Which Will Become the Better Pro? KLS? Or Pheesa?

[Carnac]

@Scoop thanks as usual pulled the wheat from the chaff. Durable is an excellent word to describe Napheesa. I'm not on a speaking basis with anyone coaching or even near and W team so what their assessment of Collier is or maybe. It kinda kick me in the gut to think Napheesa may not be as appreciated as we here do. True, she'd get the energizer bunny tired.
I knew she played with the USA tryouts and got good grades and I guess by extention she played with WNBA players. The only proof of how she will play or how long in the W begins with the draft. I don't care about where she may end up. Many terrific W players were not numbers 1,2,3. Again Scoop, enjoyable read, thanks.

I too am surprised at some of the skepticism some posters are harboring. I guess they’re watching a different Napheesa Collier than I am. There is no doubt in my mind that Collier will shine professionally in the W and overseas for a long time.

 

[Woof 101]

This would be a great topic to discuss starting on April 8th..... JMHO .....

 

[inthisopinion]

Another delusional position. Strother didn't do anything as well as KLS. KLS can & does play inside or outside and if she played up front all the time she certainly would average a double double. However, she is a victim of her versatility which allows for her to play well anywhere on the floor. Thus, having her game contribute in more ways than any other current player but not allowing her to pile up specific stats.

 

[inthisopinion]

Now some of you people are actually comparing Collier to the greatest college player of all time. Collier doesn't do anything as well as Maya did. Maya played all over the floor at the highest level. I don't think anyone can ever accuse Collier of that. Look, Collier does what she does very well but that what is limited and specialized. Maybe in the right situation she can transfer that to the next level but let's not get ridiculous with comparisons.

 

[bbballfan23]

Another delusional position. Strother didn't do anything as well as KLS. KLS can & does play inside or outside and if she played up front all the time she certainly would average a double double. However, she is a victim of her versatility which allows for her to play well anywhere on the floor. Thus, having her game contribute in more ways than any other current player but not allowing her to pile up specific stats.

While we’re on the topic of delusional. You realize the last player at UConn to average a double-double was Lobo right?? You make it sound easy.

Now some of you people are actually comparing Collier to the greatest college player of all time. Collier doesn't do anything as well as Maya did. Maya played all over the floor at the highest level. I don't think anyone can ever accuse Collier of that. Look, Collier does what she does very well but that what is limited and specialized. Maybe in the right situation she can transfer that to the next level but let's not get ridiculous with comparisons.

Collier will be taken because of her versatility, it’s constantly stated. She is not Maya Moore, I agree but to say she is limited is just false.

 

[ccwarrior]

Everybody loves Lou, but because of her athleticism she often struggles to get her own shot against college players. How might she do against the pros?

 

[iri10]

They both have their own strengths, so I think (early on at least) it depends on how compatible their WNBA team is with their specific skillset.

Off topic: Megan Walker's freshman-sophomore performance clearly lags the freshman-sophomore performance of both Collier and Sameulson. But barring injuries I think her pro career may well be just as good as those two. Possibly better than one or both of them. Her potential skills and body are very suitable for WNBA wing duty, IMO.

 

[ricky]

Yes, but Maya played everywhere on the court: threes, under the basket, driving to the basket. She was everywhere and could score from anywhere.

Pheesa is an under the basket player. Really not much of a threat from anywhere else...

Collier is forced to play as a center because no one else on the team is a badass down there. This won't be her role under trader Bill. He will use her offensive mastery in many other ways. Why can't Lou finger roll. She always goes into a jump shot posture when she drives to the rim and gets packed every time. That won't work in the W.

 

[Carnac]

Now some of you people are actually comparing Collier to the greatest college player of all time. Collier doesn't do anything as well as Maya did. Maya played all over the floor at the highest level. I don't think anyone can ever accuse Collier of that. Look, Collier does what she does very well but that what is limited and specialized. Maybe in the right situation she can transfer that to the next level but let's not get ridiculous with comparisons.

