What's Your Take: Should the NCAA do away with Conference Tournaments? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

What's Your Take: Should the NCAA do away with Conference Tournaments?

It depends. Vandy’s loss to Ole Miss in the conference tournament cost them any chance of a #1 seed in the Big Dance, while also dropping them from the top #2 seed (5th overall) to the 3rd #2 seed (7th overall). As a result, Vandy swapped positions with LSU, moving them from UCLA’s region to UConn’s region, a place that no team really wants to be.
True about Vandy but I was under the impression that they were a 2 seed before the tournament, so the loss didn't really move them.
If they were a 1 seed on the latest, pre tournament committee reveal, I agree with you.
 
I like them. I can see why coaches don't, that's an easy sell. But we get to see our Huskies three times in three days, which for the fans is a plus. The team is deep, so plenty of time for the subs to take the load off. And when we weren't deep due to injuries, we still figured it out and the kids learned a lot along the way. As for the mid-majors, it's a great opportunity, and yeah, there's the puncher's chance that a hot team makes it in. I'm ok with the occasional sub-.500 team making it. They're not really taking the spot of anyone much better.
 
True about Vandy but I was under the impression that they were a 2 seed before the tournament, so the loss didn't really move them.
If they were a 1 seed on the latest, pre tournament committee reveal, I agree with you.
I brought this up in another thread. Charlie had Vandy as a 2 seed playing against UCLA and LSU another 2 seed playing UConn because of the stranglehold that the SEC had on the other teams. The SEC is stacked this season. They have the 3, 4, 5 and 6 teams in the country. With how their tournament has played out LSU and Vandy should swap spots. Now Kim takes on the Bruins while Shea takes on the Huskies. At least that’s how it should play out if the committee sees it that way.
 
In addition to ticket sales, tv revenue and concessions, the BE tournament gets a substantial amount from the Mohegan Sun, who bids on hosting the tournament. The Mohegan Sun then takes in money from hotel rooms, dinner reservations and gambling revenues over a 4 day period that total in the 10’s of millions

Trust me, BE teams more than cover their travel expenses to Uncasville, CT for the conference tournament.
and how do you know this or is this just your opinion?
 
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Absolutely not, when it's March it's a field of 364 then down to 68 on selection Sunday.
 
Someone hit the slots there for almost $200k last night. About $80k then $120K about 1 hour later.
My wife and I went to the tournament last year and spent a lot of money on tickets, our room, meals and parking. But for the first and probably only time in my life I walked away from the casino up about $100. It wasn’t much. But the fact that I didn’t lose money at the casino felt like I just won the lottery.
 
True about Vandy but I was under the impression that they were a 2 seed before the tournament, so the loss didn't really move them.
If they were a 1 seed on the latest, pre tournament committee reveal, I agree with you.
Yes, but the loss moved them from the highest #2 to the 3rd #2, and a potential matchup with UConn in the Elite 8 rather than UCLA.
 
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and how do you know this or is this just your opinion?
Well I know there’s millions associated with the BE tournament at the Mohegan Sun every year from TV revenue, ticket and merchandise sales and the fee that the Mohegan Sun pays to the BE to host the tournament. In 2022 the BE extended their contract with the Mohegan Sun through 2026. I expect they will negotiate another extension after this year’s tournament.

The specific $$$ that each team earns from the conference tournament are confidential. But all indications are that the teams do very well financially.
 
The conference tourneys are necessary to find the top team in the big, enormous, gigantic conferences with the very unbalanced schedules. So if you want true conference champions you need tournaments or mire balanced schedules
 
I feel like Claude Rains in Casablanca. “I’m shocked, shocked to find there’s gambling going on in here.” In this instance I’m shocked to find this is all about money.

Here’s a question for those BY’ers who are advocating for doing away with lucrative conference basketball tournaments. How are schools that are paying head coaches million dollar salaries, as well as paying players 5 and 6 figure profit sharing salaries, going to be able to field competitive teams if they start cutting revenue sources from their budgets?
You were getting a “Like” just for the Casa Blanca reference but DOUBLE “Likes”
For asking the BYers on their opinion about generating income without the tournament. In the last 5 years, all 4 P4 conference tournaments are showing big attendance boosts and the BE (or any conference with UConn) has 9k fans at it. Which is why I find Vic Schaefer’s regular whine about anything not in favor of his benefit irritating. Sorry that Greenville bid for the SEC so you had to travel and that SC has a lot of fans show up but maybe, just maybe, if you actually win a title as a HC you can get fans that travel…
 
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I'll bet that small schools earn some money to help defray the cost of SCHOLARSHIPS FOR THE PLAYERS.

