Whitmer will be awesome next year! | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Whitmer will be awesome next year!

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Some of us need to accept the fact that all of the components of these equations are not fixed. The series that Boyle played against ECU was at a time when a) Whitmer was very effective, b) Boyle appeared more timid and stiff than ever and c) we were very much in that game and a victory was within reach.
 
Creating percentages is completely meaningless. You either win or lose. Zero sum game.

Coaches over value practice, always have, always will. It's because they can control everything in practice. This is not possible in games and everyone responds differently to live bullets. Coaches make personnel mistakes all the time. But the bigger issue here is not giving a player a FAIR chance. Just like P with Nebrich.

At this point there is zero value in playing Whitmer.

You and uconn34 are LOL funny! Take a deep breath and really look past your rose colored blinders. You will see what everyone else does, the value of playing Whitmer is he is saving Boyles life. He may get stronger and faster but right now with our line he is D1 fodder. To be blind of the fact the coaching staff and a large % of us village idiots see this and you do not should at least have you taking a closer look.
 
Whether you favor Whitmer playing out the string or Boyle getting valuable game experience for the future, the one rational idea I would endorse is letting Boyle play at least three successive series. The three downs and hit the bench routine is neither confidence boosting nor helpful for team chemistry. I'd like to see Tim come into a game knowing that if he didn't move the team on that one series he would have a few more successive chances to adjust and perform---both in executing plays and leading the team with confidence.
THIS!

I have been clamoring for Boyle to play more yet Whitmer showed that he could lead this team to some semblance of an Offense on Thursday so he has earned the starting gig again next week. However, everyone here is judging Boyle off what he did this season when he enters games KNOWING that if he screws up he's done for the game. Not ONCE has he been given the chance to prove what he can do to bounce back. It would be nice to see the staff recognize this and if they're gonna give him a series, make it be a few series in a row so they can fully see what they have in Boyle in a game setting, not just practice.
 
If the only argument for Boyle playing is that the experience may benefit him next year, then it's not a good enough reason IMO. It sounds like just about everyone agrees that Whitmer has been the better QB (there are one or two "hold outs" of note, but I won't note them). Well, the coach is supposed to play the best players on the team. Period.

Boyle has been given chances and, for the most part, they've been squandered. I hope he comes back next year and looks like Dan Marino, but he clearly isn't the best QB on the team right now and therefore shouldn't be taking the snaps. There are still 85 or so players on this roster that still want to be put into a winning situation. And with each passing week, it becomes increasingly clear that Whitmer is putting us in a better situation to win than Boyle...
 
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THIS!

I have been clamoring for Boyle to play more yet Whitmer showed that he could lead this team to some semblance of an Offense on Thursday so he has earned the starting gig again next week. However, everyone here is judging Boyle off what he did this season when he enters games KNOWING that if he screws up he's done for the game. Not ONCE has he been given the chance to prove what he can do to bounce back. It would be nice to see the staff recognize this and if they're gonna give him a series, make it be a few series in a row so they can fully see what they have in Boyle in a game setting, not just practice.

Yup, and we can also assume the practice reps with the first team for Boyle are close to nil.

I honestly doubt Boyle would come in and right away be better than Whitmer (he probably would be worse) but if Boyle got all of the practice reps and playing time from Stony Brook on and learned from his mistakes each week, it is entirely possible he would be as good or even better than Whitmer is right now. Whitmer has reached his ceiling, Boyle has barely gotten off the ground.

I think this whole situation speaks volumes for who Diaco expects to be the QB next year. There will be a new Shirreff in town.
 
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Yup, and we can also assume the practice reps with the first team for Boyle are close to nil.
How can we be sure of that? My guess is that from the day Casey retired the first team reps would be pretty even between Boyle and Whitmer. I have no evidence to support or refute this but logically this should be the case.
 
How can we be sure of that? My guess is that from the day Casey retired the first team reps would be pretty even between Boyle and Whitmer. I have no evidence to support or refute this but logically this should be the case.

If the practice reps are split evenly that is coaching to fail, I doubt that is the case. The starter should get the bulk of the reps if we are trying to win.
 
Just to add to the discussion:

Whitmer is the #73 QB in quarterback rating this year with 127.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...assing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating/count/41

Boyle, if you even average last year's numbers which were higher, is still 30 points below the lowest rated QB in the country, and with 150 D1 attempts, has thrown 0 TDs and 10 INTs.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/546675/tim-boyle

Let's all let that sink in for a minute. One of these guys catches so much crap on this board that he wouldn't even be safe wearing galoshes. The other is supposedly the next coming of Joe Montana. But the stats say the exact opposite. And yet the Boneyard keeps on keepin' on...
 
