Who We Want to Win (Besides Us, Of Course) | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Who We Want to Win (Besides Us, Of Course)

superjohn said:
Making any comparisons to the UConn Big East situation and the Big 10, SEC, Yankees/Red Sox is insanity.
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Yes. It's not the same thing. I think I'm one of the only other posters who sees it like you do, apparently.
 
Mr. French said:
So this would change for you 20 years ago? Or if we got invited to the big 10 tmrw?

It didn’t seem like that was your take, lolzzzzzz
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We're in remarkably different circumstances in the Big East than Ohio State is in the Big 10. The Big East reputation nationally is nothing like it used to be which can be a detriment in terms of teams getting into the tournament, seeding, recruiting, future TV contracts etc. and we make about 10 times less money than them. It's in our best interest for St. John's and other Big East programs to make the tournament and do well in the tournament and it doesn't matter for Ohio State if Michigan wins or not in the tournament.

You know I've always supported the Big East and will always continue to.
 
Mr. French said:
@superjohn talking about rooting against the “success” of the big east, actually just not rooting for your main rival to WIN IT ALL isn’t quite the same thing.

If I told you I wanted no other BE teams to be good and make the tourney, then your argument would make sense. We’re talking about winning national championships and outwardly rooting for your main rival to do what we want UConn to do.

If we missed on Castle and Clingan in recruiting did you hope they both went to Nova?

I want the other teams to be good because it helps in a certain way, of course, but I also don’t want them all winning national titles to prove that our league is good.
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Of course I want St. John's to win the national championship if we don't, that goes for every other program in the Big East. Of course I want the other Big East programs to get big time recruits.
 
KingAG said:
Arguing St John’s winning a national championship somehow helps UConn in a meaningful way is a reach beyond all reaches.
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Im not mad at anyone who doesnt want st johns to win. Im not a st johns fan. But when one of our biggest gripes all year is that the BE is down. If 5 of the last 10 Nattys are in the BE, with 3 of the last 4, it's a pretty good case to make to kids that this is a basketball conference. Also, the St Johns-UConn rivalry was the best in all college bball this year. I heard that on an SEC college radio show today, as well.

I dont think it's a seismic advantage but if you had to choose, why would you choose a p4? Thats the point. Im not over here wearing a white headband and a Lamont Middleton jersey or anything.
 
Jaydumo20 said:
Im not mad at anyone who doesnt want st johns to win. Im not a st johns fan. But when one of our biggest gripes all year is that the BE is down. If 5 of the last 10 Nattys are in the BE, with 3 of the last 4, it's a pretty to good case to make to kids that this is a basketball conference. Also, the St Johns-UConn rivalry was the best in all college bball this year.

I dont think it's a seismic advantage but if you had to choose, why would you choose a p4? Especially Duke?
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Keeping the Big East relevant is actually quite important, here as the P4's continue to shrink the rest of the landscape. Thinking otherwise is emotional and idiotic. It doesn't help Uconn directly, other than a share of the financials, but it does help the league that we are stuck in. Having a rivalry with some substance behind it would at least keep the heavyweight fights at a high level.
 
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superjohn said:
We're in remarkably different circumstances in the Big East than Ohio State is in the Big 10. The Big East reputation nationally is nothing like it used to be which can be a detriment in terms of teams getting into the tournament, seeding, recruiting, future TV contracts etc. and we make about 10 times less money than them. It's in our best interest for St. John's and other Big East programs to make the tournament and do well in the tournament and it doesn't matter for Ohio State if Michigan wins or not in the tournament.

You know I've always supported the Big East and will always continue to.
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That didn’t answer either question you quoted. If that’s your reasoning, then 20 years ago you wouldn’t have rooted for Cuse to win it all? If we got invited to the big 10 you’d root for Michigan and Purdue?

You also skirted around the other question: getting good recruits in the big east, yes….but my question was if we whiffed on castle and Clingan you’d want them both going to St. John’s or nova? Winning the title is an extreme take, it’s not just “rooting for the league.”

You’re acting like rooting for them to be a good program and a good league is the exact same thing as rooting for them to win it all which, at least for this year and next year puts them above us.

How you see those things as the same and that being good for UConn is literally nonsensical.

No one’s saying we want the overall league to stink. St. John’s in the s16 while we also are? Ok cool. But if we lose Friday and St. John’s wins the title, we are now BEHIND them. That doesn’t help UConn, by definition.
 
Mr. French said:
That didn’t answer either question you quoted. If that’s your reasoning, then 20 years ago you wouldn’t have rooted for Cuse to win it all? If we got invited to the big 10 you’d root for Michigan and Purdue?

You also skirted around the other question: getting good recruits in the big east, yes….but my question was if we whiffed on castle and Clingan you’d want them both going to St. John’s or nova? Winning the title is an extreme take, it’s not just “rooting for the league.”

