Why is the Big East terrible for UConn and where should UConn go instead? | Page 2 | The Boneyard
.-.

Why is the Big East terrible for UConn and where should UConn go instead?

As far as the American , as an all sport conference , that shipped has sailed
As a football only with the same deal as Navy its beats making nothing except they don’t want us as a football only so the American is a moot point.
The only thing that’s bad about the Big East is we’re outsiders in a club of insiders
as a large public in a private league whose interest in performance at the highest level for some of the teams is suspect ,
The old Big Ten East had , Cuse , Pitt , West Va , Miami , VaTech , Rutgers , and later Louisville Cinncy ,and South Fla to balance the Catholics . We’re pretty much alone .
With the money the conference makes from basketball given the power conference media is primarily devoted to football should put on a close to equal footing in BB to all but the P2 . However it looks like some aren’t willing to pay the price to compete at he highest level .
Other than UConn and Creighton the performance and Bids in the NCAA recently have been a a disappoint As has league OC performance which determines bids. . I think our conference leadership is too content with the status quo and with that thinking we could become the A10 next cycle.
We’re allegedly a power basketball conference we should b be getting 5-6 teams in annually . Personally I like feel the top dogs in every conference we’re under compensated but improving the overall quality helps everyone .
Running the numbers even with football remaining independent we could substantially improve our revenue picture by moving most of our sports but primarily basketball to a P2 conference.
Before you think this is a sell out to football that association would also enhance our football program plus give us an infusion of cash .
Getting a reverse ND /ACC deal were they leveraged their football reputation to find a home for other sports . We’re leveraging out men’s and women’s BB program to enhance our football reputation.
I did have another out of the box idea
Given were worth more than any team in the league not only on the ratings strength of the men but our women’s team is comparable to most men’s team in our league in viewership numbers but we only get one equal share .
Uneven distribution would not be popular with the rest of the league even though UConn provides more content.
My suggestion to get around it would be a separate rider to the current conference deal to cover UConn football .
For $5 million a year . The media distribution stays even ( except NCAA credits) and UConn’s media deal is now a total of $15,000,000 UConn is happy and the privates have no complaint about unfairness .
Who knows you might even gain some Big East fans as football is a great sport for promotion.
 
spsct said:
OK, I'll bite since I never go to the basketball boards since I'm pretty much just a football fan.

Is this a real thing? Are there really people who are advocating moving everything to the American? That would be monumentally stupid and I fear for the future of our universe. Or is this a repository for straw man arguments that refuse to burn down?

For the record, I would not be opposed to a conference football only if the conference has a heartbeat and we got reasonable terms, but for now if the only sustainable option is BE/Independent and that's the best for us.

And before anyone starts clutching pearls I want all programs to succeed, even underwater basket weaving...
Expand ...
No. No one is suggesting that. It’s a bit that Nelson keeps playing.
 
spsct said:
OK, I'll bite since I never go to the basketball boards since I'm pretty much just a football fan.

Is this a real thing? Are there really people who are advocating moving everything to the American? That would be monumentally stupid and I fear for the future of our universe. Or is this a repository for straw man arguments that refuse to burn down?

For the record, I would not be opposed to a conference football only if the conference has a heartbeat and we got reasonable terms, but for now if the only sustainable option is BE/Independent and that's the best for us.

And before anyone starts clutching pearls I want all programs to succeed, even underwater basket weaving...
Expand ...

No. It’s strawman that he created.
 
😮‍💨This argument has been had thousands of times over. The Big East was great growing up for BBall, and it was fairly solid in football until all the defections occurred. I hated seeing the Big East being referred to as the Big Least. But it's not the 90's or 00's anymore. I am grateful that the Big East threw us a lifeline when we left the AAC. At that time Villanova was effectively carrying the conference. We join, a few years later Hurley wins back-to-back titles and we're the one carrying the conference. Geographically it's a no brainer, but we are the outlier in the conference. I say as someone who is Catholic that being the only public university in what is effectively a Catholic conference doesn't mesh with the identity of the school. The Big East is our purgatory. I think Family Guy captured it best:
Family Guy - Purgatory.gif

