What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[upstater]

Nobody.

But you wrote this.... not me.

So I responded.

We're talking about an AD who was forced to hire a coach. Yeah, only good things can come of that.

I have nothing to do with it. You said it's unfortunate for me. What's unfortunate for me is if the program collapses, and I assume that would be unfortunate for you too. Any success in this scenario is good for me. And maybe for you.

Again, you don't account for Calhoun's busted hip. Never mind that you don't even know the circumstances of Hopkins being announced as the next coach.

 

[freescooter]

What is made up? The things that are" passed off as fact" are in fact, facts. Hopkins has been an assistant for 15 plus years. I gave you a link on Gross's position where he denied making Hopkins coach in waiting. And which member of the staff did Ollie hire? Did I miss that somewhere? What top program brough tin a guy with virtually no coaching experience as their head coach?

 

[BlueMAB]

Another totally silly analogy.

There have been lame-brained people playing sports. They are not suited to coaching.

The rap on Ollie is that he didn't play 13 years because of his athletic prowess or his skills. He was a heady player, good PG. in that respect, he was similar to Billy Donovan who had a couple year of assistant coaching, a couple years of mediocrity at Marshall. But then he stuck around as a mentor as well. In other words, comparing Jordan to Ollie is totally lame, especially when there are many other players out there that do go into coaching and experience a varyind degree of success.

You're actually asking me if I'm trying to be disagreeable and you wrote that?

Here is what I added.

How about Isaiah Thomas? There are plenty of examples of guys who had playing experience and couldn't coach.... and vice versa. The fact is, 15 years of coaching is different than 13 years of playing. Whether it's better, worse, or indifferent is unknowable (unless like you, we can predict the future and call Hopkins a success before he's ever coached a game).
I'm not asking anymore, I'm sure of it.

 

[upstater]

What is made up? The things that are" passed off as fact" are in fact, facts. Hopkins has been an assistant for 15 plus years. I gave you a link on Gross's position where he denied making Hopkins coach in waiting. And which member of the staff did Ollie hire? Did I miss that somewhere? What top program brough tin a guy with virtually no coaching experience as their head coach?

And you know what Ollie and such talked about regarding the composition of the coaching staff? Really?

 

[BlueMAB]

I have nothing to do with it. You said it's unfortunate for me. What's unfortunate for me is if the program collapses, and I assume that would be unfortunate for you too. Any success in this scenario is good for me. And maybe for you.

Again, you don't account for Calhoun's busted hip. Never mind that you don't even know the circumstances of Hopkins being announced as the next coach.

You said who you trusted more as if that had anything to do with what Warde should do. As if because you trust Calhoun more, then we should, or Manuel should. If you don't want it to be about you, don't make it about you.

I responded to your question about his hip and you ignored it. Here it is again...

No, I'm not. That doesn't mean I have to pretend that the timing wasn't harmful to the program. Broken hip or not, every year he has made it very clear he (like Dean Smith) would wait until the fall to make his decision.

Whether it was this year, or 4 years from now, when he retired, it was going to be in the fall, he's made that well known for some time. He was never going to retire in April of any year.

Just to be clear, I'm not upset with JC for the timing. He earned the right to retire whenever he wanted to. I don't begrudge him anything. But the facts are the facts. The timing, no matter what year it happened, leaves the AD in a situation where he has no choice but to promote an assistant. That's as good a compromise as should be made.

 

[freescooter]

And you know what Ollie and such talked about regarding the composition of the coaching staff? Really?

that's it? Ok I'm speculating that he was told here's the staff, take it or leave it.

 

[upstater]

Here is what I added.

How about Isaiah Thomas? There are plenty of examples of guys who had playing experience and couldn't coach.... and vice versa. The fact is, 15 years of coaching is different than 13 years of playing. Whether it's better, worse, or indifferent is unknowable (unless like you, we can predict the future and call Hopkins a success before he's ever coached a game).
I'm not asking anymore, I'm sure of it.

We agree on this. I've been saying this from the start. All I'm doing is countering the idea that one, coaching successions chosen by the old HC never work out. Two, that someone whose basketball experience has been as a player mostly never works out. Three, that assistant coaching experience is more valuable than playing experience.

I buy that HC experience is more valuable.

But the argument broached here is not whether you want to break with Calhoun's suggestion and move on, but rather what level of support the AD should have shown at this crucial time in the program's history.

Because there are surely other posters here who are not fans of the Ollie hire but who also believe it's important for the school to support the coach they choose in the fullest manner possible.

 

[upstater]

You said who you trusted more as if that had anything to do with what Warde should do. As if because you trust Calhoun more, then we should, or Manuel should. If you don't want it to be about you, don't make it about you.

