Where UConn's Starting Lineup is Heading

[pk1234]

I can't help but think that people see Azzi and Allie as such elite shooters coming out of HS it gives them some misconceptions about their defense. Both are perfectly competent defenders

 

[hoophuskee]

I disagree, HH. Kaitlyn played for Carla for 4 years, a coach that demanded defensive excellence, the same defense she learned from Geno.

On the court, Chen says that her biggest adjustment from high school to Princeton was perfecting Coach Berube’s suffocating defensive scheme. As a player that is known for her quick transition offense and explosive ball-handling skills, Princeton’s system demanded Chen to contribute on the defensive end as well.

“We [at Princeton] pride ourselves on our defense,” Chen continued. “So, it takes a lot of time and effort and focus during practices.”

As a result, Chen is playing the best defense of her collegiate career, averaging 1.2 steals per game and fitting seamlessly into the well-oiled Princeton defensive machine.

Kaitlyn Chen: The offensive leader of a defensive team

The 2022–23 Ivy League Player of the Year reflects on her rise as women’s basketball top offensive player, the path that led her to the Orange Bubble, and her hopes for the Tigers’ postseason dreams — and the fifth year that lies beyond.

www.dailyprincetonian.com

As for Allie, she might surprise you.

"[Allie] was so intense on the defense end and there were many times where they put her out there for that very reason," Braunel said. "Even in the gold medal match, with three, four minutes left and a 1-point game, they trusted her to put her on the court − the youngest kid on the team. That says a lot. So we're super proud of her and thrilled all of the hard work paid off."

'We're super proud of her': Neenah's Allie Ziebell helps Team USA win gold at U19 FIBA Women's World Cup

Neenah standout helped Team USA U19 national team claim gold with 69-66 win over Spain in Madrid.

www.postcrescent.com

Context of my post is probably different than how you interpreted it. IMO a player like Paige coming out of h/s was also "not known for her defense." I didn't say they were poor or subpar. But Paige coming out was known for her offensive excellence. Azzi her shooting was considered 2nd-tonone. That’s what she was :known for." She was considered beyond great - "shooting." . Paige's Defense is now excellent but I recall even her quotes when she came to UCONN she would say things about her offense in particular her passing stating "nobody passes better than me." Allie is known for her 3pt shooting.

Nowhere am I indicating the 3 players I responded to are not good defenders it's just that their offenses' overshadow their defenses. When we hear Geno and CD talk about Azzi, they marvel her shooting skills. That was the intent of my post.

***No way did I mean is criticize their defense. It’s their offense though they were "most" known for. Chen's scoring and Allie's 3pt shot are the features. It's one thing to be "inetense" as Allie is on defnese but her 3pt shoting is what we are potneially in awe of to a degree is similar to my point.

 

[hoophuskee]

Azzi is not known for her defense because she's known for something else and it distracts us from noticing her defense. Azzi is a fine defender -- maybe not Nika-in-your-face on ball defense, but she does not make a lot of mistakes, and she can be at the front of the full court press as we saw against Texas and NC State two years ago. She's a focused, high-IQ player who already understands Geno's schemes.

Something similar can be said of Kaitlyn, who led the press for Carla for the last 3 years. She's learning a new system, so we should expect a few lapses, but those will disappear soon enough.

Allie was a very good defender in high school. There used to be a few videos of games from her senior year -- not just highlights -- and she was the anchor of that team's defense, more so than their offense. It was a small team with only one other player her size and a bunch of speedy little guards who knew how to score. She is still learning Geno's defense, and so we shouldn't be surprised by a few mistakes. The other thing visible in those videos is her leadership. The rest of the team looked to her to get the tough basket and to rally the defense. This is the same thing Ash experienced in high school, and Paige too, and Nika showed it too, and Evina too. If the anchor player plays good aggressive defense the rest of the team rallies.

The other player who knows how to energize a team with her defense is Morgan. She's also still learning Geno's defense, but her energy and commitment is really obvious. And if anyone watches her high school games from last year, they'll see an intense leader of a great team -- not a naturally great scorer, but a scrappy kid who never gives up. If Morgan had arrived last season instead of Ash, I have little doubt we'd be talking about her role on the team in the same way right now. Her trajectory may be slightly more gradual merely because she won't get as many minutes as Ash did last season. But the end point is probably the same -- leading the team for a season or two. Allie may not have the same intense energy Morgan has, but she will be great soon enough.

