Why can't we find and develop good big men?

[MexicoHusky]

This seems a little overblown to me. When we had offensively-talented bigs under JC, they got their touches. Okafor, Charlie V, even Adrien and Thabeet got plenty of chances in the post. Our recent bigs need to be able to catch the ball before they can be concerned with scoring.

Yeah, you could be right. I might be exagerating a bit. There are some offensive bright spots in our past.

 

[jibsey]

Give me a Jake Voskhul and I would be very happy.
Don't need a prolific scorer that needs the ball.

Right, hence the problem. We have all seen non highly recruited sturdy slow footed bigs with good hands and basic footwork that we covet because we know that if they box out, make a layup, pass out of a double team, execute a basic pick and roll and hold onto the ball our guards are so good that our offense can excel. Aside from some flashes now and then we haven't had that. I think that Enoch is going to be one of those guys and if Cobb can be another we can fake the rest.

 

[mauconnfan]

This seems a little overblown to me. When we had offensively-talented bigs under JC, they got their touches. Okafor, Charlie V, even Adrien and Thabeet got plenty of chances in the post. Our recent bigs need to be able to catch the ball before they can be concerned with scoring.

Yep, they were able to run some offense even through Hasheem by his junior year, much better with the ball and scoring it too.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I'm not sure if KO has the correct approach when recruiting centers. I think some others have pointed out that KO is going after very high profile recruits and missing out on very get-able guys. I'm not completely in that camp, but this may be the case with centers. We spent almost a year going after that dude that ended up at Maryland for one year. We would of probably wasted his low post skill even if we got him. We should be targeting lesser tier guys, but hopefully physically capable guys. I have a hard time believing we still can't land the Jake Voskuhl's of the world. That type of player should be our focus when it comes to centers.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Clyde Vaughn. The quality of our bigs has gone down hill since he left. We had Andre Frikken Drummond one of the most talented big men to come along and he did nothing here. Thats on coaching.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

To me the answer is simple and it's been the same answer for 30 years. At least, the recruiting portion of the question is.

We dont pass to or run plays for the bigs. They rebound, block shots, play defense, etc... and I'm fine with that.

If i were recruiting against us i would say, dont go to UCONN, they never pass to the bigs. And they wouldn't be too far off.

This isn't remotely accurate. Go back and watch those Calhoun teams with Boone, Armstrong, Okafor, Villanueva. I think you'd be shocked at how involved in the offense the bigs were. I've watched more than a handful of the '06 team's games this season and the ball movement among the bigs was pretty extraordinary.

 

[August_West]

Boone was a pretty heady player court awareness wise. Didnt have the raw talent of a CV but he was a very crafty, savvy player.

 

[Lefty2one]

Clyde Vaughn. The quality of our bigs has gone down hill since he left. We had Andre Frikken Drummond one of the most talented big men to come along and he did nothing here. Thats on coaching.

Drummond was much more raw than I think most of us anticipated. Our staff had what, 8 months on campus with him? Not enough time to make an impact. He wasn't going to be much more than a dunker, rebounder and shotblocker for us. Especially with so many teams packing in a 2-3 zone against him.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

we have certainly taken some gambles that have been misses, Lubin. Hoping Enoch improves somewhat. If these bigs arent improving at all, i think its time to cut the coach supposedly trying to develop them.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not sure if KO has the correct approach when recruiting centers. I think some others have pointed out that KO is going after very high profile recruits and missing out on very get-able guys. I'm not completely in that camp, but this may be the case with centers. We spent almost a year going after that dude that ended up at Maryland for one year. We would of probably wasted his low post skill even if we got him. We should be targeting lesser tier guys, but hopefully physically capable guys. I have a hard time believing we still can't land the Jake Voskuhl's of the world. That type of player should be our focus when it comes to centers.

I think there is some merit to this. I don't want him to stop trying to get big time, future NBA big men. But I do think there is a role on any college team for a savvy, skilled but not super athletic big man who can rebound, defend the rim, make layups or dunk and pass out of a double team. Teams of much lower stature than ours seem to be able to get these guys. To sum it up, UConn tends to recruit athletes over basketball players (it prefers both of course, but those are the top recruits). At some positions, that has worked well. At center and PF I think you need to go the other way and emphasize skill over athletic upside.

 

[TheChamps990411]

He wasn't going to be much more than a dunker, rebounder and shotblocker for us. Especially with so many teams packing in a 2-3 zone against him.

