What Muffet McGraw Did... or Didn't Do

[lne001]

Uh oh, looks like it was my sarcastic post that was taken down. In today's vernacular, "My Bad."

In my defense, however, I would like to point out that I had come directly to this board after an hour on the 'Cess Pool'. That can cause anyone to go off the tracks.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Uh oh, looks like it was my sarcastic post that was taken down. In today's vernacular, "My Bad."

In my defense, however, I would like to point out that I had come directly to this board after an hour on the 'Cess Pool'. That can cause anyone to go off the tracks.

Been there, done that. Used the Trump card.

 

[Phillyconn]

Oh sure, just like Calipari was derided by the idiots on the men's board for not fouling all over the place in the last minute with UConn having gone perfect at the FT line during the game. Sure, makes perfect sense.

Maybe Muffett was hoping to be happy with a strategy that her team could get some givebacks from UConn (which she got), and that her team would make some shots (which they didn't). We don't have to go into all the dumb stuff that's said on the men's boards to ridicule a WCBB coach.

Look, I realize that the hatred of Husky fans for Muffett generally runs from somewhere between extreme to more extreme, but it's a little pathetic to keep smearing her just because she won a bunch of games against UConn and ND has been its chief rival recently.

The Crackbrain Guide to Basketball Logic

Situation 1: Coach tells team not to foul down by 10 with 1:30 left, and they and their opponent miss all their remaining shots and the team loses by 10. Verdict: coach is a quitter and loser.

Situation 2: Coach tells team not to foul down by 10 with 1:30 left, and they go 3-5 on threes and their opponent miss all their remaining shots and the team loses by 1. Verdict: coach is a quitter and loser even if her strategy almost worked.

Situation 3: Coach tells team not to foul down by 10 with 1:30 left, and her team makes 4 threes while the opponent turns it over or misses all their remaining shots and the team wins by 2. Verdict: coach is still a quitter and loser even if her team won because she refused to do the "only thing you can do in that situation."

Situation 4: Coach tells team to foul every chance down by 10 with 1:30 left, and her team makes 4 threes while the opponent shoots their expected 75% by nailing 6 of 8 and the team loses by 4. Verdict: coach is really a winner because she did the "only thing you can do in that situation."

Situation 5 (the poor outcome for the foul method): Coach tells team to foul every chance down by 10 with 1:30 left, and her team only can hit 1-8 against the perimeter pressure defense on threes while the opponent shoots their expected 75% by nailing 12 of 16 and the team loses by 19. Verdict: again, coach is really a winner because she did the "only thing you can do in that situation."

Situation 6 (the generally normal one for the foul method): Coach tells team to foul every chance down by 10 with 1:30 left, and her team makes their standard 33% while shooting 2-6 on threes while the opponent shoots their expected 75% by nailing 9 of 12 and the team loses by 13. Verdict: once again, coach is really a winner because she did the "only thing you can do in that situation."

Situation 7 (that fantasy choker situation): Coach tells team to foul every chance down by 10 with 1:30 left, and her team goes 4-8 on threes while the opponent misses every FT and the team wins by 2. Verdict: That's the way it always happens in my PlayStation NBA basketball games, even against the best teams, so of course the coach did the right thing.

Again, November can't come soon enough.

Nothing wrong with bashing Calipari or McGraw. I hate both. I love to see the look on their faces when the clock hit zero, and another loss to UConn is in the books.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Nothing wrong with bashing Calipari or McGraw. I hate both. I love to see the look on their faces when the clock hit zero, and another loss to UConn is in the books.

Well you've certainly come to the right place then, as Muffet squashing is a much loved pastime on the BY, and I certainly have done my share. But again, still think it's best to do it for good and accurate reasons. Doing the stupid stuff just makes BYers seem like a lot of posters on other sites who have been cited here for being just plain ignorant and bilious.

 

[Phillyconn]

Well you've certainly come to the right place then, as Muffet squashing is a much loved pastime on the BY, and I certainly have done my share. But again, still think it's best to do it for good and accurate reasons. Doing the stupid stuff just makes BYers seem like a lot of posters on other sites who have been cited here for being just plain ignorant and bilious.

