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WNBA -- 2023 Season

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Yeah, I think Toronto could support a WNBA team. Especially if they had a few Canadians on the team. Carleton was the only Canadian playing in this game.
 
Bigboote said:
Yeah, I think Toronto could support a WNBA team. Especially if they had a few Canadians on the team. Carleton was the only Canadian playing in this game.
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It would help, but there were a lot of straight up WNBA fans. You could hear fans yelling for Copper, Williams, Jhuasz, throughout the game.

Achonwa was on hand and part of various events leading up to the game since she's currently on maternity leave.
 


For those who don't think the WNBA gets support. This video is a good example of the demographic who are interested in the game nowadays. A lot of youth in the crowd yesterday in addition to long time fans. I'm so proud of how Torontonians and Canadians responded to this event.

Hopefully the WNBA builds on it. Even if an expansion team isn't on the immediate horizon, hosting exhibition games on an annual basis would be awesome.
 
www.espn.com

WNBA expansion is coming, but when and where?

The WNBA once consisted of 16 teams but has had 12 since 2010. The next expansion seems likely to be two teams, and Toronto and the Bay Area are among the potential sites.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Why no expansion-

"It's both simple and complex. The simple answer is money. The biggest issue isn't just whether franchises consistently make money, or at least don't lose a lot. It's whether they accrue in value. The answer for years was no,"
 
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More pickleball fans than women's basketball fans.

Big changes are coming to Major League Pickleball, as the league expanded from 12 to 24 teams and increased prize money to $5 million for the 2023 season.

thepickler.com

Major League Pickleball: New Format and Teams Announced for 2023

Catch up on the latest announcements from Major League Pickleball, including the new format for the 2023 season, new team owners, and which pro pickleball players were picked to each MLP team. Will you be surprised by the 2023 MLP #1 draft pick?
thepickler.com

And

"The celebrity investors are clearly “hot” on pickleball, as team ownership reportedly cost in the low 7-figures"

Like the rest of you on the BY I enjoy and admire women's basketball at all levels. I particularly enjoy the WNBA and I'm a grateful to have the opportunity to repeatedly watch the GOAT.

That said it's important to be realistic about consumer demand for the entertainment that comes from sports. The consumer market for women's basketball is tiny. It is growing but it's tiny.

I think about my attendance at basketball games at my alma mater McClintock High school.

Attendance at women's games is a tiny fraction of men's games. This past season the Lady Chargers, yes they are called the Lady Chargers Were 28 and 3 won the region and advanced to the OCTA finals in the open State tournament. A wonderful team.

The men were average.

The attendance at the outstanding women's team this year was probably on a regular basis between 50 and 100 fans. The men's team routinely generated 500 to 600 fans.

Of significance when this wonderful women's team went on the road the attendance was less. This was a marquee team well coached with the region player of the year, the region leading rebounder, and an entertaining up tempo style of play.

This personal anecdote reflects the broader truth. Those of us who enjoy and admire women's basketball do so with passion, interest and most often grace. Unfortunately there just aren't very many of us. I would also caution about reading too much into the sellout in Canada. While the energy is wonderful and indicated that the WNBA does have some limited skill at marketing this is a one-off. It would certainly be interesting if one of the two proposed franchise expansion teams ends up in Canada but we would need to be realistic as a fan base as to the economic viability and sustainability of such franchise.
 

May 13, 2023​

From the WNBA Website

Los Angeles: Bradford, Crystal – Waived
Los Angeles: Gray, Reshanda – Waived
Phoenix: Slocum, Destiny – Waived
Phoenix: Dixon, Liz – Waived
 
azfan said:
Where does this money come from? The league is a hole loses money, franchises do not appreciate in value, media rights are tiny in comparison to even soccer.
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The key, as I recall from an article on the women's soccer league is to work on the value appreciation and I believe -- it's mothers day so I'm not going to research this heavily today -- there's starting to be an uptick in some franchises.