As for Kaitlyn's turnovers, she makes more than I'd like for the moment, and aside from picking up her dribble too soon I can think of one particular mistake from the closing minutes against USF that is probably typical. She drove and kicked a pass to Allie in the corner. But the pass wasn't well prepared and Allie wasn't really open to shoot, so she passed it back to the top. A moment later, Kaitlyn made a similar drive and got trapped by a double team in the lane and tossed up a desperation shot that missed. What she didn't see but should have was Allie now wide open in the same spot. This was a mistake and tantamount to a turnover. I'm confident those mistakes will not recur as Kaitlyn gains more familiarity with the read and react style Geno teaches. She, herself, said in a presser that Carla's offense involved more plays and she was still finding her way here. At Princeton her offense was brilliant, but in a different system. It will shine again once she gets comfortable. You can already see hints of it with her midrange jump shot, which is almost as automatic as Ash's

As I posted to Nan, my post was not meant to slam the defense of any of our players. I can't tell you the respect I have for all of these 3 players. In regard to Azzi (and Chen and Allie) I agree her Offense overshadows her defense. That was sort of my point. Azzi may have come in lauded as one of the best shooters in history. If not that level near it. When you have that accolade it's hard to be also known for your defense.

I guess I took the poster's post that I replied to as "literal." Was not my point to disparge the Defense. But the Offense for example with Azzi, I'm in awe of her potential on Offense.

 

[Conndog]

I think KK has to get some defensive minutes when opponent is Notre Dame with super quick Hidalgo or another team with a fast guard like that

 

[BBallF]

You make a good point. Will it belong to the 4 of them at that point, then? All of them will contribute to the team spirit, but somehow I suspect Jana’s big heart and Sarah’s quiet confidence and Morgan’s intensity will be more foundational than Ash’s relentlessness. But who am I to exclude anyone from this tremendous group? I’ve been following Ash since high school and have a pretty good idea what she means to a team.

And lest the lawyers or the accountants demand to know how I can say anything about the character of these young women, I’ll share this anecdote. In her junior year, in the state championship, Ash had the ball and a chance to win the game, and she passed it to a less celebrated teammate and let her score the winning basket. She’d carried the team all season, but she let a teammate have some of the glory. Kinda reminds me of Paige passing to KK at the end of the Syracuse game.

Yes, I love Ash. However, of the players left 2 years from now, excluding any new recruits, the player with the most genial, outward, expressive, and commanding persona to me is the Husky Pyramid. I think Ash will be the star and probably BE POY, but I see Jana as the one doing the talking in the huddles and being at least a co-leader. The passion she brings to the team is unbridled.

Geno is a "decent" judge of basketball talent and what he has said about her is not for confidence building purposes only, if at all. She made the entire bench and the entire crowd nuts after she had that driving score and was fouled. I also see her talking to the other players in an instructive way. That takes a lot of confidence.

I think she is going to be a lot better than you and I are thinking right now. Her father is apparently a very well respected and talented coach and it shows in her fundamentally sound play. Just watch her footwork and you say to yourself "Someone taught her to play the right way". Friday will be a real good barometer for her because it will be against the best talent and size she has faced here. If she passes that test, hold on. I sincerely believe that you will see 20+ points games from her this year if she gets the minutes.

 

[Bone Dog]

As I posted to Nan, my post was not meant to slam the defense of any of our players. I can't tell you the respect I have for all of these 3 players. In regard to Azzi (and Chen and Allie) I agree her Offense overshadows her defense. That was sort of my point. Azzi may have come in lauded as one of the best shooters in history. If not that level near it. When you have that accolade it's hard to be also known for your defense.

I guess I took the poster's post that I replied to as "literal." Was not my point to disparge the Defense. But the Offense for example with Azzi, I'm in awe of her potential on Offense.

Don’t worry. I understood you. I was hamhandedly trying to underline your meaning.

 

[BBallF]

As I posted to Nan, my post was not meant to slam the defense of any of our players. I can't tell you the respect I have for all of these 3 players. In regard to Azzi (and Chen and Allie) I agree her Offense overshadows her defense. That was sort of my point. Azzi may have come in lauded as one of the best shooters in history. If not that level near it. When you have that accolade it's hard to be also known for your defense.

I guess I took the poster's post that I replied to as "literal." Was not my point to disparge the Defense. But the Offense for example with Azzi, I'm in awe of her potential on Offense.

I also think that many BYers don't remember how great an all around player Azzi is. It's easy to focus, as you said, on the offensive game when it is so overwhelmingly remarkable. Just look at Paige. Do fans ordinarily say what a great defensive player she is? Nope. They look at the offense because it is actually stunning. What did she do last year when playing the 4 position? Defense was unreal and I think she is one of the best defenders the program has ever had. I love watching her live. Her anticipation on defense is unlike any I can recall. Even if Azzi were the best defender iin the league, it would still be about that incredible range , accuracy, lightning release and versatile moves. So I totally get the point which is well taken.

