Williams and Nelson-Ododa raring to go

[pvdoggy]

Rebuilding time has finally come to Geno - the chickens they are a coming home to roost after years of dominance. Hopefully, this isn't the start of another "Dark Age" of UConn basketball (post DT & pre-Mayan era - those teams were unwatchable). CW will have to have a monster year offensively & ONO will need to be a defensive stopper if this team has any chance of winning a Title. I'm afraid we're in for a multi-year ND title run. I dont see many teams come close to beating them next year.

Some UConn fan sure can be a bit over the top with their opinion. Fact is a lot of teams would love to have the kind of dark age (2005-2007) result year in, year out.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Depends on the class.

As an undergrad I took a relaxation class. Seriously. Got PE credit for it. It was virtually impossible not to fall asleep.

 

[JustinesGuy]

ONO will clearly need to hit the gym but don't sell her short....she's more athletic and has equal or better natural ability then Azura or any UConn big since Stewie so she should be a useful asset from day one.....

Sure! Can’t wait to watch her play and grow.

 

[JoePgh]

We all know Geno's tendency to not play freshmen meaningful minutes in meaningful games. If I'm missing something here, someone please enlighten me....

.... Geno may not be afforded the luxury of allowing this freshman class to sit and observe this coming season,
...

Geez, this myth again. Apparently people think that they can make it true (or make it be believed) just by repeating it.

It has been refuted numerous times on this board, but in case anyone missed the last 20 refutations, let me offer here a partial list of past freshmen to whom Geno has given “meaningful minutes in meaningful games”:

Katie Lou Samuelson
Kia Nurse
Breanna Stewart
Morgan Tuck
Kelly Faris
Stef Dolson
Bria Hartley
Samarie Walker (even though she transferred after one semester)
Caroline Doty
Maya Moore

That is just who I can think of in the last decade or so; it is far from a complete list. It is absolutely false that Geno refuses on principle to play freshmen. People who think otherwise are generalizing wildly from one particular year (last year), which is by no means a typical year.

Geno will find out in October, and the rest of us in mid-November, whether Megan Walker has overcome her problems, or not. It wouldn’t be a great leap (based on past experience) to think that she might. Here is a partial list of players who did not play very much or very well in their freshman years but went on to become major contributors at UConn:

Crystal Dangerfield
Napheesa Collier
Gabby Williams
Moriah Jefferson
Tiffany Hayes
Tina Charles
Mel Thomas

It is entirely possible that Megan Walker (and perhaps Mikayla Coombs) will add their names to this second list.

Which of the two lists will eventually contain the names of ONO and CW? I have no idea, and I doubt that Geno does. But if I had to guess, I would say that they are more likely to make the first list than the second.

For UConn as a team, it is more important for ONO to make the first list than for CW to do so, because UConn has other good options at guard but not at center. So, as with Stefanie Dolson, Geno is likely to be more tolerant of ONO’s mistakes if her attitude is right and if she is a quick learner. Stef had major weaknesses as a freshman — she was foul-prone and was a poor rebounder for her size, and she was not in UConn shape. Just as ONO has to add bulk, Stef had to lose baby fat. Geno tolerated that in Stef, mainly because he had no real alternatives but also because Stef was always eager to learn and learned well. If her head had not been in the right place, he would not have played her just because he needed her size.

All the indications that I see from ONO are that her head will be in the right place, and that she is smart enough to learn quickly. If that is true, her lack of bulk will be tolerated and worked with. There is a good chance that she will be in the starting lineup from Day 1 (as Stef was). And UConn will be a very good team.

I would certainly expect UConn to be a Final Four team next year, but I agree that they would not be favored to win the NC (although they might). Unlike some BostonFan’s, I will be happy to watch them if they achieve that.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Olivia has strong, not skinny legs. She has a great base for posting up. I think she starts.

Another freshman who didn’t start, but was really good and got lots of PT: Kaleena. She led the team in scoring her first 2 seasons. Geno couldn’t take her out because, as he said, good things happen when she’s in the game.

 

[Carnac]

Geez, this myth again. Apparently people think that they can make it true (or make it be believed) just by repeating it.

