WNBA -- 2023 Season

[nwhoopfan]

If we're gonna complain about calls, Boston and Smith both got away with BLATANTLY obvious offensive fouls on drives that weren't called. Wilson and Clark were their victims. The refs let a ton of stuff go, so the fact that they called any fouls at all indicates they were totally inconsistent.

 

[Geew1992]

The end of the third quarter got chippy:

• Plum got a blocking call on Hull when replays indicated KP used a very firm, extended push-off. on Hull Tech on Coach Sides, who was riled.
• Then Allisha Gray didn't get a call on either Hull or Wallace and let the refs know about it and picked up a T for her effort, which Coach Hammond shouting support.

Bot FT's, btw, were scored. 4th quarter started and on they went. Gray used this an an impetus and consistently scored over Wheeler and/or Mitchell, both of whom were pretty much helpless against her.

Still not sold on investing two years in Wheeler....but that frontcourt (Boston & Smith) of the Fever. Watch out.

Allisha Gray?? Doesn't she play for Atlanta?

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I think Boston's impact has completely changed the trajectory of this Fever squad. Their only two double digit losses this season are to the Aces and Liberty. They are currently 5-9 but easily could be 9-5.

I still think not playing through Aliyah will continue to be their downfall. This is at least the 3rd or 4th game this season that she was largely the reason the game remained close and in the final moments(or this case, quarter) the guards were all about themselves. How you let your most consistent player and leading scorer going into 4th only take one shot is beyond me.

 

[Dillon77]

Allisha Gray?? Doesn't she play for Atlanta?

Not now! (I must've seen Allisha's name in other posts)
Thanks, Will make the edit.

 

[bbsamjj]

GCKSFN4L I'd have to watch again, but I think Vegas did a much better job in the 4th quarter on packing it in on Boston, making it much harder to get her the ball. Wheeler would often drive to the post, see nowhere to pass it, take it back out, look inside, see nowhere to pass it, then need to take a pull up jump shot. With Smith having an off game from the field, it made it easier for Vegas to pack it in. Also, if 20pts and 14 rebounds is a "decent" game from Boston, the league is in serious trouble.

On Wheeler, it's arguable if she's worth the money they gave her, but I think she's exactly the right lead guard this young team needs. She's a veteran, steady, doesn't need to shoot a ton (averages less than 9 field goal attempts a game), and has an excellent 3.1:1 assist to turnover ratio. Is she the PG That will take them to the championship? probably not, but she's a very good piece for them at the moment.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I think Boston's impact has completely changed the trajectory of this Fever squad. Their only two double digit losses this season are to the Aces and Liberty. They are currently 5-9 but easily could be 9-5.

I still think not playing through Aliyah will continue to be their downfall. This is at least the 3rd or 4th game this season that she was largely the reason the game remained close and in the final moments(or this case, quarter) the guards were all about themselves. How you let your most consistent player and leading scorer going into 4th only take one shot is beyond me.

I think a new GM, new coach and new backcourt pieces also helped with that trajectory. Specifically Sides is proving to be an excellent coach. I said a few weeks ago the Fever are a dead end situation but as long as Sides is there and Dunn I take that back.

Aliyah is having a great season but there are a lot of new pieces in addition to Boston that have changed their season.

 

[bballnut90]

I think a new GM, new coach and new backcourt pieces also helped with that trajectory. Specifically Sides is proving to be an excellent coach. I said a few weeks ago the Fever are a dead end situation but as long as Sides is there and Dunn I take that back.

Aliyah is having a great season but there are a lot of new pieces in addition to Boston that have changed their season.

I'm lowkey hoping they don't make the playoffs so they can land another big time player if Clark or Bueckers don't use their covid year. Clark/Boston/Nalyssa Smith would be a heck of a young core, plus Kelsey Mitchell is one of the more underrated stars in the league.

 

[visitingcock]

Very physical game indeed. I noticed that Indiana has taken on the tone of their Coach. Coach Sides is intense! She is awesome. Indiana, in this game kept it close. Some bad shot selection here and there. Throw in some bad calls here and there. Indiana darn near pulled off a huge upset.