You’re acting like rooting for them to be a good program and a good league is the exact same thing as rooting for them to win it all which, at least for this year and next year puts them above us.

How you see those things as the same and that being good for UConn is literally nonsensical.

No one’s saying we want the overall league to stink. St. John’s in the s16 while we also are? Ok cool. But if we lose Friday and St. John’s wins the title, we are now BEHIND them. That doesn’t help UConn, by definition.
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Loser's take. If they jump us, it's a challenge. That's sports and the beauty of it. Get them next year. You want that benchmark.

You 100% want them to win if it's not us. Sports isn't about being better than the less than great next guy just below you.
 
Jaydumo20 said:
Im not mad at anyone who doesnt want st johns to win. Im not a st johns fan. But when one of our biggest gripes all year is that the BE is down. If 5 of the last 10 Nattys are in the BE, with 3 of the last 4, it's a pretty good case to make to kids that this is a basketball conference. Also, the St Johns-UConn rivalry was the best in all college bball this year. I heard that on an SEC college radio show today, as well.

I dont think it's a seismic advantage but if you had to choose, why would you choose a p4? Thats the point. Im not over here wearing a white headband and a Lamont Middleton jersey or anything.
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Because St John’s being in the Sweet 16 already did their part. The BE needing to be better isn’t referring to St John’s at this point.

Idc if someone wants them to win a championship. I just think it’s asinine to call people “morons” or act like it’s rooting against UConn to root against St John’s.

I’d rather them just admit they have an affinity for other non UConn BE teams.

I don’t. Theyre BE fans. I’m a UConn fan only.

I want BE teams to be tournament teams. Once we are in the tournament i don’t have an affinity for them. They’ve done their part at that point
 
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RuffRuff said:
Loser's take. If they jump us, it's a challenge. That's sports and the beauty of it. Get them next year. You want that benchmark.

You 100% want them to win if it's not us. Sports isn't about being better than the less than great next guy just below you.
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No respond to his point. If they jump us how does that help UConn?

That’s been the Johnny Brigades whole argument, that it’s “good for UConn”.

Please expound.
 
RuffRuff said:
Loser's take. If they jump us, it's a challenge. That's sports and the beauty of it. Get them next year. You want that benchmark.

You 100% want them to win if it's not us. Sports isn't about being better than the less than great next guy just below you.
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The loser’s take is to root for your rivals to lose so you stay ahead of them? Got it. Another genius take in a long line of AI bot takes.

They’re in the s16 and won our league, they’re already a challenge to us, genius.

And no, I 100% don’t want them to win. I 0% want them to win the whole thing and give that ghoul another championship.
 
Mr. French said:
The loser’s take is to root for your rivals to lose so you stay ahead of them? Got it. Another genius take in a long line of AI bot takes.

They’re in the s16 and won our league, they’re already a challenge to us, genius.
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They’re struggling to prove how you MUST root for St Johns to be a good UConn fan

It’s a gargantuan task I must say
 
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Mr. French said:
Let’s add to this discussion that freakin’ RICK PITINO is their coach! Imagine me rooting for not only St John’s but Rick Pitino? People are trolling
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That's pretty much the whole thing. Norm Roberts taking St. John's to the top? Don't like it, but fine. Rick, or all people, Pitino? Will never root for that. Ever
 
Mr. French said:
The loser’s take is to root for your rivals to lose so you stay ahead of them? Got it. Another genius take in a long line of AI bot takes.

They’re in the s16 and won our league, they’re already a challenge to us, genius.

And no, I 100% don’t want them to win. I 0% want them to win the whole thing and give that ghoul another championship.
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I think your argument that "we're behind them" is faulty. Pitino doesn't have many years left. He's not building a program, he's assembling a series of one-offs, and this year he put together a good squad. He's losing Zuby, Hopkins, Mitchell and Sellers. He might be competitive in 2027, but it would be a near miracle if he has the same level of success as this year.

We have an actual program. Although Danny will be in a unique position of having to replace the irreplaceable AK, as well as Tarris (and Luke, apparently). Right now, we don't seem to have the pieces. There's a very good chance neither UConn nor StJ has a top 15 team next year.

Meantime, there's an actual rivalry here because of Pitino. Which means those games are higher national profile next year than anything the BE has had recently. It's good for the league, it's good for UConn's continued perception. It's better to have a top-heavy league with 2-3 teams than one team running away with it each year.

I don't think it's a minority opinion that the BE was truly a power conference when we were getting 8 teams into the dance. And that it was more fun. With 6 NCs to our name, I'm not worried about being "behind" any BE team. We're simply not. I do worry that the conference becomes more irrelevant, as that's really the worst outcome for UConn than not winning it all in any given year.

