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WNBA - Sparks recriminations

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caseyb7

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ESPN is reporting negatively on the Sparks team harmony contributing to their WNBA playoffs exit.

Talent laden team, but reminder that coaching & chemistry count big as well.

Something UConn seemed to have excelled at, although I still want another big.

www.espn.com

Racial epithets, a star benched and a coach questioned: Inside the L.A. Sparks' chaotic finish

L.A. was hitting its stride but then got swept. Did an obscenity-laced speech by Penny Toler impact Derek Fisher's decision to sit Candace Parker?
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
I’m a Sparks fan. It’s time to clean house. New GM, new coach, and release the ineffective/disgruntled players at the discretion of the new coach and GM. At the moment, the Sparks team chemistry is not cohesive.

Based on these revelations, I’d be very surprised and disappointed if Toler is retained. You don’t disrespect your players or your position like that and expect them to respect you or the organization that tolerates/endorses that kind of behavior by its GM.

Time for the franchise to move on under new front office management. I was never happy with Fisher’s hiring. :mad: The Sparks fan base will welcome and support whatever team they put on the floor next year. ;)
 
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The Sparks had a really good season . Toler made a mistake move on -we all do. Candace is still a super. One of the greatest of all time. The Sparks dealt with a lot of injuries and off court issues. We need to go after Angel Mccoughtry.
 
GameReadyGC said:
The Sparks had a really good season . Toler made a mistake move on -we all do. Candace is still a super. One of the greatest of all time. The Sparks dealt with a lot of injuries and off court issues. We need to go after Angel Mccoughtry.
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Apparently she got fired.
 
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As well she should. Anything else would have been hypocrisy. Imagine if Auriemma used the same language to harangue his players.
 
GameReadyGC said:
The Sparks had a really good season . Toler made a mistake move on -we all do.
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If Tolar were not a black woman, how many nano secnds would it have taken to fire a non-black female GM? Yeah, a actually picosecond. or less and media would be en fuego!
 
vtcwbuff said:
As well she should. Anything else would have been hypocrisy. Imagine if Auriemma used the same language to harangue his players.
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As a Caucasian male, Geno would have been in much deeper ___t, had he used that particularly offensive name in reference to women of color. As I understand it, Toler, an African-American woman, has used that expression before to fire up her team.

The problem is that the world is changing, and what might have been acceptable in years past is no longer acceptable. Coaches and team executives must be cognizant of those societal changes.

Some coaches like Geno have changed with the times. Coaches like Woody Hayes & Bobby Knight were unable to change, so they ended up being run out of tOSU & Indiana respectively for mistreating players.
 
oldude said:
I saw this story earlier today and was reminded of the brouhaha a number of years back when Geno basically left Candace Parker off the 2012 US Olympic team.
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In fairness, Geno did not leave anyone off the Olympic team. He was not on the committee that made the decision. Yes he had input. As did the rest of Team USA. But ultimately it was the committee who decided... ;)
 
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EricLA said:
In fairness, Geno did not leave anyone off the Olympic team. He was not on the committee that made the decision. Yes he had input. As did the rest of Team USA. But ultimately it was the committee who decided... ;)
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Yes it was the committee....;)

Obviously, if Geno wanted Parker on the team I highly suspect the committee would have found a spot for her. When Parker was not selected, there was talk that she had done something during the prior world championship to get on the wrong side of Geno.

Parker’s fans, particularly the ones from Knoxville, were vehement in their criticism of Geno, especially considering that Stewie made the team as the youngest player selected. To Geno’s credit, for one of the few times in his life, he chose not to address any specific controversy concerning Parker.

Now Parker has a second coach in Derek Fisher that chose not to play her. The fact that her prior game performances vs the Sun had been mediocre at best seems not to matter to Parker and her supporters. To Derek Fisher’s credit he chose not to address any specific controversy concerning Parker.
 
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oldude said:
Yes it was the committee....;)

Obviously, if Geno wanted Parker on the team I highly suspect the committee would have found a spot for her. When Parker was not selected, there was talk that she had done something during the prior world championship to get on the wrong side of Geno.

