What is wrong with the offense?

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Figured I'd throw it out there to see what ya'll think. I have some my own ideas but won't share yet.

Let's leave CV and AGs early season troubles out of it. We have talked about that 100x.

Yesterday I saw a team that won because we were more talented at every position. Personally, what I saw Xs and Os-wise didn't wow me. Seems like we're scoring when plays break down or in transition much more than the half court.

What needs to change? Or does the team just need more reps.
 
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I don't think it's possible to respond fairly to this question if we're being instructed to leave Gilbert and Vital out of it. They're as much a reason for the struggling offense as anybody.
Probably worth noting that out of all of the main offensive contributors, Carlton has been the least efficient on the team overall now.

It’s impressive we haven’t been worse than we have been looking at Gilbert, Carlton, and Vital’s numbers so far.
 
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Figured I'd throw it out there to see what ya'll think. I have some my own ideas but won't share yet.

Let's leave CV and AGs early season troubles out of it. We have talked about that 100x.

Yesterday I saw a team that won because we were more talented at every position. Personally, what I saw Xs and Os-wise didn't wow me. Seems like we're scoring when plays break down or in transition much more than the half court.

What needs to change? Or does the team just need more reps.
It's a strange question to ask coming off what, in the second half, was the prettiest offense against a zone that we've played in years. With various players who looked like they could catch a pass and either hit a 12 footer or throw a pass getting the ball with room in the high post.

Having said that, our man offense is not as good as you'd want it to be. The primary reason is we don't really have a single player other than Bouknight with the combination of strength, size, quickness, ball handling or the ability to hit a 3 if not closely guarded to get their own shot off if the offense hasn't gotten them the ball either in a dangerous position or with room. That in turn has made Vital and Gilbert, as the last options if the offense doesn't produce anything, with little choice but to force the issue, which neither is good at. Other people being able to produce offense consistently one on one will make everything better. Carlton -- at times. Polley -- doesn't shoot enough to force double teams despite his accuracy. Bouknight -- hopefully more and more but disappeared for a few weeks. Akok -- when the confidence matches the skills.

This is not a questions about x's and o's not working. Individuals have to be able to either make a play or force a double team. Once the double teams come, watch Vital and Gilbert make more shots and find more room to drive.
 
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I don't think it's possible to respond fairly to this question if we're being instructed to leave Gilbert and Vital out of it. They're as much a reason for the struggling offense as anybody.
The Xs and Os look bad even when they are playing well when we play man defense.
 
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Figured I'd throw it out there to see what ya'll think. I have some my own ideas but won't share yet.

Let's leave CV and AGs early season troubles out of it. We have talked about that 100x.

Yesterday I saw a team that won because we were more talented at every position. Personally, what I saw Xs and Os-wise didn't wow me. Seems like we're scoring when plays break down or in transition much more than the half court.

What needs to change? Or does the team just need more reps.
This is a question for all of college basketball not just UConn.
 
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@champs99and04 and @BLUEDOGHOUSE are the most educated CBB fans on the board. They also had the most tempered expectations re. the Hurley hire. Because they watched a lot of URI unlike most everyone else. Bad Hurley offense is not a bug. I think eventually we will win a lot of games because we will have more talent than most of our opponents.
 
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Correct. I think kids are overcoached on offense, including on our team.
Vitale was harping on this a lot. I think it's likely true but the reigning national champions may be the most over coached program in the country. Vitale is also an idiot.
 
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@champs99and04 and @BLUEDOGHOUSE are the most educated CBB fans on the board. They also had the most tempered expectations re. the Hurley hire. Because they watched a lot of URI unlike most everyone else. Bad Hurley offense is not a bug. I think eventually we will win a lot of games because we will have more talent than most of our opponents.
Hurleys offense is just as impressive as Calhoun’s. Complex offense isn’t what wins in CBB. It’s defense, and talented upperclassmen that consistently win.
 
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The Xs and Os look bad even when they are playing well when we play man defense.
Hurley has never been an offensive genius. I raised these concerns when he was hired (he's never had a team finish in the top 50 of KenPom's adjusted offensive efficiency), but I thought at the time and still do that the culture changing and defensive prowess would make those offensive shortcomings worth it. And that better recruits would help, too.

Bouknight level talent WILL improve our offense sooner rather than later.

As for the actual x's and o's stuff, I'm not a coach, but our movement doesn't really create mismatches or open lanes. Defenders started going under Gilbert's Carlton high screen, too, which limits his ability to penetrate. He made them pay from deep last game, but his shot still looks a little shaky. I think we need to run Polley off more screens and then have options to take advantage of the panic it causes in the defenders.
 
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Hurley has never been an offensive genius. I raised these concerns when he was hired (he's never had a team finish in the top 50 of KenPom's adjusted offensive efficiency), but I thought at the time and still do that the culture changing and defensive prowess would make those offensive shortcomings worth it. And that better recruits would help, too.

Bouknight level talent WILL improve our offense sooner rather than later.

As for the actual x's and o's stuff, I'm not a coach, but our movement doesn't really create mismatches or open lanes. Defenders started going under Gilbert's Carlton high screen, too, which limits his ability to penetrate. He made them pay from deep last game, but his shot still looks a little shaky. I think we need to run Polley off more screens and then have options to take advantage of the panic it causes in the defenders.
You can count the number of college coaches who run markedly better offenses than Hurley on one hand. Everyone is running the same basic offensive and defensive sets. What sets you apart is the talent and defensive prowess.
 
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Gafney was the answer when they erased the 9 pt def. In the first half. When Gafney is making the 3 and penetrate and finishing our offense runs smooth.
Gafney finds open people in good places better than anybody.
 
