What if... Moriah Jefferson

[Wally East]

Better at what????

Better at not winning rings

 

[Wally East]

3 v 2 becomes more reflective of teammates and competition than individual player, but zero vs any number for most people (and I include myself) makes a difference - just like say not winning major championships in golf is a huge black mark against the golfers who otherwise were superb.

Golf, obviously, is entirely different since it's an individual sport.

But, you're arguing that 3 vs 2 is the same but 0 vs 1 is entirely different? So Paige Sauer and Kelly Schumacher > Lisa Leslie?

 

[UcMiami]

Golf, obviously, is entirely different since it's an individual sport.

But, you're arguing that 3 vs 2 is the same but 0 vs 1 is entirely different? So Paige Sauer and Kelly Schumacher > Lisa Leslie?

Nope - Paige and Kelly didn't have the career stats to be in any conversation, just like Marie, and Annie, and Kalana, and Jessica, Swin, and any number of other great teammates on championship teams.

Lisa was phenomenal as a USA NT and pro - I never saw her in college and have never checked her stats, but assume she was there as well - as a pro she is certainly in the conversation as 'greatest ever' and she has the golds and championships to back that up. I don't hear her mentioned when people are talking about greatest WCBB players ever, or even greatest WCBB centers ever, but it may be because of the obscurity of most college players from that era in terms of national coverage. I would tend to think of Griner and Charles and I have heard Donovan (AIAW champ) in that discussion - I don't hear Kara mentioned though she has both a championship and some impressive stats. Fowles was a beast in college, but i don't hear her either perhaps because of no championships.

As an aside - the WNBA really has changed the perception of players and their post collegiate careers - Leslie's USA accomplishments were her only chance to shine until the WNBA came along.

 

[Phillyconn]

Passer, scorer, 3-point shooter, leader, clutch winner

Better passer? Debatable. Scorer? No way. Mo, can shoot the 3 and has a pull up equal to Sue, in terms of fg percentage. The difference is that Mo can get to the rim at will. How do you stop that? If needed Mo could average 20 pts easily. But we have the unstoppable BS and MT, not to mention KLS. It makes sense that scoring and assist averages are not as high as they could be, because Geno wants everybody to be able to pass and score. How does an opposing team stop 5 players, who can all pass the ball and score if needed. How can you argue against Mo, the pg who has 3 NCAA titles, with #4 in sight. Mo, is the total package. She's great at just about everything she does on the court. I will sorely miss Mo and BS. Two of our all time greats.

 

[Wally East]

I don't hear her mentioned when people are talking about greatest WCBB players ever, or even greatest WCBB centers ever

To put it gently, those people are ill-informed. She and Griner are/were different types of centers but they are the two best.

Also: Rebecca > Tina (check the per game stats instead of the career totals)

Okay, Ann Strother has two rings and was a big contributor on those teams. EDD has none. Is Ann better than EDD? (I keep poking at this because I'm just curious as to where the line is.)

 

[UcMiami]

To put it gently, those people are ill-informed. She and Griner are/were different types of centers but they are the two best.

Also: Rebecca > Tina (check the per game stats instead of the career totals)

Okay, Ann Strother has two rings and was a big contributor on those teams. EDD has none. Is Ann better than EDD? (I keep poking at this because I'm just curious as to where the line is.)

I posted those stats about Tina and Rebecca so I know - but I think Rebecca really excelled when she got to play Breanna's role more when Kara arrived than as a true center, similar to what Jackson played in Seattle - her stats were better her junior year, but the team was better with Kara.
EDD to me was sort of irrelevant as a college player in discussions of greatest - she was the only real talent on that team - I don't believe any of her teammates ever got a look at a professional career. She played mediocre competition and her team had mediocre success. She didn't make the NCAAs her first two years and got to the round of 32 as a junior and sweet sixteen as a senior. Could you recognize great talent, yes, but she isn't anywhere on a college basketball HOF list for me personally. Ann isn't either, but she was at least relevant in that she was integral to a team that did consistently win even after DT left playing much greater competition. Ann's worst team performed as well as EDD's best
We could have the same conversation about Courtney Vandersloot - who put up phenomenal numbers as a PG on a decent team in a weak conference - and isn't in my conversation for best college PGs.

And I will add that EDD never won a NPOY award in college. (Courtney won one Lieberman by the way.) So yearly, voters in her college years discounted her impact for the same reasons I think - she was very talented but not as relevant to the game as other players.

