualified veteran and upcoming assistant coaches available for hire, pick one. Hire your GM, and let her/him hire the coach of their choice.
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Toler’s boss, Holoman, is keeping Fisher. So I suspect he and/or Magic Johnson were the ones who wanted to bring Fisher to the organization in the first place.
Orangutan
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Yeah, I always assumed Magic was a big part of it. Plenty of blame to go around with Sparks' management.
donalddoowop
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Ok, after being coached by Geno, I bet she wished she had gone to UConn instead. Bottom line, Fisher has to go. When Toler’s office was cleaned out, they should have cleaned his out as well. The coach and GM must be on the same page and of the same accord.
Any revamping of the team should begin with a new head coach with a new and different vision and direction. Fisher has to go. He can’t be part of any team revamp or reorganization.
There are lots of qualified veteran and upcoming assistant coaches available for hire, pick one. Hire your GM, and let her/him hire the coach of their choice.
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Hey Carnac, what do you think of Fisher's coaching?
Carnac
That venerable sage from the west
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Carnac
That venerable sage from the west
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Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
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If she was to join the Sparks next season, I'm counting on her attitude and demeanor to be "UConn like".
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Yes! I know all that. She actually gave a good effort in during the season and the playoff that year. She plays really well when she gives an effort. The problem is that she does not do it all the time. In fact, those days are becoming fewer each year. She really dogged it during the end of last season and the playoffs and she did the same this season except for the first game. Does anyone not wonder why she can never put together two good back to back games? The fact that she has a reputation of not playing well on back to backs says a lot. What other player has ever had that rep.? She does that because she never allows herself to reach a certain level of tired. She is always keeping too much of her energy in reserve and never leaves it all on the court. Really good players do that when circumstances call for it. This sort of attitude will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. And it seems that it has already- prompting Tolars response.
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Carnac
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This is the absolute worst news I've heard this year. He needs to go. Let the new GM hire a new coach that she/he is comfortable with, and who he/she will be loyal to. It would not surprise me to hear/read in the next few weeks that Parker has asked to be traded. I believe Parker is under contract through next year. I'm sure there are several teams that would welcome her. The question is what price the Sparks would accept as compensation. No doubt the starting point would be a first round pick, but given her age and recent inability to stay healthy, not to mention her inconsistent motor, may diminish her trade value. Again I reemphasize, Parker can still play!!!
When new GM's are hired by college and pro teams the incumbent coaches are sometimes on a short leash, unless they are an established long tenured coach.
That dynamic is in place at USC now. A.D. Lynn Swan resigned recently. Head football coach Todd Helton is on the "hot seat", and is right behind him. The new AD is going to want his/her coach in place. There’s a contingent of boosters of the cardinal and gold that would like to see Helton replaced.
Lynn Swann's resignation at USC was inevitable culmination of controversial tenure as AD
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bballnut90
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I wonder how much trade value CP has at this point. Pretty sure she's going to be 34 next season and she just didnt play well this year. Not sure how much of that was injury related vs if she's slowing down. If this year was a fluke she could still be a 1st Team All-WNBA player next year and really elevate a program like the Sky to become a strong title favorite. Question is, how much are teams willing to trade for her and is it worth the risk?
Also in somewhat similar spots in terms of declining play are Charles, Hayes and McCoughtry. All 3 are on awful teams and had bad years (or missed the full season) which begs the question, are they slowing down or was it just a fluke season?
Carnac
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Carnac
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A second round pick for most teams, depending on need. I would think she would be worth a 1st round pick in the eyes of a GM that had a glaring need for a BIG. A first round pick is where the Sparks will start the bidding. If they lose her, they want as much as they can get for her.
She's 34. Her best days are behind her. Plus we know that she has a tendency to just go thru the motions at times. She can still play, and play hard when she wants to. I've seen her dominate a game tip to buzzer. She can't go to just any team. The chemistry has to be right. If Fisher stays, some attitudes and perceptions will have to change. I'll bet she goes. Like B.B. King said: "The thrill is gone".
