Why I love the women's game

[Patrick Lilly]

When friends or acquaintances find out I've been to 4 women's final fours, the look on their faces is pretty telling (dumbfounded, shocked, appalled)....which usually leads to the question: Why? My stock answer has always been 'Well it is a team sport, unlike the men's game' which at this point they change the subject because how can 5 men not be a team sport? I just found some stats that support my blasé answer. Of the top 10 men's teams only #6 Villanova and #9 Michigan State are ranked in the top 10 assists by teams (16.5 to 18.7 per game). Whereas, #1 UConn, #2 Notre Dame, #3 Stanford, #7 Baylor and #10 Maryland are ranked as top 10 assists teams (18.6 to 22.1 per game). Assists versus 1 on 1 is the difference for me, for the most part. It helps explain why I love the top teams in the women's game and become frustrated with very athletic and talented teams like North Carolina, Tennessee and Kentucky which are less disciplined. It also explains why I am always rooting for Creighton, Mercer, Michigan State, Villanova and Duke on the men's side.

 

[HuskyNan]

Women's basketball and men's basketball are two different games played with the same equipment and on the same court, much like softball and baseball. I think it's useless to compare the two. (take note, men's team fans that mock the women's game. I'm talking to you, too)

 

[UcMiami]

Patrick - nice. Also why if I watch the pro men it is usually a game involving the Spurs.
One issue with the men's college ball is most of the top teams are 'rent a player' teams where the stars are gone in a year, two at most. Hard to build the team concept over a single season. It is a big advantage for the women and for the mid-major men's programs where they do get the 4 year players and enough time to really install offensive and defensive systems.
And definitely agree about the UNCs and TNs of the women's world. That was what surprised me so much when I watched the UNC/SC game - I was expecting team work vs athleticism and UNC won easily because most of the SC offense was one on one - not what I expected from a Staley team.

 

[Phil]

When friends or acquaintances find out I've been to 4 women's final fours, the look on their faces is pretty telling (dumbfounded, shocked, appalled)....which usually leads to the question: Why? My stock answer has always been 'Well it is a team sport, unlike the men's game' which at this point they change the subject because how can 5 men not be a team sport? I just found some stats that support my blasé answer. Of the top 10 men's teams only #6 Villanova and #9 Michigan State are ranked in the top 10 assists by teams (16.5 to 18.7 per game). Whereas, #1 UConn, #2 Notre Dame, #3 Stanford, #7 Baylor and #10 Maryland are ranked as top 10 assists teams (18.6 to 22.1 per game). Assists versus 1 on 1 is the difference for me, for the most part. It helps explain why I love the top teams in the women's game and become frustrated with very athletic and talented teams like North Carolina, Tennessee and Kentucky which are less disciplined. It also explains why I am always rooting for Creighton, Mercer, Michigan State, Villanova and Duke on the men's side.

I was looking at the NCAA stats, and noticing which ones are correlated with success, and which ones not. The assists was, which seemed quite reasonable. I hadn't considered that it might be different for men. Sounds like fodder for a study.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Patrick - nice. Also why if I watch the pro men it is usually a game involving the Spurs.
One issue with the men's college ball is most of the top teams are 'rent a player' teams where the stars are gone in a year, two at most. Hard to build the team concept over a single season. It is a big advantage for the women and for the mid-major men's programs where they do get the 4 year players and enough time to really install offensive and defensive systems.
And definitely agree about the UNCs and TNs of the women's world. That was what surprised me so much when I watched the UNC/SC game - I was expecting team work vs athleticism and UNC won easily because most of the SC offense was one on one - not what I expected from a Staley team.

The main reason for that was that our point guard was hurt and the backup missed all of last season with an injury. We would definitely beat UNC if we played again.

 

[UConnCat]

The main reason for that was that our point guard was hurt and the backup missed all of last season with an injury. We would definitely beat UNC if we played again.

Who was hurt?

 

[Adesmar123]

Their pride...oh wait that's the answer to "What was hurt?"

 

[phil sampieri]

I was looking at the NCAA stats, and noticing which ones are correlated with success, and which ones not. The assists was, which seemed quite reasonable. I hadn't considered that it might be different for men. Sounds like fodder for a study.

