Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[upstater]

But this made perfect sense to you. I give up.

I didn't write that.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Go reread your posts and then get back to me. The idea you would lecture people after what you wrote to mattp is totally preposterous.

"Anyone who thinks covering up a serial rapist is not deserving of punishment needs to re-think their priorities."

Anyone who covered up a serial rapist is about to be convicted or let go in a criminal court. Did Mattp or anyone else say they deserve to go unpunished?

You are saying there should be less punishment. I am saying there should be more. Criminal penalties should not be the only penalties that attach. Penn State as an organization acted in a corrupt and fraudulent manner that resulted in years of continued sexual assaults on children. Penn State did this in order to protect the reputation of the organization and the football team. The organization should get punished.

The fans of Penn State do not have the RIGHT to have a Top 20 football program, especially if the price is serial child rape. If Penn State fans are so inclined, they can root for the program after it comes back from the death penalty.

 

[upstater]

The same reason it wasn't reported earlier.

It was reported. You're referring to the first PSU incident, correct? That was reported.

 

[upstater]

You are saying there should be less punishment. I am saying there should be more. Criminal penalties should not be the only penalties that attach. Penn State as an organization acted in a corrupt and fraudulent manner that resulted in years of continued sexual assaults on children. Penn State did this in order to protect the reputation of the organization and the football team. The organization should get punished.

The fans of Penn State do not have the RIGHT to have a Top 20 football program, especially if the price is serial child rape. If Penn State fans are so inclined, they can root for the program after it comes back from the death penalty.

No, you are putting words in people's mouth. A lot of this is just fantasy that's in your head.

 

[upstater]

i think you hit on the even bigger issue, and that's all the people in the police department, local government, prosecutors, etc. that helped this cover up either explicitly or by looking the other way. people at PennState did report this at one point and it was still swept under the rug for over a decade

Or, perhaps, the psychologist who interviewed the kid recommended that they not prosecute, or the current state prosecutor of the Sandusky case--at the time, a state assistant AG who recommended that they not prosecute after conducting an investigation reviewed by her boss (AG at the time and current governor). Or, even child services at the time recommended no prosecution. And why? Maybe because the kid and his mother defended Sandusky--as they continue to do to this day.

All these people erred in their judgment back in 1998-1999. A few have even expressed remorse.

Or, yes, otherwise it could also be a conspiracy.

 

[upstater]

How did they generate a perjury accusation?

They testified before the grand jury last year.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

i think you hit on the even bigger issue, and that's all the people in the police department, local government, prosecutors, etc. that helped this cover up either explicitly or by looking the other way. people at PennState did report this at one point and it was still swept under the rug for over a decade

Penn State covered this up for over a decade. To claim that some person said something to someone in authority, and that therefore absolves everyone at Penn State of any blame is disgusting. Let me make this as crystal clear as possible:

PENN STATE CONCEALED A PEDOPHILE FOR ALMOST TWO DECADES WHILE HE CONTINUED TO RAPE CHILDREN.

Anyone else's responsibility should be irrelevant to what happens to Penn State. As far as Penn State is concerned, there should be no "bigger issue". No one else matters, because the decision makers at Penn State knew about this activity, making them 100% responsible for every single rape that happened. Anyone else's responsibility is their responsibility, not an excuse for Penn State.

 

[CL82]

. if the AD for a school murders his neighbor b/c he found out his wife was cheating with him, should the NCAA get involved?

Sure, if athletic department and or university officials covered up the murder in order to protect the reputation of the football program, yes, yes they should, especially if it is found to be a part of larger history of interfering with athlete punishment to preserve the reputation of the program. Of course that should only happen after the murderer and any co-conspirators after the fact are brought to justice.

 

[CL82]

Good point. I have no doubt that people are going to demand an NCAA investigation after this.

I'm less confident of that than you.

