What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[BlueMAB]

There are a number of branches on his tree

How many of them went on to be highly succesful head coaches?

How many ended up better off as assistants?

 

[upstater]

No, I'm not. That doesn't mean I have to pretend that the timing wasn't harmful to the program. Broken hip or not, every year he has made it very clear he (like Dean Smith) would wait until the fall to make his decision.

Whether it was this year, or 4 years from now, when he retired, it was going to be in the fall, he's made that well known for some time. He was never going to retire in April of any year.

Just to be clear, I'm not upset with JC for the timing. He earned the right to retire whenever he wanted to. I don't begrudge him anything. But the facts are the facts. The timing, no matter what year it happened, leaves the AD in a situation where he has no choice but to promote an assistant. That's as good a compromise as should be made.

This was not a careful choice the way it needed to be. JC guys have gone on to become head coaches elsewhere and have not exactly set the world on fire. I hope KO turns out to another HOF guy.

I wonder why people over at Syracuse aren't totally upset with Gross for signing off on Mike Hopkins. He must not have the balls to stand up to Jim Boeheim.

 

[upstater]

How many of them went on to be highly succesful head coaches?

How many ended up better off as assistants?

Did you do a study to see how many people go on to become highly successful at top schools. Most get fired. Kentucky went from Pitino to Calipari, wasted a decade in between and sold their souls in the process. Indiana, UCLA, ditto. on and on. Transitions aren't easy even when you hire top guns. Chances for failure are high.

Yet there are examples of good successions out there if you care to luck, like Tom Izzo.

I'm not one who thinks Hobbs did a bad job at GW at all. And Leitao had the best DePaul team of the last two decades. Some jobs suck.

 

[bertieboy]

I really like Kevin Ollie and I enjoyed his speech a great deal. I hope, and believe, that he will be a huge success.

If he was Calhoun's choice then we have to respect that. Calhoun really knows what he is doing.

There are some things I don't like about this. I don't like Calhoun backing the university into a corner so that his choice would prevail. JC retiring in September rather than April is part of this. I don't like the one season contract for Ollie. He should have gotten 4 or 5 years with a minimal buy out. Warde did not use good judgement here.

 

[BlueMAB]

I wonder why people over at Syracuse aren't totally upset with Gross for signing off on Mike Hopkins. He must not have the balls to stand up to Jim Boeheim.

I'm not sure what your point is. Gross made a decision, and until Hopkins has the chance to do the job, nobody knows how that will turn out.

Gross agreed to sign off on Hopkins. Manuel had no choice based on the timing. It's been obvious for some time that Calhoun wanted KO. If Manuel wanted KO he could have signed off on it at any time, but he didn't. Now he's stuck with him (and that may turn out to be a good thing, we don't know). However, the comparison to Cuse isn't accurate.

I hope Ollie is the guy. It doesn't change anything I've said, and your post here does nothing to disprove what I said.

 

[BlueMAB]

Did you do a study to see how many people go on to become highly successful at top schools. Most get fired. Kentucky went from Pitino to Calipari, wasted a decade in between and sold their souls in the process. Indiana, UCLA, ditto. on and on. Transitions aren't easy even when you hire top guns. Chances for failure are high.

Yet there are examples of good successions out there if you care to luck, like Tom Izzo.

I'm not one who thinks Hobbs did a bad job at GW at all. And Leitao had the best DePaul team of the last two decades. Some jobs suck.

When did I say transitions were easy, or that Manuel or Calhoun made a mistake by hiring Ollie?

All I said was Calhoun is no more qualified to hire a coach than the man who was hired to hire coaches. None of what you posted disproves that.

Who is responsible for hiring/firing coaches at UConn? You cut him off at the knees by not allowing him to do his job. I think they made the best decision possible in giving Ollie the job for one year. Ollie has an audition, Warde has time to continue to do a search behind the scenes and put out feelers to see who's interested.

My main point was, and remains, Warde should be allowed to do his job. I'm not sure how anything you've posted disagrees with that or if you're just disagreeing to be disagreeable.

 

[cohenzone]

So being careful will increase our chances of finding another superstar. Tell that to Indiana fans. Tell that to Michigan fans.

How do we know JC wasn't careful in selecting Ollie? There are a number of branches on his tree he could have hired but he picked Ollie. All I know is Ollie joined the staff in 2010 and we went on to have probably our most magical season ever. Maybe JC knows Ollie's personality played a big role in that.