The tournaments are a current snapshot of the relative strength of each team.
The regular season results help to fill the at-large bids, while the tournaments result in the automatic bids.
So the regular season results are not negated, they're still used for the at-latge bids.

As far as I can tell, there aren't any "one bid confererences." There are only conferences with an automatic invitation for their tournament winner. Nothing prohibits any conference from receiving a 2nd at-large bid.

If the NCAA system isn't broken then it doesn't need to be fixed, and nothing indicates that it's a broken system.

 
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You were getting a “Like” just for the Casa Blanca reference but DOUBLE “Likes”
For asking the BYers on their opinion about generating income without the tournament. In the last 5 years, all 4 P4 conference tournaments are showing big attendance boosts and the BE (or any conference with UConn) has 9k fans at it. Which is why I find Vic Schaefer’s regular whine about anything not in favor of his benefit irritating. Sorry that Greenville bid for the SEC so you had to travel and that SC has a lot of fans show up but maybe, just maybe, if you actually win a title as a HC you can get fans that travel…
There are just a few WBB teams whose fans travel. UConn, Iowa and SC are certainly among them. A number of years back when UConn beat SC in Albany, NY, I was surprised at how many SC fans made the long trip. My wife and I met a group of older ladies from Columbia at dinner one night who were absolutely charming.
 
Well I know there’s millions associated with the BE tournament at the Mohegan Sun every year from TV revenue, ticket and merchandise sales and the fee that the Mohegan Sun pays to the BE to host the tournament. In 2022 the BE extended their contract with the Mohegan Sun through 2026. I expect they will negotiate another extension after this year’s tournament.

The specific $$$ that each team earns from the conference tournament are confidential. But all indications are that the teams do very well financially.
I’m not sure where the millions comes from
The inflate a ticket prices are not with the face value is
I went to the Mohegan box office in for very good seats paid $44 with 8000 seats at an average of $50 that’s 400,000 and I don’t think it’s sold out for all three days
I would be surprised if the gross made $1 million
Take out the expenses
Travel for the teens housing probably $50,000 for referees
Maybe he’s school gets a check for 50,000?
Uconn would make more with one extra regular season game at gampell
 
I’m not sure where the millions comes from
The inflate a ticket prices are not with the face value is
I went to the Mohegan box office in for very good seats paid $44 with 8000 seats at an average of $50 that’s 400,000 and I don’t think it’s sold out for all three days
I would be surprised if the gross made $1 million
Take out the expenses
Travel for the teens housing probably $50,000 for referees
Maybe he’s school gets a check for 50,000?
Uconn would make more with one extra regular season game at gampell
I’ll say this again. There are multiple sources of revenue involved beyond ticket prices. The Mohegan Sun pays a lot of money for a tournament that spans 4 days. There isn’t much to do in Uncasville, CT outside of the Mohegan Sun. They effectively have a captive audience with thousands of fans paying to stay at their hotel, park their cars, eat at their restaurants and gamble at their casinos.

In addition, the BE recent tv contract with NBC is also a multi year, multimillion dollar deal, which encompasses the WBB conference tournament.
 
I’ll say this again. There are multiple sources of revenue involved beyond ticket prices. The Mohegan Sun pays a lot of money for a tournament that spans 4 days. There isn’t much to do in Uncasville, CT outside of the Mohegan Sun. They effectively have a captive audience with thousands of fans paying to stay at their hotel, park their cars, eat at their restaurants and gamble at their casinos.

In addition, the BE recent tv contract with NBC is also a multi year, multimillion dollar deal, which encompasses the WBB conference tournament.
Absolutely. Nothing, and that includes big music performances or theater gigs, makes ends meet on ticket prices alone. It's kind of a mantra in the music promotion biz that the last three rows are where the profit kicks in. Sponsorship, food, especially beverage, and merch sales are the big dollar draw. Then there's the media rights... Tickets are there just to cover most basic costs.
 