It has been refuted numerous times on this board, but in case anyone missed the last 20 refutations, let me offer here a partial list of past freshmen to whom Geno has given “meaningful minutes in meaningful games”:

Katie Lou Samuelson
Kia Nurse
Breanna Stewart
Morgan Tuck
Kelly Faris
Stef Dolson
Bria Hartley
Samarie Walker (even though she transferred after one semester)
Caroline Doty
Maya Moore

That is just who I can think of in the last decade or so; it is far from a complete list. It is absolutely false that Geno refuses on principle to play freshmen. People who think otherwise are generalizing wildly from one particular year (last year), which is by no means a typical year.

Geno will find out in October, and the rest of us in mid-November, whether Megan Walker has overcome her problems, or not. It wouldn’t be a great leap (based on past experience) to think that she might. Here is a partial list of players who did not play very much or very well in their freshman years but went on to become major contributors at UConn:

Crystal Dangerfield
Napheesa Collier
Gabby Williams
Moriah Jefferson
Tiffany Hayes
Tina Charles
Mel Thomas

It is entirely possible that Megan Walker (and perhaps Mikayla Coombs) will add their names to this second list.

Which of the two lists will eventually contain the names of ONO and CW? I have no idea, and I doubt that Geno does. But if I had to guess, I would say that they are more likely to make the first list than the second.

For UConn as a team, it is more important for ONO to make the first list than for CW to do so, because UConn has other good options at guard but not at center. So, as with Stefanie Dolson, Geno is likely to be more tolerant of ONO’s mistakes if her attitude is right and if she is a quick learner. Stef had major weaknesses as a freshman — she was foul-prone and was a poor rebounder for her size, and she was not in UConn shape. Just as ONO has to add bulk, Stef had to lose baby fat. Geno tolerated that in Stef, mainly because he had no real alternatives but also because Stef was always eager to learn and learned well. If her head had not been in the right place, he would not have played her just because he needed her size.

All the indications that I see from ONO are that her head will be in the right place, and that she is smart enough to learn quickly. If that is true, her lack of bulk will be tolerated and worked with. There is a good chance that she will be in the starting lineup from Day 1 (as Stef was). And UConn will be a very good team.

I would certainly expect UConn to be a Final Four team next year, but I agree that they would not be favored to win the NC (although they might). Unlike some BostonFan’s, I will be happy to watch them if they achieve that.

Thanks for the response Joe. It's interesting that you would take 1 line out of a 4-5 paragraph post to focus on. I think if you incorporate that sentence back into the post, and look at the entire context, it makes sense in that it helps get my thought across. If you don't agree with the post, that's OK. I said Geno has a tendency to not play freshmen. I did not say he NEVER plays freshmen, he doesn't like to play freshmen, or he won't play freshmen.

I said he has a tendency not to play freshmen. This was very evident last year. That is not a myth, that is a fact. Check the team stats in the team archives for the last 3 seasons. Note how little the freshmen played in each of those years. You provided a list of freshmen that received extensive playing time. There are always exceptions to a rule. I could provide a longer list of freshmen that didn't see any playing time.

However, I'm referring to the recent past (like the last three years), not the distant past. I'm using that time period as a backdrop for the upcoming season, and the probability of ONO and Williams playing meaningful minutes ALL season in 2018-2019. My comment was based totally on what Geno said about freshmen that come in to his program, and the use of last year's freshmen class.

Geno's view on playing freshmen is different than that of most other coaches. You may remember this clip from one of Geno's TV shows on SNY: Remember, these are HIS words and thoughts, not mine. The stats in the record book are not mine, nor did I record them. And as I said, this topic will be discussed several times this summer, with advocates on both sides of the table.

 

[BobbyJ]

The "optimist" in me believes that ALL of the reserves will be more productive and a part of the team's success than they were last season. They were all recruited for a reason. They were ALL ballers!! This year's team cannot afford to carry any "cheerleaders." The team needs contributions from EVERY PLAYER on the roster this year!!!

