What is wrong with the offense?

[Rico444]

Thanks for the response. I should be more succinct in my question which ultimately is; Why no contact on these phantom screens. Without contact, there is no disruption of the defense.

Even if there's no contact, altering the defender's path to his man is beneficial.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Very enjoyable string

 

[HuskyHawk]

Lots of good comments in here so far. I agree with a lot of it.

Calhoun rarely ran what I’d consider pretty offense. Beautiful offense is what we used to see out of Princeton and still see on occasion from some high major clubs. I watch enough KU games to know that Self runs some nice offense at times. It is largely a system designed to beat defenses without having superior athletic talent. We see other teams run it against us often enough.

I think our problems stem from several factors.

• Carlton is slow, can’t jump and is an old school back to the basket center. Nothing in Hurley’s offense is designed around such a player. So we either waste him and don‘t feed him (UNH) or we change the offense and feed him often.
• Lack of motion. Our players have a tendency to stand around and stop moving. They especially do this when we are focused on feeding Josh the ball. Our weave is ineffective and our high ball screen never turns into a pick and roll. Our screeners leave too early and roll too slowly.
• Our two most dynamic players are freshmen and both are deferential.
• Our PG and senior SG are not shooting as well as they can and too often must make something happen late in the shot clock because nobody else has made themselves available for a productive pass.

There is no easy solution. In general I think we need to overload the interior when we are trying to use Carlton. Post Akok on the opposite side and force the defense to collapse hard. It will take three guys to guard those two down low. We will get either inside layups or open looks from 3. Dribble penetration cannot be the go to with Josh on the court. With Josh out, I think we spread the floor, attack the rim and look for kick outs or cutters to the basket. It’s probably what DH wants to run. Like Nova of a few years ago.

 

[intlzncster]

Lots of good comments in here so far. I agree with a lot of it.

Calhoun rarely ran what I’d consider pretty offense. Beautiful offense is what we used to see out of Princeton and still see on occasion from some high major clubs. I watch enough KU games to know that Self runs some nice offense at times. It is largely a system designed to beat defenses without having superior athletic talent. We see other teams run it against us often enough.

I think our problems stem from several factors.

• Carlton is slow, can’t jump and is an old school back to the basket center. Nothing in Hurley’s offense is designed around such a player. So we either waste him and don‘t feed him (UNH) or we change the offense and feed him often.
• Lack of motion. Our players have a tendency to stand around and stop moving. They especially do this when we are focused on feeding Josh the ball. Our weave is ineffective and our high ball screen never turns into a pick and roll. Our screeners leave too early and roll too slowly.
• Our two most dynamic players are freshmen and both are deferential.
• Our PG and senior SG are not shooting as well as they can and too often must make something happen late in the shot clock because nobody else has made themselves available for a productive pass.

There is no easy solution. In general I think we need to overload the interior when we are trying to use Carlton. Post Akok on the opposite side and force the defense to collapse hard. It will take three guys to guard those two down low. We will get either inside layups or open looks from 3. Dribble penetration cannot be the go to with Josh on the court. With Josh out, I think we spread the floor, attack the rim and look for kick outs or cutters to the basket. It’s probably what DH wants to run. Like Nova of a few years ago.

I just want to reiterate to points that dovetail into your analysis:

1. We have few good ball handlers
2. We have few good passers

 

[ctchamps]

I just want to reiterate to points that dovetail into your analysis:

1. We have few good ball handlers
2. We have few good passers

Maybe Paige Buekers could play for both the men’s and women’s team next year.

Duck’s for cover from “the women’s game is not the same as the men’s game” crowd.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I just want to reiterate to points that dovetail into your analysis:

1. We have few good ball handlers
2. We have few good passers

True. Vital is sub-par at both for a SG. Polley is sub par at both for a SF. So is Sid. Adams is ok but not a plus ball handler or passer. AG is solid in both areas and so is Gaffney. Akok is a pretty good passer.

With our starters on the floor, feeding the post is our most effective approach. Our best lineup for playing Jay Wright style is Akok at 5, Adams at 3, Bouk at 2, AG or Gaffney at 1 and Polley at 4 or even Sid. Often we saw Frankenstein lineups that were bad at both things. The IU game was a perfect example.