Let's all let that sink in for a minute. One of these guys catches so much crap on this board that he wouldn't even be safe wearing galoshes. The other is supposedly the next coming of Joe Montana. But the stats say the exact opposite. And yet the Boneyard keeps on keepin' on...

For the record, (not that anyone cares), I am not anti Whitmer, I am pro building for next year and pro seeing what we have behind door # 3 before Monty Hall takes that option away......

...but I concede that at this point we might as well wait until we have no shot at a bowl.
 
For the record, (not anyone cares), I am not anti Whitmer, I am pro building for next year and pro seeing what we have behind door # 3 before Monty Hall takes it away.

I'm pro building for next year too. And part of that building is giving the WR's something to catch. Part of that building is giving the RB's someone to take the pressure off of them. Part of that building is keeping the ball longer than a 3-and-out or an INT so that the defense isn't on the field 3/4 of the day.

In other words, Boyle isn't the only player on the squad that needs to build for the future...
 
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I'm pro building for next year too. And part of that building is giving the WR's something to catch. Part of that building is giving the RB's someone to take the pressure off of them. Part of that building is keeping the ball longer than a 3-and-out or an INT so that the defense isn't on the field 3/4 of the day.

In other words, Boyle isn't the only player on the squad that needs to build for the future...


I hear that but I don't agree with it. The development of the QB take precedence over everything else, plus the WR's needs to learn to catch Boyle's fastball.
 
I hear that but I don't agree with it. The development of the QB take precedence over everything else, plus the WR's needs to learn to catch Boyle's fastball.

Yes, because over the last two years, they've never had to catch his "fastball" in practice or in games...ever... :confused:
 
Boyle has already had more game experience than any heir apparent normally receives. I have no idea what you guys expect to happen with him.

The fact he can't displace a very game bit limited QB says all I need to hear. That's before his weekly 3 and out/interception appearance. He's played enough to throw 10 interceptions and zero TD. His completion % is worse than CW's.

Chalk some up that up to getting jerked around, a little more to youth, and you still have a mountain of suck he needs to answer for.

I wanted one thing from CW this year, throw fewer picks, and he's done that with an offense, mindbogglingly, worse than last season. If everyone on the squad improved as much as he did, we'd have more wins.
 
IMO, either play Boyle more or don't play him at all. I've no idea what we are trying to accomplish by running him in cold for a few plays and then giving him the clipboard back. At the beginning it made sense - get this kid some action before Whitmer gets hurt, not after. But now, I'm less certain how this is helping anyone, as is. I get what Diaco is doing along the OL, at RB, LB, etc., but this one leaves me puzzled.

I'm not a fan of Whitmer in many respects. While he is a gamer, he is what he is. And leaping up to #73 after a very good game, certainly leaves one asking where was he before last week - or where he might be next. But either let him play out the string, or give TB more than one series.

The good news is that we are no longer the team with the most sacks given up - Go Wyoming!!
 
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IMO, either play Boyle more or don't play him at all. I've no idea what we are trying to accomplish by running him in cold for a few plays and then giving him the clipboard back. At the beginning it made sense - get this kid some action before Whitmer gets hurt, not after. But now, I'm less certain how this is helping anyone, as is. I get what Diaco is doing along the OL, at RB, LB, etc., but this one leaves me puzzled.

I'm not a fan of Whitmer in many respects. While he is a gamer, he is what he is. And leaping up to #73 after a very good game, certainly leaves one asking where was he before last week - or where he might be next. But either let him play out the string, or give TB more than one series.

The good news is that we are no longer the team with the most sacks given up - Go Wyoming!!

It was a mistake. He should have kept the RS on unless there was a reason to pull it. After Cochran, Whitmer should have been it unless he got hurt. Then Foxx could have come in during an emergency to close out a game. THEN, if Whitmer was ruled out for the season, a decision could have been made. Go with Foxx, or get Boyle ready and burn the RS.

The other scenario I would have been ok with would have been playing Boyle 100% of the time once Cochran got hurt. Ride or die.
 
My guess is that every time Boyle gets in the game, coach hopes something good will happen and then he can leave him in. Boyle then throws a pick and Bob thinks, "not today, I guess".

Unfortunately, the pressure builds on Boyle every time he goes out there and makes a mistake with no opportunity to play through it. It becomes an emotional nightmare for him and he never gets the chance to work his way out of it. I'd rather he play a whole half and throw 3 picks than play a series a game and throw 1 pick 3 games in a row but only get in 10 snaps for his trouble. Just let him get out there and take his lumps all at once until he gets it together.
 
At this point there is zero value in playing Whitmer.

I think what drives me absolutely bonkers about Palatine is his hubris and total confidence that he is 100% right about something with so many unknowns.

