Wiggins Trashes WNBA Culture | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Wiggins Trashes WNBA Culture

victor64 said:
She is going to get publicly trashed but I bet privately she gets a lot of support for speaking up. One thing though that she did mention about the WNBA is when they play. People are doing stuff and watching baseball in the spring and summer. Basketball is out of season when they play. If they played in season, college and NBA would kill them in the ratings. Catch 22.
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She played overseas...so she could've just relaxed and rested during the summer if she felt the pay and players were so awful.
 
"Kyrie Irving thinks the world is flat"is just an alternative fact that 98% of 20 month old grandchildren are persuaded into believing by octogenarians who look out the window only on a daily basis. Flat road, flat neighbors, flat dogs, flats, flat pancakes, flat foul shots and flat 3-pointers, flat interest rates at the bank. The world is flat. The flat world view(related to the Gestalt term "Weltangshung") is further supported by the chronic condition of flatulence so common to those of advanced years.

Now that we have used diversion and promoted calmness, we can return to our regularly scheduled program of moral outrage.
 
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It is despicable how many posters accuse Candace of "homophobia." None of you experienced what she experienced. That's more McCarthy like than her throwing out a wrong percentage as if to say "the vast majority," which may or may not be true but is her opinion. I guess she should have said 110% and then all of you would have understood.

As for the WNBA trying to get the women to act like men, as a former coach of girls, I understand what she means. It is a complex subject. Like Geno, I think oftentimes the expectation of females in sports is less and that is wrong. Unlike Geno, who occasionally brings up how he wants them to get nastier (i.e. as the men are) I think there is such a thing as femininity that is natural to who females are and they don't need to play nasty to be great. I think that's what the UConn women have shown us for the most part over the years. Most of you know that one reason you like our Husky women is that they are by and large really nice people. Women can be women and be great as women. Maya is a wonderful example of this. I do not know if she is heterosexual or homosexual, but either way she plays with a distinctly feminine character.
 
I have no idea if Ms. Wiggins is homophobic. However, her comments are deeply worrisome and lend to a valid concern that she is.

The fact that she has supported gay rights issues in the past is evidence of a general view but does not mean that she, at the same time, does not hold homophobic views. For example, there are many people who support women's rights in many respects but still hold some deeply sexist views. The fact that one supports women generally, promotes women in the workplace and even marries a woman does not mean one is free of uninformed and/or deeply sexist views. Sometimes people just haven’t yet connected the dissonance between multiple views they hold.

“98% of the women in the WNBA are gay women.”
Whether or not Ms. Wiggins is homophobic this comment is deeply troubling. Although she may have exaggerated to make a point, her comments likely cast some people as gay who are not. Now some players have to consider whether they publicly broadcast their sexuality or be assumed to be something they are not. They have to calculate whether by proclaiming their sexuality they are helping to demonize those who are gay and are thereby stating that it is somehow bad to be gay ("and therefore I don't want you to think that I am gay"). This may be an unintended, but real, consequence of her speaking so sweepingly (and likely inaccurately) about a group of women.

“People were deliberately trying to hurt me all the time” “I have never been thrown to the ground so much.” “There were horrible things that happened to me every day.”
These are overlooked and deeply troubling statements. If true, that is assault. If true, she is saying by implication that not only did players assault her “all the time” but the coaches, trainers and management, who certainly must have seen this behavior, condoned or promoted it. If this is true, this is a big deal and she should sue those players and teams, if for no other reason than to protect future players. The statute of limitations on some of that behavior has surely not passed. I assume she complained about this to coaches, team officials, the league, her friends and/or family so she will have ample support for her claims and be able to show these are not some newly contrived and reckless complaints. If not, these are dangerous and troubling statements that cast aspersions on multiple people.

“I was proud to be a woman.”
This is troubling for its implication -- gay players are not women or at least are not proud women like her. Otherwise why say it? This is a subtle and deeply homophobic statement in the context of her other statements. Maybe she is supportive of gay rights but she seems to make a distinction between someone who is proud to be a woman … and those others.

On so many fronts, her comments – if reported accurately – were deeply disturbing.
 
Plebe said:
I appreciate these links you tracked down. But I would also submit that homophobia is not a black-and-white, you-are-or-you-aren't type of thing.
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Nice diversion however I stand by my point that people are slapping a convenient label on Wiggins without clear knowledge of what's inside her head. If I claimed someone was narrow minded based on his post in this thread, there would be outrage, rightfully so because I based my opinion on one statement without looking at that person as a whole. How is calling Wiggins a homophobe, not matter whether of the black, white, or grey variety, any different?
 
