Why do we act like UConn is the only top team that plays weak teams? | The Boneyard

Why do we act like UConn is the only top team that plays weak teams?

Status
Not open for further replies.

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,009
Reaction Score
4,489
Let's take a look at the scores of the top teams so far this year. 20+ difference.

Baylor - 82-28, 81-31, 83-50, 109-59, 91-39.
UConn - 77-37, 112-53, 74-28, 90-34, 78-38, 92-31
ND - 99-34, 98-43, 80-58
A&M - 83-58, 83-54, 93-47
Stanford - 97-48, 93-44
Maryland - 84-46, 82-46, 94-71, 84-52, 114-83
Duke - 80-54, 97-31, 73-50
Tenn - 89-57, 82-43
Miami - 83-37, 107-26, 92-72, 92-43
Lousiville - 77-53, 105-62

That's the top ten.

Yes, UConn has the most blowouts. But in my opinion, that is a reflection on two things. The tourney in Storrs that Geno had no say in who they played and the fact that UConn is just that good.
 

speedoo

Big Apple Big Dog
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
2,995
Reaction Score
674
Thanks DD. But to answer your question, I think you know as well as I do that the constant whining from a certain group of fans on another board is what drives this.
 

EricLA

Cronus
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
14,436
Reaction Score
36,022
the thing i go back to is something i said the other day in another post. since 1995, UCONN has only been out of the top 10 SOS or RPI a few times, and in the last 15 years or so, i don't think we've been outside the top 10 in either. we've had tons of discussions about SOS and that it's sort of a meaningless victory to have the #1 SOS in the country if it doesn't turn into being the #1 team mid April.

to answer speedoo, i don't think it's just the whine-y other fans. it's also some UCONN fans who talk about the weak opponents as reasons they don't attend the games. i don't think that's the only reason, but i certainly respect someone's right not to attend a game.

my feeling is that Geno has said he will play anyone, any time. someone had some great points about UCONN's feelings about home and homes since the WCBB team needs to make more $ as does the MCBB team due to the relative newness of our football program and the fact that it makes relatively less compared to other more established football programs.
 

alexrgct

RIP, Alex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
10,096
Reaction Score
7,844
1. The commentary from other fans is silly. I mean yes, we don't have Virginia or Ball State on the schedule or anything, but we still have some pretty good opponents lined up for the 2011-12 women's basketball season.

2. The commentary on this board about the scheduling is, in my estimation, entirely inwardly-focused. There is an issue with declining attendance, of which quality of opponent is one sub-issue out of many being disucssed. It really doesn't matter who Baylor or ND or anyone schedules; it's about what we can (and can't) do to help bring fans back to Gampel and XL. I'm not convinced there a ton UConn can do from a quality of opponent standpoint myself...though perhaps bringing in some programs with brand equity, even if their teams aren't top 10 year-over-year, could help.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,009
Reaction Score
4,489
1. The commentary from other fans is silly. I mean yes, we don't have Virginia or Ball State on the schedule or anything, but we still have some pretty good opponents lined up for the 2011-12 women's basketball season.

2. The commentary on this board about the scheduling is, in my estimation, entirely inwardly-focused. There is an issue with declining attendance, of which quality of opponent is one sub-issue out of many being disucssed. It really doesn't matter who Baylor or ND or anyone schedules; it's about what we can (and can't) do to help bring fans back to Gampel and XL. I'm not convinced there a ton UConn can do from a quality of opponent standpoint myself...though perhaps bringing in some programs with brand equity, even if their teams aren't top 10 year-over-year, could help.
T0o me, it's the state of WCBB. Top heavy with teams that will hammer everyone but each other.
 

JoePgh

Cranky pants and wise acre
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
3,301
Reaction Score
9,164
I'm getting the feeling that many on this board are in denial about a very real problem. Obviously (as the above scores indicate) other Top 10 teams do not have nearly as many blowoutable teams on their schedules as UConn does. So the "topheavy with teams that will hammer everyone but each other" doesn't seem to apply to most of the other Top 10 schools, who are able to get better-quality opponents than UConn is (for at least half of UConn's out-of-conference schedule -- the other half of the UConn schedule is very good, as we know).