 

[mattp]

But this made perfect sense to you. I give up.

if you don't understand my mall analogy, let me put it this way. if a high school kid walks into his high school and shoots a teacher, whose job is it to punish the student? is he going to be arrested and tried for murder, or is he going down to the guidance counselor and principal to be suspended? the NCAA is the worthless guidance counselor and principal in this analogy. do you get it now? i'm not saying you have to agree, but do you at least see where some of us are coming from?

also as much as some here say "PennState" enabled it, PennState is an institution of over million people if you include alumni, over 100k if you include students and faculty. i doubt more than a dozen are responsible, some of whom didn't work at PSU, but in local law enforcement, so no "PennState" didn't allow this, a few administrators did, and i hope they're punished to the fullest extent of the law

 

[upstater]

if you don't understand my mall analogy, let me put it this way. if a high school kid walks into his high school and shoots a teacher, whose job is it to punish the student? is he going to be arrested and tried for murder, or is he going down to the guidance counselor and principal to be suspended? the NCAA is the worthless guidance counselor and principal in this analogy. do you get it now? i'm not saying you have to agree, but do you at least see where some of us are coming from?

For some people, not only should the NCAA be an arbiter, but the NCAA should create rules that guide universities in how to handle crime investigations.

 

[Adios]

I hate to say this, but dwelling on this is like a dog chasing it's tail.

 

[mattp]

also, i hope anyone that's advocating the death penalty is also advocating that the Catholic church lose it's non-profit status, tax treatment and be disbarred from any appearances as an organization in public. i think they are probably the truest comparison in terms of crime, scope, and supposedly accountable people looking the other way.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Lying to the grand jury.

What did they lie about?

 

[NHUConnfan]

It's not like these people are not going to be punished. Geez! There are multiple people who are going to be locked up for the rest of their lives. That's more than any NCAA judgment could do.

And again, this does not fall under the "lack of institutional control" as defined by the NCAA.

 

[Carl Spackler]

For some people, not only should the NCAA be an arbiter, but the NCAA should create rules that guide universities in how to handle crime investigations.

I'll take that as some ridiculous shot at me.

I firmly believe that Sandusky would be in shackles a long time ago, if the powers at Penn State, felt threatened at all by an organization like the NCAA......and it makes me sick.

That those powers didn't apparently feel the need to properly investigate a serial pedophile, that police, district attorneys, governors very likely closed doors and buried their heads in the sand, but may have done more had the NCAA threatened the athletic department with major sanctions....is my opinion only. It's a conclusion I've come to on my own, and it makes me sick.

No - upstater - the NCAA shouldn't have to be in position to legislate on criminal matters - but the culture of Penn State has apparently made it something that the NCAA should have to address, and that should make you ashamed.

I believe, that by the NCAA putting a simple line in the 439 page manual, stating that knowledge or evidence of suspected criminal behavior by representatives of the athletic departments of member institutions, occurring on university premises, or at university athletic functions, or at university athletic facilites, should be properly reported to authorities....if that existed -....... - it's highly, HIGHLY likely that a guy like Sandusky isn't just given a pink slip and corner closet office at Penn State for over a decade, and the souls of innocent children could have been spared of the torture inflicted and to be endured.

Penn State people simply don't want to believe that Joe Paterno very likely made a conscious choice to handle Jerry Sandusky in-house, and used every bit of his executive, legislative, judicial and social influence to do it.

I'm letting my emotions get control of me again on this, and it makes me want to beat the out of somebody. Enough wading through the cesspool that is Penn State's involvement with Jerry Sandusky today for me.

 

[upstater]

Penn State, judging by the way things shook out for the Catholic Church, is going to lose tens of millions per victim, easily over $100 million. The idea that the NCAA is going to be some kind of deterrent in a case like this is laughable. PSU, and by PSU I'm talking about the three principals in this case (I'm including Spanier on the assumption that he's going to be indicted), screwed up royally. The idea that they had any clue about this exposure is hard to imagine.

 

[upstater]

What did they lie about?

About what McQueary told them. They claim McQueary did not tell them about the rape.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You are saying there should be less punishment. I am saying there should be more. Criminal penalties should not be the only penalties that attach. Penn State as an organization acted in a corrupt and fraudulent manner that resulted in years of continued sexual assaults on children. Penn State did this in order to protect the reputation of the organization and the football team. The organization should get punished.

The fans of Penn State do not have the RIGHT to have a Top 20 football program, especially if the price is serial child rape. If Penn State fans are so inclined, they can root for the program after it comes back from the death penalty.