With his size and athleticism that shouldve been more than enough on the college level to put up a double double a game EASY!

 

[intlzncster]

Agreed, we went to Brimah a ton. It definitely was a little unusual considering how bad Brimah is offensively, I'm sure KO was hoping it would create some space for Adams and others. Unfortunately, Brimah is just so suspect with the ball.

I suppose we could edit together a video showcasing all the opportunities bigs get in our offense. We could show recruits the 10-15 times per game where we passed the ball to Brimah in the post. Of course we would have to tell recruits to use their imagination and pretend the dude catching the ball actually has a clue how to play basketball. I think it's a winning strategy with new recruits ;-)

Hahah. That's a funny pitch. "Look, this is why we need you. You can actually play basketball and our offense would look passable if you came here".

 

[intlzncster]

Right, hence the problem. We have all seen non highly recruited sturdy slow footed bigs with good hands and basic footwork that we covet because we know that if they box out, make a layup, pass out of a double team, execute a basic pick and roll and hold onto the ball our guards are so good that our offense can excel. Aside from some flashes now and then we haven't had that. I think that Enoch is going to be one of those guys and if Cobb can be another we can fake the rest.

Remember though, Jake didn't become Jake til junior year. He was suspect at best his first few years. I remember yelling at the TV a fair bit.

 

[intlzncster]

I think there is some merit to this. I don't want him to stop trying to get big time, future NBA big men. But I do think there is a role on any college team for a savvy, skilled but not super athletic big man who can rebound, defend the rim, make layups or dunk and pass out of a double team. Teams of much lower stature than ours seem to be able to get these guys. To sum it up, UConn tends to recruit athletes over basketball players (it prefers both of course, but those are the top recruits). At some positions, that has worked well. At center and PF I think you need to go the other way and emphasize skill over athletic upside.

The corollary is that they seemed to have 'sold out' to the higher end prospects, leaving emphasis on second tier guys lacking. So they end up with 3rd and 4th tier crap shoots. I'd like them to shoot for the stars, yes, but also go hard after those 2nd tier guys. Pair them with stud guards, and they have something.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Boone was a pretty heady player court awareness wise. Didnt have the raw talent of a CV but he was a very crafty, savvy player.

When that 2006 team was locked in they were terrifying.

 

[Lefty2one]

With his size and athleticism that shouldve been more than enough on the college level to put up a double double a game EASY!

He averaged 10 & 8, not exactly far off from a double-double. Do you really think sub-par coaching is the reason he didn't grab two more boards per game?

That UConn team was pretty loaded with individual talent, there was no need for him to get a ton of post touches, his game wasn't that refined outside of dunking the ball. He had some really awkward and ugly post moves that year. On the other end of the floor, he was competing with Oriakhi and Roscoe on the glass not to mention Lamb of all people was our second leading rebounder.

 

[superjohn]

When that 2006 team was locked in they were terrifying.

That was a team of grown men but they weren't always locked in, knew they could go on a 14-0 run whenever they wanted. That team was one guard/ballhandler away from being the best college basketball team of the last 20 years.

 

[Lefty2one]

That was a team of grown men but they weren't always locked in, knew they could go on a 14-0 run whenever they wanted. That team was one guard/ballhandler away from being the best college basketball team of the last 20 years.

If AJ never had those health or law issues that might have been our best team ever. An in-shape, sophomore AJ backing up Williams was exactly what that '06 team needed. Could you imagine of Charlie stuck around for one more year too?

 

[superjohn]

If AJ never had those health or law issues that might have been our best team ever. An in-shape, sophomore AJ backing up Williams was exactly what that '06 team needed.

Yup and we would have another national title.

 

[intlzncster]

If AJ never had those health or law issues that might have been our best team ever. An in-shape, sophomore AJ backing up Williams was exactly what that '06 team needed. Could you imagine of Charlie stuck around for one more year too?

Would have been tough to beat 04 and 99. No one on 06 could hang with Ben or Mek.

 

[Lefty2one]

Would have been tough to beat 04 and 99. No one on 06 could hang with Ben or Mek.

Talent level, I agree with 2004 being the best ever. I think we had more talent on paper in 2006 than 1999.

2006 was a little healthier and more consistent than 2004, though when 2004 was clicking they were also terrifying as hell. That Bama Elite 8 game was something else.