 

[RayRay]

Very interesting analytics, thank you. This entire time I'm thinking we need to sit either Vital or Polley to get Bouk more minutes, but between sitting Sid entirely and opening up minutes, and now this, I think bringing Carleton off the bench against the right opponent is the key. NJIT starts 3 guards and 2 forwards 6"8 and 6"9. This is the perfect game to experiment with what worked so well in the 2nd half vs UNH and start 5-Akok 4-Polley 3/2- Bouk and Vital 1-AG.

Gaurantee if we had started this lineup vs St.Joes, we never get far enough behind to lose that game even with their hot shooting.

 

[businesslawyer]

True. Vital is sub-par at both for a SG. Polley is sub par at both for a SF. So is Sid. Adams is ok but not a plus ball handler or passer. AG is solid in both areas and so is Gaffney. Akok is a pretty good passer.

With our starters on the floor, feeding the post is our most effective approach. Our best lineup for playing Jay Wright style is Akok at 5, Adams at 3, Bouk at 2, AG or Gaffney at 1 and Polley at 4 or even Sid. Often we saw Frankenstein lineups that were bad at both things. The IU game was a perfect example.

We saw Akok play the 5 for a few minutes against New Hampshire. That is a long way from thinking he can cover an AAC 5 with some bulk. But I agree with you that if he could, you could then run a 'Nova style offense effectively.

Carlton is going to be our guy at least this year. The offense has to start with him either drawing double teams or scoring. We know from last year that if they are taking good 3s -- like they did when J. Adams had to be doubleteamed -- both Gilbert and Vital can hit them. Goodness knows Polley can, and Akok can as well. Whether it's DH's preferred offense or not, we have to get better at it because dribble drives with undersized guards and Carlton being stuck in the low block isn't going to work (as we see again and again).

 

[businesslawyer]

Very interesting analytics, thank you. This entire time I'm thinking we need to sit either Vital or Polley to get Bouk more minutes, but between sitting Sid entirely and opening up minutes, and now this, I think bringing Carleton off the bench against the right opponent is the key. NJIT starts 3 guards and 2 forwards 6"8 and 6"9. This is the perfect game to experiment with what worked so well in the 2nd half vs UNH and start 5-Akok 4-Polley 3/2- Bouk and Vital 1-AG.

The problem with experimenting with it is if it works, so what? Akok does not have the bulk to play the 5 defensively against better and stronger teams.

 

[RayRay]

The problem with experimenting with it is if it works, so what? Akok does not have the bulk to play the 5 defensively against better and stronger teams.

I agree here. Maybe we have to become a team that switches between these 2 lineups depending on the opponent. It would be pretty easy to switch up mid game or even after a bad first few minutes if necessary.

 

[businesslawyer]

I agree here. Maybe we have to become a team that switches between these 2 lineups depending on the opponent. It would be pretty easy to switch up mid game or even after a bad first few minutes if necessary.

We don't need the smaller lineup to beat New Jersey Tech. If we do, we're not going anywhere anyway.

Might there be a stretch in some game where you try to get Akok minutes at the 5? Absolutely. But this team isn't going to the NCAAs without Carlton being the Carlton who played against Indiana, or down the stretch in the AAC schedule last year. Pulling him in and out of the starting lineup isn't the way to get there. Abandoning getting him the ball as he moves from the high post to the low post and working harder at getting him the ball from good angles as he establishes himself in the low post is.

Unless someone wants to give up on this year and start planning for how we might utilize Akok with 20 more pounds of muscle next year. Assuming, of course, his body is capable of taking the weight and he doesn't go pro after one year.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

One of the things I'd like to see more are screens away from the ball. Use the shooters, like Polley, away from the ball to screen and then pop off the screen looking to shoot. Big to big screens inside can free a post player and/or create mismatches, if the guard recognizes and finds the open guy quickly. We seem to do 95% ball screens, and defense works hard to prepare for those.

 

[RayRay]

We don't need the smaller lineup to beat New Jersey Tech. If we do, we're not going anywhere anyway.