Parker’s fans, particularly the ones from Knoxville, were vehement in their criticism of Geno, especially considering that Stewie made the team as the youngest player selected. To Geno’s credit, for one of the few times in his life, he chose not to address any specific controversy concerning Parker.

Now Parker has a second coach in Derek Fisher that chose not to play her. The fact that her prior game performances vs the Sun had been mediocre at best seems not to matter to Parker and her supporters. To Derek Fisher’s credit he chose not to address any specific controversy concerning Parker.
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Hopefully people are seeing and sensing the pattern. Geno took a lot of heat back when she was left off the team, and it was incredibly unfair. The orange patrol never cared much about the truth when it came to Geno and UCONN.
 
GameReadyGC said:
The Sparks had a really good season . Toler made a mistake move on -we all do. Candace is still a super. One of the greatest of all time. The Sparks dealt with a lot of injuries and off court issues. We need to go after Angel Mccoughtry.
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I hear what you’re saying, but sometimes it’s not that simple to just move on. THIS is one of those times. People have been terminated (or asked to resign) from their jobs because of something they said verbally or something they posted on social media. Toler was out of line. Way out of line. Simply put, Toler’s mouth wrote a check her a** couldn’t cash.

Toler has since been terminated. She learned a very valuable lesson Friday. A lesson she should have already learned and acknowledged as a high ranking officer in the corporate world. She had been the Sparks GM for 19 years. Obviously she had become very comfortable and secure in her position, and thought she could get away with that type of "unprofessional" demeanor. It's been reported that this was not the first time she used that type of language in a mixed sitting. She was wrong.

People being fired for saying things they should not have said goes way back. If you are old enough to remember Jimmy “The Greek” Snyder, you’ll remember he was terminated from his on air studio analyst job at CBS on their Sunday morning NFL pregame show in January 1988 because of an observation he made about black athletes that didn’t go over very well.

JIMMY THE GREEK' FIRED BY CBS FOR HIS REMARKS

BTW - I agree on your McCaughtry take. She would fit in nicely with the Sparks. She’s a winner and would be an instant asset to the team and a leader in the clubhouse. Even though her facial expression seldom changes (she’s all business between the lines), I like her. She’s a playmaker that can and will show up in critical situations.
 
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They need to get rid of Parker. Unless they do that the Sparks will not ever win a championship. She loafs and coasts most games. You can not have that kind of influence on the other players, because it will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. Toler certainly was one of the problems with the team so no great loss. However, I believe that Parker is another. Geno certainly knew what he was doing. I wanted to like Parker and my perspective of her started with a clean slate. Still, over time I have come to see that people's criticism of her was not without warrant.
 
willtalk said:
They need to get rid of Parker. Unless they do that the Sparks will not ever win a championship. She loafs and coasts most games. You can not have that kind of influence on the other players, because it will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. Toler certainly was one of the problems with the team so no great loss. However, I believe that Parker is another. Geno certainly knew what he was doing. I wanted to like Parker and my perspective of her started with a clean slate. Still, over time I have come to see that people's criticism of her was not without warrant.
[/QUOT

You know she won a couple of championships!!??
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willtalk said:
They need to get rid of Parker. Unless they do that the Sparks will not ever win a championship. She loafs and coasts most games. You can not have that kind of influence on the other players, because it will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. Toler certainly was one of the problems with the team so no great loss. However, I believe that Parker is another. Geno certainly knew what he was doing. I wanted to like Parker and my perspective of her started with a clean slate. Still, over time I have come to see that people's criticism of her was not without warrant.
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You know they just won it all in 2016!!??
 
willtalk said:
They need to get rid of Parker. Unless they do that the Sparks will not ever win a championship. She loafs and coasts most games. You can not have that kind of influence on the other players, because it will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. Toler certainly was one of the problems with the team so no great loss. However, I believe that Parker is another. Geno certainly knew what he was doing. I wanted to like Parker and my perspective of her started with a clean slate. Still, over time I have come to see that people's criticism of her was not without warrant.
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Haha. I never really wanted to like Parker. My perspective of her started with intense dislike and deteriorated from there.
 
