Which Final Four team was the best?

[SubbaBub]

I’m not sure asking Boone to chase Karaban off screens on the perimeter is a great plan and with the size advantage the ‘24 team has over ‘99, you can afford to have one guy get out-rebounded.

As far as style, that’s a huge factor. ‘24 would rain threes on these earlier teams and overall take much higher value shots. Can’t not factor that it, though I agree it’s what makes these discussions a bit difficult. Knowing what we know now, ‘24 is going to run a much better offense than ‘99 or ‘04.

AK is hot and cold. If he's hot it's a problem but if you but CV on him, not so much. Now ask AK to guard Kevin Freeman or Josh Boone.

Josh has to hope AK is missing there's and AK has to hope Josh misses layups. Both happened regularly. AK isn't driving on either, he's too slow. Oak and Jake block almost all of those. Castle and Cam can probably beat their guys to a spot, but we never saw that used a lot as the main offense so we can conclude it helps offset the other mismatches. They also lose most of Cam and Newtons rebounding as Free, Boone, Oak, and Jake aren't getting beat by guards on the boards.

 

[SubbaBub]

I love Rashad but that's not a wash, Cam was a lot better than him. Cam was basically the best offensive player in the country. He was 5th in the country in three point shooting percentage, he shot 91% ft's, 8th in assist to turnovers, 2nd in Kenpom offensive efficiency.

Cam/Rash is probably 24s best matchup as Rash isn'ta known defender. Can you run that enough to offset losing in the other 3-4 spots? Does Cam really outscored Rash by all that much in that match up? I don't think so.

Does Cam getting close enough against team not playing 4 out? He'd need to hit threes off screens. He can, they all can but that is their problem that's all they have against two elite front courts. These are not a one man show like Purdue or Illinois.

These are also great teams with guys who know their jobs, run by a HoF coach. They played when the BE was the BE and not some glorified CYO league.

If we are asking which team causes more unsolvable problems for the other, I stand by my assessment.

 

[superjohn]

This makes zero sense. Talent is no longer concentrated in top schools and leagues. You think Bulter, SDSU, FAU happen in 2004 or 2009? George Mason was earth shattering in 2006 (against a soft entitled UConn team). Now it's practically an annual event. Maybe NIL shoves no names off the stage, we'll see.

Hilton, who mentioned him? He was a bench player in 04. Gordon was the first guard off the board after Dwight Howard and Okafor. Centers aren't as valuable today which make the DC argument even weaker.

But this isn't about draft position. The older teams played better competition, period. The older teams were tougher and stronger. The newer teams shoot 3s better and from more people but they also don't dribble/drive, rebound or defend as well.

If you don't think Moore/Brown can handle Newton or Spencer or that Rash and KEA can score with them then you either didn't watch them play or you're just deluding yourself.

Rip should be in the HoF, he scored on people way better than Castle in college and the NBA. Free and Boone are mismatches for AK unless he's hitting from deep, which he doesn't always do. And just stop with the centers, Jake was way stronger and just as big as DC. He can play him straight up. Oak is 4inches shorter and might need a double from Boone/Armstrong to help. If 24 needs DC to score to win, then they aren't winning.

24 is relying on beating Rip, KEA, Anderson and Gordon on defense by screening at the 3pt line and making a good percentage. It's certainly possible for one game but just isn't the most likely outcome.

They were all dominating champs, all 6. They all blew through the tournament. 6 games in a row. It's a nice history problem to have, but 2004 had it all including a bench that beats the other 5 benches, 2023 being the closest.

What happens when Oak gets to go against Johnson for 15 minutes a game? How about Brown or KEA against Diarra? Boone, Freeman, Rip, CV vs Stewart or Ross or even AK?

2024 beat down who was in front of them. Nobody is matching a 30-0 run against a Big Ten Champ. Take nothing away from the only UConn back to back champs. If I gave points for playing as a team and completeness, they get the most but on the court 2004 wins, 99 would be fairly even and depend on who's hot but 2024 has no one even close to Rip.

This makes no sense, you might have had an argument before the transfer portal/immediate transfers playing/5th and 6th year Covid players etc.

Our starting backcourt in 2024 was two 5th year seniors, they were the best backcourt in the country by far. The 2024 team's starting 5 and top 8 both had more college basketball experience than 2004.

