What's Happening at LA Tech [merged thread]

[polycom]

I said it's a similar theory. A 16-year-old can say yes all she wants to a 30-year-old, but that doesn't make it consensual.

I never said the relationship was illegal. I said it's not ever going to be fully consensual because of the power imbalance.

This is illegal because 1 of the parties in question is a minor. It has nothing to do with position. If the 16 year old is now 20 and the 30 year old is her boss at Wendy's they can have sex and it would be consensual. Take the idea of sports out of it.

 

[sarals24]

So basically, the girls in question have no free will. OK. You are making the BIG and unfounded assumption that the person in power was holding this over her head. Where are the facts to back that up.

I never said that. But the fact is, he did have power over her. So whether or not he held it over her head is irrelevant. It was still there. A coach or a teacher is in a unique position over a student/athlete. They are their boss, mentor, leader etc. They have power, authority, trust. So a student or athlete should never be in a position to potentially turn that relationship sexual, because there are other dynamics at play. Tyler holds the blame here, even if the player was coming on to him.

 

[CL82]

It can't be consensual when one person is in power over the other. By definition. That's why he resigned - if he had just cheated on his wife with with a random person no one would know, or care. (probably)

Disagree. It can be consensual. It is still grounds for discharge though.

I find myself in the unenviable position of appearing to advocate for adultery. I'm don't. I do think that young men in their early 20s have an innate inability to perceive and understand long term consequences. That doesn't mean that they should not be held accountable for their actions, of course they should.

I just look at these facts and look at a kid who had a pretty sweet life handed to him and who blew it, personally, professionally and financially and I feel badly for him.

It's a dark day on the Boneyard when I'm the most forgiving poster.

 

[sarals24]

This is illegal because 1 of the parties in question is a minor. It has nothing to do with position. If the 16 year old is now 20 and the 30 year old is her boss at Wendy's they can have sex and it would be consensual. Take the idea of sports out of it.

No it wouldn't - he's her boss. Yes, technically she's able to consent under the law, but it can never be a fully consensual relationship if he's in power over her. I'm not saying it's illegal.

 

[OldAlum]

I think differing uses of "consensual" are a problem here.
In my view, a relationship in these circumstances can be consensual but it is not ethical or appropriate - mostly (but not always exclusively) on the part of the person in authority

 

[intlzncster]

I never said that. But the fact is, he did have power over her. So whether or not he held it over her head is irrelevant. It was still there. A coach or a teacher is in a unique position over a student/athlete. They are their boss, mentor, leader etc. They have power, authority, trust. So a student or athlete should never be in a position to potentially turn that relationship sexual, because there are other dynamics at play. Tyler holds the blame here, even if the player was coming on to him.

Here's where we are disagreeing. We both believe it was an abuse of power, and inappropriate for a person charged with coaching/teaching another person. It is absolutely grounds for dismissal, and all the follow on affects. But the relationship was absolutely consensual.

Regarding the power dynamic, she actually has the more powerful trump card. Say he is scared and wants to end the relationship. She has every opportunity to say she will tell the administration of their relationship if he tries to end it. He loses EVERYTHING. She might have to transfer to another school at worst.

The power dynamic in that sense is far more tilted towards to the player than the coach. He takes the greater risk.

 

[NewCorn]

He's young stupid and it was consensual. I don't condone it but I do feel badly for all involved. You don't?

Tyler and his "other woman" are adults who knew exactly what they were doing. He was getting what he wanted; she had her hold on a rich young man, and everyone else be damned. Why should anyone waste time feeling badly for those two? All of us were young once. Most of us did some stupid things. But most of us set moral limits on our stupidity.

 

[intlzncster]

This is illegal because 1 of the parties in question is a minor. It has nothing to do with position. If the 16 year old is now 20 and the 30 year old is her boss at Wendy's they can have sex and it would be consensual. Take the idea of sports out of it.

Just to nitpick. Depends on the definition of the law. For instance 16 is legal for femails in Massachusetts for consent, to someone of any age.

As an aside, for MA, for a person in a position of power, the age of consent is actually 18. And oddly, the age of consent for males is 18, older than females by two years.

 

[Bliss]

Was he wrong? Yes. Was she wrong? Yes.