Missed my point totally. Maybe we wind up hiring Ollie anyway. This was not a search at all. You're choosing a CEO for a major corporation. Moreover, as much as I respect JC, what gave him the power or right to name a successor in a public university? That kind of is the AD's function.

 

[Excalibur]

Did you do a study to see how many people go on to become highly successful at top schools. Most get fired. Kentucky went from Pitino to Calipari, wasted a decade in between The whole world thought Smith was a good hire, he had been a Pitino assistant, and they didn't exactly tank) and sold their souls in the process. Indiana (Who hired an inexperienced assistant), UCLA (UCLA was all over the map, but was doing pretty well until they hired "UCLA guys" Farmar and Hazard), ditto. on and on. Transitions aren't easy even when you hire top guns. Chances for failure are high.

Yet there are examples of good successions out there if you care to luck, like Tom Izzo. Izzo had a ton of support throughout the university.

This is an unprecedented situation, but your analogies kind of suck. Izzo is the only one remotely close, and he was a long-time assistant who was essentially running the program even before he was named as successor. UNC, SJU, OK State and DePaul are just as valid as comparisons.

 

[upstater]

I'm not sure what your point is. Gross made a decision, and until Hopkins has the chance to do the job, nobody knows how that will turn out.

Gross agreed to sign off on Hopkins. Manuel had no choice based on the timing. It's been obvious for some time that Calhoun wanted KO. If Manuel wanted KO he could have signed off on it at any time, but he didn't. Now he's stuck with him (and that may turn out to be a good thing, we don't know). However, the comparison to Cuse isn't accurate.

I hope Ollie is the guy. It doesn't change anything I've said, and your post here does nothing to disprove what I said.

The comparison is entirely accurate. Hopkins is like Ollie and he's the HC's guy. Why isn't that accurate?

 

[upstater]

When did I say transitions were easy, or that Manuel or Calhoun made a mistake by hiring Ollie?

All I said was Calhoun is no more qualified to hire a coach than the man who was hired to hire coaches. None of what you posted disproves that.

I trust an expert in the game of basketball more than I trust someone who does not have the same expertise.

 

[upstater]

This is an unprecedented situation, but your analogies kind of suck. Izzo is the only one remotely close, and he was a long-time assistant who was essentially running the program even before he was named as successor. UNC, SJU, OK State and DePaul are just as valid as comparisons.

You're the one that came up with the analogies first. I think I pointed out in my post that all the analogies suck. Was I not obvious about that?

 

[BlueMAB]

The comparison is entirely accurate. Hopkins is like Ollie and he's the HC's guy. Why isn't that accurate?

In 1995 Hopkins was hired as an assistant in some capacity at Syracuse. He's been there for 17 years.

In 1995 Ollie was just finishing his UConn career and playing for the Connecticut Pride.

Hopkins is a 17 year assistant. Ollie is a 2 year assistant. They are nothing alike.

Additionally, Darryl Gross AGREED to name him a coach in waiting. It's pretty damn obvious that Manuel wasn't willing to do the same. But due to the timing, he really had no choice.

So no, in more ways than one, the comparison is entirely inaccurate.

 

[BlueMAB]

I trust an expert in the game of basketball more than I trust someone who does not have the same expertise.

Good for you. Unfortunately for you, the fact remains a major aspect of Warde Manuel's job description is to hire and fire coaches. Not Jim Calhoun.

If that's not going to be his job, then we need to pay him less, and find out if he still wants the job.

 

[upstater]

In 1995 Hopkins was hired as an assistant in some capacity at Syracuse. He's been there for 17 years.

In 1995 Ollie was just finishing his UConn career and playing for the Connecticut Pride.

Hopkins is a 17 year assistant. Ollie is a 2 year assistant. They are nothing alike.

Additionally, Darryl Gross AGREED to name him a coach in waiting. It's pretty damn obvious that Manuel wasn't willing to do the same. But due to the timing, he really had no choice.

So no, in more ways than one, the comparison is entirely inaccurate.

You're another one that dismisses his NBA experience. 17 years to 2, right? That's the comparison?

Gross did the smart thing and took the expert's recommendation.

 

[upstater]

Good for you. Unfortunately for you, the fact remains a major aspect of Warde Manuel's job description is to hire and fire coaches. Not Jim Calhoun.

