Why are there no more dominant big east scorers?

[BigErnMcCracken]

I’m answering your thread title “Why are there no more dominant Big East scorers”?
……….and the reason is there are no more dominant Big East coaches. Plain and simple. No more Rollie, Jim Calhoun, Rick Pitino, big John Thompson, Rick Barnes, Nose Picker before his nose picker years, Carnasecca, PJ Carlisemo, George Blaney and Raff. Imagine three Big East teams at the Final Four like in 1985.

Doesn't even make sense. The leading scorer in the country plays for Mike Davis.

But the quality of coaching in the Big East as a general rule would be pretty far down the list of things to complaint about.

 

[kobe]

no game changing talent in the conference compared to other power leagues.

big east is just made up of a bunch of hard working, three and four year low skill players.

the last big east player to be drafted in the top 3 was Otto Porter in 2013.

 

[REB1094]

no game changing talent in the conference compared to other power leagues.

big east is just made up of a bunch of hard working, three and four year low skill players.

the last big east player to be drafted in the top 3 was Otto Porter in 2013.

And the last Big East player to be drafted anywhere was Tyrese Martin

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I’m answering your thread title “Why are there no more dominant Big East scorers”?
……….and the reason is there are no more dominant Big East coaches. Plain and simple. No more Rollie, Jim Calhoun, Rick Pitino, big John Thompson, Rick Barnes, Nose Picker before his nose picker years, Carnasecca, PJ Carlisemo, George Blaney and Raff. Imagine three Big East teams at the Final Four like in 1985.

 

[Huskyforlife]

A big “what if” for me this season, is if Hawkins never had his concussion, would he be averaging 20 points already? Cause I think it’s pretty obvious it took him some time to get back at 100%. I truly believe he’d be leading the conference in scoring, and be a no doubt late lottery pick. Jmo.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The entire premise of this thread, that a single player scoring 20+ ppg is a positive, is wrong. Concentrated scoring is a sign of weak talent on a team.

 

[willie99]

Give me depth and defense for the max Alex

And averages are averages, stuck somewhere between the lows and the highs. Weird how that happens with everything in life

Lastly, "it happens"

 

[willie99]

If Hawk plays a junior year and remains healthy, he challenges Ray's 23.5 points per game, also as a Junior

A Patrick Ewing playing 4 years will never happen again

 

[CONN78SEJ]

The entire premise of this thread, that a single player scoring 20+ ppg is a positive, is wrong. Concentrated scoring is a sign of weak talent on a team.

Like with Magic in his freshman and sophomore years at Michigan or Larry Bird at Indiana State? Or Maya Moore in her years at UConn?

 

[Okafour rings]

no game changing talent in the conference compared to other power leagues.

big east is just made up of a bunch of hard working, three and four year low skill players.

the last big east player to be drafted in the top 3 was Otto Porter in 2013.

Why did you just pick the top 3? Why didn't you point out the number of lottery picks from the Big East in the last 10 years? Is it because it would trash the point you're trying to make?

2013: Otto Porter, Georgetown #3
Steve Adams, Pitt #12
2014: Doug McDermott, Creighton #11
2016: Kris Dunn, Providence #5
2018: Mikal Bridges, Villanova #10
2021: James Bouknight, UConn #11

 

[kobe]

Why did you just pick the top 3? Why didn't you point out the number of lottery picks from the Big East in the last 10 years? Is it because it would trash the point you're trying to make?

2013: Otto Porter, Georgetown #3
Steve Adams, Pitt #12
2014: Doug McDermott, Creighton #11
2016: Kris Dunn, Providence #5
2018: Mikal Bridges, Villanova #10
2021: James Bouknight, UConn #11

that's absolutely why.

also 6 lottery picks over an 8 year period for an entire conference is pretty bad.

the real, actual conferences have multiple each season.

in disputing my obviously cherry picked numbers, you somehow made the little east look worse.

 

[superjohn]

Does Cincinnati still have a basketball team?

Well, other than Xavier?

 

[gtcam]

that's absolutely why.

also 6 lottery picks over an 8 year period for an entire conference is pretty bad.

the real, actual conferences have multiple each season.

in disputing my obviously cherry picked numbers, you somehow made the little east look worse.

You used to be semi tolerant now you are becoming a total DB
And Cinci is going anywhere in their new conference when the coach they need is at UCLA. Cinci will be the BC of that conference

 

[kobe]

Does Cincinnati still have a basketball team?

Well, other than Xavier?

cincinnati has won an ncaa tournament game more recently than both xavier and uconn. #littleeast

(dont ask me who the coach was for that win)

 

[MDHuskFan]

that's absolutely why.

also 6 lottery picks over an 8 year period for an entire conference is pretty bad.

the real, actual conferences have multiple each season.

in disputing my obviously cherry picked numbers, you somehow made the little east look worse.

Congrats to you for also leaving the American for a real conference. I see it hasn’t gone to your head.

Also, congratulations on your 9-19 record in a very deep, tough & talented American

 

[MDHuskFan]

I’m just kidding @kobe. Lottery picks for major conferences & programs should be something done frequently. Like the 2 Cincinnati lotto picks since 1970. Most recent being 2000.

 

[Ratso]

villanova -

 

[Excalibur]

Do we think that the talent in college basketball is how it was 10 or so years ago? Interested in the takes here.

It’s deeper.

 

[kobe]

Congrats to you for also leaving the American for a real conference. I see it hasn’t gone to your head.

Also, congratulations on your 9-19 record in a very deep, tough & talented American

 

[Deleted at users request]

It’s deeper.