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That was then, this is now. People do change.
bballnut90
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A second round pick at best. No way is she worth a 1st round pick, although that's probably where the bidding price begins. She's 34. Her best days are behind her. Plus we know that she has a tendency to just go thru the motions at times. She can be moody, and she gets hurt a lot now-a-days. She can still play, and play hard when she wants to. I've seen her dominate a game tip to buzzer. She can't go to just any team. The chemistry has to be right. If Fisher stays, I'll bet she goes. Like BB King said: "The thrill is gone".
Lol you're for sure letting your bias show. She's a lot more valuable than youre giving her credit for. We don't know if her best days are behind her or not, she was injured this year and never really got into the swing of things like she has every other season as a pro. She's one year removed from averaging 18/8/5. Adding Candace could elevate a lot of teams to being a strong title threat for the next few seasons.
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If you think she can help your team bring at least one championship, she’s worth at least a first round pick, especially in next year’s draft.
It took 4 players to secure Cambage in a trade, and her outlook is shaky past 2020.
bballnut90
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Agreed. And considering the 2020 and 2021 drafts are looking pretty weak, any pick outside the top 4-5 really isn't worth much. 2nd round picks are basically worthless.
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I couldn't disagree with you more on this! What is it about wanting to see the livelihood of somebody taken away because of something they said or wrote? Cancel culture is out of control in this country! The racial epithet that Toler used, has been used by the same players she was addressing thousands of times before! I'm sorry, I just don't agree with ruining somebodies life/career over something like this.
Carnac
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I said that. My take is that her and Fisher may no longer be compatible. I also said she call still play. At 34, she's not going to play like she did 10 years ago. Every year, players have to prove they belong on a roster. Every year there are 21/22 year old rookies coming into the league try to take your job.
If YOU think her best days are still in front of her, OK. I don't. I'm not suggesting that your take or opinion is wrong. Parker is a leader on the team. If she and Fisher have issues, that is bad MOJO/chemistry can can spread to the rest of the team. It's up to them to work it out.
I attended about 10 Sparks games this season. I saw things you don't see on TV. At times I was impressed with Parker, other times I was not. Ogwumike and Chelsea Gray (and a few others) hustled and played hard all the time. I can't say the same about Parker. Sometimes she appeared to be fully engaged, other times, not. That is what I saw in person!! Not what I read, or someone commented about. I don't dislike Parker. I have nothing against her. If she's on the team next year, I'll root and cheer for her as much as I do for other players and wish her the best, if not....................
I could name players that give maximum effort whenever they are on the floor i.e., Nneka, EDD, Diggins-Smith, Alissa Thomas, Jonquel Jones, Courtney Williams, Jazmine Thomas, Napheesa Collier, Chelsea Gray, Maya Moore, etc. In your opinion, does Parker belong in this group?
I'm going to continue to attend games and root for the team whether she's on it or not. I was a Sparks fan BEFORE she joined the team in 2008.
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Carnac
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I understand your disagreement. A poll on the ESPN website showed that 57% of the people that took the poll also agreed she had to go. So it's not just me. If you read through this thread, you'll find several other posters are of the same opinion. More importantly, the owner of the club ALSO agreed and thought she needed to go.
I posted my thoughts. Since I'm not the owner of the Sparks, it had no effect on her retaining her job, or being terminated. I respect your opinion. I'm always interested in reading your posts, but in THIS case, I don't agree with you.
"Several Sparks players told ESPN the speech made them feel uncomfortable and showed "total disrespect" as Toler called them "m-----f-----s" and suggested she'd replace them next year if they got swept by the Sun.
"You can't say that in 2019," one player told ESPN. Past Sparks players interviewed by ESPN said they'd heard Toler use language like that before, so they weren't shocked to hear about the nature of her speech after Game 2. "Penny is competitive," one former player said. "But it's definitely not OK to talk like that."