If that's not going to be his job, then we need to pay him less, and find out if he still wants the job.

Unfortunately for me?

Who the hell gives a shit about me?

We're talking about an AD who signals to the world he's not behind the hiring of the coach.

Yeah, only good things can come of that.

 

[freescooter]

When did I say transitions were easy, or that Manuel or Calhoun made a mistake by hiring Ollie?

All I said was Calhoun is no more qualified to hire a coach than the man who was hired to hire coaches. None of what you posted disproves that.

Who is responsible for hiring/firing coaches at UConn? You cut him off at the knees by not allowing him to do his job. I think they made the best decision possible in giving Ollie the job for one year. Ollie has an audition, Warde has time to continue to do a search behind the scenes and put out feelers to see who's interested.

My main point was, and remains, Warde should be allowed to do his job. I'm not sure how anything you've posted disagrees with that or if you're just disagreeing to be disagreeable.

This is so on the money, I can't disagree with any of it. The Syracuse comparison is foolish in my estimation, but if you want to insist on using it, don't forget that Hopkins has been on the Syracuse staff for 15 year, not 2 years. And by the way, Gross has on at least one occasion denied that Hopkins will automatically get the job.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3067256&campaign=rss&source=NCBHeadlines

as far as the Ollie situation goes, i think this has been a complete and total disaster from virtually every angle. Calhoun screwed the University by pulling this crap this late so he could get his way on Ollie. Ollie himself is totally unprepared to be a head coach at a major D-1 power. And what the heck kind of head coach doesn't get to name his assistants? Not one. While I like Karl Hobbs, it is embarrassing that they announced that he was now going to become an assistant...Ollie didn't make that decision...Maybe they'll let him have input into the new director of operations...The athletic director has been cut off at the knees...now he knows i guess who actually runs the athletic department. Probably should have just let the interim guy keep the job. He made no pretense of not being in Calhoun's pocket.

This is the silliest hire since Notre Dame attempted to replace Dan Devine with Gerry Faust. And i can't remember a top program since that replaced its coach with someone as unprepared as Kevin Ollie is. there have been questionable hires in the past, but none quite so ridiculous as this one looks from anywhere but Calhoun's living room. i hope I'm wrong about this but I don't think I will be. I see this being a disaster in the making that could take a better part of a decade to undo. It could well take 3-4 years before anyone is willing to admit Ollie was a mistake (that is the typical run for these things), and another 4-5 before things get back on track...And if I'm Manuel, I'm putting my resume out on the street too...might as well go somewhere where they want a real AD, not a gopher for the best known head coach.

 

[BlueMAB]

You're another one that dismisses his NBA experience. 17 years to 2, right? That's the comparison?

Gross did the smart thing and took the expert's recommendation.

Jordan was the best ever. How's that worked out for him as GM?

How about Isaiah Thomas? There are plenty of examples of guys who had playing experience and couldn't coach.... and vice versa. The fact is, 15 years of coaching is different than 13 years of playing. Whether it's better, worse, or indifferent is unknowable (unless like you, we can predict the future and call Hopkins a success before he's ever coached a game).

Playing, coaching, managing. They are different skills.

You continue to ignore the positive things I've said about KO only to pick a fight. The fact is, no. 13 years of playing is not equivalent to 15 years of coaching. Ollie may very well be succesful. And I don't think Manuel made a mistake in giving him an audition. I've only said that if Warde wants to hire somebody else, that's the job we've hired him to do. He needs to be allowed to do it.

What's Hopkin's record as head coach of Saracuse? You're ASSuming he's going to be succesful. Nobody knows how that will work out.

Once again, Gross did what he WANTED to do. Manuel was FORCED into this decision. That alone makes the situations different. If Manuel had wanted to name Ollie the coach in waiting 2 years ago, that's his decision. He didn't make that decision though for a reason. He should be allowed to do his job, it doesn't matter who you trust more.