I find the women play like I was taught, played and coached 60 years ago and I suspect, based on many white haired fans, feel the same.

 

[tomcat]

Nan, you're right, they are two different games, as I try to point of to non-comprehending friends all the time. But if you want to have any kind of conversation with them about the sport, you have to start with what they know, and break it down in the different way that we WCBB fans know how to do. I think the idea that the women's game has more assists may be a nice and simple way to explain why the game is better. For me, that's not the only reason, but it's a good start.

 

[BigBird]

HuskyNan wrote "Women's basketball and men's basketball are two different games played with the same equipment and on the same court, much like softball and baseball."

I am a softball addict, so I have to mention that: The softball, the bat, the gloves, and almost everything about the softball field differ from baseball. More than anything else, the geometry of the each game is unique to that game. But I do get the point you were trying to make. Women's hoops at the highest level is a passing game. The men's game seems to me a much more individual (look at me) game.

I did softball play-by-play on the air for several years. It is absolutely the hardest sport I ever did, with the possible exception of volleyball. Basketball was far and away the easiest to broadcast. The thing that makes softball MUCH harder than baseball is the vast difference in game pace. In SB, there's only 20 seconds between pitches, and in baseball you can take all day - or so it seems.

 

[stwainfan]

Wasn't it Coach Wooden who said the Women's game was more pure brand of Basketball.

 

[HuskyBandDad]

It is easy to say you enjoy the womens game more when you are a fan of the best program on the planet.

 

[BigBird]

In my case, the reason I became a UConn fan was the quality of play and coaching. I was a fan of women's sports long before. Having a soccer-player daughter can do that.

What amazes me is the chasm between the best 8 or ten womens' teams and the rest. The lack of fundamental skills and game situation awareness (BBIQ if you prefer) in the next 20 or so WCBB teams is absurd. The men's game is a much more even. Let me put it this way: An unranked MCBB team with a losing record can beat a top level team on a given day. Would anyone seriously think that someone below Sagarin's top 25 could beat Geno's team? Not I.

 

[ThisJustIn]

What amazes me is the chasm between the best 8 or ten womens' teams and the rest. The lack of fundamental skills and game situation awareness (BBIQ if you prefer) in the next 20 or so WCBB teams is absurd. The men's game is a much more even. Let me put it this way: An unranked MCBB team with a losing record can beat a top level team on a given day. Would anyone seriously think that someone below Sagarin's top 25 could beat Geno's team? Not I.

Have you noted how many unranked women's teams have taken down ranked teams this year? It's been a good year for that (and I think it suggests that the women may be catching up to the men's game -- even though the men had a 50 year head start) But, instead of it being an "admirable" trait (as you seem to suggest it is in the men's game) many women's fans see it as a poor reflection on the quality of the players/coaches....

Now, I'm not saying that someone's going to beat UConn this year, but you do remember what happened when #2 Uconn faced unranked St. John's -- on the Huskies home court -- two years ago, right?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

In my case, the reason I became a UConn fan was the quality of play and coaching. I was a fan of women's sports long before. Having a soccer-player daughter can do that.

What amazes me is the chasm between the best 8 or ten womens' teams and the rest. The lack of fundamental skills and game situation awareness (BBIQ if you prefer) in the next 20 or so WCBB teams is absurd. The men's game is a much more even. Let me put it this way: An unranked MCBB team with a losing record can beat a top level team on a given day. Would anyone seriously think that someone below Sagarin's top 25 could beat Geno's team? Not I.

I think you are being a bit over-simplistic. While there is a chasm, it is usually between the top 4 or so and the rest. And many seasons, including this one, there is a gulf between UConn and the rest.

The gap has little to do with fundamental skills (a problem from top to bottom in recruiting) and BBIQ which is related. In general, most coaches find it deplorable and this has been discussed many times on this board. Rather, the gap mostly results from the quality of players that the top teams have recruited and the quality of the coaching.

While I see in the men's side is that teams don't usually create the distance between themselves and an opponent that is often seen in a women's game - and can score points faster than is typical in the women's game, as well. Lesser teams that pull upsets often do so on buzzer beaters, or by a point or 2; often a not very good team loses to a better team by only a few points - in the women's game, more often there is a bigger gap.

 

[watanabe]

Not much of a gulf between UConn and ND. Check out Sagarins ratings. Spread is less than a point.