Please tell me how any remaining team besides StJ helps UConn by winning it all. I'd love to see that argument.
 
Mr. French said:
Let’s add to this discussion that freakin’ RICK PITINO is their coach! Imagine me rooting for not only St John’s but Rick Pitino? People are trolling
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TV rev, eyeballs, recruiting, league clout, entertainment value.

I honestly don't know what the downside is other than being butthurt. It certainly doesn't reduce the UConn brand at all.
 
This is a debate that requires UConn to lose in order to play out. I wouldn’t start planning for either Duke or St John’s to make it out of the East just yet.

St. John’s is on the wrong side of most of what I love about college basketball. They hired a known slimeball championship-nullifying coach, they bankrolled an entire roster of itinerant mercenaries, and they play a style that makes me want to gouge my eyes out. I don’t want any of that to be rewarded or validated, and I don’t actually think success in this approach is beneficial to UConn or the Big East in the long run.

It’s more likely to all be moot this weekend anyway.
 
Since rooting for a team has zero outcome on the games result, why in the blue hell would anyone get their shorts twisted over who anyone roots for and why they are rooting for them?
 
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Mr. French said:
That didn’t answer either question you quoted. If that’s your reasoning, then 20 years ago you wouldn’t have rooted for Cuse to win it all? If we got invited to the big 10 you’d root for Michigan and Purdue?

You also skirted around the other question: getting good recruits in the big east, yes….but my question was if we whiffed on castle and Clingan you’d want them both going to St. John’s or nova? Winning the title is an extreme take, it’s not just “rooting for the league.”

You’re acting like rooting for them to be a good program and a good league is the exact same thing as rooting for them to win it all which, at least for this year and next year puts them above us.

How you see those things as the same and that being good for UConn is literally nonsensical.

No one’s saying we want the overall league to stink. St. John’s in the s16 while we also are? Ok cool. But if we lose Friday and St. John’s wins the title, we are now BEHIND them. That doesn’t help UConn, by definition.
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I did answer your question. I said I've always supported the Big East and will always continue to.

Obviously I didn't want St. John's or any other team in the country to outrecruit us and land Donovan Clingan and Steph Castle over us but in your hypothetical I would want them and every other top recruit at Big East schools if they didn't come to UConn instead of at Duke, Michigan, Kentucky etc.

Do you want Dybantsa, Boozer, Acuff at the schools they are currently at instead of at Big East schools?

If UConn doesn't win it all this season would you prefer Duke winning it all over St. John's of those are your options?
 
KingAG said:
No respond to his point. If they jump us how does that help UConn?

That’s been the Johnny Brigades whole argument, that it’s “good for UConn”.

Please expound.
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So you just want some Big East teams outside of UConn making the tournament and you don't want any of them to have great success in the tournament.
 
storrsroars said:
I think your argument that "we're behind them" is faulty. Pitino doesn't have many years left. He's not building a program, he's assembling a series of one-offs, and this year he put together a good squad. He's losing Zuby, Hopkins, Mitchell and Sellers. He might be competitive in 2027, but it would be a near miracle if he has the same level of success as this year.

We have an actual program. Although Danny will be in a unique position of having to replace the irreplaceable AK, as well as Tarris (and Luke, apparently). Right now, we don't seem to have the pieces. There's a very good chance neither UConn nor StJ has a top 15 team next year.

Meantime, there's an actual rivalry here because of Pitino. Which means those games are higher national profile next year than anything the BE has had recently. It's good for the league, it's good for UConn's continued perception. It's better to have a top-heavy league with 2-3 teams than one team running away with it each year.

I don't think it's a minority opinion that the BE was truly a power conference when we were getting 8 teams into the dance. And that it was more fun. With 6 NCs to our name, I'm not worried about being "behind" any BE team. We're simply not. I do worry that the conference becomes more irrelevant, as that's really the worst outcome for UConn than not winning it all in any given year.

Please tell me how any remaining team besides StJ helps UConn by winning it all. I'd love to see that argument.
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I don’t have to read beyond your first sentence, because once they win a national championship and we don’t, they are now definitively ahead of us, especially after winning the regular and BET. My goal is for my favorite team to win and my bitter rival not to. They are now ahead of me, for that season which is the main discussion.

Obviously I get long term benefits to it, but that doesn’t outweigh anything for me this season. I have confidence Danny will have us doing well so I’m not rooting for them to reach the goals we had. Simple.
 
storrsroars said:
I think your argument that "we're behind them" is faulty. Pitino doesn't have many years left. He's not building a program, he's assembling a series of one-offs, and this year he put together a good squad. He's losing Zuby, Hopkins, Mitchell and Sellers. He might be competitive in 2027, but it would be a near miracle if he has the same level of success as this year.