 

[upstater]

This is so on the money, I can't disagree with any of it. The Syracuse comparison is foolish in my estimation, but if you want to insist on using it, don't forget that Hopkins has been on the Syracuse staff for 15 year, not 2 years. And by the way, Gross has on at least one occasion denied that Hopkins will automatically get the job.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3067256&campaign=rss&source=NCBHeadlines

as far as the Ollie situation goes, i think this has been a complete and total disaster from virtually every angle. Calhoun screwed the University by pulling this crap this late so he could get his way on Ollie. Ollie himself is totally unprepared to be a head coach at a major D-1 power. And what the heck kind of head coach doesn't get to name his assistants? Not one. While I like Karl Hobbs, it is embarrassing that they announced that he was now going to become an assistant...Ollie didn't make that decision...Maybe they'll let him have input into the new director of operations...The athletic director has been cut off at the knees...now he knows i guess who actually runs the athletic department. Probably should have just let the interim guy keep the job. He made no pretense of not being in Calhoun's pocket.

This is the silliest hire since Notre Dame attempted to replace Dan Devine with Gerry Faust. And i can't remember a top program since that replaced its coach with someone as unprepared as Kevin Ollie is. there have been questionable hires in the past, but none quite so ridiculous as this one looks from anywhere but Calhoun's living room. i hope I'm wrong about this but I don't think I will be. I see this being a disaster in the making that could take a better part of a decade to undo. It could well take 3-4 years before anyone is willing to admit Ollie was a mistake (that is the typical run for these things), and another 4-5 before things get back on track...And if I'm Manuel, I'm putting my resume out on the street too...might as well go somewhere where they want a real AD, not a gopher for the best known head coach.

Talk about foolishness and inanity.

Just make stuff up and then pass it off as factual.

 

[BlueMAB]

Unfortunately for me?

Who the hell gives a **** about me?

We're talking about an AD who signals to the world he's not behind the hiring of the coach.

Yeah, only good things can come of that.

Nobody.

But you wrote this.... not me.

I trust an expert in the game of basketball more than I trust someone who does not have the same expertise.

So I responded.

We're talking about an AD who was forced to hire a coach. Yeah, only good things can come of that.

 

[upstater]

Jordan was the best ever. How's that worked out for him as GM?

Playing, coaching, managing. They are different skills.

You continue to ignore the positive things I've said about KO only to pick a fight. The fact is, no. 13 years of playing is not equivalent to 15 years of coaching. Ollie may very well be succesful. And I don't think Manuel made a mistake in giving him an audition. I've only said that if Warde wants to hire somebody else, that's the job we've hired him to do. He needs to be allowed to do it.

What's Hopkin's record as head coach of Saracuse? You're ASSuming he's going to be succesful. Nobody knows how that will work out.

Once again, Gross did what he WANTED to do. Manuel was FORCED into this decision. That alone makes the situations different. If Manuel had wanted to name Ollie the coach in waiting 2 years ago, that's his decision. He didn't make that decision though for a reason. He should be allowed to do his job, it doesn't matter who you trust more.

Another totally silly analogy.

There have been lame-brained people playing sports. They are not suited to coaching.

The rap on Ollie is that he didn't play 13 years because of his athletic prowess or his skills. He was a heady player, good PG. in that respect, he was similar to Billy Donovan who had a couple year of assistant coaching, a couple years of mediocrity at Marshall. But then he stuck around as a mentor as well. In other words, comparing Jordan to Ollie is totally lame, especially when there are many other players out there that do go into coaching and experience a varyind degree of success.

You're actually asking me if I'm trying to be disagreeable and you wrote that?

 

[upstater]

Nobody.

But you wrote this.... not me.

So I responded.

We're talking about an AD who was forced to hire a coach. Yeah, only good things can come of that.

I have nothing to do with it. You said it's unfortunate for me. What's unfortunate for me is if the program collapses, and I assume that would be unfortunate for you too. Any success in this scenario is good for me. And maybe for you.

Again, you don't account for Calhoun's busted hip. Never mind that you don't even know the circumstances of Hopkins being announced as the next coach.

 

[freescooter]

What is made up? The things that are" passed off as fact" are in fact, facts. Hopkins has been an assistant for 15 plus years. I gave you a link on Gross's position where he denied making Hopkins coach in waiting. And which member of the staff did Ollie hire? Did I miss that somewhere? What top program brough tin a guy with virtually no coaching experience as their head coach?

 

[BlueMAB]

Another totally silly analogy.

There have been lame-brained people playing sports. They are not suited to coaching.