I responded to your question about his hip and you ignored it. Here it is again...

What a ridiculous comment. By saying I trust an expert, I made it about me? Loony. I obviously have nothing to do with this. I'm commenting on a message board at noon on a Friday, for heaven's sake. It wouldn't be unfortunate AT ALL for me if UConn achieves success.

It was not a certainty, prior to Calhoun's broken hip, that he was stepping down. Not at all.

 

[upstater]

that's it? Ok I'm speculating that he was told here's the staff, take it or leave it.

You presented it as factual

 

[huskymedic]

The people who think JC hurt the program by not letting Warde Manuel pick his own guy are out of their freaking mind. Why would you have more faith in a football guy over our hall of fame basketball coach? .

Mets - where do you get that Warde is a "football guy"??

 

[BlueMAB]

We agree on this. I've been saying this from the start. All I'm doing is countering the idea that one, coaching successions chosen by the old HC never work out. I never made that argument.


Two, that someone whose basketball experience has been as a player mostly never works out. Three, that assistant coaching experience is more valuable than playing experience. I never made that argument.

I buy that HC experience is more valuable.

But the argument broached here is not whether you want to break with Calhoun's suggestion and move on, but rather what level of support the AD should have shown at this crucial time in the program's history.

Because there are surely other posters here who are not fans of the Ollie hire but who also believe it's important for the school to support the coach they choose in the fullest manner possible. He did that. He was stuck with Ollie, whether he wanted him or not. So he gave him a one year audition without an "interim" tag. Meaning it's his to lose going forward, he is not simply a temp.

The first two replies are why I believe you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[BlueMAB]

What a ridiculous comment. By saying I trust an expert, I made it about me? Loony. I obviously have nothing to do with this. I'm commenting on a message board at noon on a Friday, for heaven's sake. It wouldn't be unfortunate AT ALL for me if UConn achieves success.

It was not a certainty, prior to Calhoun's broken hip, that he was stepping down. Not at all.

Are you going to acknowledge facts or just argue? Because I have better things to do.

Calhoun has always made it very clear, that when he decided to step down it would be in the fall, closer to the start of the next season. Not immediately after the most recent season. He has said it for years. Whether or not the hip made that decision easier this year, we'll never know. But the fact remains he was always going to retire in the fall, close to the start of the season.

If you refuse to admit that fact, then you're really just arguing to be an @ss.

 

[upstater]

Are you going to acknowledge facts or just argue? Because I have better things to do.

Calhoun has always made it very clear, that when he decided to step down it would be in the fall, closer to the start of the next season. Not immediately after the most recent season. He has said it for years. Whether or not the hip made that decision easier this year, we'll never know. But the fact remains he was always going to retire in the fall, close to the start of the season.

If you refuse to admit that fact, then you're really just arguing to be an @ss.

It's funny. We've reached the point we're we've accused each other of the exact same thing. I mean, I see your arguments as becoming increasingly preposterous and designed to extend the argument. I don't know why, but just to mimic your latest, don't be a donkey.

 

[upstater]

The first two replies are why I believe you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

You are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

You clearly, clearly, clearly know that posters making the full support argument are talking about giving Ollie a longer deal and not sounding wishy-washy at the podium.

Yet you write this trash about Manuel's degree of support?

How am I supposed to take you seriously?

 

[upstater]

What is made up? The things that are" passed off as fact" are in fact, facts. Hopkins has been an assistant for 15 plus years. I gave you a link on Gross's position where he denied making Hopkins coach in waiting. And which member of the staff did Ollie hire? Did I miss that somewhere? What top program brough tin a guy with virtually no coaching experience as their head coach?

Holy cow. I pointed out which fact is made up. You even responded to the post. The idea that Hobbs being moved to assistant was forced on Ollie is made up.

 

[freescooter]

upstater you're a riot. You make up stuff about the people you disagree with and then you attack them for it...

 

[BlueMAB]

You are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

You clearly, clearly, clearly know that posters making the full support argument are talking about giving Ollie a longer deal and not sounding wishy-washy at the podium.

Yet you write this trash about Manuel's degree of support?

How am I supposed to take you seriously?

Your problem is you feel inclined to make assumptions.

You assume Gross made the right decision, and Hopkins is a success before he's ever coached a game.

You assume I'm responding to people that I haven't quoted, or cited specifically, and then tell me why I'm wrong for responding to something I never responded to.

I understand why people are frustrated Ollie wasn't shown more support. I disagree with them, but I understand it. I don't believe he deserved a longer deal, and I don't blame the AD for wanting to make this hire his own since he has to live with the consequences, not the new assistant AD who is retiring.

