Why is this team playing so far below it's talent level?

[7774]

The good days when we knew our young players would come back the next year improved from the last are long gone. There is something seriously wrong with player development and it's become obvious with our current upperclassmen stinking up the joint. That's why it's really hard to be excited about our freshmen despite the high rankings because the last few years have taught us that what they are now might be what they will be by the time they're done here.

You don't think Jalen has improved from last year?

 

[pnow15]

He's a natural PG. Why would anyone think he's a SG? He's our best player, including the people who are injured.

He has a time not turning the ball over when he passes it.

 

[FartMan69]

You don't think Jalen has improved from last year?

I was referring to our upperclassmen. We don't develop like we used to

 

[7774]

I was referring to our upperclassmen. We don't develop like we used to

The upperclassmen are the guys we could get while on recruiting restrictions with a coach that hadn't had a lot of time to build up all the relationships necessary to recruit at a high level in college basketball. They're just not good. Ollie could obviously be coaching better, but how do people not grasp this?

 

[FartMan69]

The upperclassmen are the guys we could get while on recruiting restrictions with a coach that hadn't had a lot of time to build up all the relationships necessary to recruit at a high level in college basketball. They're just not good. Ollie could obviously be coaching better, but how do people not grasp this?

Pervis was a McDonald's AA right?
Facey was a top 100 recruit right?
Restrictions aside shouldn't players get even a little better with experience/coaching?

 

[jibsey]

Didn't both Facey and Brimah begin playing basketball later than usual? Aside from being string beans maybe that has been a factor.

 

[FartMan69]

Didn't both Facey and Brimah begin playing basketball later than usual? Aside from being string beans maybe that has been a factor.

That's correct but UConn has a history with finding inexperienced big men and developing them. Some more than others

 

[mauconnfan]

The coaching is frustrating for me.
The simply things they are not doing is
scary to me.

A couple of examples:

How they struggle to just inbound the ball at times is baffling to me. Forget the idea of scoring on an inbound play, they have trouble getting it in.

KO always talks about fast break points.
Ever notice when the bigs do get a rebound that the guards run to the bigs to get the ball. Rarely do the bigs give a great outlet to a guard in stride filling a lane. That is poor coaching.

Little things matter.

And for fucc sake the next time Purvis steps out of bounds can you take him out of the fuccing game. sorry that one just burns my aas.

#1 you have a great point we've been saying this. In bounds plays suck, we used to score off the them, very frustrating.

#2 not on coaching, they have no one who can throw an outlet pass nor can you trust them too. Can't teach that sorry they either have the ability or they don't. And guess what?

#3 The Purvis thing is annoying and all on him. How can you now know where you are on the court? I mean I get once or twice but 100? Awful

 

[7774]

Pervis was a McDonald's AA right?
Facey was a top 100 recruit right?
Restrictions aside shouldn't players get even a little better with experience/coaching?

LOL, who cares what their high school accolades were? It was obvious when Purvis was at NCST that he wasn't on the level of a McD AA. That's one of the main reasons why we got him. He got taken out of the starting lineup and they had other recruits coming in that were going to play over him, so he transferred.

And honestly, all those guys have had small improvements (Purvis, Facey, Brimah). Purvis started as a guy who would step out of bounds unprompted once every 2-3 games his sophomore year. Last year I would say he did that once every 5-6 games, and hopefully it will be even less this year. Sadly, that is improvement.

The problem there isn't lack of improvement, the problem is we brought in a guy whose starting level was someone who steps out of bounds unprompted once every 2-3 games. You don't see Jalen Adams doing that, and what's the more likely reason for the difference between Jalen and Rodney in that area? That Jalen gets the real coaching and KO is trying to screw Rodney, or that Rodney has terrible spacial awareness when he is on the basketball court and there is just not much any coaching can do to overcome it.

 

[mauconnfan]

That's correct but UConn has a history with finding inexperienced big men and developing them. Some more than others

It's unfortunate the 2 seniors have the same bball intelligence but they do. Impossible task if you watch 4 years later as all the little things which are so important to their craft aren't better. No ton the coaching, did the best they could with these guys. Rodney too, they have a senior class of they are what they are and that must be a lot more frustrating for the coaches than us.

 

[Mr. French]

Everyone on the "anti-Ollie development" train keeps pointing to our rich history of developing players, and how Ollie has failed ...

I don't disagree with a lot of the points, but the problem is, even if true, that means he's failed on a few recruits, a few recruiting classes, which some had asterisks as far as sanctions, etc...

So ALL of Ollies recruits are ___, and ALL of Ollies big men are ___, and How many of Calhoun's were ___ .... Well, you're comparing 30+ years of hall of fame coaching and program building vs the first 5 years replacing a hall of famer...

The sample sizes and examples are quite different and make the analogy a BIT skewed...

 

[FartMan69]

LOL, who cares what their high school accolades were? It was obvious when Purvis was at NCST that he wasn't on the level of a McD AA. That's one of the main reasons why we got him. He got taken out of the starting lineup and they had other recruits coming in that were going to play over him, so he transferred.