Among all the whining that the orange folks do, this is the one issue about which (IMHO) they have a very legitimate point: Tennessee's entire out-of-conference schedule does not include a single team of the Holy Cross / Towson / Fairleigh Dickinson stripe. Predominantly it consists of large, well-known schools from BCS conferences with serious WCBB programs. Why can they schedule these teams while UConn cannot?

I also do not think that poorer-than-necessary attendance is the only undesirable consequence of scheduling so many inferior teams. There is also the issue of preparation for the end of the season, particularly for the freshman who have not been through that. You don't develop your game as well as you might if you constantly play the likes of Towson, at least in November and December.
 

UConnCat

Wise Woman
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
12,691
Reaction Score
36,455
Among all the whining that the orange folks do, this is the one issue about which (IMHO) they have a very legitimate point: Tennessee's entire out-of-conference schedule does not include a single team of the Holy Cross / Towson / Fairleigh Dickinson stripe. Predominantly it consists of large, well-known schools from BCS conferences with serious WCBB programs. Why can they schedule these teams while UConn cannot?

This question has been answered in the other thread on scheduling non-conference teams. See my post and Scotter's post
 

speedoo

Big Apple Big Dog
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
2,995
Reaction Score
674
I'm getting the feeling that many on this board are in denial about a very real problem. Obviously (as the above scores indicate) other Top 10 teams do not have nearly as many blowoutable teams on their schedules as UConn does. So the "topheavy with teams that will hammer everyone but each other" doesn't seem to apply to most of the other Top 10 schools, who are able to get better-quality opponents than UConn is (for at least half of UConn's out-of-conference schedule -- the other half of the UConn schedule is very good, as we know).

Among all the whining that the orange folks do, this is the one issue about which (IMHO) they have a very legitimate point: Tennessee's entire out-of-conference schedule does not include a single team of the Holy Cross / Towson / Fairleigh Dickinson stripe. Predominantly it consists of large, well-known schools from BCS conferences with serious WCBB programs. Why can they schedule these teams while UConn cannot?

I also do not think that poorer-than-necessary attendance is the only undesirable consequence of scheduling so many inferior teams. There is also the issue of preparation for the end of the season, particularly for the freshman who have not been through that. You don't develop your game as well as you might if you constantly play the likes of Towson, at least in November and December.

Maybe you should look at the LV schedule. This year it includes Pepperdine, Middle Tennessee, ODU and Chattonooga (how do you know none of these three are no better than UConn's cupcakes?). Plus some "well known" schools like Virginia and UCLA that are not nearly as tough as most teams in the BE conference. Best thing about their schedule is that they play a lot of tough BE teams. Unfortunately the SEC conference has been so weak lately that if UConn reciprocated, it would not be much better than playing the cupcakes already on our schedule.

By the end of the season, there won't be much difference in the overall difficulty of the UConn and LV schedules. As usual.
 

speedoo

Big Apple Big Dog
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
2,995
Reaction Score
674
1. The commentary from other fans is silly. I mean yes, we don't have Virginia or Ball State on the schedule or anything, but we still have some pretty good opponents lined up for the 2011-12 women's basketball season.

2. The commentary on this board about the scheduling is, in my estimation, entirely inwardly-focused. There is an issue with declining attendance, of which quality of opponent is one sub-issue out of many being disucssed. It really doesn't matter who Baylor or ND or anyone schedules; it's about what we can (and can't) do to help bring fans back to Gampel and XL. I'm not convinced there a ton UConn can do from a quality of opponent standpoint myself...though perhaps bringing in some programs with brand equity, even if their teams aren't top 10 year-over-year, could help.

Oh if only this were true, but if you check lower in this thread, it clearly is not.
 

alexrgct

RIP, Alex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
10,096
Reaction Score
7,844
I'm getting the feeling that many on this board are in denial about a very real problem. Obviously (as the above scores indicate) other Top 10 teams do not have nearly as many blowoutable teams on their schedules as UConn does. So the "topheavy with teams that will hammer everyone but each other" doesn't seem to apply to most of the other Top 10 schools, who are able to get better-quality opponents than UConn is (for at least half of UConn's out-of-conference schedule -- the other half of the UConn schedule is very good, as we know).

