WNBA Finals - Sun v. Aces

[cancontent]

Is it time to recognize the Sun are missing "something" that could push them over the edge? Their core is very good and played together for years but maybe they need a bit of a shake up. They've been achingly close but haven't gotten over the hump.

For the Aces it (likely) took a coaching change to push them to this point. It also helps that Gray and Plum have grown into some of the best in the game. Do the Sun have anyone with that kind of potential in waiting?

Just a random question.

Fair questions to ask. I agree that guard play may be the area they need to look at.

Coach Miller has stated bringing back Courtney Williams was important for the roster. In some areas, this has paid off for them. But like others are saying, the depth at this position doesn't seem to be enough at the moment.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

They are missing truly elite guard play. They are missing Jasmine Thomas, but I'm not sure she would have made a difference versus the Aces. The Aces have 4 All-Star starters. Bonner hasn't played well so far, and they can't have her play bad if they want to win. The front court rotation of J Jones, Thomas, and B Jones is very good, but their guards can't compete against the Aces. Gray is too big and physical and playing at a high level. Plum had a good game 2, and should continue to attack. Young plays good defense, and has shown she can step up the scoring if needed. Wilson is of course a beast, and she adapted Thomas' defense in game 2.

I posted last year that Briann January wasn't a good enough 2 guard to win a title (even though she is a fine player) and the team picked up C Williams but lost J Thomas to an ACL.

Would it be worth considering moving one of the frontcourt players for a better guard? Their rotation is outstanding but maybe a change is needed?

 

[Billineckz]

I posted last year that Briann January wasn't a good enough 2 guard to win a title (even though she is a fine player) and the team picked up C Williams but lost J Thomas to an ACL.

Would it be worth considering moving one of the frontcourt players for a better guard? Their rotation is outstanding but maybe a change is needed?

No way. Losing your starting PG is a Major loss for any team. My question is, why do people think the series is over?

 

[Billineckz]

Is it time to recognize the Sun are missing "something" that could push them over the edge? Their core is very good and played together for years but maybe they need a bit of a shake up. They've been achingly close but haven't gotten over the hump.

For the Aces it (likely) took a coaching change to push them to this point. It also helps that Gray and Plum have grown into some of the best in the game. Do the Sun have anyone with that kind of potential in waiting?

Just a random question.

Coaching change? Hard to win with your starting PG on the bench injured. Is the series over? Vegas won their 2 games at home.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Coaching change? Hard to win with your starting PG on the bench injured. Is the series over? Vegas won their 2 games at home.

I didn't say the Sun needed a coaching change, just provided an example of how a change could have contributed to Vegas getting over the edge where they are on the cusp of a title.

You are correct the series is far from over and CT could still win. I'm just thinking out loud this morning.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

No way. Losing your starting PG is a Major loss for any team. My question is, why do people think the series is over?

It's never over until the final buzzer sounds, but it definitely feels like this series is over. Vegas hasn't been great at home this season and seems to play better on the road, missing out on those first two games is a huge hole they dug themselves into.

Right now the Sun is getting both outcoached and outplayed by the Aces and they aren't showing the same heart as them either. The only thing the Sun have going for them is that they are 3-0 in an elimination games in this playoffs. It just seems highly unlikely that the Sun can keep up with the Aces offensively for 3 games in a row.

 

[Billineckz]

It's never over until the final buzzer sounds, but it definitely feels like this series is over. Vegas hasn't been great at home this season and seems to play better on the road, missing out on those first two games is a huge hole they dug themselves into.

Right now the Sun is getting both outcoached and outplayed by the Aces and they aren't showing the same heart as them either. The only thing the Sun have going for them is that they are 3-0 in an elimination games in this playoffs. It just seems highly unlikely that the Sun can keep up with the Aces offensively for 3 games in a row.

The team shooting a dismal percentage from the floor and FT line doesn't seem to reflect poor coaching to me. Throw in Chelsey Gray and it's a rough road.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

The team shooting a dismal percentage from the floor and FT line doesn't seem to reflect poor coaching to me. Throw in Chelsey Gray and it's a rough road.

I think Curt hasn't adjusted for Vegas well at all. He did pretty decent in the first game but he had no answer in the second. He's allowed for Vegas players to be able to get high percentage shots on their dominant side throughout the game.

Also some of the decision making has been questionable. Hiedeman guarding Chelsea Gray should never be a thing or continuing to allow Plum to cook Courtney with no adjustments isn't ideal either.

I don't think he's a bad coach by any means but I think he's just getting outcoached by a more prepared coach who has a team that has bought into her.

 

[nwhoopfan]

If you mean the Finals (Sun vs. Aces), I think Wilson has been the dominant force thus far. If one was to look at the entire playoffs, I'd point to Gray.

Yes, the award is for Finals MVP, not playoff MVP. I agree, if you are looking at Round 1 and 2 it's Gray hands down, but in the Finals I'd lean toward Wilson.

 

[Billineckz]

I think Curt hasn't adjusted for Vegas well at all. He did pretty decent in the first game but he had no answer in the second. He's allowed for Vegas players to be able to get high percentage shots on their dominant side throughout the game.