I don't know why you're asking what happens when Taliek goes against Diarra the backup point guard. The question should be what happens with Taliek against the starter Newton. Tristen is a much better player than Taliek. 2004 didn't even have a backup point guard once Marcus Williams was ruled ineligible second semester.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

AK is hot and cold. If he's hot it's a problem but if you but CV on him, not so much. Now ask AK to guard Kevin Freeman or Josh Boone.

Josh has to hope AK is missing there's and AK has to hope Josh misses layups. Both happened regularly. AK isn't driving on either, he's too slow. Oak and Jake block almost all of those. Castle and Cam can probably beat their guys to a spot, but we never saw that used a lot as the main offense so we can conclude it helps offset the other mismatches. They also lose most of Cam and Newtons rebounding as Free, Boone, Oak, and Jake aren't getting beat by guards on the boards.

I think you’re assuming that ‘99/‘04 are going to play their game defensively, but they’re not. They’re going to have to adjust to the spacing and actions of ‘24 and it would be a huge difference. It’s not a knock on them, it’s just a vastly different style than we ever saw them have to play against.

And the idea that ‘24 loses the benefits of guards rebounding is a bit silly to me. Okafor and Jake are still going to be having to deal with Clingan and will be giving up size. They’re not going to have free rein to grab any board they want. ‘99 especially would have a challenge with the guards. That back court went 5’10, 6’2 and would have to deal with 6’5, 6’4.

 

[Scottzer]

I’m not sure asking Boone to chase Karaban off screens on the perimeter is a great plan and with the size advantage the ‘24 team has over ‘99, you can afford to have one guy get out-rebounded.

As far as style, that’s a huge factor. ‘24 would rain threes on these earlier teams and overall take much higher value shots. Can’t not factor that it, though I agree it’s what makes these discussions a bit difficult. Knowing what we know now, ‘24 is going to run a much better offense than ‘99 or ‘04.

With you on this. Maybe play Charlie on AK and run Boone as Emeka’s backup?

Do we go with the 35 second shot clock and more physicality allowed, or a 30 second clock and current officiating?

24 would benefit from the extra time, but, I think they would find it harder to run their sets in more physical 04 era.

A lot of you guys would watch the open practices - I never have. How did Donovan match up with Adama in practice? I felt like Emeka had similar footwork to Adama, but a ton more athleticism. Who gets in foul trouble first, DC or EO? In my mind, that is what the game between the two would come down to.

The funny thing to me is that Hutley’s teams look a bit more like coach K teams. And yes, they were great. But, Calhoun figured them out in time.

I’m not dying on a hill with one side or the other between those two teams. But, I just don’t see it clearly one way or the other.

 

[3rdbass]

Stef Castle is a great example of a one-and-done-and-natty and becoming NBA ROY is a the best selling job we could do for a SG or wing. No one can touch us.

Or PG. Steph is all those positions embodied in one basketball player.

 

[metsfan2323]

I love Rashad but that's not a wash, Cam was a lot better than him. Cam was basically the best offensive player in the country. He was 5th in the country in three point shooting percentage, he shot 91% ft's, 8th in assist to turnovers, 2nd in Kenpom offensive efficiency.

Yup, Newton was a legit first team All American and he was also the 3rd best player on last year's team IMO and our 4th best player just won Rookie of the Year. The 2024 team was also the talk of the basketball world with everyone trying to figure out how to copy our offense. Two of our three losses were because of injuries. The 2024 team stands alone, Best Ever.

 

[Spaceman213J]

I love Rashad but that's not a wash, Cam was a lot better than him. Cam was basically the best offensive player in the country. He was 5th in the country in three point shooting percentage, he shot 91% ft's, 8th in assist to turnovers, 2nd in Kenpom offensive efficiency.

I actually agree. I was trying to a little diplomatic and I think one of the guys that constantly gets a little forgotten on this board by some, not all, but by some is Tristan Newton. He showed out in both title games.
I also don't get why some thing Okafor or especially Thabeet would eat Clingan up. Not that you are arguing this, but I don't feel like putting up to different posts right now. Edey got his points, but he had to work and was gassed and worn down. Thabeet could get pushed around by a big with size like Blair. I'm not saying DC is going on an offensive explosion, but Thabeet wouldn't do much against DC either.