Among all the whining that the orange folks do, this is the one issue about which (IMHO) they have a very legitimate point: Tennessee's entire out-of-conference schedule does not include a single team of the Holy Cross / Towson / Fairleigh Dickinson stripe. Predominantly it consists of large, well-known schools from BCS conferences with serious WCBB programs. Why can they schedule these teams while UConn cannot?

I also do not think that poorer-than-necessary attendance is the only undesirable consequence of scheduling so many inferior teams. There is also the issue of preparation for the end of the season, particularly for the freshman who have not been through that. You don't develop your game as well as you might if you constantly play the likes of Towson, at least in November and December.

In fairness:

a) The LVs are playing or have played Pepperdine, Chattanooga, Middle Tennessee State, and ODU (tradition, but not good now).
b) They also play in a soft conference. Some teams have brand equity, but they aren't good.
c) Starting in January, UConn doesn't have a single soft OOC opponent and has a pretty brutal schedule.
d) You could make the argument that getting to play heavy minutes early, even against bad teams, is terrific for the freshmen. Cierre Burdick has not had an opportunity to play much at all outside of the LV's MTSU game. I don't think she's being better developed as a result.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,009
Reaction Score
4,489
I'm getting the feeling that many on this board are in denial about a very real problem.

And I'm getting the feeling that some on this board are overstating an issue.

Obviously (as the above scores indicate) other Top 10 teams do not have nearly as many blowoutable teams on their schedules as UConn does.

Excluding the weekend tourney, which UConn had ZERO say in who they played, it's the same with every top ten team. Everyone else had 2-3 except for Maryland and Baylor, who had 5 and Miami, who had 4.

So the "topheavy with teams that will hammer everyone but each other" doesn't seem to apply to most of the other Top 10 schools, who are able to get better-quality opponents than UConn is (for at least half of UConn's out-of-conference schedule -- the other half of the UConn schedule is very good, as we know).

Bull. I didn't list the opponent but if you beat a team by 30, whether or not a team is ranked 50, 100, 150 or 200. Are you telling me that there is a difference in UConn playing Holy Cross, Pacific and Townson and Baylor playing Howard, Chattonooga, Yale or Texas Southern? Or Miami playing Texas Pan-American, Prarie View, Alaska Anchorage or Longwood?

Among all the whining that the orange folks do, this is the one issue about which (IMHO) they have a very legitimate point: Tennessee's entire out-of-conference schedule does not include a single team of the Holy Cross / Towson / Fairleigh Dickinson stripe. Predominantly it consists of large, well-known schools from BCS conferences with serious WCBB programs. Why can they schedule these teams while UConn cannot?

Even your example of how UConn should schedule, Tennessee (who I agree does the best job of avoiding really bad teams) has played Pepperdine and MTSU with 30+ point blowouts. And they will do the same against upcoming ODU and Chattonooga. That's 4 guarenteed blowouts. Large, well known schools? Maybe ODU, with their great history. But the last 3 years, the scores have been 83-51, 102-62, 74-44. Do you really think these games are any better?
I also do not think that poorer-than-necessary attendance is the only undesirable consequence of scheduling so many inferior teams. There is also the issue of preparation for the end of the season, particularly for the freshman who have not been through that. You don't develop your game as well as you might if you constantly play the likes of Towson, at least in November and December.

Even your example of how UConn should schedule, Tennessee (who I agree does the best job of avoiding really bad teams) has played Pepperdine and MTSU with 30+ point blowouts. And they will do the same against upcoming ODU and Chattonooga. That's 4 guarenteed blowouts.

I also do not think that poorer-than-necessary attendance is the only undesirable consequence of scheduling so many inferior teams. There is also the issue of preparation for the end of the season, particularly for the freshman who have not been through that. You don't develop your game as well as you might if you constantly play the likes of Towson, at least in November and December.