I didn't read every post in this thread. From what I did read, I didn't find anything ignorant or bilious. Say what you will about X's and O's and the different strategies used at the end of games. Muffet, had a look of utter defeat, on her face, at the end of the game. She knew that the dream was over. I love it! Because, I remember the look on her face when ND beat us in the BE finals. I remember Skylar's antics, at the end of the game, basically saying, screw UConn. So, to the victors, goes the spoils, and the Muffett bashing.

 

[Goodgood]

Geno's face was the same when ND beat UConn multiple times. It is not fun to lose. Specially when that was the end of Maya Moore's collegiate career.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I didn't read every post in this thread. From what I did read, I didn't find anything ignorant or bilious. Say what you will about X's and O's and the different strategies used at the end of games. Muffet, had a look of utter defeat, on her face, at the end of the game. She knew that the dream was over. I love it! Because, I remember the look on her face when ND beat us in the BE finals. I remember Skylar's antics, at the end of the game, basically saying, screw UConn. So, to the victors, goes the spoils, and the Muffett bashing.

Sure mindless vengeance bashing can be sweet I guess. I've just seen too much clueless stuff about Geno on other boards including ND's to go all happy jack by calling an opponent's coach a quitter, but sure, however you want to get your jollies. At least ND still wants to play UConn, and if it really bothers you that opponents celebrate on the rare occasions when UConn gets beat, at least you picked the right team to root for that will keep you from getting stressed out too much. Ignorance is in the mind of the beholder, and I trust that both the UConn and ND fans are happy that their team's coaches are not members of the fantasy strategy forum leagues.

 

[CocoHusky]

While I will agree that some bashing can be perceived as bilious especially when it is mindless, I fail to see how questioning the use of a coach’s specific tactic (fouling) can be perceived as labeling that coach a quitter.

 

[meyers7]

While I will agree that some bashing can be perceived as bilious especially when it is mindless, I fail to see how questioning the use of a coach’s specific tactic (fouling) can be perceived as labeling that coach a quitter.

Well there were a few posters who did say she quit, gave up, threw in the towel.

 

[DobbsRover2]

While I will agree that some bashing can be perceived as bilious especially when it is mindless, I fail to see how questioning the use of a coach’s specific tactic (fouling) can be perceived as labeling that coach a quitter.

Um yes, the thread started as a reasonable discussion of a rival coach's tactics, but by the first page the description for some had become "throw in the towel" and then to "didn't try at all" and "gave up" and "quitter." Look, I know the coaches of UConn's top rivals are fair game for the worst type of diatribes, be they Walz, Staley, Stringer, Mulkey, McGraw, and many others from the past. Personally, I have a deep antipathy for only one (ex-)coach, and even for her I have a deep respect and just like to let her actions speak for themselves. You can of course selectively read the posts in a thread (or even leave yourself a big out by saying "I didn't read all of them"), but having read such baseless and stupid stuff about Geno on other boards, it feels a little repulsive to me when the BY stuff starts going that same way on other coaches. That's just me though, and any UConn fan who hates McGraw for past actions is likely going to dig into the chamber pot for some projectiles.

And again, Geno's tactics at the end of some big losses have been even less aggressive than what Muffet did in the 2015 NC, so throwing brown stinky stuff into the wind that comes back to cover your face doesn't seem the right way to go.

 

[Phillyconn]

Well there were a few posters who did say she quit, gave up, threw in the towel.

What's wrong with throwing in the towel?

 

[Phillyconn]

Um yes, the thread started as a reasonable discussion of a rival coach's tactics, but by the first page the description for some had become "throw in the towel" and then to "didn't try at all" and "gave up" and "quitter." Look, I know the coaches of UConn's top rivals are fair game for the worst type of diatribes, be they Walz, Staley, Stringer, Mulkey, McGraw, and many others from the past. Personally, I have a deep antipathy for only one (ex-)coach, and even for her I have a deep respect and just like to let her actions speak for themselves. You can of course selectively read the posts in a thread (or even leave yourself a big out by saying "I didn't read all of them"), but having read such baseless and stupid stuff about Geno on other boards, it feels a little repulsive to me when the BY stuff starts going that same way on other coaches. That's just me though, and any UConn fan who hates McGraw for past actions is likely going to dig into the chamber pot for some projectiles.

And again, Geno's tactics at the end of some big losses have been even less aggressive than what Muffet did in the 2015 NC, so throwing brown stinky stuff into the wind that comes back to cover your face doesn't seem the right way to go.