The AD was put in an impossible situation. He was forced to hire a guy he didn't want to hire, and people are upset he didn't show the man he didn't really want to hire more support?

And I'm not to be taken seriously because you can't accept that fact? Ok skippy, enjoy your day.

 

[8893]

We agree on this. I've been saying this from the start. All I'm doing is countering the idea that one, coaching successions chosen by the old HC never work out. Two, that someone whose basketball experience has been as a player mostly never works out. Three, that assistant coaching experience is more valuable than playing experience.

I buy that HC experience is more valuable.

But the argument broached here is not whether you want to break with Calhoun's suggestion and move on, but rather what level of support the AD should have shown at this crucial time in the program's history.

Because there are surely other posters here who are not fans of the Ollie hire but who also believe it's important for the school to support the coach they choose in the fullest manner possible.

This is exactly the point imo. We know that the financial difference between a two-year contract and a seven-month contract for Kevin had nothing to do with it. But the difference in perception is light years away imo, both in terms of what it says to Kevin and to the outside world. A two-year contract says "I believe that you will succeed as our next head coach," but it leaves you an out if things go badly. A seven-month contract says "I don't believe that you will succeed as our next head coach, but at this late date I have no other choice; you will have to prove it to me."

I have less of a problem with the effect this may have on Kevin. I truly believe him when he says that this type of challenge is one he welcomes and that he has accepted and overcome his entire life, and I think it will be motivation for him and his players. What concerns me is the message that it sends to the outside world. No one would have thought any less of Manuel if he gave a two-year deal. To the contrary, I think he would have earned more respect as even more of a class act and a leader himself. One who has the confidence and experience to know that throwing your support behind good people is the way to succeed. He could exercise all the restraint in the world that he wants to within UConn, and I wish that's where he would have kept his obvious doubts about Kevin, or his own insecurity in making this decision. To me, it now looks like he is wearing his doubt and insecurity on his sleeve. And I don't underestimate the contagious power of either support or the lack thereof. IMO there is something to be said for the power of believing in people, or at least giving the appearance that you do.

The other thing that this has made clear to me is that if JC had retired sooner, as many here have suggested, there is no way Kevin gets a shot as head coach. That being the case, I am glad he did what he did. I want to see Kevin get a chance, and I believe that he will be a successful head coach here or elsewhere.

 

[upstater]

The first two replies are why I believe you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

OK then, I misinterpreted your response earlier. When I wrote that Ollie has plenty of NBA experience that counts for something, you responded about Michael Jordan. I thought that was diminishing Ollie's experience. That's why I wrote that I was countering that idea.

 

[upstater]

upstater you're a riot. You make up stuff about the people you disagree with and then you attack them for it...

Oh, I'm the one that made up the stuff about Hobbs being foisted won Ollie. Yeah, good work freescooter.

Anyone who reads this can easily tell that you're full of it.

 

[upstater]

Your problem is you feel inclined to make assumptions.

You assume Gross made the right decision, and Hopkins is a success before he's ever coached a game.

Nope, never said that. Said there is no talk about Gross's ego or cojones for taking orders from Boeheim.

You assume I'm responding to people that I haven't quoted, or cited specifically, and then tell me why I'm wrong for responding to something I never responded to.

Have no idea what this is in reference to.

I understand why people are frustrated Ollie wasn't shown more support. I disagree with them, but I understand it. I don't believe he deserved a longer deal, and I don't blame the AD for wanting to make this hire his own since he has to live with the consequences, not the new assistant AD who is retiring.

The AD was put in an impossible situation. He was forced to hire a guy he didn't want to hire, and people are upset he didn't show the man he didn't really want to hire more support?

The AD should pipe down. It's not about him.

And I'm not to be taken seriously because you can't accept that fact? Ok skippy, enjoy your day.

Yeah, I can't take you seriously because you're coming on here claiming Manuel gave Ollie his fullest support. Please!!!!!!

 

[upstater]

This is exactly the point imo. We know that the financial difference between a two-year contract and a seven-month contract for Kevin had nothing to do with it. But the difference in perception is light years away imo, both in terms of what it says to Kevin and to the outside world. A two-year contract says "I believe that you will succeed as our next head coach," but it leaves you an out if things go badly. A seven-month contract says "I don't believe that you will succeed as our next head coach, but at this late date I have no other choice; you will have to prove it to me."