Sounds good Scoop, but I just don’t see it happening. I think they’ll be carrying at least 3 semi- cheerleaders. I don’t see Auriemma losing games to make a point to freshmen. IMO, he only does it when he knows he doesn’t really need them to win. With this group, unlike last year, I think he’ll coach the freshmen as priorities from the start and play them some through the learning process. Because he has to. With Walker in the rotation, he’s got no impact players coming off the bench and he’ll have to give them a shot.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Meg has to prove “I got it.” I’m confident she will.

Geno and CD say the same thing: “The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.”

 

[Carnac]

Sounds good Scoop, but I just don’t see it happening. I think they’ll be carrying at least 3 semi- cheerleaders. I don’t see Auriemma losing games to make a point to freshmen. IMO, he only does it when he knows he doesn’t really need them to win. With this group, unlike last year, I think he’ll coach the freshmen as priorities from the start and play them some through the learning process. Because he has to. With Walker in the rotation, he’s got no impact players coming off the bench and he’ll have to give them a shot.

I'm being optimistic here, but I agree that he should coach them up from the very beginning as you suggest. I wrote a comment earlier today that basically mirrors your take: "I've said this on several occasions in the last month, that because of the lack of meaningful "on-court" experience among the returning non starters, and because of the exceptional skill set and USA experience both will bring with them this fall, it could be almost impossible for Geno to keep them on the bench this year.

This topic will be at the fore front of the items discussed and debated on this board during the summer. We all know Geno's tendency to not play freshmen meaningful minutes in meaningful games. If I'm missing something here, someone please enlighten me. Right now, we don't know which one or two of the reserves can definitely be counted on to step up and replace the production of Kia and Gabby (which averaged close to 45% of the total scores last season).

One would think it would be a member of last year's team as opposed to one (or both) of the freshmen. UConn lost two rim protectors and a shooter in Kia that could shoot 3 pt shots on a relatively consistent basis.
Williams has already demonstrated that she can create her own shot, drive the lane, as well as score consistently from beyond the arc. Do we know if there is a reserve from last season that can do that?

IMO, the more they play early in the season, the more they'll play the rest of the season. Geno may not be afforded the luxury of allowing this freshman class to sit and observe this coming season, especially if Lou and Crystal are not fully recovered (or Heaven forbid have a relapse) from their injuries when the season begins". How much he's going to need ONO and Williams depends on what he gets from the returning reserves.

 

[Go/huskies]

Both Williams and ONO have moved in to there dorms.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I’m confident that Olivia and Christyn will move up the learning curve relatively quickly, though some bumps in the road are to be expected. They are exceptional players and people. Geno has no choice but to play them. Last year, Meg had 6 solid players ahead of her; this year, the frosh have 3 or 4. That makes a huge difference.

 

[Carnac]

Geno on Crystal: "I don't know that I'd trade Crystal for another point guard in the country, and she's only going to be better this year".

There are holes to fill. Two of the most important questions are how much forward Megan Walker, the 2017 national high school player of the year, can contribute as a sophomore after a rocky debut season, and what roles Nelson-Ododa and Williams can play. "Megan is going to be better," Auriemma said. "She looks great. She's worked really hard. Obviously she is really, really disappointed in the way last year went but a lot of freshmen, that's what happens."

"The guys coming back, hopefully, have all gotten a little bit better, and the two incoming freshmen hopefully can come in and play," he said of Williams and Nelson-Ododa. "They may have to play a bigger role this year than the freshmen last year had to play. It almost reminds me of Bria Hartley and Stefanie Dolson [key contributors as freshmen in 2010-11], where they come in and you go, 'Hey, whether you're ready or not, you're going to have to go.' That's going to take a while, as the season goes on, to figure all that stuff out. And the schedule is even harder this year. We're going to learn a lot as we go."

Reading between the lines here tells me he plans on playing the freshmen a lot this year. He sounds like he's willing to endure some "growing pains" along the way. We all remember the returning reserves as we last saw them. Until we see different, those final images and their stats, are what we'll use to fuel our debates this summer.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Reading between the lines here tells me he plans on playing the freshmen a lot this year.