Aliyah Boston had a decent game. She did not shy away from the physical play of Stokes or Wilson. She dished out and took on the contact. Indiana is going to be a problem.

Gamecocks Reunion!
Boston: 20 points on 7/14, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 1 TO, 2 personals.
Wilson: 24 points on 8/17, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks, 3 TOs, 4 personals.
Both got 34 minutes PT.

The Fever are fun this year, but I'm waiting on the day the Fever actually win a big game. 1 pt lead at 2:27 remaining. Hopefully they will develop the ability to close games like this out. But the Aces aren't the defending champs for nothing - they know how to close out.

Should the Fever tank it for the draft position? El No! Losing attitudes can become embedded. Work on winning! They only need a veteran closer at guard.

@bballnut90 Okay. You said "low key." I can't hope for losses, but I get what you're saying.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I'm lowkey hoping they don't make the playoffs so they can land another big time player if Clark or Bueckers don't use their covid year. Clark/Boston/Nalyssa Smith would be a heck of a young core, plus Kelsey Mitchell is one of the more underrated stars in the league.

If you make the play-offs you don't get a lottery pick, right? I don't see how they'll finish below the mercury, Seattle, or the Lynx this year tbh with you. I think they'll have to do worse than the Dream and the Sky to not make the play-offs. I think its more likely than not that they'll make the play-offs but certainly very possible they won't. Even if they don't make the play-offs no guarntee both of those players come out AND that they get a high enough pick in the lottery to get them.

One correction, Buckers wouldn't be using her Covid year, she'd be using her normal forth year of eligibility since she's redshirted.

 

[bballnut90]

Gamecocks Reunion!
Boston: 20 points on 7/14, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 1 TO, 2 personals.
Wilson: 24 points on 8/17, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks, 3 TOs, 4 personals.
Both got 34 minutes PT.

The Fever are fun this year, but I'm waiting on the day the Fever actually win a big game. 1 pt lead at 2:27 remaining. Hopefully they will develop the ability to close games like this out. But the Aces aren't the defending champs for nothing - they know how to close out.

Should the Fever tank it for the draft position? El No! Losing attitudes can become embedded. Work on winning! They only need a veteran closer at guard.

@bballnut90 Okay. You said "low key." I can't hope for losses, but I get what you're saying.

In 2018 the Aces missed the playoffs by 1 game and they got the #1 pick in the draft due primarily to their abysmal 2017 season. They landed Jackie Young who was integral to their title run in 2022 and is a leading MVP candidate this year.

Fever could be in a similar predicament this year. If they miss the playoffs and don't finish by more than 8 games ahead of all other lottery teams, they'll have the best odds (44.2%) of landing the #1 pick next year and have a guaranteed top 3 pick. Really good odds to land one of Clark/Bueckers should they declare, and if not then a player like Cameron Brink or Angel Reese could be the consolation prize. They're on the upswing regardless if they get another star or not, but getting another young star has them set to compete for titles over the next decade.

 

[Fowlball]

If you make the play-offs you don't get a lottery pick, right? I don't see how they'll finish below the mercury, Seattle, or the Lynx this year tbh with you. I think they'll have to do worse than the Dream and the Sky to not make the play-offs. I think its more likely than not that they'll make the play-offs but certainly very possible they won't. Even if they don't make the play-offs no guarntee both of those players come out AND that they get a high enough pick in the lottery to get them.

One correction, Buckers wouldn't be using her Covid year, she'd be using her normal forth year of eligibility since she's redshirted.

Skylar Diggins Smith to the Fever...

 

[bballnut90]

If you make the play-offs you don't get a lottery pick, right? I don't see how they'll finish below the mercury, Seattle, or the Lynx this year tbh with you. I think they'll have to do worse than the Dream and the Sky to not make the play-offs. I think its more likely than not that they'll make the play-offs but certainly very possible they won't. Even if they don't make the play-offs no guarntee both of those players come out AND that they get a high enough pick in the lottery to get them.