I consider it a stop gap, something to allow us to triage our conference realignment wounds and see what else is out there. Well, we obviously know the answer, the problem is that the most obvious panacea (ACC) won't invite us while the one that more recently toyed with us (Big 12) won't bring us in as we do not really align with their southwest identity. We have no where to go but the Big East, and as has been said countless times, that will not sustain us. We've seen the Big East NCAA tournament bids become reduced, and our financial windfall from TV contracts isn't optimized to help us grow our athletic department. That's the reality of being in the Big East. It will not sustain our aspirations of being with the other major state universities. So where to go? Well, unfortunately like Richard Gere said in An Officer and a Gentleman, we've "got nowhere else to go!", and that's the most frustrating thing of all. The American, we tried, and our men's BBall and football sucked...Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF thrived where we failed due to not taking football seriously enough. That said, going back to the American won't work. Sure Army, Temple, and Navy are near neighbors, but we aspire to be with "better" schools. Whether that comes across as arrogant or not, I don't care. We know who we want to date, and she's not returning our phone calls.
 
KryHavok said:
😮‍💨This argument has been had thousands of times over. The Big East was great growing up for BBall, and it was fairly solid in football until all the defections occurred. I hated seeing the Big East being referred to as the Big Least. But it's not the 90's or 00's anymore. I am grateful that the Big East threw us a lifeline when we left the AAC. At that time Villanova was effectively carrying the conference. We join, a few years later Hurley wins back-to-back titles and we're the one carrying the conference. Geographically it's a no brainer, but we are the outlier in the conference. I say as someone who is Catholic that being the only public university in what is effectively a Catholic conference doesn't mesh with the identity of the school. The Big East is our purgatory. I think Family Guy captured it best:
View attachment 116395
I consider it a stop gap, something to allow us to triage our conference realignment wounds and see what else is out there. Well, we obviously know the answer, the problem is that the most obvious panacea (ACC) won't invite us while the one that more recently toyed with us (Big 12) won't bring us in as we do not really align with their southwest identity. We have no where to go but the Big East, and as has been said countless times, that will not sustain us. We've seen the Big East NCAA tournament bids become reduced, and our financial windfall from TV contracts isn't optimized to help us grow our athletic department. That's the reality of being in the Big East. It will not sustain our aspirations of being with the other major state universities. So where to go? Well, unfortunately like Richard Gere said in An Officer and a Gentleman, we've "got nowhere else to go!", and that's the most frustrating thing of all. The American, we tried, and our men's BBall and football sucked...Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF thrived where we failed due to not taking football seriously enough. That said, going back to the American won't work. Sure Army, Temple, and Navy are near neighbors, but we aspire to be with "better" schools. Whether that comes across as arrogant or not, I don't care. We know who we want to date, and she's not returning our phone calls.
Expand ...
Yup. We'll wait for ACC departures. That'll be triggered by upcoming TV renewals for the Big10 and SEC in 2030 (teams get brought on board before the expiry of the current contract) and the expanded CFP (probably in 2027 or worst case 2028). So all lining up for 2028 ACC departures. One would imagine we'd get the invite to join the ACC remnants in that same timeframe.
 
.-.
ZooCougar said:
No. It’s strawman that he created.
Expand ...

It is not a strawman. It is a reaction to other posters endless litany of complaints about the conference in almost every single thread on the basketball board. If the conference affiliation is the paramount issue for these posters, what is their solution? If there is no solution, then why do they bring it up in every thread?

I just want to understand why they are making the basketball board unreadable in a year where UConn is a championship contender.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
Yup. We'll wait for ACC departures. That'll be triggered by upcoming TV renewals for the Big10 and SEC in 2030 (teams get brought on board before the expiry of the current contract) and the expanded CFP (probably in 2027 or worst case 2028). So all lining up for 2028 ACC departures. One would imagine we'd get the invite to join the ACC remnants in that same timeframe.
Expand ...

Sure. That may take 10 years, or 50, but sure. Are we going to have to listen to the same posters complain every day until then?

Also, whatever would be left of the ACC would probably not be worth joining, but we will see. Ironically, the same whiners that complain about the Big East also hate a potential solution, merging the Big East and ACC, so it is likely that these posters just want to complain.
 