 

[intlzncster]

Talent level, I agree with 2004 being the best ever. I think we had more talent on paper in 2006 than 1999.

2006 was a little healthier and more consistent than 2004, though when 2004 was clicking they were also terrifying as hell. That Bama Elite 8 game was something else.

Leaving aside the 99 Final, my favorite UCONN game of all time was 2004 FF against Duke. That one felt soooooooooo good.

 

[TheChamps990411]

He averaged 10 & 8, not exactly far off from a double-double. Do you really think sub-par coaching is the reason he didn't grab two more boards per game?

That UConn team was pretty loaded with individual talent, there was no need for him to get a ton of post touches, his game wasn't that refined outside of dunking the ball. He had some really awkward and ugly post moves that year. On the other end of the floor, he was competing with Oriakhi and Roscoe on the glass not to mention Lamb of all people was our second leading rebounder.

Thanks for proving my point. 10-8 and he wasnt first,second,third,fourth or fifth option. And yes coaching didnt help him as much as it shouldve. Not just with his post game and defense but i also think Coach Calhoun really shouldve made him more of a focal point of that team.

 

[Chief00]

Has to be this. It just can't be our bigs weren't up to par in their learning and abilities.

Need better players and coaches immediately get better at what they do. Pretty simple, get smarter and better players and suddenly you have the best bigs coach in the business.

Think you are underestimating the role coaching and S&C can play or why pay them the big checks?

 

[mauconnfan]

Think you are underestimating the role coaching and S&C can play or why pay them the big checks?

No I'm not but I do know you ARE overestimating the talent they were coaching.

Not once have I said they are really good coaches and they've proven themselves. I am sure they know how to coach, maybe it's not good enough. But anyone evaluating them on the bigs they had these past 4 years are just downright crazy because none had the instincts higher than a 13-14 year old, and at that age I knew more than a couple of them. If you want to evaluate the recruiting I'm with you. If you want to get some smart players in here who don't get better over a couple years then changes need to be made. But to throw the crap at the staff for the players without any basketball instincts they were coaching not fair. As I've stated many times not even magicians can make some of these guys better, they're clueless at times. If you can't understand the game on your own without coaching after 4 years you have issues, never mind knowing they were being coached.

Recruit better and smarter players, everyone wins.

 

[mauconnfan]

Thanks for proving my point. 10-8 and he wasnt first,second,third,fourth or fifth option. And yes coaching didnt help him as much as it shouldve. Not just with his post game and defense but i also think Coach Calhoun really shouldve made him more of a focal point of that team.

I think JC brought him in and let him roam instead of making him do what he was best at - stand on the low block and own the boards. Not sure he could have averaged much more than 12 but he could've averaged 15 rebounds easy.

 

[huskyrob1]

Yeah, you could be right. I might be exagerating a bit. There are some offensive bright spots in our past.

Don't forget Josh, Hilton, Ed Nelson.

 

[Stainmaster]

Don't forget Josh, Hilton, Ed Nelson.

I'm curious as to whether or not you would've been parroting OP's point with Hilton as your main example from 2002-2005...

 

[Chief00]

No I'm not but I do know you ARE overestimating the talent they were coaching.

Not once have I said they are really good coaches and they've proven themselves. I am sure they know how to coach, maybe it's not good enough. But anyone evaluating them on the bigs they had these past 4 years are just downright crazy because none had the instincts higher than a 13-14 year old, and at that age I knew more than a couple of them. If you want to evaluate the recruiting I'm with you. If you want to get some smart players in here who don't get better over a couple years then changes need to be made. But to throw the crap at the staff for the players without any basketball instincts they were coaching not fair. As I've stated many times not even magicians can make some of these guys better, they're clueless at times. If you can't understand the game on your own without coaching after 4 years you have issues, never mind knowing they were being coached.

Recruit better and smarter players, everyone wins.

I never said they were loaded with Big talent. Big recruiting is an area that needs improvement but it goes hand and hand with big development. Good Bigs won't go there is they don't think they will be developed. Miller had a dismal track record.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I think JC brought him in and let him roam instead of making him do what he was best at - stand on the low block and own the boards. Not sure he could have averaged much more than 12 but he could've averaged 15 rebounds easy.

Exactly! He averaged 10 ppg without doing that so if he was used that way he wouldve added 3-5 rebounds and problably 3-5 ppg. He couldve and shouldve been a 15-10 in college easy!