The rap on Ollie is that he didn't play 13 years because of his athletic prowess or his skills. He was a heady player, good PG. in that respect, he was similar to Billy Donovan who had a couple year of assistant coaching, a couple years of mediocrity at Marshall. But then he stuck around as a mentor as well. In other words, comparing Jordan to Ollie is totally lame, especially when there are many other players out there that do go into coaching and experience a varyind degree of success.

You're actually asking me if I'm trying to be disagreeable and you wrote that?

Here is what I added.

How about Isaiah Thomas? There are plenty of examples of guys who had playing experience and couldn't coach.... and vice versa. The fact is, 15 years of coaching is different than 13 years of playing. Whether it's better, worse, or indifferent is unknowable (unless like you, we can predict the future and call Hopkins a success before he's ever coached a game).
I'm not asking anymore, I'm sure of it.

 

[upstater]

What is made up? The things that are" passed off as fact" are in fact, facts. Hopkins has been an assistant for 15 plus years. I gave you a link on Gross's position where he denied making Hopkins coach in waiting. And which member of the staff did Ollie hire? Did I miss that somewhere? What top program brough tin a guy with virtually no coaching experience as their head coach?

And you know what Ollie and such talked about regarding the composition of the coaching staff? Really?

 

[BlueMAB]

I have nothing to do with it. You said it's unfortunate for me. What's unfortunate for me is if the program collapses, and I assume that would be unfortunate for you too. Any success in this scenario is good for me. And maybe for you.

Again, you don't account for Calhoun's busted hip. Never mind that you don't even know the circumstances of Hopkins being announced as the next coach.

You said who you trusted more as if that had anything to do with what Warde should do. As if because you trust Calhoun more, then we should, or Manuel should. If you don't want it to be about you, don't make it about you.

I responded to your question about his hip and you ignored it. Here it is again...

No, I'm not. That doesn't mean I have to pretend that the timing wasn't harmful to the program. Broken hip or not, every year he has made it very clear he (like Dean Smith) would wait until the fall to make his decision.

Whether it was this year, or 4 years from now, when he retired, it was going to be in the fall, he's made that well known for some time. He was never going to retire in April of any year.

Just to be clear, I'm not upset with JC for the timing. He earned the right to retire whenever he wanted to. I don't begrudge him anything. But the facts are the facts. The timing, no matter what year it happened, leaves the AD in a situation where he has no choice but to promote an assistant. That's as good a compromise as should be made.

 

[freescooter]

And you know what Ollie and such talked about regarding the composition of the coaching staff? Really?

that's it? Ok I'm speculating that he was told here's the staff, take it or leave it.

 

[upstater]

Here is what I added.

How about Isaiah Thomas? There are plenty of examples of guys who had playing experience and couldn't coach.... and vice versa. The fact is, 15 years of coaching is different than 13 years of playing. Whether it's better, worse, or indifferent is unknowable (unless like you, we can predict the future and call Hopkins a success before he's ever coached a game).
I'm not asking anymore, I'm sure of it.

We agree on this. I've been saying this from the start. All I'm doing is countering the idea that one, coaching successions chosen by the old HC never work out. Two, that someone whose basketball experience has been as a player mostly never works out. Three, that assistant coaching experience is more valuable than playing experience.

I buy that HC experience is more valuable.

But the argument broached here is not whether you want to break with Calhoun's suggestion and move on, but rather what level of support the AD should have shown at this crucial time in the program's history.

Because there are surely other posters here who are not fans of the Ollie hire but who also believe it's important for the school to support the coach they choose in the fullest manner possible.

 

[upstater]

You said who you trusted more as if that had anything to do with what Warde should do. As if because you trust Calhoun more, then we should, or Manuel should. If you don't want it to be about you, don't make it about you.

I responded to your question about his hip and you ignored it. Here it is again...

What a ridiculous comment. By saying I trust an expert, I made it about me? Loony. I obviously have nothing to do with this. I'm commenting on a message board at noon on a Friday, for heaven's sake. It wouldn't be unfortunate AT ALL for me if UConn achieves success.

It was not a certainty, prior to Calhoun's broken hip, that he was stepping down. Not at all.

 

[upstater]

that's it? Ok I'm speculating that he was told here's the staff, take it or leave it.

You presented it as factual

 

[huskymedic]

The people who think JC hurt the program by not letting Warde Manuel pick his own guy are out of their freaking mind. Why would you have more faith in a football guy over our hall of fame basketball coach? .

Mets - where do you get that Warde is a "football guy"??