KryHavok said:
I am grateful that the Big East threw us a lifeline when we left the AAC.
Expand ...
I hate that lifeline mythology that is promoted by fans of other Big East teams. If anything, we threw the big east a lifeline, making it relevant again by winning national championships in both men's and women's basketball. But the truth is it was a mutually beneficial relationship. We paid 3.5 million to get in and initially promised to pay 30 million if we left. I think our exit fee is down to 15 million now and will drop to 10 million in 2029 or thereabouts.
 
CL82 said:
I hate that lifeline mythology that is promoted by fans of other Big East teams. If anything, we threw the big east a lifeline, making it relevant again by winning national championships in both men's and women's basketball. But the truth is it was a mutually beneficial relationship. We paid 3.5 million to get in and initially promised to pay 30 million if we left. I think our exit fee is down to 15 million now and will drop to 10 million in 2029 or thereabouts.
Expand ...
What’s funny is that the other Big East fanbases claim that the NBE was “just fine” without UConn and will be if UConn leaves. Nova was on its last legs when UConn arrived they just didn’t know it yet because Jay Wright kept them afloat. Xavier, Seton Hall had a little bit of success pre-UConn. Creighton and Marquette sustained some success with UConn. But at this point if UConn leaves the NBE is no stronger than the new PAC12.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Sure. That may take 10 years, or 50, but sure. Are we going to have to listen to the same posters complain every day until then?

Also, whatever would be left of the ACC would probably not be worth joining, but we will see. Ironically, the same whiners that complain about the Big East also hate a potential solution, merging the Big East and ACC, so it is likely that these posters just want to complain.
Expand ...
Certainly not 50 years and 10 seems highly unlikely as well. What is left of the ACC would be something like one of these scenarios:

A) if it loses just 4 schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Duke, California, Stanford, SMU, Wake Forest, VA Tech, NC State, Virginia, GA Tech. So, backfill candidates would include UConn, USF, Memphis, Tulane. Not bad at all. Definitely wouldn't receive current ACC tv revenue but far better than our current situation.

B) if it loses 8 schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, California, Stanford, SMU, Wake Forest, NC State. So, backfill candidates would include UConn, USF, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, James Madison and maybe a couple more but maybe not so as to not super-dilute the tv valuation. Still better than our current situation but not as robust as scenario A, obviously.

C) if it also in addition to scenario B loses Cal and Stanford back to the rebuilt Pac, then it gets even more desperate. I don't think Cal and Stanford want the bedfellows of a rebuilt Pac but it can't be ruled out entirely.

Maybe Notre Dame hangs for a while if it's A, but likely not as they'd reluctantly go to the Big10 given the pressure they'd be under from a football perspective to keep pace on the revenue and football scheduling aspects. Either way, they don't provide a ton of value for their Olympic sports.

What seems pretty certain is UConn's future is better in a remnant ACC than a Big East/FB independent situation.

The next few years are yet another crossroad for the UConn Athletic Department.
 
.-.
UConnTrumbull said:
What’s funny is that the other Big East fanbases claim that the NBE was “just fine” without UConn and will be if UConn leaves.
Expand ...
What else are they going to say?
 
This thread isn't for me but I'll contribute.

The Big East is great for UConn because of MSG and we get to play our old regional rivals Nova, St John's, SHU, Georgetown, PC. That's it. Creighton and Marquette have turned into good rivalries too but that could happen for any other good program.

We all know we have a major issue which needs a solution and that is why the topic keeps coming up. The status quo is not possible long term. I also get the sense that much of the Big East fan base loathes UConn because we are a successful outlier.

I'd love to see another hybrid conference with a merger of the Big East and ACC which would give us the best of both worlds but that will not happen. Joining the ACC at some point seems the most likely solution. I'm curious if the American has seriously considered a football only addition for UConn because it makes sense for both sides and the American should do everything possible to be the best G5 but that hasn't happened yet so that is unlikely. And we've seen the Big XII rodeo already.

