Whaley

[ctchamps]

Don't agree with that. Kentan was N.Y. State Gatorade Player of the Year as a senior. And was also a nominee for the McDonald’s AA Game.

Whaley was, well, a nobody coming in.

Kentan is another prime example of criminal waste of potential during the prior regime. If he had this coaching staff working with him, who knows where he ends up.

Kentan started playing bb in his teens. He was able to dominate kids at the hs level because of superior athleticism. He was absolutely lost on the court in college.

Sid is another kid who has off the charts athleticism and last season had reduced playing time because of poor defensive playing. It was not Facey poor but I imagine Sid started playing young and grew up in the states.

More than likely Sid had poor coaching coming into college whereas Kentan was late to the game and had poor coaching before college.

As a freshman under KO the unheralded Whaley had a better understanding of court awareness (how to position himself relative to his teammates on offense and defense) than the superior athletic Facey as a freshman under KO.

 

[intlzncster]

True about NY player of the year but you recognize McD's AA game nominee means nothing, right?

I mean yeah, but it's just a data point vis a vis Whaley. Whaley wouldn't make the list for example.

 

[intlzncster]

Kentan started playing bb in his teens. He was able to dominate kids at the hs level because of superior athleticism. He was absolutely lost on the court in college.

He played AAU for the Rens. He was playing against some good comp. He might have started out late, but he was skilled. Billed as being able to hit the three, similar to Akok.

He was lost because the prior regime didn't teach him anything. With the current crew, he probably would have spent 1 year lost, and then made a huge leap. He certainly had All Conference-like potential.

 

[mauconnfan]

He played AAU for the Rens. He was playing against some good comp. He might have started out late, but he was skilled. Billed as being able to hit the three, similar to Akok.

He was lost because the prior regime didn't teach him anything. With the current crew, he probably would have spent 1 year lost, and then made a huge leap. He certainly had All Conference-like potential.

Skills mean zero when there is no fundamental or natural ability to go with it. It works in HS and ends there. Enoch dominated in prep too, had no idea how to play defense and everyone including the "prior regime" has been teaching him how to play it and he's still dreadful. Yes that includes Louisville and Mack so while the prior regime certainly needs to be reprimanded for much of what they did Facey, Enoch and Brimah's ability to learn the game is not on them. Some things can't be taught period.

 

[ctchamps]

He played AAU for the Rens. He was playing against some good comp. He might have started out late, but he was skilled. Billed as being able to hit the three, similar to Akok.

He was lost because the prior regime didn't teach him anything. With the current crew, he probably would have spent 1 year lost, and then made a huge leap. He certainly had All Conference-like potential.

From an article by Paul Biancardi:

The native of Jamaica, who came to the United States a couple of years ago, is 6-foot-8, 190 pounds and has a 7-1 wingspan. In 2011, he enrolled with Upper Room Christian in Long Island before transferring after the season to his new school, Long Island Lutheran. This time one year ago he was playing AAU basketball for the New Heights Program, but wasn't really a factor. He was trying acclimate to the culture. To say he was raw would be an understatement.

"When I came to the States I had no idea what to expect," Facey said. "The speed of the game was at another level. It was a huge adjustment. I had a hard time just catching the ball."

He essentially played two years of competitive ball before joining UConn. Compare this to Whaley who started playing in middle school, helped his Ashbrook, NC high school team to a 3A state championship game, went to Charlotte's Eveyln Mack Academy for a year and then Baltimore's Mount Zion Prep School for a year.

In the post that began our back and forth I wrote this:

Whaley had more bb experience and IQ than Kentan arriving at UConn. But Kentan is taller and has better hops. It took four years before Kentan knew how to play team ball.

You wrote this:

Don't agree with that. Kentan was N.Y. State Gatorade Player of the Year as a senior. And was also a nominee for the McDonald’s AA Game.

Whaley was, well, a nobody coming in.