Might there be a stretch in some game where you try to get Akok minutes at the 5? Absolutely. But this team isn't going to the NCAAs without Carlton being the Carlton who played against Indiana, or down the stretch in the AAC schedule last year. Pulling him in and out of the starting lineup isn't the way to get there. Abandoning getting him the ball as he moves from the high post to the low post and working harder at getting him the ball from good angles as he establishes himself in the low post is.

Unless someone wants to give up on this year and start planning for how we might utilize Akok with 20 more pounds of muscle next year. Assuming, of course, his body is capable of taking the weight and he doesn't go pro after one year.

Ok, hold up. I never said we needed the smaller lineup to beat NJIT LOL. I just said it would be a good game to continue to experiment with it. Also, I happen to agree we need Carlton to have a chance at big success this year, however, we get ourselves into big trouble with Carlton on the floor vs teams that have 4 or 5 guys that can all shoot. So theres nothing wrong with changing up the lineup against certain teams if you know Carlton will be a massive liability on defense in those games.

 

[hardcorehusky]

There are multiple issues:

1. We have what I call Frankenstein players at the moment. Take Polley's jumper and mix it with Sid's stuff around the basket and you have a really good 3. Take Carlton's game and mix it with Whalley and you have an effective 5. Due to the player limitations, we aren't good at getting off good shots in one on one situations. AG and Vital do not have a mid range game so it is either a 3 or drive all the way to the hoop. Jaylen Adams was able to get to where he wanted without the benefit of a knockdown jumper. Bouknight is the only guy who can do that and he is a freshman and not ready.

2. If you don't have breakdown guys, then you need a) screen game. We don't set picks well but the guy using the screen doesn't get close enough to the screener to make it more effective. As stated before, lots of the screen action happens to far from the basket or not in a position to punish the defense. Or b) a 2 man game with pick and pop or pick and roll moves. Akok or Polley should be able to be part of this with the guards. Hopefully, DH will spread the floor a little to allow this on one side.

Better players can do more things on the court. This group is not good at free flowing basketball as the ball stops too many times. If Hurley can work on some 2 man games of 3 man games with some weak side rebounding, we can be effective in the half court.

 

[Giddyup5]

A lot of the replies have been about our personnel . I do not disagree. But Hurley needs to adjust his scheme to his players.

Why are our bigs handling the ball at the 3 point line when they never are in triple threat position? It’s so easy to defend when they are not a threat to ever shoot or dribble.

In the Indiana game he had vital run the point—again not putting him in a position to succeed.

Polley is shooting over 40% from three. I don’t care if he doesn’t do anything else. We have seen many collegiate players who are only 3 point shooter whose coach put them in position to get 5-7 looks a game.

The same sets for Polley can be ran for Vital and Bouk.

I just don’t understand what he is seeing that I am not.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

A lot of the replies have been about our personnel . I do not disagree. But Hurley needs to adjust his scheme to his players.

Why are our bigs handling the ball at the 3 point line when they never are in triple threat position? It’s so easy to defend when they are not a threat to ever shoot or dribble.

In the Indiana game he had vital run the point—again not putting him in a position to succeed.

Polley is shooting over 40% from three. I don’t care if he doesn’t do anything else. We have seen many collegiate players who are only 3 point shooter whose coach put them in position to get 5-7 looks a game.

The same sets for Polley can be ran for Vital and Bouk.

I just don’t understand what he is seeing that I am not.

You are right on all counts. Why is Carlton getting the ball above the 3 point line?

Cincinnati was over playing the passes, but we were never going backdoor on them.

Gilbert's shot selection is so terrible that Hurley should not be coaching college basketball if he is incapable of addressing it.

 

[Kenny11]

The big to big ball reversal 25 feet from the basket should not be part of any offense.

our halfcourt offense seems to be very close ball reversals at the top of the key that don’t move the defense at all.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Why are our bigs handling the ball at the 3 point line when they never are in triple threat position? It’s so easy to defend when they are not a threat to ever shoot or dribble.

I can’t answer that question. I do know that Hurley’s offense appears designed for individuals to generate their own offense, and the big is setting screens up high to open the drive for a guard. But that won’t work if the guy guarding the big can simply hedge on the dribbler.

Hurley needs to tailor his offense to the personnel, and so far he isn’t. Another puzzle is why Gilbert has so much trouble beating his guy. With his handle and quickness that should happen regularly.