Joey Brackets has lost his mind or just desperate for clicks. Gonzaga and San Diego State. He must think the Big East will be a 1 big league at some point. The comments in his tweet are good though.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
You could have stopped there. As we'll see down the road, once we're in a P-4 conference, we can get Nova, or any other BE school on our schedule every year if we want.
Expand ...
Exactly and MSG loves UConn so we can continue to play games there as well; just not conference tournament games at MSG.
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
Certainly not 50 years and 10 seems highly unlikely as well. What is left of the ACC would be something like one of these scenarios:

A) if it loses just 4 schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Duke, California, Stanford, SMU, Wake Forest, VA Tech, NC State, Virginia, GA Tech. So, backfill candidates would include UConn, USF, Memphis, Tulane. Not bad at all. Definitely wouldn't receive current ACC tv revenue but far better than our current situation.

B) if it loses 8 schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Duke, California, Stanford, SMU, Wake Forest, NC State. So, backfill candidates would include UConn, USF, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, James Madison and maybe a couple more but maybe not so as to not super-dilute the tv valuation. Still better than our current situation but not as robust as scenario A, obviously.

C) if it also in addition to scenario B loses Cal and Stanford back to the rebuilt Pac, then it gets even more desperate. I don't think Cal and Stanford want the bedfellows of a rebuilt Pac but it can't be ruled out entirely.

Maybe Notre Dame hangs for a while if it's A, but likely not as they'd reluctantly go to the Big10 given the pressure they'd be under from a football perspective to keep pace on the revenue and football scheduling aspects. Either way, they don't provide a ton of value for their Olympic sports.

What seems pretty certain is UConn's future is better in a remnant ACC than a Big East/FB independent situation.

The next few years are yet another crossroad for the UConn Athletic Department.
Expand ...

A would be OK, but it will never happen.

B would be a horror show, and there is no way Duke, Cal and Stanford stick around for those additions. BC and Wake would tag along with the prestige academic schools.

C is the same as B in practice. Unlikely that hodge podge would be worth joining.


One of the things that people don't get is that the rules for what constitute a conference are gone at this point. The minimum number of sports and the rest no longer apply because there is no way they would survive a court challenge. Those are much more anti-competitive than the rules around the player eligibility that keep losing in court. There are 4 scenarios that I think are realistic which wouldn't be terrible for UConn:

1) Football breaks off - I think this is realistic. If it happens, we are in a good place and will have some options as conferences are formed purely for football and basketball and other sports can be aligned in different conferences.

2) Big East/ACC merger - The ACC needs more and better content and the Big East pays for itself because it already has a TV contract.

3) The Prestige Schools break off - Stanford, Cal, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Rice, BC, Wake split, maybe add a few other prestige schools (U of Chicago may want to be part of this) and form a D1 Ivy. Those schools get nothing out of being in major conferences, they could get a decent TV deal on their own, and they don't want the stigma of association with some of the wild west antics of state schools that are making a mockery of "student athlete". The alumni of those schools look down on the state schools they are currently affiliated with, and those same alumni would LOVE this league. There would also be enormous pressure by Notre Dame to join this league by its actual alumni (not internet fans). This scenario enrages several of the posters on this board. Good.

4) Schools drop out of competition. They may not officially drop out of D1, but they will downshift to something else. Many of these schools have huge financial problems, and they do not want to compete with Texas or Ohio State and their $100 million payrolls. I don't know what this will look like or which schools it will be, but I think this is likely to happen.

Those scenarios could result in a soft landing for UConn football. Any other scenario probably results in failure of UConn athletics. I think the latter is a very real possibility, so enjoy each season while we have them.
 
.-.
Football will never break off as there is no benefit to the schools that hold all of the power.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
A would be OK, but it will never happen.

B would be a horror show, and there is no way Duke, Cal and Stanford stick around for those additions. BC and Wake would tag along with the prestige academic schools.

C is the same as B in practice. Unlikely that hodge podge would be worth joining.