And honestly, all those guys have had small improvements (Purvis, Facey, Brimah). Purvis started as a guy who would step out of bounds unprompted once every 2-3 games his sophomore year. Last year I would say he did that once every 5-6 games, and hopefully it will be even less this year. Sadly, that is improvement.

The problem there isn't lack of improvement, the problem is we brought in a guy whose starting level was someone who steps out of bounds unprompted once every 2-3 games. You don't see Jalen Adams doing that, and what's the more likely reason for the difference between Jalen and Rodney in that area? That Jalen gets the real coaching and KO is trying to screw Rodney, or that Rodney has terrible spacial awareness when he is on the basketball court and there is just not much any coaching can do to overcome it.

So you were you warning everyone on this board about Purvis's low ceiling before the '14-'15 season? You expected such small improvement? It was that obvious to you? My original argument is that our upperclassmen haven't improved at the level we're accustomed to.. they haven't.

 

[dennismenace]

He's got to tighten his handle because his only chance is as a PG, IMO.

Also needs to use the left hand. For a guard this is a necessity at some point. Amazingly, Enoch has mastered this.

 

[7774]

So you were you warning everyone on this board about Purvis's low ceiling before the '14-'15 season? You expected such small improvement? It was that obvious to you? My original argument is that our upperclassmen haven't improved at the level we're accustomed to.. they haven't.

I certainly didn't think we were getting some amazing McD AA level player, that's for sure.

I'm fine with your argument, and would agree. I just don't think it's all on the coaching. We're talking about a guy who STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS UNPROMPTED ONCE EVERY 2-3 GAMES HIS FIRST YEAR. If that didn't make it obvious that he would never be a great player even if he had the benefit of great coaching, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Mr. French]

I can't blame certain players' inability to develop on Ollie.

I've seen examples of the philosophies he teaches in practice, and the last 2 years of guys just haven't gotten it.

That's on everyone, at a certain level. And if it continues for the next 2-3 classes/lineups,then these issues are PROBLEMS.

With the players we've seen this lacking, I'm thinking based on watching them play that they aren't highly intelligent players, basketball-speaking, and his teachings have not soaked in.

I've seen it first hand in HS players, and from afar I've seen it in college programs...there's no reason not to think it's just a few players he probably thought he could teach and supplement their athleticism and skill, but it hasn't translated fully.

Long story short, a guy like Purvis just doesn't seem to get certain things. Some guys have it innately and the teaching and coaching they get makes them explode as players. Some never do.

 

[King Husky]

I'm an Ollie defender myself but I have to say a pattern we've seen with respect to his recent teams is that the whole has consistently been less than the sum of its parts.

I hear you re individual players underachieving. It's incredible to me how bad Purvis has played. And to see such little improvement in Brimah's game is astounding. It's shocking, really. Is he any better than he was as a freshman? Without DHam lobbing him the ball, his offense is gone. And he couldn't even finish the alley-oop he got the other night!

But did you really expect Brimah to improve that much and transform into a capable offensive player? He simply doesn't have the coordination to ever be a great basketball player. I would argue that within the constraints of his physical deficiencies (poor hand-eye, slow feet, etc.), Brimah has made the most improvement of anyone on the team this year. And I commend him for that effort and the intensity he plays with. I just can't have much of a gripe about someone who plays as hard as he does.

 

[nomar]

But did you really expect Brimah to improve that much and transform into a capable offensive player? He simply doesn't have the coordination to ever be a great basketball player. I would argue that within the constraints of his physical deficiencies (poor hand-eye, slow feet, etc.), Brimah has made the most improvement of anyone on the team this year. And I commend him for that effort and the intensity he plays with. I just can't have much of a gripe about someone who plays as hard as he does.

I'm talking about his lack of improvement from 3 seasons ago. No, by this offseason, I'd given up faith that he'd become a good rebounder or a plus offensive player. But after his freshman year, I was very excited. As for this year, I'm not sure what improvement you're talking about.

Great kid. Not bashing him. He's a great shot blocker and he can finish around the rim. But that goes for him as a freshman.

 

[King Husky]

I'm talking about his lack of improvement from 3 seasons ago. No, by this offseason, I'd given up faith that he'd become a good rebounder or a plus offensive player. But after his freshman year, I was very excited. As for this year, I'm not sure what improvement you're talking about.

Great kid. Not bashing him. He's a great shot blocker and he can finish around the rim. But that goes for him as a freshman.

I'm mostly referring to his moderately improved rebounding this year, which is apparent both in the stats and by watching his tenacity going after the boards that he never used to have. He's no Jeff Adrien, but still a notable improvement compared to the other guys.

 

[Rewster]

#1 you have a great point we've been saying this. In bounds plays suck, we used to score off the them, very frustrating.

#2 not on coaching, they have no one who can throw an outlet pass nor can you trust them too. Can't teach that sorry they either have the ability or they don't. And guess what?

#3 The Purvis thing is annoying and all on him. How can you now know where you are on the court? I mean I get once or twice but 100? Awful

Respectfully disagree on #2.
That is teachable and after 4 years it should have been taught.
Guards should not have to run back to the bigs to get the ball.
If Ollie thought the bigs did not have the ability to make a simply outlet pass he should not have said this team is going to be a fast break team the year.