willtalk said:
They need to get rid of Parker. Unless they do that the Sparks will not ever win a championship. She loafs and coasts most games. You can not have that kind of influence on the other players, because it will eventually bleed down to the rest of the team. Toler certainly was one of the problems with the team so no great loss. However, I believe that Parker is another. Geno certainly knew what he was doing. I wanted to like Parker and my perspective of her started with a clean slate. Still, over time I have come to see that people's criticism of her was not without warrant.
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They finished 4 games ahead of Seattle used excuses of Parker, Beard, and Williams missing games. Sue missed the entire year 34 games, so did the best in the game today Stewie, Loyd missed 7 and was a shell of herself this year. Seattle didn't make excuses.
 
LA seems like a mess right now. Getting rid of Toler was probably the right call. Curious to see how they handle Fisher going forward. The team had a good record and had some good moments, but based on this interview it sounds like the players don't have a ton of confidence or faith in the way Fisher led his team. His hiring didn't seem to make a ton of sense to me considering he:
1. Has never coached women's basketball
2. Has never been involved in women's basketball
3. Had an abysmal coaching record prior to being brought on
4. doesn't have any credentials besides playing the sport

I'm sure coaching Parker isn't a walk in the park but the way his players apparently feel about him combined with him giving up on the team midway through game 3 are two bad signs IMO. LA has good talent and from what I can tell, the players like each other since the core of Beard/Parker/Nneka/Gray have stuck together for 4 years. I'm guessing either Fisher goes or a lot of his core nucleus leaves if he returns and LA is a bottom feeder next year.
 
bballnut90 said:
4. doesn't have any credentials besides playing the sport
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That's all the qualification you need according to many of the threads I see on this board. Or maybe that only counts if you played at UConn...:rolleyes:
 
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BTW - I agree on your McCaughtry take. She would fit in nicely with the Sparks. She’s a winner and would be an instant asset to the team and a leader in the clubhouse. Even though her facial expression seldom changes (she’s all business between the lines), I like her. She’s a playmaker that can and will show up in critical situations.
[/QUOTE]

Carnac, when McCaughtry was at L'ville she was a real B--tch to her teammates and new coach Jeff Walz had a low-light tape made of 1 hour of her yelling at teammates, etc. and had her watch it! Her behavior changed instantly!
When the committee didn't pick Parker because of HER attitude both Stewie & McCaughtry made the USA team!
She loved Geno as a coach and she made sure to play exactly as he coached them! Her attitude was "UCONN-like"! She said several times she loved how he was so demanding of the players!
McCaughtry is too good for the Star-struck Sparks keep her in Atlanta!
 
Toler drove Agler out of town and then hired an inferior coach in Fisher. Nneka and Candace have experienced good coaching and knew they weren't getting it.

Candace had been blowing hot and cold all season but you are not winning it all without her.

I'm no fan of Parker but I'm not inclined to blame her here. Hiring Fisher was stupid on its face and Toler acted like it was a stroke of genius. This is the expected result.
 
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TheFarmFan said:
Yeesh. I mean, there's no universe where if a white male GM had used that language to address the players, folks wouldn't be calling for his head, or at least for a suspension and fine. Because the crazy part is that she doesn't even deny doing it! I realize there's always context to these things, but I don't see how that didn't cross a line. And this sounds like a very toxic environment, all around.

Mostly, I just feel bad for Nneka. She carries herself with such dignity, grace, and workmanship and is such a role model, but it's hard for her to shine when there's so much louder and distracting nonsense going on around her.
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Wow! I'm impressed they took action - to be honest, I was pretty certain nothing was going to happen. The Sparks definitely needed a restart of some kind, because the team culture went into the toilet at the end of the season. Hopefully they can regroup in the offseason, and yeah, find someone to replace Fisher.
 
oldude said:
I saw this story earlier today and was reminded of the brouhaha a number of years back when Geno basically left Candace Parker off the 2012 US Olympic team.
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No doubt she[s special. But special or not she has to play. These are all Professionals, which means they get paid to play and play they should. The GM had the right, maybe duty to chew them out. Play-offs require the best from the best. When you take their money your owe them a full days work.
 
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