Getting that award and nomination was as much about potential as actual team skill. Kentan was more than freshman lost under KO. Whaley was freshman lost under KO. Both players had the same coach. One player came in more athletic, one more experienced. I'm confused about your disagreement.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Kentan is another prime example of criminal waste of potential during the prior regime. If he had this coaching staff working with him, who knows where he ends up.

I'm sure people will disagree, but with this staff there's no reason to think Kentan wouldn't be playing in the NBA right now. The single biggest example of coaching malpractice from the prior regime, in my opinion.

 

[ctchamps]

Skills mean zero when there is no fundamental or natural ability to go with it. It works in HS and ends there. Enoch dominated in prep too, had no idea how to play defense and everyone including the "prior regime" has been teaching him how to play it and he's still dreadful. Yes that includes Louisville and Mack so while the prior regime certainly needs to be reprimanded for much of what they did Facey, Enoch and Brimah's ability to learn the game is not on them. Some things can't be taught period.

Check out post #22 in the thread started by palatine titled “A couple of observations”.

 

[intlzncster]

He essentially played two years of competitive ball before joining UConn. Compare this to Whaley who started playing in middle school, helped his Ashbrook, NC high school team to a 3A state championship game, went to Charlotte's Eveyln Mack Academy for a year and then Baltimore's Mount Zion Prep School for a year.

I wasn't talking about relative years playing. Dunno why I deleted the last sentence of your post in the quote.

Whaley had more bb experience and IQ than Kentan arriving at UConn. But Kentan is taller and has better hops. It took four years before Kentan knew how to play team ball.
Getting that award and nomination was as much about potential as actual team skill. Kentan was more than freshman lost under KO. Whaley was freshman lost under KO. Both players had the same coach. One player came in more athletic, one more experienced. I'm confused about your disagreement.

My reply was both to you and the post you replied to. I just didn't link his.

The original premise from the post you quoted said that they were comparable. And you implied you agreed. I'm arguing that they were not remotely so.

And fwiw Whaley had very low basketball IQ coming in too, experience or not. He literally had no idea where to be his first year. None. Even last year he really struggled. The only thing he knew was how to get rebounds with his motor. And occasionally guard on the ball.

I feel that Kentan was the far superior player coming in, he was unfortunately wasted.

 

[intlzncster]

Skills mean zero when there is no fundamental or natural ability to go with it. It works in HS and ends there. Enoch dominated in prep too, had no idea how to play defense and everyone including the "prior regime" has been teaching him how to play it and he's still dreadful. Yes that includes Louisville and Mack so while the prior regime certainly needs to be reprimanded for much of what they did Facey, Enoch and Brimah's ability to learn the game is not on them. Some things can't be taught period.

These things can be taught. You looking at all these kids as static quantities is weird. Some kids might get a lot better than others, but it's possible to learn.

The prior regime either taught very little of this or weren't effective at the teaching; the results were easily observable. The current group does, and you can clearly see the results with Carlton/Whaley.

Some guys can't learn sure, but that's not the majority. As we've said, Kentan came in playing only a few years. So had supreme upside to learn these things. He had significant upside potential, but unfortunately learned very little.

We saw him break out a bit as a Sr. That means he was capable. If Hurley had him from day 1, I'm willing to bet we would have seen that sophomore year...and then greater heights reached as a Jr Sr.

And fwiw, Enoch, who averaged 10/6 last year, apparently had a great offseason. I'm not saying he's great, but he made much more improvement at Ville than he showed at UCONN. I'll be interested to see what happens to him this year.

 

[mauconnfan]

These things can be taught. You looking at all these kids as static quantities is weird. Some kids might get a lot better than others, but it's possible to learn.

The prior regime either taught very little of this or weren't effective at the teaching; the results were easily observable. The current group does, and you can clearly see the results with Carlton/Whaley.

Some guys can't learn sure, but that's not the majority. As we've said, Kentan came in playing only a few years. So had supreme upside to learn these things. He had significant upside potential, but unfortunately learned very little.