However, he was in a position of authority; coach to player. No matter her age and personal feelings this might legally be considered as being sexual harassment should she have a change of heart, retain a good lawyer, and choose to sue - both the university and him. Morals, personal attraction, etc. have no bearing upon legal matters.

 

[UcMiami]

But the relationship was absolutely consensual.

We are dealing somewhat in semantics here, but you absolutely cannot assume the above statement.
It may have been, it may not have been - you cannot make that statement based solely on them both being adults in a situation where there is a clear imbalance of power.

 

[CL82]

Was he wrong? Yes. Was she wrong? Yes.

However, he was in a position of authority; coach to player. No matter her age and personal feelings this might legally be considered as being sexual harassment should she have a change of heart, retain a good lawyer, and choose to sue - both the university and him. Morals, personal attraction, etc. have no bearing upon legal matters.

With "might" being the operational word in that post. Yeah, I suppose it "might" be considered that way.

Where I think he has more risk is regarding the other players who lost playing time to his paramour.

 

[intlzncster]

We are dealing somewhat in semantics here, but you absolutely cannot assume the above statement.
It may have been, it may not have been - you cannot make that statement based solely on them both being adults in a situation where there is a clear imbalance of power.

That is true. Good correction. And as I said above, it may not have been consensual on his part. She could have held the threat of revealing it (and subsequently ruining his career/family) over him, in order to continue the relationship.

We just don't know.

 

[CL82]

We are dealing somewhat in semantics here, but you absolutely cannot assume the above statement.
It may have been, it may not have been - you cannot make that statement based solely on them both being adults in a situation where there is a clear imbalance of power.

You are correct, since none of us have first hand knowledge, but the known facts tend to support that conclusion.

con·sen·su·al
[kənˈsen(t)SH(əw)əl]
ADJECTIVE

1. relating to or involving consent, especially mutual consent:
   "he admitted to having consensual sex with two women"

 

[Carnac]

It's not like he was tearing it up...30 and 31 I believe. He did not earn either position he held in WCBB. Why on God's earth would anyone hire him again as a coach? The "down the line" is a line of infinite length.

Down the line is an infinite length of time. I said down the line because I (no one) knows how long it will be before he's ready to get back in the game. It might be 2-3 years, it maybe 5-7 years. Who knows. Or, he may not ever coach again. There's a belief that a person deserves a "second chance". Look a all of the professional athletes )and coaches) that committed transgressions of various degree. Most of them got a second chance at some point. Some of their crimes or transgressions were a whole lot worse than Tyler's. There are several head coaches in Division 1 that have walked a mile in Tyler's shoes, and they are back coaching again.

There is always a sympathetic GM or AD somewhere that will give people like Tyler a second chance. You or I may not ever do it, but there are others that would, and will. Those are the people that I refer to.
If Tyler and his handlers can find a program that's willing to give him that shot, and he expresses enough contrition, completes some family therapy classes and counseling sessions to the satisfaction of that program's administration, and also shows some personal growth and maturity (responsibility and integrity), he could very well surface again. Probably at a small NAIA or Division 3 school coaching the men.

Look at the Greg Hardy (Dallas Cowboys) scenario. He was toxic/damaged goods to the 10th power. The consensus was that no team in the NFL would sign him. Wrong. Enter good 'ol Jerry Jones. He signed him in spite of his past, the allegations, in spite of a yet undetermined league suspension that had to be served, and in spite of public opinion. It was reported that there was at least one other team that was also looking into the possibility of signing Hardy. I could name many others, but I think you get my point. Perhaps Tyler will find an AD who has walked a mile in his shoes, and feels like it may be time to repay a debt (a chance) that someone extended to him years ago.

All it takes is one person to allow him to re-enter the coaching world. In 2-3 years, perhaps someone will give him that chance, if Tyler feel he's ready to get back into coaching. When that time comes, I doubt it will be for a women's team. Rocky, I know you may not agree, but I can see this happening down the road. Human nature and compassion dictates that people deserve an second chance. I'm not advocating he get a second chance. I don't care about Tyler one way or another. He's not the first person in a coveted /responsible /high profile/ position at a public institution to make a serious mistake in judgement. We have some elected public officials doing the same thing and worse everyday, and they're mature responsible 30-80 years olds. But that's a discussion for another board at another time. This is news because his is a high profile individual. If it was you or me, this would have flown way under the radar. I'm not giving him a pass, or making excuses for him. He's his own man. He can speak for himself. He listened to the music, now its time to pay the piper. I'm just responding to your comment.