Also some of the decision making has been questionable. Hiedeman guarding Chelsea Gray should never be a thing or continuing to allow Plum to cook Courtney with no adjustments isn't ideal either.

I don't think he's a bad coach by any means but I think he's just getting outcoached by a more prepared coach who has a team that has bought into her.

Well, there ain't no Gabby William's or Alana Beard's coming off the Sun bench. And coach doesn't look like he can guard anyone. What's you going to do?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Also some of the decision making has been questionable. Hiedeman guarding Chelsea Gray should never be a thing or continuing to allow Plum to cook Courtney with no adjustments isn't ideal either.

What are the options though? Thomas had some success defending Gray, but she also did the best job of defending Wilson in Game 1. She can't guard both. I guess you could try to use Bonner's length on Gray, but then Young should be able to overpower either Heideman or Williams. And of course that still leaves the problem of Plum, if she's driving to the rim instead of settling for 3s. Seems like no matter what the Sun try, there will be at least 1 matchup problem for the Aces to exploit. They could try some zone to clog up the key like the Aces are doing, but daring Vegas to shoot 3s doesn't seem like a great idea. They were ice cold in Game 2, seems like they are due to bust out.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

What are the options though? Thomas had some success defending Gray, but she also did the best job of defending Wilson in Game 1. She can't guard both. I guess you could try to use Bonner's length on Gray, but then Young should be able to overpower either Heideman or Williams. And of course that still leaves the problem of Plum, if she's driving to the rim instead of settling for 3s. Seems like no matter what the Sun try, there will be at least 1 matchup problem for the Aces to exploit. They could try some zone to clog up the key like the Aces are doing, but daring Vegas to shoot 3s doesn't seem like a great idea. They were ice cold in Game 2, seems like they are due to bust out.

I personally would have put Bonner on Gray. Putting smaller guards on her like Hiedeman or Williams is basically an open look to the basket for her. The two most consistent players leading into the finals was Wilson and Gray. The goal should be to make those two earn all their points and have the other players step up.

Young and Plum are great players but I would rather force them to beat CT given their lack of consistency in the playoffs, rather than give the hottest shooting player in the playoffs free shots. Young's unwillingness to assert herself at times and Plum recent shooting woes would make that decision easier to try Bonner on Gray and put the smaller guards on them.

After it became clear that Plum was back to herself and getting the best of Courtney with ease, I would give Hiedeman's some looks at Plum and if that also didn't work, I would experiment with the bench some more, specifically the big lineup.

 

[TC22]

Is it time to recognize the Sun are missing "something" that could push them over the edge? Their core is very good and played together for years but maybe they need a bit of a shake up. They've been achingly close but haven't gotten over the hump.

For the Aces it (likely) took a coaching change to push them to this point. It also helps that Gray and Plum have grown into some of the best in the game. Do the Sun have anyone with that kind of potential in waiting?

Just a random question.

They might want to find somebody who can shoot the ball.

 

[Dillon77]

They might want to find somebody who can shoot the ball.

posted last year that Briann January wasn't a good enough 2 guard to win a title (even though she is a fine player) and the team picked up C Williams but lost J Thomas to an ACL.

Would it be worth considering moving one of the frontcourt players for a better guard? Their rotation is outstanding but maybe a change is needed?

@MSSportsGuy raises a point that I've been pondering whenever I see Connecticut play, When they're functioning on all cylinders, causing turnovers and attacking the basket, the Sun can get some pretty open looks on the break and for trailers.
However, I don't see someone who can create her own shot from mid- or long-range on a consistent basis in the half-court spread. If Carrington could develop into that role, great, but not sure I see her becoming a consistent shooter from the perimeter.

Chiming in with you and @TC22 , there could be team that comes to mind that has gritty players who can create their own shots. I'm thinking of Dallas, who has Arike O. signed long-term, but has to decide whether they can keep Allisha Gray and/or Marina Mabrey. Miller saw both earlier in the playoffs. They're both veterans at this point, could fit into the Sun mold and gosh knows, both can go off from all points on the floor.

There is one other former Domer that comes to mind: Skylar-Diggins Smith, who could supply shooting and help run the offense. However, I highly doubt that Miller could get her salary to mesh with Connecticut's salary structure.

 

[The deacon]

If you mean the Finals (Sun vs. Aces), I think Wilson has been the dominant force thus far. If one was to look at the entire playoffs, I'd point to Gray.

By the second half I was (channel) screen surfing between the Yanks and Red Sox & this game and what caught my eye was how well the Aces run when Hamby is in the lineup. She knows how to get on the attack.

Dearica's one of the Demon Deacons' rare female products to make it in pro basketball... I don't have strong rooting interest in the series, but she and Kiah Stokes give me some cause to go for Vegas.

 

[Dillon77]

Dearica's one of the Demon Deacons' rare female products to make it in pro basketball... I don't have strong rooting interest in the series, but she and Kiah Stokes give me some cause to go for Vegas.