However, with the input that franchises that New York or Las Vegas are putting into personnel (both players, coaches and facilities), I've got to think we'll start seeing this.
 
azfan said:
Awesome.

Two Questions

Is this sustainable

Can the challenges and complexities of competing regularly in Canada to be addressed
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Good questions.

1). I believe it is, primarily because of the organization who would likely own the team, Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment. They own several teams including the Leafs and Raptors, along with lesser known teams like Toronto FC and the CFL's Argonauts. They've shown that they're willing to invest in their teams and continue to be profitable.

The other part to sustainability is the fan base. Technically, theirs would be larger than most teams because they'd be considered "Canada's team", like the Blue Jays and Raptors. Leveraging a country for fans increases their odds. Not to mention MLSE does really well with box sets and season ticket sales.

2). The challenges of playing in Canada would primarily be travel because of flights. How to get around that, will continue to be a question unless they're willing to invest in direct flights and avoid stopovers. Places like Chicago, DC, Indiana, Atlanta, Connecticut and New York may not be a problem. Locations like LA, Seattle, Pheonix and Dallas, not so sure.
 
I have to say that trying to get into the WNBA is entirely frustrating. I've primarily been a WCBB fan but with the South Carolina freshies moving on, I wanted to follow their progress in the WNBA. I've been entirely confused on how to watch the preseason games -- or even find highlights.

I assume this is a preseason issue that will resolve when the season starts? No highlights to be found on YouTube, the scores are buried on the ESPN app, and it is hard to figure out where to watch the games, if they're even on TV at all...

I am a WCBB fan, so I will endure these issues while trying to get into the WNBA, but I feel these issues of access and visibility probably thwart any casual attempts to get into the WNBA. They really need to make sure that WNBA content is just as accessible as their competition because they won't gain fans if they don't have the lowest hanging fruit... I already feel myself getting frustrated to the point of giving up, but I told myself I'll wait for the regular season.
 
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GamecockFam said:
I have to say that trying to get into the WNBA is entirely frustrating. I've primarily been a WCBB fan but with the South Carolina freshies moving on, I wanted to follow their progress in the WNBA. I've been entirely confused on how to watch the preseason games -- or even find highlights.

I assume this is a preseason issue that will resolve when the season starts? No highlights to be found on YouTube, the scores are buried on the ESPN app, and it is hard to figure out where to watch the games, if they're even on TV at all...

I am a WCBB fan, so I will endure these issues while trying to get into the WNBA, but I feel these issues of access and visibility probably thwart any casual attempts to get into the WNBA. They really need to make sure that WNBA content is just as accessible as their competition because they won't gain fans if they don't have the lowest hanging fruit... I already feel myself getting frustrated to the point of giving up, but I told myself I'll wait for the regular season.
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Spoiler alert: is still difficult during the regular season. Not quiet as bad still hard to find when or if a game is being broadcast and you have to have so many different streaming services since they are on across Meta, Amazon, ESPN, local affiliates etc etc.
 
GamecockFam said:
I have to say that trying to get into the WNBA is entirely frustrating. I've primarily been a WCBB fan but with the South Carolina freshies moving on, I wanted to follow their progress in the WNBA. I've been entirely confused on how to watch the preseason games -- or even find highlights.

I assume this is a preseason issue that will resolve when the season starts? No highlights to be found on YouTube, the scores are buried on the ESPN app, and it is hard to figure out where to watch the games, if they're even on TV at all...

I am a WCBB fan, so I will endure these issues while trying to get into the WNBA, but I feel these issues of access and visibility probably thwart any casual attempts to get into the WNBA. They really need to make sure that WNBA content is just as accessible as their competition because they won't gain fans if they don't have the lowest hanging fruit... I already feel myself getting frustrated to the point of giving up, but I told myself I'll wait for the regular season.
Expand ...
It's hard. I paid for the League Pass last year and barely watched any games. I changed banks last year so changed cards, and I got an email saying my subscription failed. I didn't realize it was automatic, thank God because I am not buying it again.