My comparison of Collier to Maya Moore was not ridiculous. If you think it is, you're completely missing my point and the context of the comparison. I was debating Fairfield on whether Collier's height was going to hinder her as he suggested it would. I specifically used Maya in comparison because of her success and longevity in professional basketball. Maya is listed as 6'0" tall, Collier is listed at 6'1" tall. THAT was the only comparison between the two I was attempting to make, THEIR HEIGHT!! The comparison DID NOT go beyond that. Nowhere in my narrative did I suggest that Collier was, could or would be as good/great as Maya. This was my comparison to Maya: "I appreciate your take on Collier.......BUT, I remind you that Maya Moore is only 6'0". I rest my case." I don't know where you're getting all of the comparisons you referrer to from my reference. Now, if you want to debate Maya's height, have at it.

inthisopinion, my handle is "Scoop" If you want to challenge or rebut something I write, please refer to me as Scoop, not "some of you people". That phrase suggests an air of arrogance, and superiority over the "some of you people" you refer to.

I'm the one that first made the comparison. I'm ALWAYS courteous to the posters that I respond to by using their correct handle. I don't demean anyone, it's not my style. Everyone has an opinion, and is welcome to it and to express it. I also don't call other poster's comments or opinions ridiculous or delusional (a reference you used in response to another poster's comments). Who am I to decide if someone take is ridiculous or not if I don't agree with it? I'm not a keeper of the Boneyard, just a visitor. I would appreciate that same courtesy. Thanks.

 

[Carnac]

Recalling Lawson's comments during, I think, the South Carolina game when she mentioned that you couldn't tell the difference between the pro players and Collier when she worked out with them last summer. For me - it's Pheesa.

Lawson is a coach on the women's USA Olympic BB team. The woman knows basketball!! She played 4 years for Pat Summit and 12 years in the WNBA. I respect Lawson's opinion and observations. She was there, I was not.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Not diminishing Pheesa by any means. But her scoring appears more dependent on Coach Geno's style of play, which uses constant motion to get her free underneath. With a team with a more traditional coach, will she get the motion offense to get her free shots underneath?

Not sure...

thats why Geno loves her, she adapted to what he wanted quickly. Unlike others (maybe, Walker) who were stuck doing what they do (from their high school day) and Geno sat them in the doghouse

 

[Husky fanatic]

Pheesa

 

[HopJim]

We don't know enough to answer the question. Pheesa gets most of her points today on layups from fast breaks or pick and roles. With pro size and speed, she is not likely to be able to do this next year and will have to develop an out side game. Can she? Jury's out.

 

[meyers7]

Lou is way tougher than some of the posters above claim. She may appear fragile because she is always smiling and having a good time - but I know I wouldn't have played a full half on a broken foot like she did her freshman season!

In this instance fragile and tough are not opposites. One can be fragile and tough. Tough means you play through injuries/sickness/being bumped and held/dishing out as well as you get. Fragile means you have a lot of injuries.

 

[JoePgh]

I have some reluctance to re-post what I said in another thread, but since it is more relevant to this thread than to the other one anyway, let me do that. I said:

What [Pheesa]] seems to be saying is that she is more at home playing in or near the paint, i.e., she likes to be a 4 rather than a 3. But she is undersized to be a regular 4 in the W. She will have to function more as a 3, which means that she will have to get her 3-point shot back up to about a 40% accuracy level, and she will have to accommodate teammates who occupy the paint as Azura often did last year.

Based strictly on size, Lou is naturally a 4 at the pro level, and Pheesa is a 3. Unfortunately, that is the opposite of both of their preferences, and may make the transition to the pro level more difficult for both of them.

So I think that they will both struggle to some extent, though for different reasons. Pheesa will need to work on her outside game, but she will earn minutes through opportunistic play in the paint, through her ability to fit into the team's overall offensive scheme whatever it is, and through her defense, which is now really quite good.

Lou obviously needs to get her 3-point accuracy back to where we all know it can be (above 45%, certainly), and she needs to continue to develop her rebounding skills, which are now more than adequate. Defending really quick guards will be a problem, but it is a problem that others with similar skill sets have surmounted. I think particularly of Katie Douglas, who had a 10+ year career in the WNBA and was an All Star and a defensive standout despite being no quicker on her feet than Lou. I would expect Lou to have (eventually) a similar career.