 

[Zonepress]

Fewer minutes means faster pace. With 14 talented players, I could very easily see 11 of them playing in the NCAA tournament, with three of them at the five (15 fouls). The biggest question, IMO, is which three won’t play. I’m not sure that will be answered until March.

I would be beyond shocked in a tournament
Game that is competitive /close if more than 8
Players players play Paige and SS
Will play close to 40 minutes Jae and Ice will split time At center Playing 7 players for the additional 2 spots is not realistic
This whole idea of playing so many players makes no sense to me (and yes, South Carolina played nine players last year but Imho that was primarily because there’s no difference in ability between starters in those coming off the bench)
Right now, from what I’ve seen there are seven players, that you could consider starters(the starters plus JAE and Kk)
After that, there is a noticeable fall off,in the quality of the play and that’s not to say that they aren’t very good players, but I don’t think there is good as the top seven(Morgan C.could be the exception )
If AZ returns to form that would make i
8
There will be plenty of minutes in the 20+ games on the schedule that won’t be competitive for the whole roster to get a good deal of playing time
When UConn has a full and healthy roster, of .14 very good players it’s very difficult to get playing time

 

[Bone Dog]

of the players left 2 years from now, excluding any new recruits, the player with the most genial, outward, expressive, and commanding persona to me is the Husky Pyramid. I think Ash will be the star and probably BE POY, but I see Jana as the one doing the talking in the huddles and being at least a co-leader.

Good observation! This is often the sign of who is the heart of the team. It was always Nika when she was here -- even Paige let her lead the huddles most times. Paige is often the voice in the huddle when she's on the court, and when she sits, Jana has been taking the lead in huddles.

I think KK has to get some defensive minutes when opponent is Notre Dame with super quick Hidalgo or another team with a fast guard like that

I agree, and I hope she defends HH more according to the scout on her than she did in last season's meeting. Hannah favors her right hand, but KK played her straight up and got beat a number of times. By the USC game last season, all the guards shaded Juju to the right and it limited her a bit, just enough for Paige to take the game away. I noticed against Giannaros on BU, another speedy little guard, both KK and Kaitlyn shaded her on the right hand for this very reason.

 

[The deacon]

I think Ash will be the star and probably BE POY,

I think a lot of people will be surprised if Sarah Strong isn't the BE POY two seasons from now. A good as Ashlynn is, her ceiling isn't what Sarah's is, at least in my opinion.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Game 2: USF Rotations Analysis

There is a little narrative after 2 games:

• Kaitlyn and KK are equally potent with the other four starters (see Rotations 1 and 8 below);
• These two rotations maximize the separation against the opponent;
• Almost half of all possessions used the two rotations above; Geno used the other half to weave in Jana, Morgan, Allie and Q for their development and minutes and to give his core six players intermittent breathers;
• At the BU and USF level, practically all rotations did not lose to their opponent rotations;
• Taken together, all rotations other than Rotations 1 and 8, produced roughly the same combined stats as Rotations 1 plus 8 (see EFFiciency, +/-, TPTS, etc.);
• This suggests that (5)+5 is viable;
• It will be interesting to see if the pattern holds for future games.

As with the BU game:

• Kaitlyn and KK share the (1) position;
• Jana and Ice share the (5) position;
• Sarah and Morgan share the (4) position;
• Ash is primarily used for the (2) position;
• Paige is primarily used for the (3) position, though Geno toyed with lineups for a very brief time where she could be the (1) or the (4);
• Allie and Q are glue, this time at the (2)-(3) positions.
  
• 

 

[BBallF]

I think a lot of people will be surprised if Sarah Strong isn't the BE POY two seasons from now. A good as Ashlynn is, her ceiling isn't what Sarah's is, at least in my opinion.

I would take that also in a heartbeat.

 

[hoophuskee]

Game 2: USF Rotations Analysis

There is a little narrative after 2 games:

• Kaitlyn and KK are equally potent with the other four starters (see Rotations 1 and 8 below);
• These two rotations maximize the separation against the opponent;
• Almost half of all possessions used the two rotations above; Geno used the other half to weave in Jana, Morgan, Allie and Q for their development and minutes and to give his core six players intermittent breathers;
• At the BU and USF level, practically all rotations did not lose to their opponent rotations;
• Taken together, all rotations other than Rotations 1 and 8, produced roughly the same combined stats as Rotations 1 plus 8 (see EFFiciency, +/-, TPTS, etc.);
• This suggests that (5)+5 is viable;
• It will be interesting to see if the pattern holds for future games.