Plus, we need more reliable shooters.

 

[Huskygamble19]

the very simple answer to your question is..We don't have any.

 

[kansashusky]

Lots of good comments in here so far. I agree with a lot of it.

Calhoun rarely ran what I’d consider pretty offense. Beautiful offense is what we used to see out of Princeton and still see on occasion from some high major clubs. I watch enough KU games to know that Self runs some nice offense at times. It is largely a system designed to beat defenses without having superior athletic talent. We see other teams run it against us often enough.

I think our problems stem from several factors.

• Carlton is slow, can’t jump and is an old school back to the basket center. Nothing in Hurley’s offense is designed around such a player. So we either waste him and don‘t feed him (UNH) or we change the offense and feed him often.
• Lack of motion. Our players have a tendency to stand around and stop moving. They especially do this when we are focused on feeding Josh the ball. Our weave is ineffective and our high ball screen never turns into a pick and roll. Our screeners leave too early and roll too slowly.
• Our two most dynamic players are freshmen and both are deferential.
• Our PG and senior SG are not shooting as well as they can and too often must make something happen late in the shot clock because nobody else has made themselves available for a productive pass.

There is no easy solution. In general I think we need to overload the interior when we are trying to use Carlton. Post Akok on the opposite side and force the defense to collapse hard. It will take three guys to guard those two down low. We will get either inside layups or open looks from 3. Dribble penetration cannot be the go to with Josh on the court. With Josh out, I think we spread the floor, attack the rim and look for kick outs or cutters to the basket. It’s probably what DH wants to run. Like Nova of a few years ago.

I don't understand why not just put Carlton in the short corner? Space the floor and create lanes. He just clogs everything and isnt effective in the pick and roll.

 

[ConnEd]

AG beats guys off the dribble regularly. But he does it kind of slowly and very controlled which gives the D lots of time to rotate to him. I think that once he gets to the lane, he's first looking to shoot. He certainly ends up shooting (against a lot of resistance) most of the time. If he was blasting his way in, he might a little more of an opening to get a shot up as the defenders rotating to him wouldn't be there yet. But I think he also isn't understanding where the rotating defenders are coming from so that he doesn't know immediately where to go with the ball, or our guy who has had his defender rotate to AG is not moving into the open passing lane where AG can get him the ball. And given how good AG can look, I suspect it is a lot of the latter problem.

 

[BlueDogs]

Hurleys offense is just as impressive as Calhoun’s. Complex offense isn’t what wins in CBB. It’s defense, and talented upperclassmen that consistently win.

Good spacing and constant intentional movement create opportunities to score, not hanging out above the top of the key running high screens and shuffling bs k and forth. If you watch the rotation movement on the floor and spacing, it’s predictable and fairly static. The 3 has done more to dumb down creativity and create lazy offenses than anything.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't understand why not just put Carlton in the short corner? Space the floor and create lanes. He just clogs everything and isnt effective in the pick and roll.

So play 4 on 5? Carlton under the basket requires a defender and often two. Carlton 8 feet from the hoop can be completely ignored. Put every single player on the offensive side in positions where they must be defended. Sid is similarly misused, standing on the 3 point line. He's no threat, they don't guard him. Leave him on the edges of the lane, where he can shoot or one bounce dunk over anyone and he's a threat. Akok is a threat everywhere. So is Bouknight. Even Adams. AG is a threat outside, but he's not really inside so they play him tight outside hoping he'll get funneled to the bigs. Vital is a threat outside and so is Polley. Neither do much once they put it on the floor (CV is ok).

 

[kansashusky]

So play 4 on 5? Carlton under the basket requires a defender and often two. Carlton 8 feet from the hoop can be completely ignored. Put every single player on the offensive side in positions where they must be defended. Sid is similarly misused, standing on the 3 point line. He's no threat, they don't guard him. Leave him on the edges of the lane, where he can shoot or one bounce dunk over anyone and he's a threat. Akok is a threat everywhere. So is Bouknight. Even Adams. AG is a threat outside, but he's not really inside so they play him tight outside hoping he'll get funneled to the bigs. Vital is a threat outside and so is Polley. Neither do much once they put it on the floor (CV is ok).

The short corner is under the basket.