On the Maya-Pheesa comparison, I think the major difference in skills between them is Maya's 3-point shot -- and that is a huge difference in their offensive potential. Other than that, I'm not sure that there are too many things that Maya did that Pheesa cannot do approximately as well.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Pheesa. I am hoping that Lou gets immediately hired as a Graduate Assistant by Geno and begins her coaching career.

I think Lou will make lots of money in the Euro-Leagues before moving on to coaching- or getting in front of the camera for a big, successful career in sports punditry!

 

[diggerfoot]

The short answer? Depends on where they land. The context of team always matters. For example, does Collier play the 5 on Baylor or any other team with a legitimate big?

Samuelson is taller and has great hops (where does this narrative of she is not athletic come from?), yet Collier plays the 5. Some of the reason is Samuelson has better skills as a perimeter player, but it is also because of Collier's relentlessness and dependability, important characteristics for the post. There's no reason to think, given her height and hops, that Samuelson could not grab a rebound as often as Collier, but we know that is true.

We don't know for sure how well Collier could play out on the wing. She plays the 5, sometimes may get to be more like a stretch 4. In comparison, Charles (or Dolson) anchored the 5 during the Moore era. Though Moore played the 4, she did have abundant opportunities to show what she could do on the wing, unlike Collier.

If I had to guess, I suspect that Samuelson could end up a starter on a greater variety of teams but, if Collier lands in the right place, she could be more of a star. But that's a pure guess, better made after seeing where they land. It would be a better educated guess if, like with Moore, we had more evidence of what Collier could do as a wing at the college level.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Lots of negativity in the thread, surprisingly. I think both will do very well.

Pheesa is very athletic, durable, and energetic. She plays bigger than she is due to her long arms. Her jumper is good to about 15’. She needs to extend it.

Lou has an unusual combination of height and marksmanship. She is smart and has improved her defense and rebounding. I do worry about her durability, but time will tell.

 

[southofnorth]

I would think Collier purely because she's already played with the senior national team for a bit before being cut. If durability is a concern, definitely Collier over Samuelson, but I don't know how important that is since every mock draft has Brianna Turner going in the first round and she's been injury prone with her shoulder and her ACL tear. Either way, the best way to decide who the better pro is will be looking at the end of their (hopefully) long pro careers...and having them play a game of one-on-one before they retire.

 

[paisan]

Pheesa....I really like Lou but I fear that she will not hold up physically to the rough play in the pros.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Perhaps neither one will have a career worth fencing over. I doubt if the pros will be running as many plays for Lou as Geno does. I have my doubts about Lou's durability in the physical WNBA and foreign leagues. When the play gets rough Lou does not score much. Napheesa is small for a post in the WNBA. Her shot gets blocked because of the way she shoots it. Watch how a shorter male basketball player shoots in the midst of the trees. Imitate it. Both will need to increase their strength beyond what they did at UCONN. Lou would do well to watch a lot of DeWanna Bonner tape. The girl is a rail but gets it done. She has lots of moves Lou could adopt for herself. Her feistiness is also a positive in a physical league. Napheesa would do well to watch tape of Moore (6') operate under the basket. However, I think Phee's best role model for her game might be Tamika Catching' (6'2") game. Study her game in the pros.

 

[inthisopinion]

While we’re on the topic of delusional. You realize the last player at UConn to average a double-double was Lobo right?? You make it sound easy.

Collier will be taken because of her versatility, it’s constantly stated. She is not Maya Moore, I agree but to say she is limited is just false.

A lot easier playing 16 games in the AAC. When comparing players all things must be considered.

 

[HopJim]

A lot easier playing 16 games in the AAC. When comparing players all things must be considered.

Not sure why the negativity when some comment on potential areas of growth for Pheesa. Unlike M Moore, she is not a great jump/3 point shooter. Would this help her in pros-sure. Is there room for improvement-yes. Is she good enough now to be a high #1 choice-yes. Do all UConn fans love her-absolutely!

 

[bbballfan23]

We might be over-looking the fact that neither will be asked to be a Star right away unless drafted to a team like Indiana, where I think both would immediately be their best player. They don’t need the ball in their hands constantly to put up great numbers unlike other players in this draft.