"Some around the team have expressed discomfort with the current environment. [Editor's note: No current or former players agreed to be identified in on-the-record comments for this story].
"I won't go back there until the culture changes," a former player said. "It's unprofessional."
"However, no one is above criticism or feedback, and I am committed to ensuring my words consistently reflect the Sparks values of a productive and positive working environment moving forward.
I will take this as a learning opportunity and grow from this and make sure that not only myself, but my staff, team and the entire organization is cognizant of the language we use in the locker room." ~ Eric Holoman, Sparks managing partner and governor."
She had to go!! As a executive vice president and general manager, she was held to a higher standard than her players or the other subordinates in the office. She was the face of the organization. She represented the organization at league and corporate meetings/functions. She crossed the line. Sorry, no excuses.
If you're in a position of power and leadership, and you prove to your peers and your superiors time and again that you are not qualified to hold that position (the Peter principle), you should be removed. People are fired everyday for something they say or write if it reflects negatively on the company/organization.
Can a company fire you for what you say on Facebook?
So the short answer is yes, in most circumstances an employer may fire you for what you write and say online and off. Jun 25, 2017
I had a government job before I retired. We had two notebook binders full of rules, regulations, policies and procedures that we were ALL expected to know and conduct (work) ourselves by.
I guarantee you, there where things mandated in black and white that an employee could not do while on duty, and/or while they were "physically"on their property. This included posting things that were in direct opposition to the department's reputation or standing in the community on social media.
I knew what those things were. Since I liked my job and wanted to keep it, I didn't engage in any restricted activity. Simple as that. I didn't feel it was in MY best interest to "test the waters".
Toler is not the first nor will she be the last executive to be terminated for something said or posted on social media. It happens in politics all the time. Remember, the ultimate decision to fire her was not mine. I merely forecasted it, and totally agree after the fact. It had to be done.
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Something about the LA chemistry on that team. I feel like after Odyssey left she was happier and playing better. I want them to trade brown badly.
I was a big Sparks fan because of Sims and now I have moved on. However, you do notice how Parker doesn't always give her 100% and if you have watched her the last several seasons you can obviously see it.
I was a big Sparks fan because of Sims and now I have moved on. However, you do notice how Parker doesn't always give her 100% and if you have watched her the last several seasons you can obviously see it.
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bballnut90
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I said that. My take is that her and Fisher may no longer be compatible. I also said she call still play. At 34, she's not going to play like she did 10 years ago. Every year, players have to prove they belong on a roster. Every year there are 22 year old rookies coming into the league try to take your job. If YOU think her best days are still in front of her, OK. I don't. I'm not suggesting that your take or opinion is wrong. Parker is a leader on the team. If she and Fisher have issues, that is bad MOJO/chemistry can can spread to the rest of the team. It's up to them to work it out.
I attended about 10 Sparks games this season. I saw things you don't see on TV. At times I was impressed with Parker, other times I was not. Ogwumike and Chelsea Gray (and a few others) hustled and played hard all the time. I can't say the same about Parker. That is what I saw, not what I read, or someone commented about. I don't dislike Parker. I have nothing against her. If she on the team next year, I'll root for her and wish her the best, if not.....
I'm going to continue to attend games and root for the team whether she's on it or not. I was a Sparks fan BEFORE she joined the team.
Her trade value is worth far more than a worthless 2nd round draft pick.
Carnac
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You could be right, we’ll see. I suggested that as the position of the league as a whole. I said there are 1-2 teams that might surrender their 1st round pick for her. There are teams that would not because of lack of need and/or questionable effort concerns. I’m interested to see how this chemistry issue works out. Does she and Fisher patch up their differences and reach a mutual understanding, or does she ask for a trade?
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And UConn won it all in 2016/15/14/13.
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Not sure what that has to do with the WNBA or the Sparks but okay
triaddukefan
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And you know this how?
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You made the "won it in 2016" comment as if that was a factor. My comment was only to point out that no one is picking UConn to win the title this , despite what they did in the past. No big deal.
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