Week 3, Women's College Basketball Rankings [Merged Thread] | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Week 3, Women's College Basketball Rankings [Merged Thread]

Anchor Town said:
Sure but Mississippi State is the #12 team in the country. So South Florida beat the #12 team in the country. South Florida has zero wins over teams that are in the top 10.
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I would say USF caused the ranking shift from #6 to #12. Don't know how the RPI looks at it, but it should be an average of 9....
Missippi State may recover should they stay near S. Carolina in the SEC standings, as there are 4 other ranked teams (including SC)... We'll see in Late January 2021 with the big games with UTA&M, Kentucky, & SC....
 
Anchor Town said:
Sure but Mississippi State is the #12 team in the country. So South Florida beat the #12 team in the country. South Florida has zero wins over teams that are in the top 10.
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So if next week MssSt goes to 10 then USF can again say they beat a top 10 team? I understand your point but teams and fans always claim the ranking at the time of the game. Even ESPN lists that ranking in their team results.
 
Alydar said:
So if next week MssSt goes to 10 then USF can again say they beat a top 10 team? I understand your point but teams and fans always claim the ranking at the time of the game. Even ESPN lists that ranking in their team results.
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Yes. The most accurate rankings are the current ones and those should be the ones referenced. Pre-season rankings are notoriously awful.
 
Anchor Town said:
Sure but Mississippi State is the #12 team in the country. So South Florida beat the #12 team in the country. South Florida has zero wins over teams that are in the top 10.
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...no, South Florida beat out #6 ranked Miss State...it's right in the box score.

1607393148613.png
 
mbr33ct said:
Any of the highlighted teams are worthy to fill the 24th and 25th spot. I didn't highlight North Carolina due to their lofty SOS Rank. There are others but this should be sufficient evidence.

View attachment 62135
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As a Washington fan...no they should not be ranked. Not after how bad they looked against Stanford yesterday.
 
mbr33ct said:
...no, South Florida beat out #6 ranked Miss State...it's right in the box score.

View attachment 62161
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And if you look at the rankings South Florida beat the #12 team in the country. Like I said, Indiana beating 2-5 Penn State is not Indiana beating a top 10 team. The logic is terrible.
 
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cbraarj said:
They go by the rankings when they played each other. It has been this way forever and it's not going to change. No. 1 South Carolina lost, No. 4 Baylor lost and No. 6 Mississippi lost.
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You and @Kaizen and @mbr33ct are of course 100% right. It's like saying "NC state's win over SC is not that big a deal - they beat a team not in the top 4". Um sorry, but SC was ranked #1 at the time, whether you think they were the #1 team or not.

Frankly I can't believe we are actually debating this. USF beat the team who was ranked #6 at the time and that's how the voters will look at that win. It's always been that way. It probably always will be that way. You can argue that Mississippi State is better or worse than their ranking at any time this season and whoever they play, that argument is completely irrelevant.

More than that, it's flat out wrong. The QUALITY of their win is based on beating the #6 team in the country. Period. It's not the least bit debatable as far as the ranking services go.

Hope that cleared it up...:confused:
 
Anchor Town said:
Yes. The most accurate rankings are the current ones and those should be the ones referenced. Pre-season rankings are notoriously awful.
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That was not the pre season ranking when USF beat Mississippi St, it was week #2 on the Polls.
 
EricLA said:
You and @Kaizen and @mbr33ct are of course 100% right. It's like saying "NC state's win over SC is not that big a deal - they beat a team not in the top 4". Um sorry, but SC was ranked #1 at the time, whether you think they were the #1 team or not.

Frankly I can't believe we are actually debating this. USF beat the team who was ranked #6 at the time and that's how the voters will look at that win. It's always been that way. It probably always will be that way. You can argue that Mississippi State is better or worse than their ranking at any time this season and whoever they play, that argument is completely irrelevant.

More than that, it's flat out wrong. The QUALITY of their win is based on beating the #6 team in the country. Period. It's not the least bit debatable as far as the ranking services go.

Hope that cleared it up...:confused:
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I am speechless to ... A Town. I think he is an allen alien from outer space.
 
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EricLA said:
You and @Kaizen and @mbr33ct are of course 100% right. It's like saying "NC state's win over SC is not that big a deal - they beat a team not in the top 4". Um sorry, but SC was ranked #1 at the time, whether you think they were the #1 team or not.

Frankly I can't believe we are actually debating this. USF beat the team who was ranked #6 at the time and that's how the voters will look at that win. It's always been that way. It probably always will be that way. You can argue that Mississippi State is better or worse than their ranking at any time this season and whoever they play, that argument is completely irrelevant.

More than that, it's flat out wrong. The QUALITY of their win is based on beating the #6 team in the country. Period. It's not the least bit debatable as far as the ranking services go.

Hope that cleared it up...:confused:
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I agree with you 100 percent! It was the BY Rookie who I posted that for Eric!
 