Both can be all-stars if chosen in the right spot/system. They’ve proven they can play with other WNBA players and still be feature players. Even here on the BY, no one can decide who the “go-to” player is. Both have proven at some point they can be great #2s or #1s. I expect no different in the W.

 

[huskyd]

Just like anything else it depends on what team they are on. If I were to guess it will be KLS if she can stay healthy. Her game is more pro ready than Collier. Collier is more of a tweener but she would be awesome on the Mystics because of the two stretch 4s they have (and a pretty good PG). Seattle would be a good fit for Collier as well. .

Good answer, Also depends upon the kind of game they're asked to play. If Lou is seen as a pure shooter, she may be of less value than if her all-around game can be exploited. Another K, KML, proved to be of limited utility because her game is/was limited. 'Pheesa is already an all-around player, though I doubt she will ever be successful as a shooter from the outside. There's also the question of Lou's health. She may never be able to bang consistently against big women. Frankly, I don't have any idea who will prosper in the long run, but I wish them both well.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I believe that KLS will be an All-Star. Her shooting will keep her on the court every point in the game. Her height will be valued. And she can do it all.

She will never be taken out for a defensive player, or someone who can take the ball to the basket, because she can do that, too.

I predict she'll be a star!

 

[bbballfan23]

I believe that KLS will be an All-Star. Her shooting will keep her on the court every point in the game. Her height will be valued. And she can do it all.

She will never be taken out for a defensive player, or someone who can take the ball to the basket, because she can do that, too.

I predict she'll be a star!

I too think KLS can be an all-star. The only thing I’m worried about is durability. She also struggles to defend quicker guards but she can be hidden on defense. I would take Lou #1 to Vegas, as I think she fits their team needs the most (shooting). A’Ja, Plum, McBride & Lou would be deadly!

 

[Los24]

Everybody loves Lou, but because of her athleticism she often struggles to get her own shot against college players. How might she do against the pros?

She gets more attention and double teams too which opens up the floor. I think some of the comments about Pheesa are not accurate because she doesn't compare in a specific area to the best. Lou has created her own shot but she is not the best at it. She moves great without the ball and I think, and not a slight on her team members passing abilities outside Crystal, do not get her the ball quickly enough or at all when cutting or posting. That said, playing team ball is getting open shots not ISO ball.

 

[inthisopinion]

I too think KLS can be an all-star. The only thing I’m worried about is durability. She also struggles to defend quicker guards but she can be hidden on defense. I would take Lou #1 to Vegas, as I think she fits their team needs the most (shooting). A’Ja, Plum, McBride & Lou would be deadly!

She gets more attention and double teams too which opens up the floor. I think some of the comments about Pheesa are not accurate because she doesn't compare in a specific area to the best. Lou has created her own shot but she is not the best at it. She moves great without the ball and I think, and not a slight on her team members passing ability outside Crystal, do not get her the ball quickly enough or at all when cutting or posting. That said, playing team ball is getting open shots not ISO ball.

A good point about how much KLS gets doubled now which will not happen at the next level except at the end of close games when a 3 is needed. Again though, it depends on the view of the coach as to how he or she values all the things she can bring. That will determine how much she can develop as a pro player. Then there's how she will be viewed by the veteran players which will also have an effect on her pro career.

 

[Bigboote]

We're lucky to have a team where this is debatable. Each player has her pro-ready points.

Lou is a great shooter with the size to succeed in the W. She's improved immensely in the last couple of years in areas necessary to succeed at the next level -- rebounding, playing with her back to the basket. I think her quickness and defense may be suspect in the W.

Napheesa may be undersized, but she has great footwork, and she's so strong and athletic that I think she can play the 3 or 4 in the W. Don't forget that she came to UConn as a wing. Her freshman year she played wing quite a bit with Stewie and Tuck on the team. And she shot 43% from downtown her sophomore year. I have no doubt that she can regain the 3-point touch. But I still think she can play the 4 in the pros.

Both play with an incredible desire, something that can't be taught.

So I'm with the many others who have said that a lot depends on the fit for both players. I would love to see Collier play with Aja and Moriah in Vegas. Or with Stewie et al. in Seattle. Can you imagine being an opponent and breathing a (very brief) sigh of relief if Natasha Howard gets a couple of quick fouls just to have Pheesa come in?