If it isn't on TV, I just wait for the highlights to come out on the W's YouTube page. They have gotten a lot better over the years on there.
 
Dillon77 said:
However, with the input that franchises that New York or Las Vegas are putting into personnel (both players, coaches and facilities), I've got to think we'll start seeing this.
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As a fan, I hope so. My heart is firmly with all who hope for expansion in WNBA and greater recognition for this sport overall at all levels.

My head, for what it's worth, is not optimistic and skeptical.

The Harris group just paid $6 billion dollars for the Commanders. This a franchise that Dan Snyder did everything to destroy. If you look at the textbook on what to do to alienate fans, incentivize incompetence, hire sycophants, and lose lose Dan Schneider has his picture there alongside the malpractice he performed on the Commanders.

And yet 6 billion dollars. Back in 1990s Snyder paid under a billion for a very successful franchise one that won three super bowls had a huge waiting list for season tickets and was beloved and almost a nationwide franchise.

Everything Snyder did to this team and still get 6 billion.

This is capital appreciation and the Harris group knows what they're doing. The value of NFL franchises will continue to appreciate making this an outstanding investment. And deep pocketed investors will wait for this kind of opportunity.

So for 10% of the sale price of the Commanders the WNBA could expand by 2 to 6 teams and ensure stability over the near term for the league.

There are a plethora of very smart businesswomen and businessmen who recognize capital appreciation when they see it when they do they invest.

When they don't they don't.

Therein lies the reason for limited expansion in the WNBA. Sad, but true.

In a bizarro world in which I was rich I would hope my heart would guide my investment decision but I suspect ultimately it would be my head.

If pickleball franchises continue to appreciate and WNBA franchises don't it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know which League will expand.
 
azfan said:
As a fan, I hope so. My heart is firmly with all who hope for expansion in WNBA and greater recognition for this sport overall at all levels.

My head, for what it's worth, is not optimistic and skeptical.

The Harris group just paid $6 billion dollars for the Commanders. This a franchise that Dan Snyder did everything to destroy. If you look at the textbook on what to do to alienate fans, incentivize incompetence, hire sycophants, and lose lose Dan Schneider has his picture there alongside the malpractice he performed on the Commanders.

And yet 6 billion dollars. Back in 1990s Snyder paid under a billion for a very successful franchise one that won three super bowls had a huge waiting list for season tickets and was beloved and almost a nationwide franchise.

Everything Snyder did to this team and still get 6 billion.

This is capital appreciation and the Harris group knows what they're doing. The value of NFL franchises will continue to appreciate making this an outstanding investment. And deep pocketed investors will wait for this kind of opportunity.

So for 10% of the sale price of the Commanders the WNBA could expand by 2 to 6 teams and ensure stability over the near term for the league.

There are a plethora of very smart businesswomen and businessmen who recognize capital appreciation when they see it when they do they invest.

When they don't they don't.

Therein lies the reason for limited expansion in the WNBA. Sad, but true.

In a bizarro world in which I was rich I would hope my heart would guide my investment decision but I suspect ultimately it would be my head.

If pickleball franchises continue to appreciate and WNBA franchises don't it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know which League will expand.
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Look two millioneers put money into Las Vegas, and New York.
So someone feels there is a value in the WNBA.
 
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baggerbob said:
Look two millioneers put money into Las Vegas, and New York.
So someone feels there is a value in the WNBA.
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Just not enough "someone's". :(

Sooooooo

We all remember when the Atlanta Dream were sold as a consequence of the Kelly Loeffler fiasco. I ask you to think about the Daniel Snyder fiasco as you read on.

The league refused to disclose the sales price but estimates were between 10 and 11 million dollars. Wow! Renee Montgomery and her posse must have got a great deal. Especially since the Seattle Storm "estimate" the value of their franchise at $141 million.

Obviously these two things cannot exist at the same time. If you do think they can DM me privately as I have a bridge here in Arizona you might be interested in buying.