We'll see, but if he does it's because his junior class outside of Dangerfield was a miss, by UConn standards. That's the hole in the lineup.

 

[MilfordHusky]

We'll see, but if he does it's because his junior class outside of Dangerfield was a miss, by UConn standards. That's the hole in the lineup.

Some of Geno’s recruiting is for role players, glue players, and good teammates. I think it’s clear that Kyla and Molly fit that role.

I look for the new Big 3 to star, Megan to step up big time, and Liv and the Legend to be next on the depth charts. I pencil Olivia in as jumping center in November.

Scoop—you are an astute person. I don’t think there’s much between the lines at all. It’s in black and white.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Some of Geno’s recruiting is for role players, glue players, and good teammates. I think it’s clear that Kyla and Molly fit that role.

I look for the new Big 3 to star, Megan to step up big time, and Liv and the Legend to be next on the depth charts. I pencil Olivia in as jumping center in November.

I get that UConn recruits players that aren't all in line to be All Americans, but I doubt they try to recruit players that struggle against the back of opponents' benches. I'm sure Bent and Irwin are excellent teammates and such, but they have been nowhere near the normal UConn caliber player---to this point. I don't know that Bent will ever have the confidence or Irwin the quickness to be major contributors.

 

[victor64]

I get that UConn recruits players that aren't all in line to be All Americans, but I doubt they try to recruit players that struggle against the back of opponents' benches. I'm sure Bent and Irwin are excellent teammates and such, but they have been nowhere near the normal UConn caliber player---to this point. I don't know that Bent will ever have the confidence or Irwin the quickness to be major contributors.

I agree with everything you wrote. I just didn't think criticizing players was allowed on the BY. I am really hoping Coombs returns fully healthy.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

I agree with everything you wrote. I just didn't think criticizing players was allowed on the BY. I am really hoping Coombs returns fully healthy.

I actually don't feel like it's a criticism. At the very least it's meant with no animosity. Irwin improved as a sophomore and Geno really likes her. Bent by all accounts works as hard as anyone anywhere, and I had high hopes for her. Both have things that have held them back from being regular contributors thus far. It'd be nice if they could at least be depth players, but it's going to take massive steps to be the kinds of players that UConn will need to win a title the next two years.

 

[MilfordHusky]

We have a hyphenated name on the Wall of Honor: Mosqueda-Lewis. I’m predicting we have a second: Nelson-Ododa.

I also think the Williams “sisters” make it. Not Serena and Venus, but Gabby and Christyn.

 

[Carnac]

Scoop—you are an astute person. I don’t think there’s much between the lines at all. It’s in black and white.

Thanks Milford. I was trying to be politically correct, and not appear to be direct as you are. But, as I take off the gloves...........I think you're are 100% correct sir!!! Last year Geno had a strong starting 5 + a 6'6" EXPERIENCED 6th man coming off the bench. He does not have that scenario this season. None of the returning reserves (besides Walker) had any meaningful or extensive playing time. Most of their playing time was confined to the final 3-4 minutes of the 4th quarter. The question we will be asking and debating this summer is who replaces Gabby and Kia, and who will be the 6th man?

CW and ONO will have on the job training this season. "Learn as you go" will be the motto for them this year. I hope they have a season (and career) that will be talked about for years to come. I know it's going to take some time for them to figure things out, but I just can't see these two not being successful this season. Every year there is a freshman sensation somewhere. This year, it can be UConn's turn to have and showcase two diaper dandies.

I'm not predicting anything, but.........it would not surprise me to see one of them become a starter sometime in mid to late January (like Lou did). These are two of the best high school players in country. They were on elite AAU teams that played other elite AAU teams that featured the best players from around the country. These young ladies are ballers, and they both bring a high BB IQ to Storrs with them.