I have less of a problem with the effect this may have on Kevin. I truly believe him when he says that this type of challenge is one he welcomes and that he has accepted and overcome his entire life, and I think it will be motivation for him and his players. What concerns me is the message that it sends to the outside world. No one would have thought any less of Manuel if he gave a two-year deal. To the contrary, I think he would have earned more respect as even more of a class act and a leader himself. One who has the confidence and experience to know that throwing your support behind good people is the way to succeed. He could exercise all the restraint in the world that he wants to within UConn, and I wish that's where he would have kept his obvious doubts about Kevin, or his own insecurity in making this decision. To me, it now looks like he is wearing his doubt and insecurity on his sleeve. And I don't underestimate the contagious power of either support or the lack thereof. IMO there is something to be said for the power of believing in people, or at least giving the appearance that you do.

The other thing that this has made clear to me is that if JC had retired sooner, as many here have suggested, there is no way Kevin gets a shot as head coach. That being the case, I am glad he did what he did. I want to see Kevin get a chance, and I believe that he will be a successful head coach here or elsewhere.

Well stated.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agreed. KO got a raw deal, but he's never had it easy. It will motivate him to fight for his coaching life. I'm hoping he gets a mid-season extension so that recruiting will be smooth. At this point, the recruiting situation is very similar to before Coach Calhoun retired. How do recruits know that KO will be the coach after 2013; how can they commit knowing that in 2013-2014 a different system may be run? I think Calhoun is going to play a large role behind the scenes to teach KO about situational coaching to ensure he succeeds. Half of coaching is recruiting IMO (Squid), and Ollie has that down well. His staff his strong, his players are loyal...I'd be surprised if he does not succeed.

How is this a raw deal? It's a fantastic deal. Here's a guy that on resume alone, wouldn't get a look at a head coaching job at U Hartford, and he's the head coach at one of the top programs in the country. He has been very fortunate to be given even this opportunity.

I think that no matter who was named the coach, KO, Hobbs, or Blaney (God forbid), nobody should get more than a one year contract until a thorough search and interview process is conducted. I suspect that UConn will do that in the spring unless it is obvious that he's destined to be one of the all time greats. I doubt that it will be obvious.

As for recruits, they are looking at two options: (1) Kevin Ollie or (2) somebody better than Kevin Ollie. There are no other options. I think every recruit knows that if KO is let go, it will because UConn landed a pretty big name coach. They aren't dumping him for Tom Moore or Howie Dickerman.

 

[ctchamps]

This is exactly the point imo. We know that the financial difference between a two-year contract and a seven-month contract for Kevin had nothing to do with it. But the difference in perception is light years away imo, both in terms of what it says to Kevin and to the outside world. A two-year contract says "I believe that you will succeed as our next head coach," but it leaves you an out if things go badly. A seven-month contract says "I don't believe that you will succeed as our next head coach, but at this late date I have no other choice; you will have to prove it to me."

I have less of a problem with the effect this may have on Kevin. I truly believe him when he says that this type of challenge is one he welcomes and that he has accepted and overcome his entire life, and I think it will be motivation for him and his players. What concerns me is the message that it sends to the outside world. No one would have thought any less of Manuel if he gave a two-year deal. To the contrary, I think he would have earned more respect as even more of a class act and a leader himself. One who has the confidence and experience to know that throwing your support behind good people is the way to succeed. He could exercise all the restraint in the world that he wants to within UConn, and I wish that's where he would have kept his obvious doubts about Kevin, or his own insecurity in making this decision. To me, it now looks like he is wearing his doubt and insecurity on his sleeve. And I don't underestimate the contagious power of either support or the lack thereof. IMO there is something to be said for the power of believing in people, or at least giving the appearance that you do.

The other thing that this has made clear to me is that if JC had retired sooner, as many here have suggested, there is no way Kevin gets a shot as head coach. That being the case, I am glad he did what he did. I want to see Kevin get a chance, and I believe that he will be a successful head coach here or elsewhere.

No way we can be certain WM considered this in his decision making process ( we can be reading things that don't exist or omitting things that do) but the consideration of a two year contract has so much more upside than downside relative to the one year imo as well.

 

[BlueMAB]

OK then, I misinterpreted your response earlier. When I wrote that Ollie has plenty of NBA experience that counts for something, you responded about Michael Jordan. I thought that was diminishing Ollie's experience. That's why I wrote that I was countering that idea.

Yes, it counts for something. But we don't know how important it is until he actually does the job. I also wrote there are plenty of examples both positive and negative of players with a lot of experience becoming coaching.

IMO, an assistant with 17 years of experience at a high major program under a hall of fame coach, is not comparable to a guy with 13 years of playing in the NBA.

Ollie could turn out to be a better coach, we won't know for awhile, but you compared the situation simply because they are both assistants. That's all they have in common. And Hopkins hasn't coached a game, but you continue to make the argument Gross made the right decision, as if it's a foregone conclusion that he will be succesfull.