Which Will Become the Better Pro? KLS? Or Pheesa?

[Centerstream]

Yes, but Maya played everywhere on the court: threes, under the basket, driving to the basket. She was everywhere and could score from anywhere.

Pheesa is an under the basket player. Really not much of a threat from anywhere else...

I beg to differ, Pheesa has an outside game but doesn't really need to use it on the current team because she is "needed" in the post.

 

[Hayven]

I would say KLS will be the better pro. Pheesa is undersized as 4 in the W. If she can become more mobile and shoot her 3 more quickly, it will be hard to keep her off the court.

 

[Ellie]

Napheesa Collier ... Knows how to slow the game down ... IMHO ... Just love her game ...

 

[ccwarrior]

Pheesa

 

[Carnac]

Yes, but Maya played everywhere on the court: threes, under the basket, driving to the basket. She was everywhere and could score from anywhere.

Pheesa is an under the basket player. Really not much of a threat from anywhere else...

Really?!? UConn (Geno) needed her to play close to the basket and help defend the paint. Her new team will have different needs and expectations of her. She will make the adjustments. You don’t appear to have much faith in Collier at the next level. Do you really think Collier is going to be a bust Professionally? SMH. Collier has a decent shooting percentage from beyond the arc, and is deadly from mid-range (5-12 feet out). Not all of her shots are layups.

Whether she does or not, her height will not be a hindrance or the reason. Maya’s height has never been a problem for her.

Let’s revisit this conversation in 5 years to see which one of us was right.

 

[Carnac]

@Scoop thanks as usual pulled the wheat from the chaff. Durable is an excellent word to describe Napheesa. I'm not on a speaking basis with anyone coaching or even near and W team so what their assessment of Collier is or maybe. It kinda kick me in the gut to think Napheesa may not be as appreciated as we here do. True, she'd get the energizer bunny tired.
I knew she played with the USA tryouts and got good grades and I guess by extention she played with WNBA players. The only proof of how she will play or how long in the W begins with the draft. I don't care about where she may end up. Many terrific W players were not numbers 1,2,3. Again Scoop, enjoyable read, thanks.

I too am surprised at some of the skepticism some posters are harboring. I guess they’re watching a different Napheesa Collier than I am. There is no doubt in my mind that Collier will shine professionally in the W and overseas for a long time.

 

[Woof 101]

This would be a great topic to discuss starting on April 8th..... JMHO .....

 

[inthisopinion]

Another delusional position. Strother didn't do anything as well as KLS. KLS can & does play inside or outside and if she played up front all the time she certainly would average a double double. However, she is a victim of her versatility which allows for her to play well anywhere on the floor. Thus, having her game contribute in more ways than any other current player but not allowing her to pile up specific stats.

 

[inthisopinion]

Now some of you people are actually comparing Collier to the greatest college player of all time. Collier doesn't do anything as well as Maya did. Maya played all over the floor at the highest level. I don't think anyone can ever accuse Collier of that. Look, Collier does what she does very well but that what is limited and specialized. Maybe in the right situation she can transfer that to the next level but let's not get ridiculous with comparisons.

 

[bbballfan23]

Another delusional position. Strother didn't do anything as well as KLS. KLS can & does play inside or outside and if she played up front all the time she certainly would average a double double. However, she is a victim of her versatility which allows for her to play well anywhere on the floor. Thus, having her game contribute in more ways than any other current player but not allowing her to pile up specific stats.

While we’re on the topic of delusional. You realize the last player at UConn to average a double-double was Lobo right?? You make it sound easy.

Now some of you people are actually comparing Collier to the greatest college player of all time. Collier doesn't do anything as well as Maya did. Maya played all over the floor at the highest level. I don't think anyone can ever accuse Collier of that. Look, Collier does what she does very well but that what is limited and specialized. Maybe in the right situation she can transfer that to the next level but let's not get ridiculous with comparisons.

Collier will be taken because of her versatility, it’s constantly stated. She is not Maya Moore, I agree but to say she is limited is just false.