I'm pretty sure that playing 12 top 25 teams and 6 top 10 teams will make up for playing all those crappy teams. I think you should take your arguement to all the other top 10 teams that don't play as tough a top tier schedule as UConn.

And the main reason is that UConn is just that good. Look at the close games that the other schools have against teams (under 20 points) outside the top 50 and tell me that UConn wouldn't beat them by 30+.
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
90
Reaction Score
105
There's only one set of fans who act that way, and it's because they have nothing else they can say. They've harped on and on about SOS in the past, now that UConn's practically playing the whole AP top 15 they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with this stupid argument.

The argument is that UConn is scheduling weak teams to 'feast on' while avoiding 'challenges' on a nightly basis. Why? Because UConn's afraid their 40+ margin of victory will dip to 35 against the top 50-150?

Anyone who buys this argument is drinking way too much orange kool-aid. This is not a legitimate point.

Let the LV fans have this one. Otherwise they won't have a 'but' at the end of the sentence, "UConn's pretty good, but..."
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
22,172
Reaction Score
27,952
Why do we act like UConn is the only top team that plays weak teams?

Some of us don't. Some of us realize that most teams have soft parts of their schedule.......except of course for the cupcakes themselves.....relatively.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,009
Reaction Score
4,489
Some of us don't. Some of us realize that most teams have soft parts of their schedule.......except of course for the cupcakes themselves.....relatively.
Sorry, I should have said "some". My bad.
 

HuskyNan

You Know Who
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
18,511
Reaction Score
54,092
Has a single season gone by since 1996 that, ahem, someone hasn't made snide remarks about UConn's schedule? Who cares what the obsessed, the hateful, or plain old crazy people think? The schedule hasn't kept UConn from winning 7 National Championships.

I don't care who's on the schedule, bring 'em on. I'm either at the game embarrasing my friends by being too rowdy or parked on the couch watching the Huskies take on all comers. Phooey to the naysayers.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,665
Reaction Score
1,503
Has a single season gone by since 1996 that, ahem, someone hasn't made snide remarks about UConn's schedule? Who cares what the obsessed, the hateful, or plain old crazy people think? The schedule hasn't kept UConn from winning 7 National Championships.

I don't care who's on the schedule, bring 'em on. I'm either at the game embarrasing my friends by being too rowdy or parked on the couch watching the Huskies take on all comers. Phooey to the naysayers.

Way to go Nan, couldn't agree with you more!
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
2,826
Reaction Score
3,846
Let's take a look at the scores of the top teams so far this year. 20+ difference.

Baylor - 82-28, 81-31, 83-50, 109-59, 91-39.
UConn - 77-37, 112-53, 74-28, 90-34, 78-38, 92-31
ND - 99-34, 98-43, 80-58
A&M - 83-58, 83-54, 93-47
Stanford - 97-48, 93-44
Maryland - 84-46, 82-46, 94-71, 84-52, 114-83
Duke - 80-54, 97-31, 73-50
Tenn - 89-57, 82-43
Miami - 83-37, 107-26, 92-72, 92-43
Lousiville - 77-53, 105-62

That's the top ten.

Yes, UConn has the most blowouts. But in my opinion, that is a reflection on two things. The tourney in Storrs that Geno had no say in who they played and the fact that UConn is just that good.
I agree with the idea that some are in denial. This is not about the fact that other teams schedule cupcakes, and it certainly is not about whining among fans wearing orange. It is also not about strength of schedule, which is an interesting statistical trophy and of little other value. Instead, it is about:
1. Fans who have advanced the novel concept that if UConn would schedule somewhat better teams, they would get somewhat better attendance; and
2. Fans who have advanced the novel concept that the team itself derives little or no benefit participating in a tournament in which it plays down to the level of Fairleigh Freaking Dickinson, for crying out loud, and would do better scheduling home-and-home series with more serious teams.
3. People who have proudly watched UConn women's basketball become a national franchise and brand over the years and are disturbed at the fact that declining attendance threatens the prestige of that brand. We are especially disturbed because of what we see as factors that the university itself has allowed to happen that anyone who cared could have foreseen would cause problems. Those factors include:
a. Too many cupcakes;
b. Greed, i.e., the Storrs parking garage charges;
c. Greed, i.e., ticket prices in a declining economy;
d. Failure until this year to try to do something about empty lower bowl seats. Every empty seat in the lower bowl is, IMHO, an insult to the upper-bowl fan who pays his or her hard-earned money for whatever he or she can get. For me, the jury's out on this new AD, but his idea of recycling unused lower-bowl tickets is a good one.
e. The utter failure of UConn marketing to recognize the audience's aging demographic and to effectively attract younger audiences to a top-notch product.
f. Failure of UConn Marketing and Athletics to develop a schedule that recognizes that women's basketball is, yes, sport, bu tit is also entertainment, and the more entertaining a produce you put on the floor, the more people will respond to it.
 

