What's Your Take: Should the NCAA do away with Conference Tournaments?

[CL82]

I think the regular season Championship is the true judge of who's the best in each conference!
Not who's healthy and hottest for a weekend!
An undefeated team in their conference who is sick or hurt for their tournament may not make the tournament in a 1 choice league!

You are probably right, but the drama of the postseason conference tournament is unmatched. It's a fair argument that it devalues the regular season, though.

Above some people commented about the financial liability of postseason conferences. That may be true for mid Majors, but it certainly not true for the big east. On the men's side, the big east tournament is a phenomenal event, with great energy. The secondary market shows the popularity of the event with seat cost skyrocketing.

Similarly, the big east tournament at Mohegan Sun on the woman's side is a great event.

For teams who aren't going to go on to the NCAA tournament, conference tournaments, create opportunities for at least one more game. So, while I agree with your comment that the regular season is a better barometer of the best team, ultimately, the market will decide whether or not they continue. As long as they continue to be popular, they'll continue to be held.

 

[Centerstream]

Ok, so let's have some fun with this. I'll track the regular season vs conf tourney champs. If we were to fill the NCAAT spots with those two groups, how many would be left? As of this morning, 67 sports left after W IL won both.

I would also like to know how tournament losses affect the seeding in the Big Dance. I'm only interested in a scenario where the regular season champ, and a likely 1 or 2 seed, loses before the championship game. The same thing with the regular season runner ups.
I don't know how often the top 2 teams haven't reached their championship game in recent years but I doubt that it really affected their seeding in the Big Dance.

 

[ThisJustIn]

1st - I'd ask the students what they think.
2nd - how about we reduce the conf tourneys to the 4 top teams?
3rd - do NOT expand the NCAA tournament. Early rounds are sad enough as it is...

 

[oldude]

I would also like to know how tournament loses affect the seeding in the Big Dance. I'm only interested in a scenario where the regular season champ, and a likely 1 or 2 seed, loses before the championship game. The same thing with the regular season runner ups.
I don't know how often the top 2 teams haven't reached their championship game in recent years but I doubt that it really affected their seeding in the Big Dance.

It depends. Vandy’s loss to Ole Miss in the conference tournament cost them any chance of a #1 seed in the Big Dance, while also dropping them from the top #2 seed (5th overall) to the 3rd #2 seed (7th overall). As a result, Vandy swapped positions with LSU, moving them from UCLA’s region to UConn’s region, a place that no team really wants to be.

 

[uconnfan68]

In addition to ticket sales, tv revenue and concessions, the BE tournament gets a substantial amount from the Mohegan Sun, who bids on hosting the tournament. The Mohegan Sun then takes in money from hotel rooms, dinner reservations and gambling revenues over a 4 day period that total in the 10’s of millions

Trust me, BE teams more than cover their travel expenses to Uncasville, CT for the conference tournament.

Someone hit the slots there for almost $200k last night. About $80k then $120K about 1 hour later.

 

[Centerstream]

It depends. Vandy’s loss to Ole Miss in the conference tournament cost them any chance of a #1 seed in the Big Dance, while also dropping them from the top #2 seed (5th overall) to the 3rd #2 seed (7th overall). As a result, Vandy swapped positions with LSU, moving them from UCLA’s region to UConn’s region, a place that no team really wants to be.

True about Vandy but I was under the impression that they were a 2 seed before the tournament, so the loss didn't really move them.
If they were a 1 seed on the latest, pre tournament committee reveal, I agree with you.

 

[Vowelguy]

* Conferences should decide if they have tournaments. For years the Ivy and PAC did not have them, but ultimately switched because that’s what people wanted .

* The conference tourneys are great fun.

 

[Dogdude]

I like them. I can see why coaches don't, that's an easy sell. But we get to see our Huskies three times in three days, which for the fans is a plus. The team is deep, so plenty of time for the subs to take the load off. And when we weren't deep due to injuries, we still figured it out and the kids learned a lot along the way. As for the mid-majors, it's a great opportunity, and yeah, there's the puncher's chance that a hot team makes it in. I'm ok with the occasional sub-.500 team making it. They're not really taking the spot of anyone much better.

 

[ConnMotors]

True about Vandy but I was under the impression that they were a 2 seed before the tournament, so the loss didn't really move them.
If they were a 1 seed on the latest, pre tournament committee reveal, I agree with you.

I brought this up in another thread. Charlie had Vandy as a 2 seed playing against UCLA and LSU another 2 seed playing UConn because of the stranglehold that the SEC had on the other teams. The SEC is stacked this season. They have the 3, 4, 5 and 6 teams in the country. With how their tournament has played out LSU and Vandy should swap spots. Now Kim takes on the Bruins while Shea takes on the Huskies. At least that’s how it should play out if the committee sees it that way.