 

[ccwarrior]

Everybody loves Lou, but because of her athleticism she often struggles to get her own shot against college players. How might she do against the pros?

 

[iri10]

They both have their own strengths, so I think (early on at least) it depends on how compatible their WNBA team is with their specific skillset.

Off topic: Megan Walker's freshman-sophomore performance clearly lags the freshman-sophomore performance of both Collier and Sameulson. But barring injuries I think her pro career may well be just as good as those two. Possibly better than one or both of them. Her potential skills and body are very suitable for WNBA wing duty, IMO.

 

[ricky]

Yes, but Maya played everywhere on the court: threes, under the basket, driving to the basket. She was everywhere and could score from anywhere.

Pheesa is an under the basket player. Really not much of a threat from anywhere else...

Collier is forced to play as a center because no one else on the team is a badass down there. This won't be her role under trader Bill. He will use her offensive mastery in many other ways. Why can't Lou finger roll. She always goes into a jump shot posture when she drives to the rim and gets packed every time. That won't work in the W.

 

[Carnac]

Now some of you people are actually comparing Collier to the greatest college player of all time. Collier doesn't do anything as well as Maya did. Maya played all over the floor at the highest level. I don't think anyone can ever accuse Collier of that. Look, Collier does what she does very well but that what is limited and specialized. Maybe in the right situation she can transfer that to the next level but let's not get ridiculous with comparisons.

My comparison of Collier to Maya Moore was not ridiculous. If you think it is, you're completely missing my point and the context of the comparison. I was debating Fairfield on whether Collier's height was going to hinder her as he suggested it would. I specifically used Maya in comparison because of her success and longevity in professional basketball. Maya is listed as 6'0" tall, Collier is listed at 6'1" tall. THAT was the only comparison between the two I was attempting to make, THEIR HEIGHT!! The comparison DID NOT go beyond that. Nowhere in my narrative did I suggest that Collier was, could or would be as good/great as Maya. This was my comparison to Maya: "I appreciate your take on Collier.......BUT, I remind you that Maya Moore is only 6'0". I rest my case." I don't know where you're getting all of the comparisons you referrer to from my reference. Now, if you want to debate Maya's height, have at it.

inthisopinion, my handle is "Scoop" If you want to challenge or rebut something I write, please refer to me as Scoop, not "some of you people". That phrase suggests an air of arrogance, and superiority over the "some of you people" you refer to.

I'm the one that first made the comparison. I'm ALWAYS courteous to the posters that I respond to by using their correct handle. I don't demean anyone, it's not my style. Everyone has an opinion, and is welcome to it and to express it. I also don't call other poster's comments or opinions ridiculous or delusional (a reference you used in response to another poster's comments). Who am I to decide if someone take is ridiculous or not if I don't agree with it? I'm not a keeper of the Boneyard, just a visitor. I would appreciate that same courtesy. Thanks.

 

[Carnac]

Recalling Lawson's comments during, I think, the South Carolina game when she mentioned that you couldn't tell the difference between the pro players and Collier when she worked out with them last summer. For me - it's Pheesa.

Lawson is a coach on the women's USA Olympic BB team. The woman knows basketball!! She played 4 years for Pat Summit and 12 years in the WNBA. I respect Lawson's opinion and observations. She was there, I was not.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Not diminishing Pheesa by any means. But her scoring appears more dependent on Coach Geno's style of play, which uses constant motion to get her free underneath. With a team with a more traditional coach, will she get the motion offense to get her free shots underneath?

Not sure...

thats why Geno loves her, she adapted to what he wanted quickly. Unlike others (maybe, Walker) who were stuck doing what they do (from their high school day) and Geno sat them in the doghouse

 

[Husky fanatic]

Pheesa

 

[HopJim]

We don't know enough to answer the question. Pheesa gets most of her points today on layups from fast breaks or pick and roles. With pro size and speed, she is not likely to be able to do this next year and will have to develop an out side game. Can she? Jury's out.

 

[meyers7]

Lou is way tougher than some of the posters above claim. She may appear fragile because she is always smiling and having a good time - but I know I wouldn't have played a full half on a broken foot like she did her freshman season!