vtcwbuff

Civil War Buff
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
4,167
Reaction Score
4,842
It all boils down to two things. First, D1 WCBB is comprised of a few haves and a crapload of have nots (and never will) that shouldn't be in the same division.
Second, there aren't enough good teams to go around so that a team isn't forced to schedule Towson, Dayton, HC et al.

There isn't enough talent available to change that. A prime example is Delaware. Anybody think that when EDD leaves that Delaware will remain a compettitiv team?

"People who have proudly watched UConn women's basketball become a national franchise and brand over the years and are disturbed at the fact that declining attendance threatens the prestige of that brand. We are especially disturbed because of what we see as factors that the university itself has allowed to happen that anyone who cared could have foreseen would cause problems. "

+10
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,686
Reaction Score
2,450
Uconn plays 30 games. 14 OOC. In those 14 play 1,4,5,7,14,18. That is a pretty top heavy set of opponents. So 8 games against just ok or worse teams. If not in top 25 Uconn will beat you by 25 virtually every time. Current #35 is Tulane, #36 is Cal, then Northwestern, Arkansas and Iowa State. Tulane lost to Purdue by 13, Uconn would beat them by 25 going away.
Uconn playing anyone not in the top 25, and probably top 15 is unlikely to be much of a game.
Reason we don't play OOC #'s 3,10,11,20,22 is they are in our league.
Reason don't play # 8 is the coach refused to renew the contract and on several occasions has stated that will not play Uconn because Uconn cheats in recruiting. So can only play 8 of top 10 (can't play ourselves or team whose coach calls Uconn cheats) and we play 6 of them (and one twice) and yet harp on 8 games that are easy.
Complaining about playing a 30 game schedule with 7 games against top 10 and 5 more against the top 22 and having #8's coach refuse to play Uconn is really stretching for complaints. And this is all before the BE and NCAA tournaments.
You do know that most WCBB teams lose money and lots of it. Uconn isn't in the black any more. It's a luxury to play as many good teams and yet all this bitching.
Nothing novel about comments here, Uconn has same marketing problems in the only sport that counts, football.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,630
Reaction Score
2,006
I agree with the idea that some are in denial. This is not about the fact that other teams schedule cupcakes, and it certainly is not about whining among fans wearing orange. It is also not about strength of schedule, which is an interesting statistical trophy and of little other value. Instead, it is about:
1. Fans who have advanced the novel concept that if UConn would schedule somewhat better teams, they would get somewhat better attendance; and
2. Fans who have advanced the novel concept that the team itself derives little or no benefit participating in a tournament in which it plays down to the level of Fairleigh Freaking Dickinson, for crying out loud, and would do better scheduling home-and-home series with more serious teams.
3. People who have proudly watched UConn women's basketball become a national franchise and brand over the years and are disturbed at the fact that declining attendance threatens the prestige of that brand. We are especially disturbed because of what we see as factors that the university itself has allowed to happen that anyone who cared could have foreseen would cause problems. Those factors include:
a. Too many cupcakes;
b. Greed, i.e., the Storrs parking garage charges;
c. Greed, i.e., ticket prices in a declining economy;
d. Failure until this year to try to do something about empty lower bowl seats. Every empty seat in the lower bowl is, IMHO, an insult to the upper-bowl fan who pays his or her hard-earned money for whatever he or she can get. For me, the jury's out on this new AD, but his idea of recycling unused lower-bowl tickets is a good one.
e. The utter failure of UConn marketing to recognize the audience's aging demographic and to effectively attract younger audiences to a top-notch product.
f. Failure of UConn Marketing and Athletics to develop a schedule that recognizes that women's basketball is, yes, sport, bu tit is also entertainment, and the more entertaining a produce you put on the floor, the more people will respond to it.