As with the BU game:

• Kaitlyn and KK share the (1) position;
• Jana and Ice share the (5) position;
• Sarah and Morgan share the (4) position;
• Ash is primarily used for the (2) position;
• Paige is primarily used for the (3) position, though Geno toyed with lineups for a very brief time where she could be the (1) or the (4);
• Allie and Q are glue, this time at the (2)-(3) positions. View attachment 104743
• View attachment 104744

This is a dumb question but what is pos? I know pos normally means position.

 

[HuskyNan]

Game 2: USF Rotations Analysis

There is a little narrative after 2 games:

• Kaitlyn and KK are equally potent with the other four starters (see Rotations 1 and 8 below);
• These two rotations maximize the separation against the opponent;
• Almost half of all possessions used the two rotations above; Geno used the other half to weave in Jana, Morgan, Allie and Q for their development and minutes and to give his core six players intermittent breathers;
• At the BU and USF level, practically all rotations did not lose to their opponent rotations;
• Taken together, all rotations other than Rotations 1 and 8, produced roughly the same combined stats as Rotations 1 plus 8 (see EFFiciency, +/-, TPTS, etc.);
• This suggests that (5)+5 is viable;
• It will be interesting to see if the pattern holds for future games.

As with the BU game:

• Kaitlyn and KK share the (1) position;
• Jana and Ice share the (5) position;
• Sarah and Morgan share the (4) position;
• Ash is primarily used for the (2) position;
• Paige is primarily used for the (3) position, though Geno toyed with lineups for a very brief time where she could be the (1) or the (4);
• Allie and Q are glue, this time at the (2)-(3) positions. View attachment 104743
• View attachment 104744

Geno hasn't used a traditional 1-5 lineup in decades.

 

[MooseJaw]

I think a lot of people will be surprised if Sarah Strong isn't the BE POY two seasons from now. A good as Ashlynn is, her ceiling isn't what Sarah's is, at least in my opinion.

I agree with you on Sarah having a higher ceiling, maybe in part because she will be playing all over the court, but much closer to the hoop than Ash for most of the game. However at least 2 years ago when Ash, KK and Q all announced for UCONN I wrote on the BY that I thought that Ash may very well become the future face of the team. Will she? Maybe, but one thing is clear Ash has become a fan favorite, a BY darling, after Paige my favorite player. Why you ask, Ash never ever takes a minute, no not even a second off, she plays the game one-way, full speed ahead dam the opposition. Ash is the embodiment of a Husky player; we are lucky to be able to enjoy her time as a loyal Husky. Last thought, no one, and I stress no one, and this is beyond argument will ever outwork Ash never end of story.

 

[Bigboote]

. . . Chen has a tendency to pick up her dribble at the worst possible times, and Chen isn’t exactly immune from turnovers . . .

I shouted about three times last game, "Chen needs to remember she's not playing for Princeton!" The turnovers and picking up the dribble are largely due to her taking on too much herself. (A couple of the times she got stuck in no-man's land, there were 10-15 seconds still on the clock.) The past three years, she had to do a lot of that, but this year she has other very capable scorers on the floor with her.

She's a smart kid being coached by the best staff in the nation. She'll get it, but there's a lot to remove from memory and there will be a few oopses on the way.

 

[BBallF]

I shouted about three times last game, "Chen needs to remember she's not playing for Princeton!" The turnovers and picking up the dribble are largely due to her taking on too much herself. (A couple of the times she got stuck in no-man's land, there were 10-15 seconds still on the clock.) The past three years, she had to do a lot of that, but this year she has other very capable scorers on the floor with her.

She's a smart kid being coached by the best staff in the nation. She'll get it, but there's a lot to remove from memory and there will be a few oopses on the way.

There was that one play where Allie was completely open in the corner and she forced the move. You have the best 3 point shooter in high school open at a sweet spot which is practiced over and over by even pick up players, you give her the ball.

 

[BBallF]

I agree with you on Sarah having a higher ceiling, maybe in part because she will be playing all over the court, but much closer to the hoop than Ash for most of the game. However at least 2 years ago when Ash, KK and Q all announced for UCONN I wrote on the BY that I thought that Ash may very well become the future face of the team. Will she? Maybe, but one thing is clear Ash has become a fan favorite, a BY darling, after Paige my favorite player. Why you ask, Ash never ever takes a minute, no not even a second off, she plays the game one-way, full speed ahead dam the opposition. Ash is the embodiment of a Husky player; we are lucky to be able to enjoy her time as a loyal Husky. Last thought, no one, and I stress no one, and this is beyond argument will ever outwork Ash never end of story.