For half of the teams in major conferences, and 90% of the teams in the rest of the nation, the conference tournament is the end of year celebration. 360 D1 programs, 68 teams in the NCAA, 48 in the WNIT so 116 teams total do something after the end of the conference play - 32%. For all conferences historically, and most conference even now, they are 'regional' in nature and if you stay 4 years at the same school, you play the same conference teams a minimum of 8 times in your career, so you know them in a way you will never know players outside of conference. So each year you have a celebration and award ceremony with a group of friends/frenemies. play 1-4 more games and head back to classes and your 'off season.' Nice experience for the also-ran teams and a coda on a long season.

We now have a few super conferences that span the country in all directions, and play all but 1-3 teams a single time in conference each year. It becomes the same thing as scheduling a home/home series with any team in the country, except it is mandated by the conference. To me it is nice to see teams have to play a second game against a conference and only occasionally do they end up playing a third.

And ultimately, the NCAA has no say in the conference schedules, conference make up, and who gets the conference auto-bid. The Ivy for example didn't have a conference tournament for years, and other conferences have in the past had tournaments but assigned the auto-bid to their reg season champ.

So, it is up to the conference as to what they schedule - teams are still going to want 32-34 pre-NCAA games and the NCAA would need to change their 'regular season' maximum games for that to happen - currently they do not count conference tournaments, and you get an in season tournament that does not count actual number of games. I would be OK if the conferences expanded their regular season schedule, but would hate teams getting to add 3 more cupcakes to a currently mostly ridiculous OOC schedule.
 
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If the Tournament has an Automatic Bid then it makes for a lot of excitement because there is something of real value to play for. At the same time I think when a low ranked team plays over their heads and gets into the NCAA tournament it definitely waters down the field. All they get is to face UConn or South Carolina in the first game but for a team that has never been there even that is an accomplishment. It is possible for a team with a losing record to get into the NCAA tournament so I think that is the biggest argument against having the Conference Tournaments.
 
There is a ridiculously easy fix: Assign the automatic conference bid to the team with the best conference record. Remove any reference to a conference tournament.
For many existing problems, there is a potential fix that's easy to state. In some rare cases, that fix is implemented and it works.

This is not one of those rare cases.

Let's consider what happens if we decide that the regular-season record will determine the automatic bid.

For perspective, there are currently 31 conferences, and last year seven conferences had multiple bids which means 24 conferences were single bid conferences.

That's roughly 3/4 of the schools.

Halfway through the season, about half of the schools will be effectively eliminated from postseason consideration. Three quarters of the way through the season probably three quarters of the schools will be in that position.

That means over half the schools in the nation will have nothing to play for in terms of postseason potential. Yes, we want players to play for the love of the game, and all the values that come from hard work, practice camaraderie with fellow players etc., and it wouldn't surprise me if players managed to stay interested but I suspect fans would lose interest.

How many (non-parent) fans are going to show up to a game when there is virtually no chance of playing in the postseason. You've already eliminated the conference tournament, so it pretty much means, for the fans, is really nothing at stake.

The first year that might not be a material difference because fans won't immediately "get it," but I bet in the second year fan attendance will drop off for a significant proportion of teams as the season wears on. It literally might be the start of the end of the sport.
 
There are quite a few distinct questions here: First, should the NCAA decide whether the individual conferences should conduct tournaments?

Hell no!

It should remain within the powers of each individual conference to decide for itself.

Now that we have established the INcompetance of the NCAA to decide, with its usual skill, anything more, let us proceed to the merits of each choice.

My most unworthy opinion is that the conference tournaments are a burden with few discernible benefits.

Next: Expand the NCAA tournament? Why? We can already see lots of mediocre games.

Next: Should teams with <.500 records in their respective conferences be invited to the “big show?”

No.

My sole credential for saying these things is that I, like you, have opinions.
When was the last time the NCAA did anything right? Uh, never?
 