 

[Bestiarius]

In the men's game rules, the basket is much closer to the players than in the women's game. Since the men are less skilled, being closer to the basket makes it easier to score, and thus fragile egos are not damaged by excessive missed shots.

 

[Zorro]

Did you see the UConn-Butler championship game?

 

[watanabe]

In the men's game rules, the basket is much closer to the players than in the women's game. Since the men are less skilled, being closer to the basket makes it easier to score, and thus fragile egos are not damaged by excessive missed shots.

when Geno talks about the smaller ball, he says is is harder to shoot. Bounces off the rim like a ping pong ball. Tells the story about a scrimmage with the men and using the regulations ball and says the girls were killing it. All their shots were dropping.
He advocates the ladies going back to the regulation ball. Maybe then the men really will be humbled.

 

[mauconnfan]

In the men's game rules, the basket is much closer to the players than in the women's game. Since the men are less skilled, being closer to the basket makes it easier to score, and thus fragile egos are not damaged by excessive missed shots.

Men are "less skilled"? Can I have a bag of that stuff you're smoking…..that's some good ….

 

[msf22b]

I find the women play like I was taught, played and coached 60 years ago and I suspect, based on many white haired fans, feel the same.

Concur 100%, I never got beyond the schoolyard version in the Bronx and Queens but this is the way we played.
Also the pros.
Wasn't the Wanzer led Rochester Royals a terrific passing team?
And the transistion game of the McCauley, Cousy, Sharman Celtics was ridiculous.

 

[NickyNewark]

As a male boomer who grew up in the mid 50's through the 70s I followed FB first then basketball 2nd but gradually grew frustrated at the selfishness of the MBB game!! After watching RU's teams with Sue Wick's I grew to appreciate the WBB game played the way I was taught in the early to mid 60's by Al LoBalbo of NJ. BB is an artform IMO when played the way it was intended with ball sharing,passing,shooting and defense all done in symmetrical fashion. I will admit though Sue Wicks was so much better than her cast it probably wasnt the best example as she averaged probably 30 ppg more out of neccessity than selfishness ha ha. I gave up on MBB about 20 years ago except as a "casual" fan of teams rather than the sport. Whats so great about a 6'11" man dropping a ball through a "big hole"? I'd rather watch a 5'9" girl put up a rainbow 22' 3 pointer or spin dribble to the hoop leaving her defender flatfooted !! I see Stewie as becoming maybe the best ever !!! Imagine a Sue and Stew show? Wow...

 

[NickyNewark]

I think you are being a bit over-simplistic. While there is a chasm, it is usually between the top 4 or so and the rest. And many seasons, including this one, there is a gulf between UConn and the rest.

The gap has little to do with fundamental skills (a problem from top to bottom in recruiting) and BBIQ which is related. In general, most coaches find it deplorable and this has been discussed many times on this board. Rather, the gap mostly results from the quality of players that the top teams have recruited and the quality of the coaching.

While I see in the men's side is that teams don't usually create the distance between themselves and an opponent that is often seen in a women's game - and can score points faster than is typical in the women's game, as well. Lesser teams that pull upsets often do so on buzzer beaters, or by a point or 2; often a not very good team loses to a better team by only a few points - in the women's game, more often there is a bigger gap.

Top 4? Is L'ville that much better than CVS's RU? I think not and RU isn't even ranked. One of the Arizona teams is highly ranked and the other just won their 1st Pac12 game this weekend....guess who won by 20?Yup the unranked also ran with only 7 players on there roster healthy enough to play!! Even Stanford got walloped this weekend! Maybe UConn and ND then everybody's in the next 50 or so teams can be had though their are probably 3 tiers...the 2 I mentioned then 3-50 and everyone else. I mean are their 25 teams better with more talent(and very young) than RU? I doubt it.

 

[NickyNewark]

I find the women play like I was taught, played and coached 60 years ago and I suspect, based on many white haired fans, feel the same.

Although I'm 62 I have a full thick mane of coppery hair but I get you're gist, ha ha.

 

[NickyNewark]

Men are "less skilled"? Can I have a bag of that stuff you're smoking…..that's some good ….

We may not be less skilled but we sure use them less!! Selfishness is ruining the men's game.