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lne001 said:
One anecdote on this topic. My niece played and coached basketball from the age of 6 to 33 - playing rec league, AAU, high school, college (Div 3), coaching high school and college.

She is a lesbian, publicly coming out after high school. During a conversation once I asked her what percentage of the female players/coaches in her experience were lesbians. Her answer - 75%. If accurate, I'm sure the WNBA is higher.

I don't see how any of this matters, however.
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At one time there were too many Whites/WASP, then too many Blacks, and now too many Lesbians. How can she be sure that 95% of those volleyball gals showing their mavels and and asses are not Lesbians? Sometimes too many (or whatever number stands in its place) tells more about the speaker and their worldview. Could she not have come-out (no pun) about being an upper middle class girl in what is (becoming) a working class culture/vocation? I won't go back to the article, but why had she not file her lived experiences under the contemporary claim of (sexual)harassment? why place it under the rubric of (the non-political/legal) femaleness? I'm willing to defend harassment claims, but am skepital if you think its not lady/girl-like to dive on the floor for a ball, etc. Which Candice (whom I had been fond of) was more specific-- not about people, but places and instances.
 
I feel bad and sad for Wiggins.

If this was her experience, no one deserves that. Whether you're gay or straight, there should be no bullying. And if this was her experience, good for her for speaking up about it. An action will not stop unless it is acknowledged first.

However, when you are accusing a person, group of people, and an entire league of bullying, it's extremely important to be 100% factual in your claims. Otherwise, the rest of your statements will be looked upon as hearsay.. Then you add in that she is writing a book. The way she went about this is not one that I would suggest.
 
Wiggins takes a very serious matter - bullying - but muddies it up with stuff like "playing like men" and defining femininity. Is she trying to say that she was bullied, in part, for her playing style? She says that she was bullied for being straight. Was she bullied for being "feminine"?

Saying that 98% of the WNBA is lesbian seems like an exaggeration. Maybe it's accurate, maybe not. Is she saying that all lesbian WNBA players she played with bullied her?

Raising the serious issue of bullying deserves both serious discussion and action. But that's difficult without either clarity or a thoughtful well-reasoned presentation.
 
Is anyone surprised that the WNBA is predominantly filled with gay players. It may not be 98% but I would bet its around 70-75%.

Like it or not, it is one of the reasons the league has a lot of trouble gaining a more mainstream following.
 
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I don't know what the sexual orientations of WNBA players are and it really shouldn't matter. Nobody is paying them for that. They are BB players. And as a team, they should be able to work together regardless of orientation. However, I believe that in some locker rooms some bullying occurs. Lots of examples in sports. I doubt that it is generally over this issue but over perceived competition or that a player is felt not to be playing hard enough or contributing to the team. It may be that Wiggins perceives this to be worse for her as she feels "different". Would be interesting to hear former teammates takes on this.

The "being thrown down" stuff I took in the context of rough game play. I hope she was not reporting physical abuse off the court.

The concern about playing "like a woman" bothers me. What does that mean? Is less physical necessarily feminine? While I prefer a less physical game, I don't perceive it as a feminine issue. Otherwise I don't understand what she means. This part of her statements probably bothers me the most.

I suspect she felt that she didn't fit in with her teammates in the WNBA. It is too bad that the social atmosphere was not one she could embrace. But it doesn't mean anyone is "wrong". I imagine on most teams it is also more of a black culture than white due to the personnel. Hopefully in all cases the "minority" players are not abused in any way. Ideally teams find a way for inclusion in all aspects, but we know this does not always happen. These are the Pros and they are expected to do their jobs and work with others for the betterment of the team. You don't have to like everyone.
 
HuskyNan said:
Nice diversion however I stand by my point that people are slapping a convenient label on Wiggins without clear knowledge of what's inside her head. If I claimed someone was narrow minded based on his post in this thread, there would be outrage, rightfully so because I based my opinion on one statement without looking at that person as a whole. How is calling Wiggins a homophobe, not matter whether of the black, white, or grey variety, any different?
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Wiggins invoked a persistent and harmful stereotype about women's sports generally and the WNBA specifically - the players are lesbians and straight women are unwelcome. In doing so, she made a blatantly false statement, i.e."98 percent".

I don't know if she is a homophobe or not, but she made false statements and propagated a hurtful stereotype about women's sports and gay athletes. I didn't use that word but I understand why others might. If I see a two-legged waterfowl walking around and quacking, I'm not going to consult a biologist before using the word "duck".
 