One correction, Buckers wouldn't be using her Covid year, she'd be using her normal forth year of eligibility since she's redshirted.

Correct, they wouldn't get the lotto pick if they finish top 8.

Right now they're currently tied for 8th with Chicago at 5-9. Minnesota/Seattle are a half game back at 4-9, Atlanta is 5-7, Dallas is 6-8. They are playing like a lower seeded playoff team but there's a lot of basketball left to be played and a log jam of lower tier teams fighting for likely 3 spots. If they are lottery bound, they'll have strong odds to get #1 overall. The WNBA determines draft odds based on worst record from the previous 2 years combined, and Fever went 5-31 last year with the next closest being the Sparks at 13-21. This means other teams have to finish at least 8-9+ games behind the Fever, or the Fever will hold the best odds (44.2%) of getting the #1 overall pick if they miss the playoffs. If they do have the best odds then they are guaranteed a top 3 pick as well.

And you're completely right though--any/all of Clark/Bueckers/Reese/Brink/Cardoso could return for a 5th year in college. I personally hope we see all of them back since the exposure is greater in the collegiate game, the season is longer and I just enjoy watching them play in college. Will be interesting to see what they choose to do.

 

[bbsamjj]

I won't argue that there is currently more exposure in the college game. Shockingly, the seasons are actually about the same length:

College: November, December, January, Feb, March-->5 months
Pro: May 19-Oct. 20 (last potential day of WNBA Finals)-->5 months

I understand why some folks prefer the college game to the pro game, but especially after 4 years in college, I'm much more excited to see how players' games translate to the WNBA. I'm so glad we get to see Boston going up against women her own strength and size as opposed to another season of her being quadruple teamed against Vandy.

 

[visitingcock]

In 2018 the Aces missed the playoffs by 1 game . .

Fever could be in a similar predicament this year. If they miss the playoffs and don't finish by more than 8 games ahead of all other lottery teams, they'll have the best odds (44.2%) of landing the #1 pick next year and have a guaranteed top 3 pick. Really good odds to land one of Clark/Bueckers should they declare, and if not then a player like Cameron Brink or Angel Reese could be the consolation prize. They're on the upswing regardless if they get another star or not, but getting another young star has them set to compete for titles over the next decade.

I don’t see Reese or Brink as a good “ consolation pride for the Fever. They are pretty well set for young bigs. I guess they could draft one of them and trade a talented young big for an established veteran shooter.

 

[Dillon77]

I don’t see Reese or Brink as a good “ consolation pride for the Fever. They are pretty well set for young bigs. I guess they could draft one of them and trade a talented young big for an established veteran shooter.

"They only need a veteran closer at guard." - @visitingcock

I highlighted both of these in red because I wanted to make sure you meant guard. As in shooting guard, the role currently occupied by Kelsey Mitchell. Who is currently averaging 17.1 ppg on 41.2 overall shooting, 39.6% from three-pt. land and an excellent 84.6 percent from the charity stripe. So are you saying you'd rather have someone other than Kelsey Mitchell, who -- btw -- was voted 5th at guard (thus far) by her peers, which is always a pretty good harbinger for me on who is getting the deal done.

Or, perhaps are you thinking of a small forward/wing/other guard that can join her in place of Lexie Hull or Wallace?

On the veteran closer front, did you have anyone in mind? I'm intrigued

 

[nwhoopfan]

Aces briefly went up by 10 in the 4th quarter. Fever immediately whittled it back down and took the lead. That was mostly from Wheeler hitting triples. If you're gonna knock Indiana's guards...I don't know, doesn't really seem to fit this game.

Okay, I looked at play by play to be sure. Plum's 3 put LV up by 10 at the 5:31 mark. At 2:27 Indiana went up by 1. Wheeler hit a pair of 3's and had a layup during the stretch, Wallace also made a 3. I don't know if trying to pound the ball inside when you are down double digits w/ 5 minutes left is really gonna get you back in the game. (of course after that Chelsea Gray said "enough of that" while she scored 8 points during an 11-0 run, and assisted on the other bucket, but that is beside the point)

Okay, Mitchell went 0-5 in the last 2:27. That definitely wasn't closing the game. Wheeler didn't even get a shot up, but she had a great 3 minute run in the middle of the quarter.