In Geno's presser yesterday, he voiced the opinion that conference tournaments perhaps are not necessary. He also stated that basically middle-of-the-pack teams with sub-500 league records do not belong in the NCAA tournament. Earlier in the week, Kim Mulkey also spoke against conference tournaments. Arguments about these topics have been around since conference tournaments started but what has changed is the landscape. There has been talk recently about inviting all DI teams to the postseason tournament. What is that, only 2 more rounds? 64-128-256.
  • I think it's a different scenario depending on a team's position in the standings. (Geno mentioned this)
  • What do you think the benefits and/or drawbacks of a conference tournament are as you see it, in general.
  • For UConn this year, will the conference tourney help or hurt the team going forward.
  • Any historical references you could share.

I played in HS with Steve Castellan, who went to UVA. His freshman year there, 1975-76, the team went 13-11 overall, 4-8 in the ACC, and they won the conference tournament and went to the NCAA tournament, at a time when ALL leagues were one bid leagues. They beat NC, NC St, and MD to win the tourney to advance, eventually losing to DePaul in the NCAA's. That was historic stuff for the ACC. Long story short, it meant a lot for that team!

He has a lot of opinions.

This one is stupid. Really, really stupid.
 
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He has a lot of opinions.

This one is stupid. Really, really stupid.
If the argument is that conference tournaments aren't indicative of the best team then maybe they should also get rid of the NCAA tournament. Just have a committee vote on the champion.

Such a silly comment that ignores everyone's interest but his own.
 
If the argument is that conference tournaments aren't indicative of the best team then maybe they should also get rid of the NCAA tournament. Just have a committee vote on the champion.

Such a silly comment that ignores everyone's interest but his own.

He hasn't breathed the same air that a mid or low major team breathes for a very, very long time so he's just out of touch.

The conference tournament is the thing for those conferences.
 
I disagree with Getting rid of Conference tournaments..

These tournaments are what College basketball is all about. At least when I was growing up. There was nothing better than watching the old Big East Mens tournaments.. Even on the women's side when it was Uconn facing Notre Dame, Rutgers or Louisville...

On the other hand, I can see where Geno is coming from because let's all be honest... This Big East is awful...

Even the most diehard Uconn fans (I am one of them) probably agree..

I was talking to two diehard Uconn fans today and they were telling me it's a joke watching Uconn beat everyone by 50 points. .

Just my thoughts.

Btw,

I am glad we are the ones winning by 50 every game though...
 
In Geno's presser yesterday, he voiced the opinion that conference tournaments perhaps are not necessary. He also stated that basically middle-of-the-pack teams with sub-500 league records do not belong in the NCAA tournament. Earlier in the week, Kim Mulkey also spoke against conference tournaments. Arguments about these topics have been around since conference tournaments started but what has changed is the landscape. There has been talk recently about inviting all DI teams to the postseason tournament. What is that, only 2 more rounds? 64-128-256.
  • I think it's a different scenario depending on a team's position in the standings. (Geno mentioned this)
  • What do you think the benefits and/or drawbacks of a conference tournament are as you see it, in general.
  • For UConn this year, will the conference tourney help or hurt the team going forward.
  • Any historical references you could share.

I played in HS with Steve Castellan, who went to UVA. His freshman year there, 1975-76, the team went 13-11 overall, 4-8 in the ACC, and they won the conference tournament and went to the NCAA tournament, at a time when ALL leagues were one bid leagues. They beat NC, NC St, and MD to win the tourney to advance, eventually losing to DePaul in the NCAA's. That was historic stuff for the ACC. Long story short, it meant a lot for that team!
My impression after watching college basketball for over 50 years is that for every conference winning team that exceeds expectations in the playoffs, there are 10-20 that get beat downs like Creighton. Would have to think hard at what the non-financial benefits are of these scenarios.
 
My impression after watching college basketball for over 50 years is that for every conference winning team that exceeds expectations in the playoffs, there are 10-20 that get beat downs like Creighton. Would have to think hard at what the non-financial benefits are of these scenarios.
I’m a bit puzzled by your comment. Wouldn’t it necessarily follow that if one team “exceeds expectations” then another team would fail to meet expectations? Isn’t that the nature of sports competition?
 
I just have one sentence for all this and yes I'm intending on making this all caps not directed at anyone but just generally speaking.

SHUT UP AND LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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