I've read a lot of criticism on male college bball boards re the WNBA and women's college bball. These boards tend to be pretty blunt and "non-PC". I have never read a post stating that they don't want to watch lesbians. Never. Those not watching/attending fall into two groups with a big overlap between the two: 1) They don't like the style of play - far prefer the above-the-rim dash-and-flash men's game and find the women's game "boring" 2) Play in the wrong time of year, summer is baseball season.
 
Ten years ago I dated a woman who had been a trainer for the New York Liberty. She described the locker room atmosphere as one in which she was "hit on" constantly and that some players made her uncomfortable (I won't repeat their language) by expressing how desirable she was. She said that the majority of the Liberty's players were lesbians but that not all of them were sexually aggressive towards her. She eventually went to management (yes - to Isaiah himself!) and was re-assigned to the Knicks.
 
FASTEDDY said:
Is anyone surprised that the WNBA is predominantly filled with gay players. It may not be 98% but I would bet its around 70-75%.

Like it or not, it is one of the reasons the league has a lot of trouble gaining a more mainstream following.
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Do you really think that the player's sexual orientation is the reason for low attendance? I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that the majority of male sports fans aren't interested in women's sports and there are not sufficient numbers of women sports fans to fill big arenas never mind most college gyms.
I was watching the Maryland/Ohio State game and noted that the gym was more then half empty.......who wouldn't want to see a game with those two exciting offensive teams and probably only have to pay 10-20 bucks a ticket ?

I'll be the first to admit that I rarely watched women's sports until my daughter started to participate in them during grade school...........even today, I attend high school and college games but have no great interest in attending a WNBA game unless ex UConn players are involved.............
 
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Trappist said:
Ten years ago I dated a woman who had been a trainer for the New York Liberty. She described the locker room atmosphere as one in which she was "hit on" constantly and that some players made her uncomfortable (I won't repeat their language) by expressing how desirable she was. She said that the majority of the Liberty's players were lesbians but that not all of them were sexually aggressive towards her. She eventually went to management (yes - to Isaiah himself!) and was re-assigned to the Knicks.
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Wow, a female trainer was moved from a woman's team to men's team to avoid sexual harassment? That's ironic.

You don't say but was it a better environment working for the Knicks?
 
CL82 said:
Wow, a female trainer was moved from a woman's team to men's team to avoid sexual harassment? That's ironic.

You don't say but was it a better environment working for the Knicks?
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Much better. She socialized with a number of the players and their wives. She took a player and his wife on a tour of NYC and on their first visit to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. She worked for the Knicks for about a year and then went into private practice.
 
I don't have a clue about Wiggens' motives or how she feels about gays. What I do know is that the kind of harassment she alleges really happens. The same sort of thing goes on in the military, although I would guess that the ratio of gay to straight is much different in the military, it is probably closer to the general population.

The reality is, despite the political incorrectness, that many lesbians are very sexually aggressive and fit the behaviors that Wiggens describes.
 
Plebe said:
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j66kicker said:
Glory Johnson had two babies in the past year - which side does she count on?
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I have no idea what percentage of women in the WNBA (or basketball in general) are gay. I would imagine it's high, perhaps very high. But for those of you posting that players have had babies in the last year, what do you think that proves? You might want to "THINK" before you answer.
 
Wbbfan1 said:
So many are Quick to Discredit Candice's Words, but if it was a member of the LGBT Community saying she was bullied, they quickly agree,. even if they don't know all the facts/situation.
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I'm not trying to dismiss her perspective - only she and her teammates know what happened, and you should always consider why the environment made someone feel uncomfortable.

But when she makes a statement like "98% of WNBA players are gay" in the same interview where she's promoting her autobiography, it becomes a little tough to take her words at face value.
 
Charliebball said:
Do you really think that the player's sexual orientation is the reason for low attendance? I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that the majority of male sports fans aren't interested in women's sports and there are not sufficient numbers of women sports fans to fill big arenas never mind most college gyms.
I was watching the Maryland/Ohio State game and noted that the gym was more then half empty..who wouldn't want to see a game with those two exciting offensive teams and probably only have to pay 10-20 bucks a ticket ?

I'll be the first to admit that I rarely watched women's sports until my daughter started to participate in them during grade school......even today, I attend high school and college games but have no great interest in attending a WNBA game unless ex UConn players are involved...
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No one is making the case that their sexual orientation is the only reason for low attendance. But, right or wrong, men's sports are watched by women in part because some of them find the men attractive and fantasize about them. That is often how male athletes have been marketed. Some men are not going to watch women who they cannot see as being interested in someone like them. Once again, right or wrong, that's the way many people are. Which translates into numbers of eyes on the game. Furthermore, about half of America sees homosexuality as distasteful or even wrong. That is a large number of people. Call them what you want, they are really there.
 