 

[MooseJaw]

NO,

 

[Zonepress]

In addition to ticket sales, tv revenue and concessions, the BE tournament gets a substantial amount from the Mohegan Sun, who bids on hosting the tournament. The Mohegan Sun then takes in money from hotel rooms, dinner reservations and gambling revenues over a 4 day period that total in the 10’s of millions

Trust me, BE teams more than cover their travel expenses to Uncasville, CT for the conference tournament.

and how do you know this or is this just your opinion?

 

[Scoe]

Absolutely not, when it's March it's a field of 364 then down to 68 on selection Sunday.

 

[oldude]

Someone hit the slots there for almost $200k last night. About $80k then $120K about 1 hour later.

My wife and I went to the tournament last year and spent a lot of money on tickets, our room, meals and parking. But for the first and probably only time in my life I walked away from the casino up about $100. It wasn’t much. But the fact that I didn’t lose money at the casino felt like I just won the lottery.

 

[oldude]

True about Vandy but I was under the impression that they were a 2 seed before the tournament, so the loss didn't really move them.
If they were a 1 seed on the latest, pre tournament committee reveal, I agree with you.

Yes, but the loss moved them from the highest #2 to the 3rd #2, and a potential matchup with UConn in the Elite 8 rather than UCLA.

 

[oldude]

and how do you know this or is this just your opinion?

Well I know there’s millions associated with the BE tournament at the Mohegan Sun every year from TV revenue, ticket and merchandise sales and the fee that the Mohegan Sun pays to the BE to host the tournament. In 2022 the BE extended their contract with the Mohegan Sun through 2026. I expect they will negotiate another extension after this year’s tournament.

The specific $$$ that each team earns from the conference tournament are confidential. But all indications are that the teams do very well financially.

 

[Glenn]

The conference tourneys are necessary to find the top team in the big, enormous, gigantic conferences with the very unbalanced schedules. So if you want true conference champions you need tournaments or mire balanced schedules

 

[DefenseBB]

I feel like Claude Rains in Casablanca. “I’m shocked, shocked to find there’s gambling going on in here.” In this instance I’m shocked to find this is all about money.

Here’s a question for those BY’ers who are advocating for doing away with lucrative conference basketball tournaments. How are schools that are paying head coaches million dollar salaries, as well as paying players 5 and 6 figure profit sharing salaries, going to be able to field competitive teams if they start cutting revenue sources from their budgets?

You were getting a “Like” just for the Casa Blanca reference but DOUBLE “Likes”
For asking the BYers on their opinion about generating income without the tournament. In the last 5 years, all 4 P4 conference tournaments are showing big attendance boosts and the BE (or any conference with UConn) has 9k fans at it. Which is why I find Vic Schaefer’s regular whine about anything not in favor of his benefit irritating. Sorry that Greenville bid for the SEC so you had to travel and that SC has a lot of fans show up but maybe, just maybe, if you actually win a title as a HC you can get fans that travel…

 

[sun]

I'll bet that small schools earn some money to help defray the cost of SCHOLARSHIPS FOR THE PLAYERS.

The tournaments are a current snapshot of the relative strength of each team.
The regular season results help to fill the at-large bids, while the tournaments result in the automatic bids.
So the regular season results are not negated, they're still used for the at-latge bids.

As far as I can tell, there aren't any "one bid confererences." There are only conferences with an automatic invitation for their tournament winner. Nothing prohibits any conference from receiving a 2nd at-large bid.

If the NCAA system isn't broken then it doesn't need to be fixed, and nothing indicates that it's a broken system.

NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Selections

NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament Selections

www.ncaa.org

 

[oldude]

You were getting a “Like” just for the Casa Blanca reference but DOUBLE “Likes”
For asking the BYers on their opinion about generating income without the tournament. In the last 5 years, all 4 P4 conference tournaments are showing big attendance boosts and the BE (or any conference with UConn) has 9k fans at it. Which is why I find Vic Schaefer’s regular whine about anything not in favor of his benefit irritating. Sorry that Greenville bid for the SEC so you had to travel and that SC has a lot of fans show up but maybe, just maybe, if you actually win a title as a HC you can get fans that travel…

There are just a few WBB teams whose fans travel. UConn, Iowa and SC are certainly among them. A number of years back when UConn beat SC in Albany, NY, I was surprised at how many SC fans made the long trip. My wife and I met a group of older ladies from Columbia at dinner one night who were absolutely charming.