 

[Dibbie]

Voted ‘04. I understand the ‘24 team thought, but surprised by the margin. Maybe a little recency bias

 

[SubbaBub]

DC would foul out against Oak fairly quickly evenas he wouldbe effective defending him.. Thabeet would neutralize DC whose scoring is way more important to his team than Thabeets.

As for Newton, the earlier champs successfully defended better backcourts than 24.

Once again, this is not to say 24 isn't an all time team. We're debating Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle here.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

DC would foul out against Oak fairly quickly evenas he wouldbe effective defending him.. Thabeet would neutralize DC whose scoring is way more important to his team than Thabeets.

You cannot possibly be calling other people delusional while firing off takes like this. Okafar was a 6-9 post player who didn't leave the paint. And I loved him but it's not like he had Adama's footwork or post moves. What are we even talking about here?

By the way Thabeet averaged marginally more ppg in '09 than Clingan did in '24. I can't even believe we're doing this exercise. Even at 7 ppg as a freshman Clingan was as impactful as any big we've ever had.

 

[superjohn]

You cannot possibly be calling other people delusional while firing off takes like this. Okafar was a 6-9 post player who didn't leave the paint. And I loved him but it's not like he had Adama's footwork or post moves. What are we even talking about here?

By the way Thabeet averaged marginally more ppg in '09 than Clingan did in '24. I can't even believe we're doing this exercise. Even at 7 ppg as a freshman Clingan was as impactful as any big we've ever had.

Okafor was awesome and scored a lot but he was a bit mechanical. As you say he didn't leave the paint. He was good at making himself available and scored on a little hook shot, put backs, and off of feeds from Taliek and big to big interior passing. The size difference is enormous.

I also don't get why he thinks Clingan's scoring was way more important to his team than Thabeet's was.

 

[CTHSHoops]

i think the 99 team is the most underrated team and beat a Duke that is viewed as one of college basketballs greatest team ever. Ill stick with the 99 team personally.

The 99 was special for me, particularly since it was the first and I was able to attend. The team's only 2 losses were at home to Syracuse and Miami when they had injuries. The win at Stanford was special. The 99 Duke was the highest rated Kenpom.com team.

 

[willie99]

You cannot possibly be calling other people delusional while firing off takes like this. Okafar was a 6-9 post player who didn't leave the paint. And I loved him but it's not like he had Adama's footwork or post moves. What are we even talking about here?

By the way Thabeet averaged marginally more ppg in '09 than Clingan did in '24. I can't even believe we're doing this exercise. Even at 7 ppg as a freshman Clingan was as impactful as any big we've ever had.

Are you adversely comparing Meka to Sanogo?

Now that's mind-blowin. I wish Sanogo was the 2nd pick in the NBA draft, and I hope he makes 10's of millions of dollars too. My guess is he wishes for the same

Adama, I love you man. You deserve a chance and I think your day will come

Meka, thank you for everything and invest your money wisely

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Are you adversely comparing Meka to Sanogo?

Now that's mind-blowin. I wish Sanogo was the 2nd pick in the NBA draft, and I hope he makes 10's of millions of dollars too. My guess is he wishes for the same

Adama, I love you man. You deserve a chance and I think your day will come

Meka, thank you for everything and invest your money wisely

Hilton Armstrong was a lottery pick. It's amazing to me you guys think this "this guy was drafted # __ 20 years ago" arguments enhance your credibility. Where would Okafor have been drafted in Adama's draft. Not second. God this is goofy.

Also, Sanogo has better post moves than Okafor, which is the point I was making. And it's not really debatable. Unfortunately for him he played in an era where undersized, earth-bound post players aren't especially valuable in the NBA.

This stuff isn't rocket surgery, guys.

 

[Tenspro2002]

2024 reached the Final Four in part thanks to a 30-0 run against the #1 offense in the country. Come on, people.

 

[jleves]

Not for nothing, but the statistics on that poll are super messed up. Maybe because multiple votes are allowed (which doesn't make sense - there can only be one best - who chose more than 1?).

It says total votes are 183, but I count 216 (at this time).

99: 8%
04: 16%
09: 0%
11: 2%
14: 2%
23: 4%
24: 68%

 

[willie99]

That's funny stuff

You actually know where guys would be drafted in different eras, that's super special.

Your point about Armstrong is at least palatable. You're arguments about Meka and Sanogo are laughable and discredits anything else you might think.