It's going to be fun watching these two play the next 4 years. I can't wait to see Crystal and CW on the floor the first time, to see what kind of "magic" they can produce. Imagine for a moment what kind of excitement and energy they can produce if they're both in a game and "ON" at the same time.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Thanks Milford. I was trying to be politically correct, and not appear to be direct as you are. But, as I take off the gloves......I think you're are 100% correct sir!!! Last year Geno had a strong starting 5 + a 6'6" EXPERIENCED 6th man coming off the bench. He does not have that scenario this season. None of the returning reserves (besides Walker) had any meaningful or extensive playing time. Most of their playing time was confined to the final 3-4 minutes of the 4th quarter. The question we will be asking and debating this summer is who replaces Gabby and Kia, and who will be the 6th man?

CW and ONO will have on the job training this season. "Learn as you go" will be the motto for them this year. I hope they have a season (and career) that will be talked about for years to come. I know it's going to take some time for them to figure things out, but I just can't see these two not being successful this season. Every year there is a freshman sensation somewhere. This year, it can be UConn's turn to have and showcase two diaper dandies.

I'm not predicting anything, but....it would not surprise me to see one of them become a starter sometime in mid to late January (like Lou did). These are two of the best high school players in country. They were on elite AAU teams that played other elite AAU teams that featured the best players from around the country. These young ladies are ballers, and they both bring a high BB IQ to Storrs with them.

It's going to be fun watching these two play the next 4 years. I can't wait to see Crystal and CW on the floor the first time, to see what kind of "magic" they can produce. Imagine for a moment what kind of excitement and energy they can produce if they're both in a game and "ON" at the same time.

Some years, there are a few standout freshmen; some years, there are several. In 2007-08, one stood out so much that she finished second in the AP POY voting. I don’t think we’ll ever see a freshman like Maya (on any team), but I think we can have an impact frosh or two, especially if given the playing time. Stef and Bria did pretty well their first year, and Christyn and Olivia are ranked even higher. The upperclassmen will help get them ready for Canp Geno in 4.5 months.

 

[Los24]

Rebuilding time has finally come to Geno - the chickens they are a coming home to roost after years of dominance. Hopefully, this isn't the start of another "Dark Age" of UConn basketball (post DT & pre-Mayan era - those teams were unwatchable). CW will have to have a monster year offensively & ONO will need to be a defensive stopper if this team has any chance of winning a Title. I'm afraid we're in for a multi-year ND title run. I dont see many teams come close to beating them next year.

Everyone said that no one would touch UConn last year too and that they were gonna lose 10 games the year before after losing top 3 draft choices. All it takes is one misstep ever so slightly in the tourney. Also remember we lost the last two years on last second shots in OT.

It's not like we still aren't a power house with 2 or 3 of the best players in the country (if you count Crystal Dangerfield as top PG.) I also don't see why CW will have to have a monster offensive year when you have two of the best offensive players in the country who will most likely average 20ppg on the team already.

 

[LasVegasYank]

I may be going out on a limb but, IMHO, CW and ONO will be one of the top recruiting classes of all time.

CW has already demonstrated her immense skill set against the best players in the country in her class and ONO has only begun to scratch the surface of her bucket of talent. There is no comparison between these two and last years class. CW alone is better than all of them combined.

CW will start sooner than later and ONO will see significant minutes early on.

Starting lineup early on - Crystal, KLS, CW, MW and Pheesa

 

[MilfordHusky]

I may be going out on a limb but, IMHO, CW and ONO will be one of the top recruiting classes of all time.

CW has already demonstrated her immense skill set against the best players in the country in her class and ONO has only begun to scratch the surface of her bucket of talent. There is no comparison between these two and last years class. CW alone is better than all of them combined.

CW will start sooner than later and ONO will see significant minutes early on.

Starting lineup early on - Crystal, KLS, CW, MW and Pheesa

I agree that this could be a great recruiting class. I wouldn't call CW better than all of last year's frosh, because I think MW is going to be really good, but some folks though that CW was the best player in the nation as a junior. She swept all the NPOY awards and looked good in both AA games. ONO was ranked #1 before her injury. She's a legit 6'5" with a ton of versatility. People say she needs to get stronger, but so did Lou, Pheesa, Stewie, et al. Olivia has strong legs already. If she goes to the weight room with Guns Dangerfield, she'll be fine.

I like your starting lineup, but it's small. I think Liv starts and CW becomes the change-of-pace first sub.