We have an actual program. Although Danny will be in a unique position of having to replace the irreplaceable AK, as well as Tarris (and Luke, apparently). Right now, we don't seem to have the pieces. There's a very good chance neither UConn nor StJ has a top 15 team next year.

Meantime, there's an actual rivalry here because of Pitino. Which means those games are higher national profile next year than anything the BE has had recently. It's good for the league, it's good for UConn's continued perception. It's better to have a top-heavy league with 2-3 teams than one team running away with it each year.

I don't think it's a minority opinion that the BE was truly a power conference when we were getting 8 teams into the dance. And that it was more fun. With 6 NCs to our name, I'm not worried about being "behind" any BE team. We're simply not. I do worry that the conference becomes more irrelevant, as that's really the worst outcome for UConn than not winning it all in any given year.

Please tell me how any remaining team besides StJ helps UConn by winning it all. I'd love to see that argument.
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You're right about Pitino just assembling mercenary squads and not having much time left. If Creighton was in, or Marquette, or Xavier, or PC, or Villanova or even Seton Hall, I'd hope they go as far as they can. I want the Big East to be good again, much better than it has been (at least as long as we are stuck in it). I do not want St. Johns to be a part of that. I want them to be the worst team in the league. I want that to start immediately. I want Pitino's attempts to build a new squad of mercenaries next year to fail miserably.
 
RuffRuff said:
TV rev, eyeballs, recruiting, league clout, entertainment value.

I honestly don't know what the downside is other than being butthurt. It certainly doesn't reduce the UConn brand at all.
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What’s the downside of anyone winning instead of UConn besides being butthurt.

Faulty logic.

I’m not rooting for anyone to win if we don’t. But I’m damn sure rooting for a couple to lose.

And yes it’s because I don’t like them and I’d be butthurt.

I’m a UConn fan.

I think it’s strange that anyone here would be actively rooting for anyone besides UConn to win a National Championship. When no one anywhere, including other BE fans, is hoping the same for us.

The BE, its leadership, and its fans do not ever wish the best for us. Most of them didn’t want us back. Willard literally said it. Most of them don’t want us here. They would revel in the opportunity to celebrate our demise as they’ve done in the past. So miss me with the BE Pom poms. How about you win some OOC games when you can actually help UConn and the BE.


Fandom is not and has never been about revenue. No one goes to a game and wonders how much money we’re going to make if we win.

It’s a reach. We all know it’s a reach. And you don’t have to root for St John’s to root for UConn. It’s insane it has to be said.
 
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RuffRuff said:
I honestly don't know what the downside is other than being butthurt. It certainly doesn't reduce the UConn brand at all.
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The press fawning allover St John's is bad now. It will be worse if they go further than us in the tourney. It would be a hit for our brand by stealing our thunder. It doesn't always work that way but would in this case.
 
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KingAG said:
What’s the downside of anyone winning instead of UConn besides being butthurt.

Faulty logic.

I’m not rooting for anyone to win if we don’t. But I’m damn sure rooting for a couple to lose.

And yes it’s because I don’t like them and I’d be butthurt.

I’m a UConn fan.

I think it’s strange that anyone here would be actively rooting for anyone besides UConn to win a National Championship. When no one anywhere, including other BE fans, is hoping the same for us.

Fandom is not and has never been about revenue. No one goes to a game and wonders how much money we’re going to make if we win.

It’s a reach. We all know it’s a reach. And you don’t have to root for St John’s to root for UConn. It’s insane it has to be said.
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Well said.

Being “butthurt” that your team loses and your bitter rival wins is literally the perfect description of fandom. What are we even talking about?
 
Palatine said:
The press fawning allover St John's is bad now. It will be worse if they go further than us in the tourney. It would be a hit for our brand by stealing our thunder. It doesn't always work that way but would in this case.
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That’s not been mentioned but another downside. They already had fawning when they beat the crap out of us. We’ll have a whole offseason of how good they are and how Pitino dominated us. But that’s better for us than them losing and a different team winning, according to some.
 
Mr. French said:
That’s not been mentioned but another downside. They already had fawning when they beat the crap out of us. We’ll have a whole offseason of how good they are and how Pitino dominated us. But that’s better for us than them losing and a different team winning, according to some.
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Since UConn has been winning championships, they have never been in a conference with other teams who were routinely winning championships. The knock even on the historically good BE seasons were how they didn’t win in the tournament. Now all of a sudden we “need St John’s” to win if we don’t. It’s bologna.

It’s not lost on me that the ones pushing that are the ones who been in love with Pitino and St John’s since the off season.

At least we’re being honest
 
I don't really care either way about people rooting for or against St John's. But it seems kind of silly to be having this discussion now when I think 100% of UConn fans will agree we're not rooting for them to win any further than Friday anyway
 
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