2004 >>>>>>>>>>>>>2024, it's not rocket science. So there, take that

Next week, Cam over MSG and he would have been a lottery pick in 2004

 

[SubbaBub]

Sigh. Oak was the national DPOY and beat the guy who won the same award the next two years and his team that had 6 NBA players on it. I'm pretty sure he's going to match up with the guy who gave up 37 and spent 10 minutes on the bench against the only real center he played.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

That's funny stuff

You actually know where guys would be drafted in different eras, that's super special.

Your point about Armstrong is at least palatable. You're arguments about Meka and Sanogo are laughable and discredits anything else you might think.

2004 >>>>>>>>>>>>>2024, it's not rocket science. So there, take that

Next week, Cam over MSG and he would have been a lottery pick in 2004

It’s wild that you’re posting stuff like this and lecturing people. It’s genuinely crazy. I appreciate your fandom boss but this is legitimacy too stupid to respond to.

 

[caw]

In no world is Ricky a Shooting Guard.

Question was FF teams. JD was hurt that matters.

As for the 2024/2004/1999 question, arguments can be made for all being the best but if they all played. No one is beating Emeka, Gordon and Boone with Anderson and Brown supporting cast.

Rip was undefendable by guys way better at defending than any of our other teams could throw at him including freshman Castle. The 24 team doesn't rebound the same against either 99 or 04 with Free and Boone. And Voskhul could definitely defend Clingan as he defended better centers.

All three are good, but if you line up all 6 champs 2004 stands out with 99 slightly ahead of 24 but still close behind. Both earlier teams were also very dominant during the regular season with multiple weeks at #1. 2004 only really lost when Okafor was hurt.

We will disagree on Ricky, because KEA was the PG and leader of the offense hands down. RM also defended the 2 a lot.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

2004 only really lost when Okafor was hurt.

This is revisionist history. They got pumped at home by unranked providence. Emeka was the leading scorer. They lost to unranked Notre Dame. Emeka was the leading scorer. They lost to a barely ranked Syracuse. Emeka played 30+ minutes and scored 2 points.

It was a great team. It was not as historically dominant as 2024. You can’t just make stuff up to support your argument.

 

[Jkiller]

I guess another interesting thought experiment is, which team had a better coaching staff:

99: Calhoun, Moore, Hobbs, Lietao
04: Calhoun, Blaney, Moore, Clyde Vaughan
09: Calhoun, Blaney, Patrick Sellers, LaFleur
11: Calhoun, Blaney, Ollie, LaFleur
14: Ollie, Hobbs, Miller, Moore
23: Hurley, Kimani, Moore, Murray
24: Hurley, Kimani, Moore, Murray

 

[willie99]

I guess another interesting thought experiment is, which team had a better coaching staff:

99: Calhoun, Moore, Hobbs, Lietao
04: Calhoun, Blaney, Moore, Clyde Vaughan
09: Calhoun, Blaney, Patrick Sellers, LaFleur
11: Calhoun, Blaney, Ollie, LaFleur
14: Ollie, Hobbs, Miller, Moore
23: Hurley, Kimani, Moore, Murray
24: Hurley, Kimani, Moore, Murray

That's a tad bit harder

 

[Mr. French]

I’m just excited for when Cam Spencer becomes the single greatest player in NCAA history.

 

[Waquoit]

The win at Stanford was special.

That's one of the great forgotten games. They were ranked 4th and UConn beat them without Rip.

 

[SubbaBub]

This is revisionist history. They got pumped at home by unranked providence. Emeka was the leading scorer. They lost to unranked Notre Dame. Emeka was the leading scorer. They lost to a barely ranked Syracuse. Emeka played 30+ minutes and scored 2 points.

It was a great team. It was not as historically dominant as 2024. You can’t just make stuff up to support your argument.

24 isn't offering anything other than opinion.

04 had three NBA all-rookie first team players, including the rookie of the year as well as a bunch of 1st rounders.

Bet most people forgot that.

 

[Waquoit]

24 isn't offering anything other than opinion.

04 had three NBA all-rookie first team players, including the rookie of the year as well as a bunch of 1st rounders.

Bet most people forgot that.

Good start. true. But that class was lacking in staying power. Ben disappeared right after signing his 2nd contract. Emeka was always hurt and the other guys went nowhere.

 

[husky8273]

why do the voting percentages total to 117%?

 

[HooperScooper]

why do the voting percentages total to 117%?

On the bottom of the the poll:
Multiple votes are allowed.