 

[mauconnfan]

Respectfully disagree on #2.
That is teachable and after 4 years it should have been taught.
Guards should not have to run back to the bigs to get the ball.
If Ollie thought the bigs did not have the ability to make a simply outlet pass he should not have said this team is going to be a fast break team the year.

Love ya Rewster but there is no way in hell you would EVER see an overhead pass to half court to a guard from AB, no shot. Or even a power dribble out quick to throw a regular pass up the sideline 20 feet to a guard. He's awful passing the ball and the instincts to rebound and immediately look up court ready to fire, well he has no instincts. It's chore to gain position and get a rebound without losing it, you can't ask him to throw it 20-40feet we would be a turnover machine. Facey either, hopefully Enoch as he's strong enough but again not instinctive for now. Remember it's not like practice where they practice it I am sure, it's about catching it ready to make the throw, if you hesitate the outlet is gone. This team has no one I would even want to see try, just not able. Actually ever see him even throw like a chest pass or alike from the right side? No zip, too challenged to learn that I am afraid. We haven't had anyone in a long long time.

 

[Rewster]

Love ya Rewster but there is no way in hell you would EVER see an overhead pass to half court to a guard from AB, no shot. Or even a power dribble out quick to throw a regular pass up the sideline 20 feet to a guard. He's awful passing the ball and the instincts to rebound and immediately look up court ready to fire, well he has no instincts. It's chore to gain position and get a rebound without losing it, you can't ask him to throw it 20-40feet we would be a turnover machine. Facey either, hopefully Enoch as he's strong enough but again not instinctive for now. Remember it's not like practice where they practice it I am sure, it's about catching it ready to make the throw, if you hesitate the outlet is gone. This team has no one I would even want to see try, just not able. Actually ever see him even throw like a chest pass or alike from the right side? No zip, too challenged to learn that I am afraid. We haven't had anyone in a long long time.

I agree with your current assment of their inability to create the fast break.
We will have to disagree that after 4 years they should have/could have have been coached / conditioned enough(strength wise)to do it correctly. I don't feel that particular talent is exclusive to inate ability.

 

[blackbird]

We overrated our talent.

Our only shooters are freshman, and freshman tend to struggle with that.
We've got no offensive options for bigmen.
And we've got Adams.
And also we're young.

 

[nomar]

I'm mostly referring to his moderately improved rebounding this year, which is apparent both in the stats and by watching his tenacity going after the boards that he never used to have. He's no Jeff Adrien, but still a notable improvement compared to the other guys.

I guessed that's what you meant. He's played some very small teams so we'll see if the stats hold.

 

[mauconnfan]

I agree with your current assment of their inability to create the fast break.
We will have to disagree that after 4 years they should have/could have have been coached / conditioned enough(strength wise)to do it correctly. I don't feel that particular talent is exclusive to inate ability.

Agree to disagree but no way you can tell me they haven't tried to get AB to throw an outlet pass or learn to in practice.. They do coach believe it or not, he is just unable. Remember another point on a longer pass, he has to read the defense be sure no one is around or within range to anticipate - you've watched him enough this also goes with instincts in order to complete this play - he has little to none. Please don't think the staff wouldn't want him doing it if he actually was capable.

We need guys with instincts and ability because this is a very important part of the program. You have some people who can get out and go yet you can't throw it 30 feet to give them an advantage? Oh and how many chances is he going to get on 4 rebounds anyway - rather have him become a better rebounder than passer! LOL

 

[HuskyHawk]

Love ya Rewster but there is no way in hell you would EVER see an overhead pass to half court to a guard from AB, no shot. Or even a power dribble out quick to throw a regular pass up the sideline 20 feet to a guard. He's awful passing the ball and the instincts to rebound and immediately look up court ready to fire, well he has no instincts. It's chore to gain position and get a rebound without losing it, you can't ask him to throw it 20-40feet we would be a turnover machine. Facey either, hopefully Enoch as he's strong enough but again not instinctive for now. Remember it's not like practice where they practice it I am sure, it's about catching it ready to make the throw, if you hesitate the outlet is gone. This team has no one I would even want to see try, just not able. Actually ever see him even throw like a chest pass or alike from the right side? No zip, too challenged to learn that I am afraid. We haven't had anyone in a long long time.

It seems like a long stretch since we had any big who could start a break with a rebound and outlet pass. Once that was our bread and butter. I think it can be learned, Hilton wasn't bad at it by senior year if I recall. But I think there's a certain instinctual aspect to it as well. On the whole, I haven't been fond of our recruiting of bigs for many years (aside from Drummond). Instead of taking guys who aren't great basketball players, but who we think have a high ceiling, it might be useful to get a couple of guys who are never playing in the NBA from an athletic standpoint, but who are more skilled and have a higher basketball IQ. I mention it, because the teams we play often have those guys and they seem to feast on us. It's frustrating watching low major teams who have bigs that don't miss layups, and who box out properly.