 

[GoChips20]

I don’t see Reese or Brink as a good “ consolation pride for the Fever. They are pretty well set for young bigs. I guess they could draft one of them and trade a talented young big for an established veteran shooter.

Agreed. Fever can and will take what they can get but at this point they need a Bueckers/Clark far more than a Brink/Reese (the latter of whom I’m definitely not sold on in the W, anyway).

 

[bbsamjj]

"They only need a veteran closer at guard." - @visitingcock

I highlighted both of these in red because I wanted to make sure you meant guard. As in shooting guard, the role currently occupied by Kelsey Mitchell. Who is currently averaging 17.1 ppg on 41.2 overall shooting, 39.6% from three-pt. land and an excellent 84.6 percent from the charity stripe. So are you saying you'd rather have someone other than Kelsey Mitchell, who -- btw -- was voted 5th at guard (thus far) by her peers, which is always a pretty good harbinger for me on who is getting the deal done.

Or, perhaps are you thinking of a small forward/wing/other guard that can join her in place of Lexie Hull or Wallace?

On the veteran closer front, did you have anyone in mind? I'm intrigued

The only thing that has come to my mind thus far is...Betnijah Laney.

She's a free agent after this year, and not sure the NYL can still pay her what she's been making the past three with their "super team" now in place. She's tight with Erica Wheeler and would fit in nicely at the 3. But not sure she'll want to leave a top contender for a team "on the rise."

 

[nwhoopfan]

What the heck? Alyssa Thomas suddenly handing out triple doubles like they are candy. 3 in about a week. I knew Parker wasn't gonna hold the record for long, but I thought it was gonna be Ionescu running away with it. Nope, it's the A Train.

Although Stewie is outscoring her by a bunch and NY about to get the W, so I'd say this particular head to head probably favors Stewie as far as MVP consideration.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Sun wasted 23 off the bench for Carrington and 14 for Nelson-Ododa. Not gonna get that kind of bench production very often. Lib win 89-81 and make the conversation for second best team in the league a lot more interesting.

 

[Bigboote]

Score not indicative of the game. Aces win by 8 but Fever gave them everything they could handle. Game was nip and tuck til an 11-0 run very late. Mostly Gray. Very physical game. Refs lost control fairly early and never reigned it back in.

Same on Saturday, although I'm not sure the refs ever had control.

 

[bbsamjj]

What the heck? Alyssa Thomas suddenly handing out triple doubles like they are candy. 3 in about a week. I knew Parker wasn't gonna hold the record for long, but I thought it was gonna be Ionescu running away with it. Nope, it's the A Train.

Although Stewie is outscoring her by a bunch and NY about to get the W, so I'd say this particular head to head probably favors Stewie as far as MVP consideration.

Thomas missed a lot of bunnies tonight but damn is she good. Especially without B. Jones, Liberty just have too much offensive firepower in the starting lineup, though the Sun's 44 bench points were phenomenal and minus Thornton, the NY bench really struggled tonight.

Thomas is playing A LOT of 40min games; she's as tough and as fit as they come, but I hope she doesn't get run down too soon.

 

[bballnut90]

Collier is tearing it up. She's putting together an All-WNBA season this year.

 

[Bigboote]

Collier and Juhasz both with double-doubles for Minnesota. It took Collier awhile to get going. So-so first half, but she put on a clinic in the second. I think she used about a dozen different moves in the paint. She made Magbegor look flat-footed, which isn't easy.

Minny scored 104 points, after having not broken 70 in several games this year. I think it may be more than coincidence that they did this with Lindsay Allen starting in place of Tiffany Mitchell.

 

[nwhoopfan]

To answer my own recent question, yes the Lynx can beat someone other than the Sparks.

Caught a bit of a local broadcast of the game. Apparently the Storm have been outscoring their opponents behind the arc by A LOT the last 4 games, but have only gone 1-3. I guess 3 point shooting isn't everything.