 

[UcMiami]

Tyler and his "other woman" are adults who knew exactly what they were doing. He was getting what he wanted; she had her hold on a rich young man, and everyone else be damned. Why should anyone waste time feeling badly for those two? All of us were young once. Most of us did some stupid things. But most of us set moral limits on our stupidity.

So many assumptions in this statement.
Take intimate relationships out of it, an adult who loses their life savings to a fraudster is completely responsible for their own poverty because they were 'old enough to know better.' And a successful conman is just giving their victim what they wanted.
The world is full of innocents who fall victim to predators and age has little to do with it.
I am certainly not saying that is the case here, but to assume it is not is quite a leap given the difference in responsibilities inherent in their positions even if the difference in age is not that great.

 

[NewCorn]

So many assumptions in this statement.
Take intimate relationships out of it, an adult who loses their life savings to a fraudster is completely responsible for their own poverty because they were 'old enough to know better.' And a successful conman is just giving their victim what they wanted.
The world is full of innocents who fall victim to predators and age has little to do with it.
I am certainly not saying that is the case here, but to assume it is not is quite a leap given the difference in responsibilities inherent in their positions even if the difference in age is not that great.

"The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves, dear Brutus."

 

[Waquoit]

Getting pregnant was her choice wasn't it?

Down the line is an infinite length of time...There is always a sympathetic GM or AD somewhere that will give people like Tyler a second chance.

Maybe but he is a male coach who was schtupping a female player. An AD may give him a shot but no way that decision survives the resulting merdestorm.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

There's a belief that a person deserves a "second chance".

Carnac, I agree with you except when it comes to schools and kids, and rapists, serial killers, cop killers, Bernie Madoff, John Wilkes Booth etc etc etc. Let the punishment fit the crime.

 

[Wally East]

Getting pregnant was her choice wasn't it?

Was it? How do you know?

 

[intlzncster]

Carnac, I agree with you except when it comes to schools and kids, and rapists, serial killers, cop killers, Bernie Madoff, John Wilkes Booth etc etc etc. Let the punishment fit the crime.

You can't honestly be comparing all those scenarios to this one though. Not sure what you meant by "schools and kids".

This was a fireable offense to be sure, but a crime against humanity and jail time?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

You can't honestly be comparing all those scenarios to this one though. Not sure what you meant by "schools and kids".

This was a fireable offense to be sure, but a crime against humanity and jail time?

I'm certainly not equating them, but I am suggesting that Summit's transgression is one that leaves no you second chance to repeat it. What AD in her/his right mind says sign me up for that! "Crime against humanity"...you gotta count those cups of coffee intlzncster.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm certainly not equating them, but I am suggesting that Summit's transgression is one that leaves no you second chance to repeat it. What AD in her/his right mind says sign me up for that! "Crime against humanity"...you gotta count those cups of coffee intlzncster.

'Crime against humanity' was a catch all I was using for those other offenses (rape, murder, large scale embezzlement/larceny, etc) you mentioned. Just making a distinction.

I'm not sure he doesn't deserve a second chance in the long run. Might never been in the Women's game again though. Say in 20 years, when he's 45, he's spent the interim period coaching his son's youth league, then high school team or AAU. If he's been successful, and his private life has been sound, I don't see why he wouldn't get a shot as a Mens assistant or HC at a small uni. Even a WCBB assistant, provided he shows, for lack of a better term, 'rehabilitation'.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

provided he shows, for lack of a better term, 'rehabilitation'.

That boils down to not getting caught again. Yeah, let's start his rehab in a youth program. I'm sure the moms will bring oranges!

 

[intlzncster]

That boils down to not getting caught again. Yeah, let's start his rehab in a youth program. I'm sure the moms will bring oranges!

Come on man, this infraction doesn't mean he' a pedophile either. Teaching kids would be a good way for him to get back in the game eventually.

 

[CL82]

Come on man, this infraction doesn't mean he' a pedophile either. Teaching kids would be a good way for him to get back in the game eventually.

I'd be stunned, if that happened. Absolutely stunned. Perhaps, less so if he actually was successful as a coach, though.