 

[donalddoowop]

Camara will start.

 

[LasVegasYank]

<<I like your starting lineup, but it's small. I think Liv starts>>

I thought about that and balancing the need for height vs possibly damaging ONO's self confidence in a "trial by fire" situation is something the coaches will need to address.

As DDW posted above, Camara may be the answer but her performance last year was spotty, at best.

 

[MilfordHusky]

<<I like your starting lineup, but it's small. I think Liv starts>>

I thought about that and balancing the need for height vs possibly damaging ONO's self confidence in a "trial by fire" situation is something the coaches will need to address.

As DDW posted above, Camara may be the answer but her performance last year was spotty, at best.

The season is 5+ months away. That’s enough time for a lot of learning and improvement. Liv wants to help her team. I don’t think her confidence will be shaken, at least not badly. She knows she’s young and inexperienced.

Camara was erratic last year. Though she has more college experience than Liv, I’m taking the unknown of a very talented freshman over the known limitations of Batouly. I hope BatCam makes big strides, but I’m not expecting her to start.

 

[Bronx23]

It's pretty clear that the two freshman will play significant minutes probably from the beginning of the season. Except for MW, I think the remaining non starters from last year are at best role or support players, which is actually ok.
Assuming good health (hopefully), KLS and Pheesa I believe will each average 18-24 points a game. CD should add being one of, if not the best point guards in the country and 10-14 points a game.
I expect MW to make a solid but not huge jump this year after having figured out what got in her way last year. Either she or CW will start and the other be the 6th player, with Ono needed to start providing size and inside play offensively and defensively. I expect CW to have a much stronger freshman season than MW had, as I see her skill set and self confidence, perfectly complimenting CD in the backcourt.
I also see two or three of the others continuing to improve and playing meaningful support roles. My guess is in this order they will contribute. Kyla is a solid, smart player who gets it, and is not afraid to get in there and just play. Boutaly hopefully will be healthy and help inside and be a bit of the enforcer most teams need. Coombs, also again with health concerns, but her quickness and defensive abilities might truly help at times. The surprise player might be Lexie, who could become a solid backup point guard. Molly brings enormous effort and appears to be a great teammate.
What I'm saying is after the first six they only need the remaining five to take turns adding a bit or more, here and there.
I believe by mid to the later part of the season, they will be a solid FF contender. A national championship while possible, will take many things falling into place, and someone becoming that go to player in serious crunch time in regional finals, semi finals and hopefully championship game. KLS assuming she will be and can remain healthy, might well become that player and then be NPOY. Pheesa right behind her. And CW becoming freshman of the year!
Bronx23

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Camara will start.

I'm leaning in that direction. At her best she can be a beast and she has some quick inside moves that are impressive. Hopefully the leg issues, which became head issues, are behind her. Olivia, Liv, ONO ... wanting her to be good enough to come out and start is natural and I feel the tug of it, but I don't know if it is the best way to bring her along.

 

[Charliebball]

I'm leaning in that direction. At her best she can be a beast and she has some quick inside moves that are impressive. Hopefully the leg issues, which became head issues, are behind her. Olivia, Liv, ONO ... wanting her to be good enough to come out and start is natural and I feel the tug of it, but I don't know if it is the best way to bring her along.

if Batouly plays like she did at Kentucky she has much to contribute.............if she's the player she was last year she's just a helpful backup..........I've got my fingers crossed that she's feeling more like a Wildcat......

 

[JustinesGuy]

I agree that this could be a great recruiting class. I wouldn't call CW better than all of last year's frosh, because I think MW is going to be really good, but some folks though that CW was the best player in the nation as a junior. She swept all the NPOY awards and looked good in both AA games. ONO was ranked #1 before her injury. She's a legit 6'5" with a ton of versatility. People say she needs to get stronger, but so did Lou, Pheesa, Stewie, et al. Olivia has strong legs already. If she goes to the weight room with Guns Dangerfield, she'll be fine.

I like your starting lineup, but it's small. I think Liv starts and CW becomes the change-of-pace first sub.

The best freshman last year was AEH.