Y'all can all be right. USF beat #6 Mississippi St. However, for any collegiate sport, when it comes down to it, the selection committee uses the final ranking of teams when evaluating wins and losses.

So, if USF beat MSST when MSST was ranked #3 in the rpi (don't know their RPI, just using a hypothetical) and then MSST loses a bunch more and falls to 56 in the RPI by season end, USF is not credited with a top 5 win, they are credited with a win over #56 in the committee's eyes.

This is why in football right now, Notre Dame is hoping that North Carolina wins out so that they can count them as another top 25 win, as if they fall out of the top 25, it does not count to the seeding committee as a top 25 win and then their only top 25 win is against Clemson whom was without their starting quarterback..

This is true in any collegiate sport. Tournament and seeding selections are based on wins and losses against teams at their final ranking, not at the time played.

However, there is certainly truth in saying USF beat the #6 in the country. Selection committees just won't use that number and will use the final ranking at season end when evaluating a team's wins and losses.
 
EricLA said:
You and @Kaizen and @mbr33ct are of course 100% right. It's like saying "NC state's win over SC is not that big a deal - they beat a team not in the top 4". Um sorry, but SC was ranked #1 at the time, whether you think they were the #1 team or not.

Frankly I can't believe we are actually debating this. USF beat the team who was ranked #6 at the time and that's how the voters will look at that win. It's always been that way. It probably always will be that way. You can argue that Mississippi State is better or worse than their ranking at any time this season and whoever they play, that argument is completely irrelevant.

More than that, it's flat out wrong. The QUALITY of their win is based on beating the #6 team in the country. Period. It's not the least bit debatable as far as the ranking services go.

Hope that cleared it up...:confused:
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Nobody thinks that Indiana beat a top 10 team when looking at their win over Penn State. Maybe womens college basketball is behind the ball here but analysis has advanced from that archaic thinking.
 
MSGRET said:
That was not the pre season ranking when USF beat Mississippi St, it was week #2 on the Polls.
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Pre-season rankings lead to inaccuracies in early season polling. Hence why in college football they dont start ranking teams until like week 7 (playoff committee, the only ranking that matters)
 
Anchor Town said:
Pre-season rankings lead to inaccuracies in early season polling. Hence why in college football they dont start ranking teams until like week 7 (playoff committee, the only ranking that matters)
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College football has the worst playoffs in all of Div.1 College Sports!!!
 
It’s way too early, of course, but Massey has Oregon number one. Stay tuned.
 
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saywho said:
Y'all can all be right. USF beat #6 Mississippi St. However, for any collegiate sport, when it comes down to it, the selection committee uses the final ranking of teams when evaluating wins and losses.

So, if USF beat MSST when MSST was ranked #3 in the rpi (don't know their RPI, just using a hypothetical) and then MSST loses a bunch more and falls to 56 in the RPI by season end, USF is not credited with a top 5 win, they are credited with a win over #56 in the committee's eyes.

This is why in football right now, Notre Dame is hoping that North Carolina wins out so that they can count them as another top 25 win, as if they fall out of the top 25, it does not count to the seeding committee as a top 25 win and then their only top 25 win is against Clemson whom was without their starting quarterback..

This is true in any collegiate sport. Tournament and seeding selections are based on wins and losses against teams at their final ranking, not at the time played.

However, there is certainly truth in saying USF beat the #6 in the country. Selection committees just won't use that number and will use the final ranking at season end when evaluating a team's wins and losses.
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It is plain and simple.
USF beat MSST when MSST was ranked #6 on Dec. 2, 2020.
We didn't care what USF or MSST's rank in now or in the future or in next 10 years.
Easy enough?
 
Kaizen said:
It is plain and simple.
USF beat MSST when MSST was ranked #6 on Dec. 2, 2020.
We didn't care what USF or MSST's rank in now or in the future or in next 10 years.
Easy enough?
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Obviously I agree 100% with you and I will just add one (or 2) more things. I don't want to belabor or continue the argument...

I don't know how the RPI or other services look at it for their numbers, but when you look at the schedule of any team, at the end of the year, USF's schedule will say that on "X" date they beat #6 Mississippi State. 2nd, at the end of the year when Creme and the other "experts" are talking about seeding for the NCAA's, they will talk about USF's high quality win over "#6" Mississippi State.

Now I don't know what the NCAA seeding committee does behind closed doors - I've never seen anything in writing saying how they look at good wins or losses for seeding or making the tourney (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it), but if Creme and the other prognosticators are talking about USF's win over #6 MSU in March/April, it stands to logic that even if they drop out of the top 25, they still count the win as beating a top 10 team.

The RPI or other numerical statistics may calculate differently, but that's my recollection.
 
I agree with using the current ranking, as it should reflect better where a team 'really' should have been when they played other teams in the past. I also agree that polls don't work this way, because they can't - you don't know the current ranking until after the results of the poll you're voting on come out. Computer algorithms use the current ranking (ranking by their math - not rankings from a subjective poll) because that's really the only thing that makes sense.