We saw him break out a bit as a Sr. That means he was capable. If Hurley had him from day 1, I'm willing to bet we would have seen that sophomore year...and then greater heights reached as a Jr Sr.

And fwiw, Enoch, who averaged 10/6 last year, apparently had a great offseason. I'm not saying he's great, but he made much more improvement at Ville than he showed at UCONN. I'll be interested to see what happens to him this year.

Please int you don’t think they were teaching fundamentals they tried but they also hoped they came with the understanding of how to play the game. We know they can coach and despite their national title your thoughts they couldn’t at all is what’s weird. Enoch sucks on D still hasn’t learned you said they didn’t teach him or try to and I guess you’re now telling me neither did Louisvile then right?? And 10/6 wow. Pretty sure at 6’11 270 and now 21 years old he would’ve done that by mistake at UConn under that crappy coaching staff simplay on maturity and size. 10/6 does not answer the question of why is he still a crappy defender? Because some players just never get it. Soph year with Facey is beyond a reach even with Hurley. He was lost no clue when he came in. He got strong enough to be better by his senior year and I commend him for that. Fundamentally he still was short but an improved player.

 

[Son of Robert]

Yo dudes, it's important to understand that Kentan lost his father somewhere between his sophomore and junior year, and was having a lot of trouble with it, his head wasn't in it. By senior year he was back on track and I thought he looked very good, things just didn't quite work out for him as well as they could have.

 

[David 76]

Seems very likeable.

 

[ctchamps]

I wasn't talking about relative years playing. Dunno why I deleted the last sentence of your post in the quote.



My reply was both to you and the post you replied to. I just didn't link his.

The original premise from the post you quoted said that they were comparable. And you implied you agreed. I'm arguing that they were not remotely so.

And fwiw Whaley had very low basketball IQ coming in too, experience or not. He literally had no idea where to be his first year. None. Even last year he really struggled. The only thing he knew was how to get rebounds with his motor. And occasionally guard on the ball.

I feel that Kentan was the far superior player coming in, he was unfortunately wasted.

The bold clarifies the disagreement you have with my response to @joober jones. joober wrote this:

The article mentions Facey working out with Whaley a lot over the summer. Prior to reading that, I was just thinking to myself how much he reminded me of Facey in the exhibition game. I was semi-right about something for once. I'm a little scared.

I wrote this:

Whaley had more bb experience and IQ than Kentan arriving at UConn. But Kentan is taller and has better hops. It took four years before Kentan knew how to play team ball.

WTS the comparison is apt. Both have a nose for rebounding and decent mid range shooting.

The last sentence was the pertinent one for joober. It accurately describes the similarity to their skill sets.

This was how Kentan's high school coach described his play:

Facey is more of a factor on the defensive end of the floor right now thanks to his ability to rebound in traffic, block shots and run the floor to help his team. However, he has worked hard this spring on his jump hook and turnaround jumper as a counter move. His face-up game has also developed to the point where he can now make open jumpers out to 15 feet.

I left out the similarity to blocking shots. Even with that omission my comparison of the two players is far more accurate than the description of skills and comparison you offered as a rebuttal:

He might have started out late, but he was skilled. Billed as being able to hit the three, similar to Akok.

I never made a comparison who was the better player coming in. I stated it took four years before he understood positional play but deliberately chose not to get into why to avoid bringing in controversy. It's obvious that was a mistake. I won't comment about what role KO played in Facey's development. But I disagree with you which player was more lost on the court their freshman years. Whaley would lose his player on defense or fail to make a cut on offense that he should have made but Kentan had to be guided by his teammates to go to a place on the court. He had no clue where he should be never mind not understanding how to execute types of plays.

 

[Pmurph678]

Say what you want about Facey, but he was very good his senior year. Unfortunately he was on a team with limited talent and incompetent coaching.