There is a reason the WNBA refuses to disclose the sales price of the Dream. And it's definitely not because the franchise is worth in 141 million dollar range.

Investors in sports franchises appreciate appreciation.
 
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I would like to see the WNBA expand but money is most definitely an issue. I was a multi-year season ticket holder at a former WNBA franchise and many of those former locations had a decent sized very loyal fan base of 3k to 5k season ticket holders and about 2k - 3k additional fans at many games. The WNBA failed to transition to smaller venues and build on the groundwork that was laid. They also (to this day) do a terrible job of marketing overall.

Several of the former franchises routinely ranked in the top 4 in attendance at the time they disappeared. Charlotte, Cleveland, Houston, Sacramento, Portland, Orlando and Miami all had time to plan for their future without the NBA's support but failed to do so. Others - like Tulsa and San Antonio - ended up moving elsewhere. They need to take better care of the few big market teams they have like L.A. for starters.

The break for the Olympics every four years is another thing that works against them. They could and should approach that as a marketing opportunity for current and future stars as well as shining a light on many of the lesser known but very talented international stars.

Finally, the media coverage is probably the thing that hurts them the most. At times it's nearly impossible to find a live game to watch especially without having to spend money to do so. The promotion is terrible. I heard more here about the game in Canada than I did anywhere else. Unless and until the league addresses all of the above issues I just don't see it working out. The excitement of adding a couple of new franchises will be offset more than likely with the failure of a couple of existing ones. I hope I'm wrong but I think I'm not.
 
Kaizen said:
Aliyah Boston played 18 mins, 8 pts, 6 fouls as IND 90 - DAL 83. WNBA will not let Boston to go away with fouls like she was in the college basketball....
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I don't know if that the case or moreso of her playing against a bigger more physical player than her. She got a dose of what she normally does to smaller players. Battling with a bigger and more physical player often leads to the smaller player fighting to compete for position and eventually foul.

She'll do fine, she didn't back down to the challenge and as the game progressed she found better ways to be effective against her size and even got some foul calls in her favor. Teaira is a tough guard for an established veteran let alone a rookie.
 
Reypl21 said:
It's hard. I paid for the League Pass last year and barely watched any games. I changed banks last year so changed cards, and I got an email saying my subscription failed. I didn't realize it was automatic, thank God because I am not buying it again.

If it isn't on TV, I just wait for the highlights to come out on the W's YouTube page. They have gotten a lot better over the years on there.
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The WNBA has made a deal with several networks to get games on TV that expands coverage. Can't recall all of the networks, but I saw the CBS is involved this year which I don't think was the case last season. Let's hope the trend continues.
 

May 14, 2023​

Seattle: Williams, Madi – Waivers Cleared
Chicago: Evans, Dana – Team Option Exercised
Minnesota: Dodson, Maya – Waived
Minnesota: Selland, Myah – Waived
Chicago: Baker, Angel – Waived
Washington: Jones, Stephanie – Waived
Washington: Tsineke, Elena – Waived
 
League Pass is $26, and you can watch games any time (except I can’t watch the Mystics live even if their game isn’t being broadcast locally). I didn’t watch that many games last year, but I still think it’s worth it.
 
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For those that have WNBA League Pass they have replays of the Sky vs Lynx and Wings vs Fever 2023 pre-season games.

You need to click on the individual team and it will be first game shown under '2022 season'.
 
jdote33 said:
Very tough. Sometimes I even feel conflicted about the rookies being promoted when a lot won't make the team. I mean I feel bad for them as it almost seems like they are exploited. Like Indiana and Grace Berger. What if she doesn't make the team. But the day after she got drafted they were selling jerseys.

Like is Brea Beal going to be in Minnesota next week. And I'm a fan of Beal, I'm just saying.

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Closed scrimmage between the Sparks and Storm(at LMU)
Sparks up 31-30 at the half.
Nurse has 7 points
Rebounding Samuelson has 3 pts, 1 rebound, 1 assist and 1 steal, and a +8

 
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