I admire her game and the fact that she's a "working mother" in the league. My Domer shield extends to Jackie Young of the Aces, as you can imagine. BTW, two Deacon notes:

• Think Megan Gabbia was a solid hire for them. She did a great job for American in the Patriot League, which draws upon some of the same students that Wake does (now if they can play hoops is another story )*
• How do I know this? My younger son went to Wake. He and his parents were very pleased with his experience there. Nate Hatch did (more than) a solid stint there as president.

* BTW, along those lines, I think Wake should establish a women's lacrosse team to take advantage of its inroads into the mid-Atlantic. Hell, if Clemson sees that light, so should Wake.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I appreciate the feedback on my comment. It's just that, a comment. I don't have any vested interest in the WNBA but just believe CT has been so close but isn't quite there yet. The series isn't over and the Sun could very well win the title, which could render my statements moot.

I would swap a front court player for at least one or two more guards who are scorers. Let B Jones become a starter if she's not the one who goes. Again, just my thoughts.

 

[triaddukefan]

Great story, though I am a bit biased.

I would swap a front court player for at least one or two more guards who are scorers. Let B Jones become a starter if she's not the one who goes. Again, just my thoughts.

They had such a guard, but traded her away. That guard's name is Chelsea Gray. Still one of the dumbest WNBA trades that I can remember. To those who may have forgotten. In the 2016 draft, the Sun had the #3 and #4 picks in the draft, but they coveted Jonquel Jones. They used the#3 pick for Morgan Tuck, the #4 pick for Rachel Banham, then traded Chelsea Gray for the #6 which was Jonquel Jones.

Gray for Jones trade paying dividends for both teams


A few snippets from that article

Miller admitted his team had a lot of needs at that time. The Sun really wanted Jones, but didn’t want to take back-to-back post players with the No. 3 and 4 picks. He was thrilled to have the opportunity to get Jones, who is averaging 15.9 points and 11.3 rebounds this season.

The other benefit of the deal was that the Sun had been splitting the point guard slot between Gray and Jasmine Thomas with each getting about 20 minutes a game. With the trade it cemented Thomas as the point guard. She too will be playing in the All-Star Game this weekend.

“I love point guard play,” Miller said. “They brought different strengths to the table and we knew that in order to get better we needed to have one dominant point guard instead of splitting time at 20 minutes. We rolled the dice knowing that Chelsea had a little bit more history of injury.”

On that last sentence... after sitting out the first season due to recovering from her college injury, Gray hasn't missed a game due to injury since. So basically the Sun's roster would have Chelsea Gray, A Thomas, and J Jones. But the Sun's front office outsmarted themselves. Then again Gray probably would have left for the West Coast in free agency, so maybe it was all for the best for the Sun anyway.

* No disrespect for Racheal Banham intended, but come on man.

 

[Waquoit]

I think the Sun will lose tonight. But everytime I've thought that, they've won.

 

[WFFL]

The sun got a WNBA MVP out of the trade i won't go as far as saying it was dumb lol. Gray just got better and exceeded J . Thomas talent . Imagine if they would have traded Jas Thomas instead kept gray with the lineup of Alyssa, Jonquel , Dewanna and Courtney . That's a title team imo.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I think I heard Connecticut is 3-0 in elimination games in the playoffs this year. I'm not a betting man, but if I was I certainly wouldn't bet against them. I'm rooting for Vegas. Would be great to close it out tonight. If not, probably better finish the deal on Sunday, because being up 2-0 and then letting it go to a deciding Game 5 makes me very nervous.

 

[triaddukefan]

The sun got a WNBA MVP out of the trade i won't go as far as saying it was dumb lol. Gray just got better and exceeded J . Thomas talent . Imagine if they would have traded Jas Thomas instead kept gray with the lineup of Alyssa, Jonquel , Dewanna and Courtney . That's a title team imo.

I say it was a dumb trade because they could have drafted Jones with the #3 or #4 pick and kept Gray. But noooi. They wanted Tuck and Banham.

 

[WFFL]

I say it was a dumb trade because they could have drafted Jones with the #3 or #4 pick and kept Gray. But noooi. They wanted Tuck and Banham.

ahhhh yes yes that part was very dumb LOL

 

[Carnac]

WNBA Post Practice Media Call with Kiah Stokes, Dearica Hamby, Alyssa Thomas, and Brionna Jones - Sept 11, 2022​

I like the Aces in 4.

 

[JellyBean]

I think I heard Connecticut is 3-0 in elimination games in the playoffs this year. I'm not a betting man, but if I was I certainly wouldn't bet against them. I'm rooting for Vegas. Would be great to close it out tonight. If not, probably better finish the deal on Sunday, because being up 2-0 and then letting it go to a deciding Game 5 makes me very nervous.

I can see Connecticut winning tonight. They do not want to get swept. Pride is on the line. I am with you on this one. I am rooting for Vegas. I don't see it going five games. I want Vegas to finish the series up tonight, but I would not be surprised if Connecticut came out tonight and just having one of those out of body experiences. DeWanna Bonner is going to have one of those games where everything she throws up, is going to go in.