 

[hoophuskee]

Better passer? Debatable. Scorer? No way. Mo, can shoot the 3 and has a pull up equal to Sue, in terms of fg percentage. The difference is that Mo can get to the rim at will. How do you stop that? If needed Mo could average 20 pts easily. But we have the unstoppable BS and MT, not to mention KLS. It makes sense that scoring and assist averages are not as high as they could be, because Geno wants everybody to be able to pass and score. How does an opposing team stop 5 players, who can all pass the ball and score if needed. How can you argue against Mo, the pg who has 3 NCAA titles, with #4 in sight. Mo, is the total package. She's great at just about everything she does on the court. I will sorely miss Mo and BS. Two of our all time greats.

I think better scorer is debatable too. Bird could have averaged easily over 20 too. Bird had Sveta and Ralph along with playing alongside one of the greatest classes ever than also had DT. It also makes sense for Bird that her scoring and assists averages weren't as high as they could have been too because the ball would be in Sveta's, and Ralph's, and DT's ands quite a bit too along iwht having such talent inside. There was a reason why after 01-02 players went 1,2 4 and 6 in the draft.

I know it's hard to argue against Mo - but how can you argue against Bird too? Her frosh year she was hurt. Her jr year - UCONN lost two all-americans of which one was lost extremely late- finals of BET.

We're blessed to have seen both along with all the other obscenely great players. I'll probably put MoJeff number 1 after completion of this season. I'm holding off for now.

 

[UcMiami]

I think better scorer is debatable too. Bird could have averaged easily over 20 too. Bird had Sveta and Ralph along with playing alongside one of the greatest classes ever than also had DT. It also makes sense for Bird that her scoring and assists averages weren't as high as they could have been too because the ball would be in Sveta's, and Ralph's, and DT's ands quite a bit too along iwht having such talent inside. There was a reason why after 01-02 players went 1,2 4 and 6 in the draft.

The quality of teammates for both players was phenomenal - I'll see your Sveta and Shea and Williams, and Jones, and Cash, and DT with Stef and Bria and Morgan, and Breanna, and Kaleena, and Napheesa, and Lou and I suspect they will match up pretty closely in terms of WNBA draft as well. On injuries I can match Sveta with Morgan, but agree about Shea being the killer occurring so late in the season - Stef being able to tough out her leg and foot injuries was huge that first year.

 

[j66kicker]

Better passer? Debatable. Scorer? No way. Mo, can shoot the 3 and has a pull up equal to Sue, in terms of fg percentage. The difference is that Mo can get to the rim at will. How do you stop that? If needed Mo could average 20 pts easily. But we have the unstoppable BS and MT, not to mention KLS. It makes sense that scoring and assist averages are not as high as they could be, because Geno wants everybody to be able to pass and score. How does an opposing team stop 5 players, who can all pass the ball and score if needed. How can you argue against Mo, the pg who has 3 NCAA titles, with #4 in sight. Mo, is the total package. She's great at just about everything she does on the court. I will sorely miss Mo and BS. Two of our all time greats.

I will sorely miss Mo and BS too - great, great players. And, re. Sue vs Mo for UCONN PG GOAT - everyone can be happy. We choose up our teams - I get Sue and you get Moriah. (I think my team wins, but so do you - we'll never be able to settle that.... )

 

[hoophuskee]

The quality of teammates for both players was phenomenal - I'll see your Sveta and Shea and Williams, and Jones, and Cash, and DT with Stef and Bria and Morgan, and Breanna, and Kaleena, and Napheesa, and Lou and I suspect they will match up pretty closely in terms of WNBA draft as well. On injuries I can match Sveta with Morgan, but agree about Shea being the killer occurring so late in the season - Stef being able to tough out her leg and foot injuries was huge that first year.

Even tonight watching the blur that is MoJeff. What an amazing talent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One play in the 1tshalf- not much is going on with other players throwing around the ball against the zone, they pass to Mo late in the shot clock- it was like -- okay no one open I'll stp this nonsense and just stick the three!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OT-- years ago on men's side the injury to Rickey Moore killed them. And before that our injury to Shea in her frosh year . . .

 

[jimazee]

Great thread!

Many well thought out and researched posts. Having watched the Huskies for decades, it reminds me all the more how memories fade. It also highlights that rings, awards, statistics, teammates, injuries, opponents, leadership, and athleticism all contribute to the discussions and 'comparison' of GOAT PG. Lots of fun to read...good work by the Boneyard.

I'm still not pickin' (probably ever) ...love 'em both, and a bunch more. UConn BB has been very special as have many of its players.