I do think the polls have some validity though. IMO there really is something to the eye test. But this probably doesn't outweigh their many flaws - like the inertia to stay near your last week's ranking even after you get blown out and exposed by a nobody, or after you knock off the #1 team.
 
Anchor Town said:
Nobody thinks that Indiana beat a top 10 team when looking at their win over Penn State. Maybe womens college basketball is behind the ball here but analysis has advanced from that archaic thinking.
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Go look at any Indiana schedule and right now they still show a win over #8 Penn State. It's simply the convention. This is a point not worth arguing as it has already been settled.
 
Without looking it up! What year did No. 1 UConn lose a game and still hold the No. 1 rank for the whole year?
 
Jordy said:
It’s way too early, of course, but Massey has Oregon number one. Stay tuned.
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Massey uses last year for a while. As more games are played that diminishes until about game 10, when Massey is all this season.
 
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EricLA said:
Obviously I agree 100% with you and I will just add one (or 2) more things. I don't want to belabor or continue the argument...

I don't know how the RPI or other services look at it for their numbers, but when you look at the schedule of any team, at the end of the year, USF's schedule will say that on "X" date they beat #6 Mississippi State. 2nd, at the end of the year when Creme and the other "experts" are talking about seeding for the NCAA's, they will talk about USF's high quality win over "#6" Mississippi State.

Now I don't know what the NCAA seeding committee does behind closed doors - I've never seen anything in writing saying how they look at good wins or losses for seeding or making the tourney (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it), but if Creme and the other prognosticators are talking about USF's win over #6 MSU in March/April, it stands to logic that even if they drop out of the top 25, they still count the win as beating a top 10 team.

The RPI or other numerical statistics may calculate differently, but that's my recollection.
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Talking heads on ESPN might use the rankings when they played but the committee uses up to date rankings, obviously, for good reason. Never realized this was such an unknown and controversial take.
 
hoopsfan22 said:
Go look at any Indiana schedule and right now they still show a win over #8 Penn State. It's simply the convention. This is a point not worth arguing as it has already been settled.
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Just because a website is lazy doesnt mean they are correct.

Indiana has not beat a team that is ranked in the top 10.
Indiana beat a team that previously, before we had more insight and data, was ranked in the top 10.

Both are true, like the committee, I will use the most up to date rankings rather than the archaic ones. Do you think the committee uses week 2 RPI/SOS/SOR to evaluate teams or end of regular season RPI/SOS/SOR?

[ ]
 
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Anchor Town said:
Just because a website is lazy doesnt mean they are correct.

Indiana has not beat a team that is ranked in the top 10.
Indiana beat a team that previously, before we had more insight and data, was ranked in the top 10.

Both are true, like the committee, I will use the most up to date rankings rather than the archaic ones. Do you think the committee uses week 2 RPI/SOS/SOR to evaluate teams or end of regular season RPI/SOS/SOR?

[ ]
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It's not laziness, it's convention. The end.
 
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With all the cancelled games and more limited schedules, this year a single loss "could" wind up being a dis-qualifier for a number 1 seed in the tournament. In normal years that wouldn't be true, and it probably won't be this year either, but a few teams could go undefeated with fewer big games on their schedule.

It is hard to estimate, but my guess is 3 losses would pretty much rule out a top seed, two probably makes it very unlikely, and it is not inconceivable that one loss for a team not in the Power 5, might leave them outside the top four.

That magnifies the significance of every loss, because once you lose one or two, you may not be in control of your own destiny, at least for seeding purposes. You are dependent on others losing to get you back into the discussion for a top seed.
 
EricLA said:
You and @Kaizen and @mbr33ct are of course 100% right. It's like saying "NC state's win over SC is not that big a deal - they beat a team not in the top 4". Um sorry, but SC was ranked #1 at the time, whether you think they were the #1 team or not.

Frankly I can't believe we are actually debating this. USF beat the team who was ranked #6 at the time and that's how the voters will look at that win. It's always been that way. It probably always will be that way. You can argue that Mississippi State is better or worse than their ranking at any time this season and whoever they play, that argument is completely irrelevant.

More than that, it's flat out wrong. The QUALITY of their win is based on beating the #6 team in the country. Period. It's not the least bit debatable as far as the ranking services go.

Hope that cleared it up...:confused:
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We are only debating this because UCONN has not played yet.... : ( {sad face....}

It will all be cleared up once we have defeated Baylor for their 2nd (or third) loss of the season, particularly if Oregon State or UCLA can knock off Oregon, and Oregon can knock off Stanford for belated Christmas presents for all those on the Boneyard who are in favor of our UCONN Huskies!!!!

Wasn't the RPI to be replaced by NET something?!? [How's that going for them.....]

Maybe they should just replace it with the Boneyard ranking arguments.... LOL!
 
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