I don't need an out. I didn't find anything that was said in this thread "tasteless" or "mindless". What's wrong with saying she "gave up"? Or that she "threw in the towel". Quite mild, compared to what I've heard on other boards about Geno.

IMHO, Notre Dame should have fouled. Sure, they missed some 3's, but somebody could've gotten hot. What if, UConn misses a few free throws and starts to feel pressure? There is absolutely, nothing wrong, with saying that she "threw in the towel" or "quit" or " gave up". Because, by not fouling, imho, that's exactly what she did.

 

[Phillyconn]

Sure mindless vengeance bashing can be sweet I guess. I've just seen too much clueless stuff about Geno on other boards including ND's to go all happy jack by calling an opponent's coach a quitter, but sure, however you want to get your jollies. At least ND still wants to play UConn, and if it really bothers you that opponents celebrate on the rare occasions when UConn gets beat, at least you picked the right team to root for that will keep you from getting stressed out too much. Ignorance is in the mind of the beholder, and I trust that both the UConn and ND fans are happy that their team's coaches are not members of the fantasy strategy forum leagues.

 

[Phillyconn]

Sure mindless vengeance bashing can be sweet I guess. I've just seen too much clueless stuff about Geno on other boards including ND's to go all happy jack by calling an opponent's coach a quitter, but sure, however you want to get your jollies. At least ND still wants to play UConn, and if it really bothers you that opponents celebrate on the rare occasions when UConn gets beat, at least you picked the right team to root for that will keep you from getting stressed out too much. Ignorance is in the mind of the beholder, and I trust that both the UConn and ND fans are happy that their team's coaches are not members of the fantasy strategy forum leagues.

Again, I don't see the "mindless vengeance bashing that you're referring to. I've heard coaches called a lot worse than "quitter". Are you a Muffet lover? This is UConn country.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Again, I don't see the "mindless vengeance bashing that you're referring to. I've heard coaches called a lot worse than "quitter". Are you a Muffet lover? This is UConn country.

Naw, I'm more of a Geno admirer, and since on occasion he has done even less against ND than Muffet did last April in the NC game, I just think purported UConn fans like you who throw the quitter name on her could also pinning it on him. This what you appear to have just said:

IYHO, UConn should have fouled and not put the reserves in. Sure, they missed some shots, but somebody could've gotten hot. What if, ND misses a few free throws and starts to feel pressure? There is absolutely, nothing wrong, with saying that he "threw in the towel" or "quit" or " gave up". Because, by not fouling, iyho, that's exactly what he did. (Feb 27, 2012 in front of the ND fans.) ---Slight paraphrase of words from the horse's mouth.

So by all means say whatever you want about Geno's and Muffet's coaching methods. They care squat about that, and with good reason.

 

[Bestiarius]

The only coach the adjective bilious is perfect to be paired with is Laimbeer.

 

[Kibitzer]

I don't think they had any misconceptions that they could have pulled it out. It would seem some here aren't quite dealing with reality.

Correct.

Poor Muffet was confronted with a choice comparable to choosing between a Chinese water torture or drowning.

I believe the term for that sort of a hopeless predicament is a "Hobson's choice."

 

[meyers7]

Correct.

Poor Muffet was confronted with a choice comparable to choosing between a Chinese water torture or drowning.

I believe the term for that sort of a hopeless predicament is a "Hobson's choice."

Ahem.

I don't believe that's what a "Hobson's Choice" is. Least what I know about Tommy.

noun
1.
the choice of taking what is offered or nothing at all


Word Origin

C16: named after Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), English liveryman who gave his customers no choice but had them take the nearest horse

Still, though, better than Sophie's Choice.

 

[Kibitzer]

Ahem.

I don't believe that's what a "Hobson's Choice" is. Least what I know about Tommy.

noun
1.
the choice of taking what is offered or nothing at all


Word Origin

C16: named after Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), English liveryman who gave his customers no choice but had them take the nearest horse

Still, though, better than Sophie's Choice.

Good catch. I chose a different definition of Hobson's choice: "The necessity of choosing between two or more equally objectionable alternatives." (Merriam-Webster)

Put another way, no choice at all. Remember Henry Ford's sales pitch?

"You can buy a Model-T in any color you want, as long as it's black."​

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A thread that beats a topic to death and then more than doubles its length with a bibliographic self-study! Sorta like a game of hoops with no hoops. Still, in all, it does keep the knives sharp for when real play begins.