Maybe Whitmer is legitimately better than Boyle. Maybe the other players don't look up to Boyle as much. Maybe he's mentally not ready to be the starting QB. Maybe he's not giving it his all in practice. Maybe he's already said he wants to transfer next season. Maybe we're worried about a less mature, less mobile QB getting hurt behind our porous O-line.

We don't know so much, so the absolute arrogance to just assume there is absolutely no value in playing Whitmer is mind-blowing.

Would I play Boyle more than Diaco has? Sure. But it's not the most insane decision ever, either. Sure, we have no future with Whitmer. But we're trying to recruit kids and fans right now, and if Whitmer gives us the best chance to win games and energize the flagging fan base and/or excitement from recruits, then I see no problem with it. Winning is infectious and has its own rewards other than the development of a single QB.
 
I think what drives me absolutely bonkers about Palatine is his hubris and total confidence that he is 100% right about something with so many unknowns.



Let's be honest - most of us think we are absolutely right about a lot of things shared here. One of the few facts about the BY is that most of us know almost nothing about what is going on within this program - and that is the way it should be.

I do applaud someone sticking to their guns, even when faced with overwhelming negative reactions and actual facts that discredit their argument. It's what contributes to this place being what it is. As an example, had he posted this after the Tulane game, I would likely have agreed. Posting it after the ECU game has done something even I find hard to believe - it has left me rallying around CW to finish out his senior campaign under center.
 
My guess is that every time Boyle gets in the game, coach hopes something good will happen and then he can leave him in. Boyle then throws a pick and Bob thinks, "not today, I guess".

This seems to be exactly what is happening. And that's why so many of us are frustrated. SO not the way to manage this. But he forced his own hand by burning the RS.
 
Whitmer was effective against man coverage. He was totally ineffective against zone coverage. Fact is he doesn't have the arm to beat a zone. I have accepted that Boyle is not the answer however. I don't believe he's been provided with a fair shake, its tough to prove yourself with one series per game but he's been totally ineffective when on the field and he must not be performing in practice. As bad as Whitmer has been I'm confident that Boyle would be on the field if the coaches thought he gave us a shot at winning. Still it wouldn't hurt to give him a quarter instead of a series if we're down big in the 2nd half of a game.

I expect to see a ton of zone against UCF. Its just a sad situation at QB. I still think we need to see Foxx and the read option a few series per game.
 
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For the record, (not that anyone cares), I am not anti Whitmer, I am pro building for next year and pro seeing what we have behind door # 3 before Monty Hall takes that option away.

...but I concede that at this point we might as well wait until we have no shot at a bowl.

A few things stick out for me. The fact that RD chose not to red shirt Boyle, the way Boyle is being used and the continued playing of CW lead me to one conclusion. Coach RD and his offensive staff don't seem to feel that the future QB is on the roster or, at least, the roster that's allowed to play this year.

Forget, better chance to win. If the coaching staff felt that another roster QB would benefit the offense and the team's future, that QB would be playing. Whether we agree or not, it seems that the coaching staff feels that CW is the only QB with the combo of skills, knowledge and psyche that gives the offense even the appearance of credibility.
 
A few things stick out for me. The fact that RD chose not to red shirt Boyle, the way Boyle is being used and the continued playing of CW lead me to one conclusion. Coach RD and his offensive staff don't seem to feel that the future QB is on the roster or, at least, the roster that's allowed to play this year.

Forget, better chance to win. If the coaching staff felt that another roster QB would benefit the offense and the team's future, that QB would be playing. Whether we agree or not, it seems that the coaching staff feels that CW is the only QB with the combo of skills, knowledge and psyche that gives the offense even the appearance of credibility.

Based on what I"ve seen so far in 2014 through 7 games, my guess is that Whitmer is the kind of QB that coach wanted to play offense with, but didn't have the rest of the offense around him to start, and the offense is finally starting to catch up. I think that the kind of offense that suited Cochran and Boyle, is what we've been mostly playing up until the past 2 games, where Whitmer actually started running. A QB that is a threat to run, will at least slow down the DE's and LB's rushing for a step or two. The other thing to note, is that given all of that, having Whitmer running regularly through the first 7 games, is a pretty big risk, given there is nobody except Foxx behind him on the depth chart, that has any of the same kind of traits. Transition season on offense, for sure.

Doesn't excuse the fact that we f---king lost to Tulane, and Coach needs to find his sack when it's 4th down late in the game and we're in opposing territory.
 
I think that given everything CW has put into the program over the last few years, especially the beatings he's has taken, there should not be be any of these stupid Summer's Eve level threads. The kid has done nothing but what's been asked of him and given his all and these threads are what he gets?