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Hurley has never been an offensive genius. I raised these concerns when he was hired (he's never had a team finish in the top 50 of KenPom's adjusted offensive efficiency), but I thought at the time and still do that the culture changing and defensive prowess would make those offensive shortcomings worth it. And that better recruits would help, too.

Bouknight level talent WILL improve our offense sooner rather than later.

As for the actual x's and o's stuff, I'm not a coach, but our movement doesn't really create mismatches or open lanes. Defenders started going under Gilbert's Carlton high screen, too, which limits his ability to penetrate. He made them pay from deep last game, but his shot still looks a little shaky. I think we need to run Polley off more screens and then have options to take advantage of the panic it causes in the defenders.
If Coach K left Duke and went for huge money to Colgate tomorrow, I have two questions:

1. Would he be any worse as an x's and o's coach than he was the day before?

2. Would his team have a lower KenPom adjusted offensive efficiency?

If the answers are No and Yes, then why do you think you can tell me Hurley isn't an offensive genuis because he couldn't make the URI offense be one of the fiftiest best in the country?
 
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If Coach K left Duke and went for huge money to Colgate tomorrow, I have two questions:

1. Would he be any worse as an x's and o's coach than he was the day before?

2. Would his team have a lower KenPom adjusted offensive efficiency?

If the answers are No and Yes, then why do you think you can tell me Hurley isn't an offensive genuis because he couldn't make the URI offense be one of the fiftiest best in the country?
Yes, it's a fair point which is why I posted that Bouknight-like talent will improve our offense.

But you can't act like offensive geniuses do not exist. Coach K is pretty damn good, if not quite a genius innovator anymore (he was way early on the value of 3 point shot volume). Bob McKillop, Randy Bennett, Mark Few, Jay Wright, John Beilein, etc kill it with random talent and win national championships with good talent.
 
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Yes, it's a fair point which is why I posted that Bouknight-like talent will improve our offense.

But you can't act like offensive geniuses do not exist. Coach K is pretty damn good, if not quite a genius innovator anymore (he was way early on the value of 3 point shot volume). Bob McKillop, Randy Bennett, Mark Few, Jay Wright, John Beilein, etc kill it with random talent and win national championships with good talent.
I'm not telling you that DH is an offensive genius. Frankly, my guess is that if he was being honest with us he's more concerned about 40 minutes of pressure and adequate depth wearing an opponent down than he is with offensive efficiency. Just that telling me that with Rhody he couldn't get into the Top 50 of the KenPom is meaningless. Rhody didn't and isn't supposed to have Top 50 (or even close to that) talent.
 
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Follow-up question: how do we fix our handoffs? We're getting absolutely nothing out of them.

I'm not against pulling our big from the hoop to open up a drive, but right now it's just a clock waster.

I liked our horns set a few games back.
 

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Yes, it's a fair point which is why I posted that Bouknight-like talent will improve our offense.

But you can't act like offensive geniuses do not exist. Coach K is pretty damn good, if not quite a genius innovator anymore (he was way early on the value of 3 point shot volume). Bob McKillop, Randy Bennett, Mark Few, Jay Wright, John Beilein, etc kill it with random talent and win national championships with good talent.
idk about random talent. They're all getting guys drafted. That's talent. Virginia had 3 guys from that team drafted this year. Maybe random in that they are good at identifying.
 

intlzncster

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Follow-up question: how do we fix our handoffs? We're getting absolutely nothing out of them.

I'm not against pulling our big from the hoop to open up a drive, but right now it's just a clock waster.

I liked our horns set a few games back.
idk but in general, we don't have good passers nor guys who can handle. A lot of our struggles falls on the fact that our players have certain deficiencies that hamstring what you want to do. We ain't flexible.
 
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Follow-up question: how do we fix our handoffs? We're getting absolutely nothing out of them.

I'm not against pulling our big from the hoop to open up a drive, but right now it's just a clock waster.

I liked our horns set a few games back.
I liked the horns set too. It helped get us some good looks out of the high pick and roll and with Polley always floating on the perimeter anyway, I like him being in the corner where the defense might forget about him.
 
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Follow-up question: how do we fix our handoffs? We're getting absolutely nothing out of them.

I'm not against pulling our big from the hoop to open up a drive, but right now it's just a clock waster.

I liked our horns set a few games back.
I like the horns set better than the weave/big man flash and handoff and think we should run that more. However, they are both designed to do the same thing -- get the defense moving laterally to set up dribble penetration. This is what 90% of college offenses are designed to do. Why? Because nothing is more disruptive to a defense than dribble penetration. It forces defenders to help and rotate, which most college players aren't good at, which leads to kick-outs to shooters or feeds to big men or baseline cutters.

The problem in our man offense is two-fold. The first is that the hand-offs and exchanges are happening too far from the basket. That can be corrected but the game plan to defend us is to pressure the ball whether it's in the hands of a guard or a big and try to push us out further. The second is that we don't have many guys who can effectively penetrate. That makes us an easy scout. Pressure the ball, don't leave Polley, and swarm Carlton as soon as we try to feed it to him.

As for the history of Hurley's offense, I disagree that it was bad at URI. It wasn't a symphony of motion like John Beilein's or Lon Kruger's, but it looked like many offenses around the country. Lots of ball screens, with dribble penetration and kick-outs being the goal. The hand-off was not featured nearly as much as it has been with us. I think part of that is that he doesn't want Carlton running a high pick and roll as it's not his strength, and setting the high screen from another position can mess with spacing if Carlton is still on the low block.
 

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