One of the things that people don't get is that the rules for what constitute a conference are gone at this point. The minimum number of sports and the rest no longer apply because there is no way they would survive a court challenge. Those are much more anti-competitive than the rules around the player eligibility that keep losing in court. There are 4 scenarios that I think are realistic which wouldn't be terrible for UConn:

1) Football breaks off - I think this is realistic. If it happens, we are in a good place and will have some options as conferences are formed purely for football and basketball and other sports can be aligned in different conferences.

2) Big East/ACC merger - The ACC needs more and better content and the Big East pays for itself because it already has a TV contract.

3) The Prestige Schools break off - Stanford, Cal, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Rice, BC, Wake split, maybe add a few other prestige schools (U of Chicago may want to be part of this) and form a D1 Ivy. Those schools get nothing out of being in major conferences, they could get a decent TV deal on their own, and they don't want the stigma of association with some of the wild west antics of state schools that are making a mockery of "student athlete". The alumni of those schools look down on the state schools they are currently affiliated with, and those same alumni would LOVE this league. There would also be enormous pressure by Notre Dame to join this league by its actual alumni (not internet fans). This scenario enrages several of the posters on this board. Good.

4) Schools drop out of competition. They may not officially drop out of D1, but they will downshift to something else. Many of these schools have huge financial problems, and they do not want to compete with Texas or Ohio State and their $100 million payrolls. I don't know what this will look like or which schools it will be, but I think this is likely to happen.

Those scenarios could result in a soft landing for UConn football. Any other scenario probably results in failure of UConn athletics. I think the latter is a very real possibility, so enjoy each season while we have them.
Expand ...
A would be much better than OK and it could happen as a first stage of future change because both the Big10 and the SEC may only make an addition of two at a time that's how both have expanded as opposed to four at a time.

B is not a horror show and might have to be what ACC schools have to settle on for at least awhile.

C actually is less of a hodge podge as you call it because it reconcentrates the conference away from Cali. Really the issue of losing the Cali schools is it devalues the ACC Network.

In terms of smaller conference sizes, it's a function of NCAA bylaws that really is economically driven as much as it is for competition purposes because TV networks want and need tonnage of content that fill time slots (especially for the ACC Network in this case).

In terms of your scenarios, a football breakaway could occur but seems more likely at/after 2030.

It seems like you are in general jumping to "final" conclusions as opposed to steps along the way. It doesn't seem like things are set up for such tidy one-step occurrences. The steps that occur provide opportunities for UConn to land it's football and entire AD in a better economic situation.

A non-Ivy prestige conference could happen one day but it's not that close timing wise. And, they wouldn't get much better of a tv/media deal than what the Ivy gets now (they get ESPN+ streaming with little eyeballs albeit super wealthy eyeballs that luxury goods and services companies like).

UConn's athletic department will not fail as you say above. Not gonna happen, but it certainly needs new economics brought to it. I think it'll happen in the next 2-4 years.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
It is not a strawman. It is a reaction to other posters endless litany of complaints about the conference in almost every single thread on the basketball board. If the conference affiliation is the paramount issue for these posters, what is their solution? If there is no solution, then why do they bring it up in every thread?

I just want to understand why they are making the basketball board unreadable in a year where UConn is a championship contender.
Expand ...
What’s making BB unreadable is the constant whining about how a 19-1 team just isn’t winning the right way.

If you are taking the comments about a weaker Big East to heart, that’s on you. The reality is, the league needs another 1-2 teams ranked. It has gotten better on the bottom end slightly, but UConn is the only elite team at the top.

This is not the best long term league for UConn.
 
CL82 said:
Keeping the profits from March madness?
Expand ...
They've been methodically marginalizing non P level football schools for a while. They'll continue to do so until all conferences other than the P-4 are one bid leagues (a couple could remain two bids) with some stray seasons where an extra bid goes out.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
They've been methodically marginalizing non P level football schools for a while. They'll continue to do so until all conferences other than the P-4 are one bid leagues (a couple could remain two bids) with some stray seasons where an extra bid goes out.
Expand ...
But the bulk of the profits are still being used by the NCAA to run itself plus to pay for DII and DIII sports championships
 
.-.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Online statistics

Members online
394
Guests online
14,635
Total visitors
15,029
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,706
Messages
4,490,527
Members
10,363
Latest member
Waysouthcat


Top Bottom