I’d disagree.

 

[Excalibur]

I’d disagree.

Yeah, instruction, fitness, training methods all get worse over time.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah, instruction, fitness, training methods all get worse over time.

It's probably better right now than 10 years ago because of NIL and the NBA's aversion to big men who play in the post but once you get back to 20+ years ago and beyond it was much better then because most of the studs stayed in school.

I always hear this fitness/strength/speed stuff and it makes me chuckle. Sure, it's better now than 60 years ago but what exactly do you think changed now since the 90's/early 2000's?

 

[Deleted at users request]

Yeah, instruction, fitness, training methods all get worse over time.

Not that, all the best players take other routes nowadays.

Even looking at our own team, these guys aren’t as good from 10 years ago. Even if you remove 5* players we got from the equation.

Compare the top 5 players in cbb today to a year like 2012.

 

[pj]

I’m wondering about this too, but for a different reason. The way big east games are being officiated, it is like they are being played in the Thunderdome. Will that cost teams in the NCAA’s when all the hand checking in grabbing isn’t allowed?

But, UConn has the Kenpom #7 offense, Marquette the #3 offense, Xavier the #9 offense, Providence 18, Creighton 30, Villanova 42. What will the offenses do when they are no longer playing in the Thunderdome?

 

[Billy Jack]

While @AZHuskiePop gave lots of good, accurate info, there's one piece that may be missing. Teams aren't running ISO basketball anymore. The ball is simply shared more now in modern basketball. Usually, one guy really going off is a sign your offense is being shut down leading to poor shots on high volume by whatever player is best able to get them off. Case in point, Jalen Wilson at Kansas. In their 4 losses he has 26, 23, 30 and 38. He did put up 33 in a win, but that was against Southern Utah. He averages 19.9, and obviously averages less than that in games they win. When Bouknight put up 40 against Creighton, we lost.

You really don't want anybody accounting for that much of your scoring.

This ^^^

In addition, when playing in a league like the Big East, competition is much more balanced. It is harder to have big scoring outbursts against very good teams. In addition, each team has more depth of talent, so it’s unlikely that a single player is going to dominate the scoring.

 

[Billy Jack]

I don’t think the world is passing me by, but it definitely is passing by the Big East conference and has been for almost 20 years.

Nostalgia is a great thing, isn’t it?

In the last 20 years (2003-22) the Big East has produced the following national champions:

2003 - Syracuse
2004 - UConn
2011 - UConn
2013 - Louisville
2016 - Villanova
2018 - Villanova

The total number of BE teams in the Final Four in those 20 years was 11 in 19 tournaments. (2020 was canceled.)

In the prior 23 year history of the conference, the Big East produced 3 national champions and a total of 10 Final Four appearances.

Who is passing the Big East by in the last 20 years? Here is where the other 13 national champions have come from over the past 20 years:

6 - ACC
3 - SEC
3 - Big 12
1 - AAC
0 - Big Ten
0 - PAC XII

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Nostalgia is a great thing, isn’t it?

In the last 20 years (2003-22) the Big East has produced the following national champions:

2003 - Syracuse
2004 - UConn
2011 - UConn
2013 - Louisville
2016 - Villanova
2018 - Villanova

The total number of BE teams in the Final Four in those 20 years was 11 in 19 tournaments. (2020 was canceled.)

In the prior 23 year history of the conference, the Big East produced 3 national champions and a total of 10 Final Four appearances.

Who is passing the Big East by in the last 20 years? Here is where the other 13 national champions have come from over the past 20 years:

6 - ACC
3 - SEC
3 - Big 12
1 - AAC
0 - Big Ten
0 - PAC XII

You’re forgetting the title of the thread “Why are there no more dominant Big East scorers?”. It’s true too, the days of Caron Butler, Ray Allen, Carmelo Anthony, Patrick Ewing, Chris Mullin, Rip Hamilton, Dikembe Motumbo, Ed Pinckney, Troy Murphy, Ryan Gomes, Tim Thomas, Samuel Dalembert, Ron Artest, Rudy Gay, Hakim Warwick, Austin Croshere, Bill Wennington, and many many more are over. I’m sure I missed several pre-2005. All these guys were first round picks, and we haven’t seen the likes of them since. Times indeed are passing the Big East by. You bring up championships, and the point is a good one, with basketball being a team sport, but that’s not the point of this thread. My contention stands.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Nostalgia is a great thing, isn’t it?

In the last 20 years (2003-22) the Big East has produced the following national champions:

2003 - Syracuse
2004 - UConn
2011 - UConn
2013 - Louisville
2016 - Villanova
2018 - Villanova

The total number of BE teams in the Final Four in those 20 years was 11 in 19 tournaments. (2020 was canceled.)

In the prior 23 year history of the conference, the Big East produced 3 national champions and a total of 10 Final Four appearances.

Who is passing the Big East by in the last 20 years? Here is where the other 13 national champions have come from over the past 20 years:

6 - ACC
3 - SEC
3 - Big 12
1 - AAC
0 - Big Ten
0 - PAC XII

I think you need to scratch the one for 2013.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Like with Magic in his freshman and sophomore years at Michigan or Larry Bird at Indiana State? Or Maya Moore in her years at UConn?

Did you just compare Magic and Larry to......anyone?

 

[superjohn]

I don’t think the world is passing me by, but it definitely is passing by the Big East conference and has been for almost 20 years.

Big East programs have only won 4 out of the last 11 national championships and they only have 5 ranked teams in what was supposed to be a down season. You're right, everyone has clearly passed by the Big East.