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Huskylove3 said:
I feel bad and sad for Wiggins.
If this was her experience, no one deserves that. Whether you're gay or straight, there should be no bullying. And if this was her experience, good for her for speaking up about it. An action will not stop unless it is acknowledged first. However, when you are accusing a person, group of people, and an entire league of bullying, it's extremely important to be 100% factual in your claims. Otherwise, the rest of your statements will be looked upon as hearsay.. Then you add in that she is writing a book. The way she went about this is not one that I would suggest.
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No one deserves to be bullied because of sexual orientation. That word bullying is too readily applied to situations that do not deserve it, usually to create an emotional response. All professional leagues have a rights of passage which could easily be spun as bullying. For example NBA rookies are required to bring donuts and coffee to morning practices. Candace Wiggins is a Stanford educated woman who was in the WNBA for almost a decade. If bullying did happen, Candace was smart enough to recognize it, was more than capable of speaking out well before she decide that she was done with the WNBA and wanted to sell books.
 
Clearly Candace was not comfortable in the league and this story is about that. In my opinion all the general statements she makes are likely based on real feelings and her single experience which is a narrow point of view framed by her own view of the situation. I don't believe taking it as a blanket description of the league is right but clearly that's what is presented here.

My grandmother had 5 kids. 2 of those five kids felt that they had the best upbringing ever; the next 2 felt that my grandmother did the best she could and felt that they had stable and loving environment but it was a little strict but agree that it could have been worse; and 1 spent her whole life degrading and blaming everyone else in the house for her terrible upbringing. She blamed them for her having to grow up in a house that was too strict for her which made her go out and marry the first guy who offered to marry her and was subsequently in a very bad marriage.

I'm just saying I am sure that the WNBA is not perfect, far from it but it I'm sure also isn't for everyone. The decision to stay and play was hers. And I am sure that there could have been other factors that played into her issues with teammates. I followed her alot online when she first went into the league and she was clear on who she was and what her point of views were. But hey, maybe she's perfect and no one else is.

That what my aunt thinks, everyone else made life tough for her. And til this day she's never done anything wrong or questionable to anyone. lol.

Not saying she didn't have a rough time, but this is clearly a very narrow POV and one sided story.
 
vowelguy said:
Who has criticized her Feelings?

I criticized her use of a patently false number. THAT calls her honesty into question.

I don't doubt that she didn't fit in well. I doubt the reasons were as tidy as she suggests.
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I was not suggesting that you were. I was just commenting off your thread post with my general thoughts on the matter. Apologize if it was taken differently. My point was how can anyone state she is wrong or right because they were not there, nor do they have the context of the perceived bullying. To dismiss it as if its totally false because she was using hyperbole to stress a point is naive; but also to think she may not be exaggerating in certain areas because she was hurt in some manner is equally naive. Need to get more info..... that's it.
 
Orangutan said:
Wiggins invoked a persistent and harmful stereotype about women's sports generally and the WNBA specifically - the players are lesbians and straight women are unwelcome. In doing so, she made a blatantly false statement, i.e."98 percent".

I don't know if she is a homophobe or not, but she made false statements and propagated a hurtful stereotype about women's sports and gay athletes. I didn't use that word but I understand why others might. If I see a two-legged waterfowl walking around and quacking, I'm not going to consult a biologist before using the word "duck".
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So only homophobes can make stupid statements?

I'm not defending Wiggins's statements - they were stupid and obnoxious - but they don't prove she's a homophobe, especially given her past support of the LGBQ community.
 
HuskyNan said:
So only homophobes can make stupid statements?
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Not only did I not say that, it's an intentional distortion of what I did say - "I don't know if she is a homphobe or not".

Reminder - Donald Sterling received a lifetime achievement award from the NAACP and was scheduled to get a second before his racism was exposed. The fact that she made pro-gay statements in the past does not preclude her from being a homophobe in the present.

NAACP reverses decision to give Donald Sterling a Lifetime Achievement Award
 
Well if Candice is trolling or hyping to create interest in her book, it looks like it's working on the BY. However, as of last night, the original interviewer - San Diego Union-Tribune - was the only publication I could find carrying the story. This morning there are articles from Deadspin, The Guardian and SFGate, but all they do is quote the Union-Tribune story. ESPNW hasn't touched it so far - either with an article, video rant or even the published tweets down the right side. I wonder if they plan to just ignore it.
 
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