 

[arty155]

... stay UConn, my friends

 

[meyers7]

Good catch. I chose a different definition of Hobson's choice: "The necessity of choosing between two or more equally objectionable alternatives." (Merriam-Webster)

Put another way, no choice at all. Remember Henry Ford's sales pitch?

"You can buy a Model-T in any color you want, as long as it's black."​

Yea, that's more like what I remember. This or nothing.

 

[Orangutan]

Arty, that is classic.

 

[HGN]

Whether she did something or not , I hope that if faced with the same situation again against the Huskies that she does the same thing...............Resulting in the same outcome of course.

 

[Phillyconn]

Naw, I'm more of a Geno admirer, and since on occasion he has done even less against ND than Muffet did last April in the NC game, I just think purported UConn fans like you who throw the quitter name on her could also pinning it on him. This what you appear to have just said:

IYHO, UConn should have fouled and not put the reserves in. Sure, they missed some shots, but somebody could've gotten hot. What if, ND misses a few free throws and starts to feel pressure? There is absolutely, nothing wrong, with saying that he "threw in the towel" or "quit" or " gave up". Because, by not fouling, iyho, that's exactly what he did. (Feb 27, 2012 in front of the ND fans.) ---Slight paraphrase of words from the horse's mouth.

So by all means say whatever you want about Geno's and Muffet's coaching methods. They care squat about that, and with good reason.

Don't remember how much we were down, or exactly what the circumstances were, don't care either. I probably couldn't bear to watch UConn lose. Maybe, on ND's message board, they called Geno names like that. That is their prerogative, as ND fans, to do so. Don't blame them, if they did. But this is UConn's board, so, I'm biased. Geno has how many NC? How many does Muffett have? What was at stake? We're talking NC here, not BE championship. Which Geno could care less about. We count National Championships, not BE. I'm sure if it was a NC game, Geno would have fouled. You wanna label Geno? Label him "Winner", not "quitter". Or, join our enemies.

 

[lne001]

We're talking NC here, not BE championship. Which Geno could care less about.

I agree, which leads me to 2003 and the Big East championship game against Villanova.

After winning 55 straight games, Uconn dropped that contest. I thought at the time and since that Geno coached a very strange game that day, showing little of his fire. I am not saying that he lost it on purpose, but I did not feel that he was terribly upset.

Six games later they won the National Championship.

 

[j66kicker]

I agree, which leads me to 2003 and the Big East championship game against Villanova.

After winning 55 straight games, Uconn dropped that contest. I thought at the time and since that Geno coached a very strange game that day, showing little of his fire. I am not saying that he lost it on purpose, but I did not feel that he was terribly upset.

Well I was there and I WAS upset! (but I got over it 6 games later )

 

[Gus Mahler]

The only coach the adjective bilious is perfect to be paired with is Laimbeer.

Bilious and supercilious.

 

[PhillyCoach]

Whether she did something or not , I hope that if faced with the same situation again against the Huskies that she does the same thing.....Resulting in the same outcome of course.

HGN - I am right with you. Cause if she doesn't do much, then nothing much can happen. I was glad when she didn't foul because there is always a chance (a long shot many times) that a team can come back.

 

[PhillyCoach]

Naw, I'm more of a Geno admirer, and since on occasion he has done even less against ND than Muffet did last April in the NC game, I just think purported UConn fans like you who throw the quitter name on her could also pinning it on him. This what you appear to have just said:

IYHO, UConn should have fouled and not put the reserves in. Sure, they missed some shots, but somebody could've gotten hot. What if, ND misses a few free throws and starts to feel pressure? There is absolutely, nothing wrong, with saying that he "threw in the towel" or "quit" or " gave up". Because, by not fouling, iyho, that's exactly what he did. (Feb 27, 2012 in front of the ND fans.) ---Slight paraphrase of words from the horse's mouth.

So by all means say whatever you want about Geno's and Muffet's coaching methods. They care squat about that, and with good reason.

Yo Dobbs - There are other "methods to the madness" of Feb.27, 2012--other than quitting on a losing game. Since it was a game with 5 weeks before NCAAs Geno pulled a psychological ploy of pulling his starters and putting in the subs. He was sending a message to his players. He had that luxury since it was not the NC game. What was the ploy? Only Geno knows.