We all love Ash. As Geno has said, she has an aggressive personality by nature and she should play that way also. He pointed to one play in his post game interview on the floor after the game where she did play aggressively and it resulted in a steal. She and everyone else, even Paige, are growing and maturing as we watch. I think Ash's pull up is stronger and straighter this year than last year's because she is stronger. I also thought her left handed take off a crossover on the fast break was almost text book. That is a tough shot to make but the significance of it was that she used her left hand in that move as well as her right. That only comes by living the same mantra in the old joke you use to get to Carnegie Hall.

 

[HuskyNan]

I also think that many BYers don't remember how great an all around player Azzi is. It's easy to focus, as you said, on the offensive game when it is so overwhelmingly remarkable. Just look at Paige. Do fans ordinarily say what a great defensive player she is? Nope. They look at the offense because it is actually stunning. What did she do last year when playing the 4 position? Defense was unreal and I think she is one of the best defenders the program has ever had. I love watching her live. Her anticipation on defense is unlike any I can recall. Even if Azzi were the best defender iin the league, it would still be about that incredible range , accuracy, lightning release and versatile moves. So I totally get the point which is well taken.

Yep.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

Geno hasn't used a traditional 1-5 lineup in decades.

On paper, when you look at the rotation. I know that Geno’s players play aspects of different positions on every offensive possession. On switching defense, Geno also likes players who can defend different players.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

This is a dumb question but what is pos? I know pos normally means position.

POS is an abbreviation for Possessions (p is another). It is not available from Boxscores.

• The Boxscore FGA, in addition to missing missed FGAs with awarded FTs and possessions with referee-awarded FTs (RFGAs) like over-the-limit-PF FTs, is also distorted by OREBs; it also misses non-FGA possessions.
• There is a related statistic called PACE, which is just POS for 48 minutes instead of 40.

There are many different ways of estimating POS: Analyzing NBA Possession Models | Squared Statistics: Understanding Basketball Analytics

• I use the exact method from play-by-play info inputted to the tool that I built.

Why is POS an important statistic?

• It (supplementing boxscores and a visual eye test) more readily explains why a team can beat its opponent, even tall athletic teams that win rebounding;
• It removes the distortion of OREBS from a phone book offense — many OREBS contribute to just one possession where a team scores anywhere (normally) 0-4 points;
• “Basketball is a game of possessions” is not just an empty aphorism;
• Geno likes around 80 POS #1 per game because his efficient offense works optimally at that pace;
• It is wonderfully surprising that UConn spectacularly won the USF game which had 68 POS with a quality opponent and UConn’s young roster; it suggests that UConn’s lineup is wonderfully ahead of what you would expect this early.

An example of Possessions Analysis is below. UConn’s defense was slightly better than USF’s defense on generating opponent non-FGA possessions;

• UConn’s offensive execution in FGA possessions is simply better than both USF’s defense and USF’s offensive execution;
• UConn spent 14s for FGMs; 23s for missed FGAs (without FTs), and 18s on non-FGA possessions.

#1 That is why losing Nika in Paige’s freshman year tournament run was devastating to Geno. One of the favorite tactics against Geno is to muck up his beautiful offense by controlling pace.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

This is a dumb question but what is pos? I know pos normally means position.

I’ll always think of Donald Sutherland’s characterization of POS.

 

[BBallF]

Yep.

So, every BYer that has any doubts or a cloudy memory about how good Azzi is should watch these highlights. There is not a quicker, more pure release in women's college basketball and maybe anywhere. With her and Paige and Ash and Sarah you have 4 potent shooters and scorers and an offensive contingent we perhaps have never seen here. Throw a little Morgan and Allie in the mix and you simply cannot leave anyone open at all from the outside. Sarah may not be not the consistent or pure shooter that the others are right now but she is a great scorer. and is poised to do great things here.

 

[packwrap]

Geno hasn't used a traditional 1-5 lineup in decades.

Of course you are right. The 3 guards are basically interchangable and the 2 posts as well...

...but for discussion purposes, you can still identify a 1-5.

1 - point - brings ball up, initiates offense, regroups late in shot clock.
2 - shooting guard - hunts their shot working thru screens
3 - wing - like 2, but more hanging out on perimeter, or backdoor cuts.
4 - forward - works a zone from low post to corner 3.
5 - center - works a zone from low post to high post.
If the 4 and 5 can shoot the 3, their area can extend even beyond the arc, setting screens for the guards.

You can usually figure out, at least on a possession by possession basis, who is in what role.