I actually agree with Nelson here. The problem is, that to my knowledge, there's nothign the NCAA has to go on to punish the penn state athletic department for whatever involvement is proven with Sandusky's sexual abuse of boys.

The conclusion, again, that I have reached....is that the only reason that Sandusky wasn't shackled a long time ago....is because the athletic department at Penn State never felt threatened by choosing to handle things the way they did, AND that the culture of that community was such that it could be handled the way it was handled for so long. If a college community ever deserved a death penalty to its division 1-A football program, it is Penn State. But the NCAA f9cked up with SMU in 1987.

It makes me sick and makes me never want to go to State College, PA again. It's worse than a Stephen King novel about some small community somewhere in Maine.

 

[Carl Spackler]

About what McQueary told them. They claim McQueary did not tell them about the rape.

So if McQuery didn't tell them - how did they find out about it?

 

[MilliniumPrince]

if you don't understand my mall analogy, let me put it this way. if a high school kid walks into his high school and shoots a teacher, whose job is it to punish the student? is he going to be arrested and tried for murder, or is he going down to the guidance counselor and principal to be suspended? the NCAA is the worthless guidance counselor and principal in this analogy. do you get it now? i'm not saying you have to agree, but do you at least see where some of us are coming from?

also as much as some here say "PennState" enabled it, PennState is an institution of over million people if you include alumni, over 100k if you include students and faculty. i doubt more than a dozen are responsible, some of whom didn't work at PSU, but in local law enforcement, so no "PennState" didn't allow this, a few administrators did, and i hope they're punished to the fullest extent of the law

In this example the student would be expelled from said school even if it was a moot point due to his imprisonment.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Sold!!

Though I am not advocating for the death penalty...but it should be on the table if warranted after a full investigation.

 

[upstater]

So if McQuery didn't tell them - how did they find out about it?

They claim they found out about it during the grand jury testimony.

 

[upstater]

In this example the student would be expelled from said school even if it was a moot point due to his imprisonment.

All the principals and even people associated with the football program and even assistant athletic directors are gone from PSU. New President, new veeps, new ADs, new football coaches, new assistant ADs, new lawyers.

 

[Carl Spackler]

They claim they found out about it during the grand jury testimony.

Can you take a step back and see the forest now, or do I have to continue with the questions? Never mind let's continue.

How is it, that these individuals who are accused of perjury, may not have found out about an assistant coach telling the head coach, that he saw another assistant coach butt f8cking a boy in the shower of the football facility until a grand jury testimony a decade later?

 

[Carl Spackler]

All the principals and even people associated with the football program and even assistant athletic directors are gone from PSU. New President, new veeps, new ADs, new football coaches, new assistant ADs, new lawyers.

so? How come it didn't happen the morning that JoePa failed to put Sandusky in jail?

 

[Jimdish255]

For some people, not only should the NCAA be an arbiter, but the NCAA should create rules that guide universities in how to handle crime investigations.

Talk about putting words in people's mouths. Try to stay on some point. Just pick one you like and then make up the rest.

 

[Jimdish255]

also, i hope anyone that's advocating the death penalty is also advocating that the Catholic church lose it's non-profit status, tax treatment and be disbarred from any appearances as an organization in public. i think they are probably the truest comparison in terms of crime, scope, and supposedly accountable people looking the other way.

That's a good point and I'd probably agree, then duck for cover. Gotta go. Try to settle this soon gentlemen.

 

[upstater]

Can you take a step back and see the forest now, or do I have to continue with the questions? Never mind let's continue.

How is it, that these individuals who are accused of perjury, may not have found out about an assistant coach telling the head coach, that he saw another assistant coach butt f8cking a boy in the shower of the football facility until a grand jury testimony a decade later?

The assistant coach has said he never told the head coach that. He even testified to that under oath last week. The head coach said that the assistant told him that something of a sexual nature occurred. The assistant verified that. Then the assistant said he was more explicit with the administrators. The administrators claim he was not. We shall see whom jurors find more trustworthy soon.

The real question is not, can I take a step back, but can you get your facts straight?

Dr. Dranov testifies today, by the way.

 

[upstater]

so? How come it didn't happen the morning that JoePa failed to put Sandusky in jail?

I'm responding to the previous post where the poster said these people should be expelled. What part of that do you not understand?