If one wants to question Diaco or take shots at his decision making that's fine, he's in charge; but to say sarcastic garbage like "Whitmer will awesome next year" is asinine and childish.
 
I'm pro building for next year too. And part of that building is giving the WR's something to catch. Part of that building is giving the RB's someone to take the pressure off of them. Part of that building is keeping the ball longer than a 3-and-out or an INT so that the defense isn't on the field 3/4 of the day.

In other words, Boyle isn't the only player on the squad that needs to build for the future...

Until this week the RB's have had no one to allow them room to run as whether it was Whitmer 95% of the time or Boyle 5% neither was good. And while I agree totally on getting the WR's the ball and having someone to throw it to them let's not fool ourselves, there hasn't been much of that either. Yeah it was a good week, not great. ECU allowed more space for everyone to work in and that's great. I am not saying Boyle is the answer to the spot next year either but I do know Whitmer can't be! And next year, unfortunately, is what they are playing for now and for the rest of the year. Add to that it's much easier to run patterns and catch the ball next year than it will be for someone to get behind the center and begin to read defense after not playing more than a few downs this year. Hey, it may be the Wolfpack transfer or the Davis kid we don't know. But why waste a full year on the only one on the roster now that has the potential to be the guy, maybe he isn't, but certainly not fair to throw him out there on occasion rather than giving him a chance for some sort of rhythm. What's it going to hurt? Whitmer deserves to play as I said because he stuck it out, great kid blah blah blah......split it up and let's see what we got!! Whitmer isn't that clear cut that's for damn sure!
 
As this season has gone on, and I've been able to watch actual games, I actually believe Diaco when he's said that he really wants to play Boyle more. I think the kind of offense that we started the season with, is well suited for Boyle (as it was for Cochran). But the indisputable fact is that every time he gets in the game he f---ks up. Can't have that. Got to show production. My real solution to all of this, what I would have preferred, is that Whitmer (or Cochran) start - 100% of the reps, and that is that. But that's not what happened, and my only way to rationalize it, is that the coaches actually have been doing the best they can, with what they had to work with, and that started, with a power I formation base offense, pro-set, which is what Pasqualoni was attempting to develop for 2 1/2 seasons. It seems to me, that the only way it makes sense to have done what we did with Cochran and Whitmer early- with Whitmer getting the minimal snaps, was that they started with that, and immediately were starting to work in the offense as well, that we basically saw opened up against ECU.

Who knows what happens if Cochran never goes out, but my guess, is that we would have kept the I-formation base that Cochran worked well out of going, and on the side, kept developing the kind of offense we saw Whitmer run the past 2 weeks - with a threat of a QB run, and spread/read option stuff. I like the offense we saw against ECU - if we can sustain a running game out of that, - it's an effective college offense to recruit and run and score out of. I also like the pro-set as well - but we've proven for several years now, that we don't have the OL recruits to run it.

As far as Boyle goes - it's pretty simple, that if the kid was being productive on the field, that he would probably have filled in Cochran's role in the offense, but he simply hasn't, and I have formed the opinion, strongly, that anyone claiming otherwise has personal bias - because the kid is local.

I just hope we can take what we did last Thursday night, and sustain that level of play, and not let the opponent dictate to us. The rest of this is just nonsense. Whitmer is our starting QB. He's a high character individual, quality leader, and tough as they come for the position, and when he has time to throw - he's accurate. THat's the 3 most important things you need from a QB. If Boyle was better at those three things - I'm sure he'd be playing.

Whitmer, barring injury, is clearly finishing out his senior season, and I'll be cheering him and the offense on, and I wish this crap would stop with these QB discussions.
 
LRock34 said:
Whitmer was effective against man coverage. He was totally ineffective against zone coverage. Fact is he doesn't have the arm to beat a zone. I have accepted that Boyle is not the answer however. I don't believe he's been provided with a fair shake, its tough to prove yourself with one series per game but he's been totally ineffective when on the field and he must not be performing in practice. As bad as Whitmer has been I'm confident that Boyle would be on the field if the coaches thought he gave us a shot at winning. Still it wouldn't hurt to give him a quarter instead of a series if we're down big in the 2nd half of a game.

I expect to see a ton of zone against UCF. Its just a sad situation at QB. I still think we need to see Foxx and the read option a few series per game.

I agree that Boyle has not entered any season knowing he was the starting QB and instead has prepared to redshirt both seasons before outside factors pushed him into action. But, that can't be addressed until after this season, so for right now, he isn't the answer.

He'll have an entire offseason, spring, and fall camp to become a legit D1 QB. I hope he does, so long as the peanut gallery keeps quiet with the I told you so's because he's proved that he isn't there right now.
 
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