 

[Zonepress]

Well I know there’s millions associated with the BE tournament at the Mohegan Sun every year from TV revenue, ticket and merchandise sales and the fee that the Mohegan Sun pays to the BE to host the tournament. In 2022 the BE extended their contract with the Mohegan Sun through 2026. I expect they will negotiate another extension after this year’s tournament.

The specific $$$ that each team earns from the conference tournament are confidential. But all indications are that the teams do very well financially.

I’m not sure where the millions comes from
The inflate a ticket prices are not with the face value is
I went to the Mohegan box office in for very good seats paid $44 with 8000 seats at an average of $50 that’s 400,000 and I don’t think it’s sold out for all three days
I would be surprised if the gross made $1 million
Take out the expenses
Travel for the teens housing probably $50,000 for referees
Maybe he’s school gets a check for 50,000?
Uconn would make more with one extra regular season game at gampell

 

[oldude]

I’m not sure where the millions comes from
The inflate a ticket prices are not with the face value is
I went to the Mohegan box office in for very good seats paid $44 with 8000 seats at an average of $50 that’s 400,000 and I don’t think it’s sold out for all three days
I would be surprised if the gross made $1 million
Take out the expenses
Travel for the teens housing probably $50,000 for referees
Maybe he’s school gets a check for 50,000?
Uconn would make more with one extra regular season game at gampell

I’ll say this again. There are multiple sources of revenue involved beyond ticket prices. The Mohegan Sun pays a lot of money for a tournament that spans 4 days. There isn’t much to do in Uncasville, CT outside of the Mohegan Sun. They effectively have a captive audience with thousands of fans paying to stay at their hotel, park their cars, eat at their restaurants and gamble at their casinos.

In addition, the BE recent tv contract with NBC is also a multi year, multimillion dollar deal, which encompasses the WBB conference tournament.

 

[Dogdude]

I’ll say this again. There are multiple sources of revenue involved beyond ticket prices. The Mohegan Sun pays a lot of money for a tournament that spans 4 days. There isn’t much to do in Uncasville, CT outside of the Mohegan Sun. They effectively have a captive audience with thousands of fans paying to stay at their hotel, park their cars, eat at their restaurants and gamble at their casinos.

In addition, the BE recent tv contract with NBC is also a multi year, multimillion dollar deal, which encompasses the WBB conference tournament.

Absolutely. Nothing, and that includes big music performances or theater gigs, makes ends meet on ticket prices alone. It's kind of a mantra in the music promotion biz that the last three rows are where the profit kicks in. Sponsorship, food, especially beverage, and merch sales are the big dollar draw. Then there's the media rights... Tickets are there just to cover most basic costs.

 

[ucmiami2]

For half of the teams in major conferences, and 90% of the teams in the rest of the nation, the conference tournament is the end of year celebration. 360 D1 programs, 68 teams in the NCAA, 48 in the WNIT so 116 teams total do something after the end of the conference play - 32%. For all conferences historically, and most conference even now, they are 'regional' in nature and if you stay 4 years at the same school, you play the same conference teams a minimum of 8 times in your career, so you know them in a way you will never know players outside of conference. So each year you have a celebration and award ceremony with a group of friends/frenemies. play 1-4 more games and head back to classes and your 'off season.' Nice experience for the also-ran teams and a coda on a long season.

We now have a few super conferences that span the country in all directions, and play all but 1-3 teams a single time in conference each year. It becomes the same thing as scheduling a home/home series with any team in the country, except it is mandated by the conference. To me it is nice to see teams have to play a second game against a conference and only occasionally do they end up playing a third.

And ultimately, the NCAA has no say in the conference schedules, conference make up, and who gets the conference auto-bid. The Ivy for example didn't have a conference tournament for years, and other conferences have in the past had tournaments but assigned the auto-bid to their reg season champ.

So, it is up to the conference as to what they schedule - teams are still going to want 32-34 pre-NCAA games and the NCAA would need to change their 'regular season' maximum games for that to happen - currently they do not count conference tournaments, and you get an in season tournament that does not count actual number of games. I would be OK if the conferences expanded their regular season schedule, but would hate teams getting to add 3 more cupcakes to a currently mostly ridiculous OOC schedule.

 

[maple]

Someone hit the slots there for almost $200k last night. About $80k then $120K about 1 hour later.

And here I was feeling good that I brought in $200 for the slots and managed to walk out with $50 in my pocket!

 

[Willy96]

If the Tournament has an Automatic Bid then it makes for a lot of excitement because there is something of real value to play for. At the same time I think when a low ranked team plays over their heads and gets into the NCAA tournament it definitely waters down the field. All they get is to face UConn or South Carolina in the first game but for a team that has never been there even that is an accomplishment. It is possible for a team with a losing record to get into the NCAA tournament so I think that is the biggest argument against having the Conference Tournaments.