In this instance fragile and tough are not opposites. One can be fragile and tough. Tough means you play through injuries/sickness/being bumped and held/dishing out as well as you get. Fragile means you have a lot of injuries.

 

[JoePgh]

I have some reluctance to re-post what I said in another thread, but since it is more relevant to this thread than to the other one anyway, let me do that. I said:

What [Pheesa]] seems to be saying is that she is more at home playing in or near the paint, i.e., she likes to be a 4 rather than a 3. But she is undersized to be a regular 4 in the W. She will have to function more as a 3, which means that she will have to get her 3-point shot back up to about a 40% accuracy level, and she will have to accommodate teammates who occupy the paint as Azura often did last year.

Based strictly on size, Lou is naturally a 4 at the pro level, and Pheesa is a 3. Unfortunately, that is the opposite of both of their preferences, and may make the transition to the pro level more difficult for both of them.

So I think that they will both struggle to some extent, though for different reasons. Pheesa will need to work on her outside game, but she will earn minutes through opportunistic play in the paint, through her ability to fit into the team's overall offensive scheme whatever it is, and through her defense, which is now really quite good.

Lou obviously needs to get her 3-point accuracy back to where we all know it can be (above 45%, certainly), and she needs to continue to develop her rebounding skills, which are now more than adequate. Defending really quick guards will be a problem, but it is a problem that others with similar skill sets have surmounted. I think particularly of Katie Douglas, who had a 10+ year career in the WNBA and was an All Star and a defensive standout despite being no quicker on her feet than Lou. I would expect Lou to have (eventually) a similar career.

On the Maya-Pheesa comparison, I think the major difference in skills between them is Maya's 3-point shot -- and that is a huge difference in their offensive potential. Other than that, I'm not sure that there are too many things that Maya did that Pheesa cannot do approximately as well.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Pheesa. I am hoping that Lou gets immediately hired as a Graduate Assistant by Geno and begins her coaching career.

I think Lou will make lots of money in the Euro-Leagues before moving on to coaching- or getting in front of the camera for a big, successful career in sports punditry!

 

[diggerfoot]

The short answer? Depends on where they land. The context of team always matters. For example, does Collier play the 5 on Baylor or any other team with a legitimate big?

Samuelson is taller and has great hops (where does this narrative of she is not athletic come from?), yet Collier plays the 5. Some of the reason is Samuelson has better skills as a perimeter player, but it is also because of Collier's relentlessness and dependability, important characteristics for the post. There's no reason to think, given her height and hops, that Samuelson could not grab a rebound as often as Collier, but we know that is true.

We don't know for sure how well Collier could play out on the wing. She plays the 5, sometimes may get to be more like a stretch 4. In comparison, Charles (or Dolson) anchored the 5 during the Moore era. Though Moore played the 4, she did have abundant opportunities to show what she could do on the wing, unlike Collier.

If I had to guess, I suspect that Samuelson could end up a starter on a greater variety of teams but, if Collier lands in the right place, she could be more of a star. But that's a pure guess, better made after seeing where they land. It would be a better educated guess if, like with Moore, we had more evidence of what Collier could do as a wing at the college level.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Lots of negativity in the thread, surprisingly. I think both will do very well.

Pheesa is very athletic, durable, and energetic. She plays bigger than she is due to her long arms. Her jumper is good to about 15’. She needs to extend it.

Lou has an unusual combination of height and marksmanship. She is smart and has improved her defense and rebounding. I do worry about her durability, but time will tell.

 

[southofnorth]

I would think Collier purely because she's already played with the senior national team for a bit before being cut. If durability is a concern, definitely Collier over Samuelson, but I don't know how important that is since every mock draft has Brianna Turner going in the first round and she's been injury prone with her shoulder and her ACL tear. Either way, the best way to decide who the better pro is will be looking at the end of their (hopefully) long pro careers...and having them play a game of one-on-one before they retire.

 

[paisan]

Pheesa....I really like Lou but I fear that she will not hold up physically to the rough play in the pros.