a very cogent presentation, indeed. as long as people (though not so many as there once was) continue to waste money as they did watching games like the towson game , you're going to have complaints about the schedule. oh, how i wish i had the $75-$80 back that i spent to see uconn play howard last year. what was i thinking?
 

blaqtech

Longtime Louisville Lover
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
238
Reaction Score
173
Are we back on this again...but with a twist?

The opponents we don't have on the schedule are irrelevant.
If a team is in the 90% club, UCONN can beat you by 20-30 points plus. PERIOD.
It doesn't matter if you are considered a quality team or not...on our schedule or not.
REPEAT ! 90 % status equals 20 + point loss.
There are teams in the top 10 right now I believe UCONN would beat by 20 points....
now I say that to say there is no one in the top 10 I believe can beat UCONN by 20 or more points and that includes Baylor.
Who UCONN plays is irrelevant because the score pretty much looks the same 90% of the time.
That includes USC, UCLA, LSU, Cal, Arizona State, ODU, Michigan, Nebraska, Iowa, Green Bay, etc....

The other schools can't say that because they struggle to wins in games against teams we blowout.
Playing a next level team for them is a challenge. Georgia, Miss State, Ole Miss, Virginia.....

Here's the challenge......pick a school not on UCONN's schedule that you believe the Huskies could not beat by more than 20 points if they played? Or beat UCONN by 20?
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
886
Reaction Score
497
the thing i go back to is something i said the other day in another post. since 1995, UCONN has only been out of the top 10 SOS or RPI a few times, and in the last 15 years or so, i don't think we've been outside the top 10 in either. we've had tons of discussions about SOS and that it's sort of a meaningless victory to have the #1 SOS in the country if it doesn't turn into being the #1 team mid April.

to answer speedoo, i don't think it's just the whine-y other fans. it's also some UCONN fans who talk about the weak opponents as reasons they don't attend the games. i don't think that's the only reason, but i certainly respect someone's right not to attend a game.

my feeling is that Geno has said he will play anyone, any time. someone had some great points about UCONN's feelings about home and homes since the WCBB team needs to make more $ as does the MCBB team due to the relative newness of our football program and the fact that it makes relatively less compared to other more established football programs.
I do not think we have to apologize to anyone,re our overall schedule. Look at our schedule for the entire regular season. Then the Big East Tournament,prior to March Madness. This can be said re the last 20 years. OOC schedule for the remainder of the regular season is brutal. In conference who has a tougher one?
 

DaddyChoc

Choc Full of UConn
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
12,400
Reaction Score
9,273
Who UCONN plays is irrelevant because the score pretty much looks the same 90% of the time.
That includes USC, UCLA, LSU, Cal, Arizona State, ODU, Michigan, Nebraska, Iowa, Green Bay, etc....

for me its all about location & history... UConn playing UCLA USC Michigan just looks better than playing Holy Cross, UHart, Buffalo etc
 

KnightBridgeAZ

Grand Canyon Knight
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,929
Reaction Score
3,978
You folks keep going around and around on it. UConn's out of conference schedule over-all is one of the most competitive out there. Never mind the in-conference part.

One thing that may confuse folks - you play more really, really good teams than almost anybody. You play a perfectly normal number of cupcakes. What you don't play much is any "middle of the road" decent teams, which, as other posters noted, probably wouldn't matter anyhow, as the game result is likely to look like you were playing a cupcake.

Anyone with issues with the way the UConn program schedules simply needs to look at the schedules for the last 5 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
592
Guests online
1,199
Total visitors
1,791

Forum statistics

Threads
171,962
Messages
4,266,121
Members
9,207
Latest member
Swoop


Top Bottom