We need to play an actual front court

[MuchoDogYears]

Having read all posts, I summarily declare that nelsonmuntz and huskyhawk are unequivocably the truthsayers. Furthermore, they are forecasting the future look of BB, not the past or present as others here are doing.

 

[BlueDogs]

A lot of "analytics" coaches are phys ed majors that don't understand statistics, or specifically the difference between dependent and independent variables. Watch how Nova plays a 4 out vs. a lot of other teams. They get a lot of touches on post ups and cuts. They don't just swing it around the perimeter hoping someone will be open. The more easy layups Villanova gets, the more open their 3 point shooters are. That is playing analytics basketball.

Also, the more players there are on the perimeter, the easier it is to play help defense and stop penetration. Truly "spacing the court" means players set up or cutting to the paint.

I’ll agree Hurley’s offensive schemes have lacked good player movement and floor spacing. It’s very much token ball movement around the perimeter which breakdowns into guard iso(s) with people standing around the 3 in the back-half of the clock. I’d like to see more purposeful offense attacks earlier in the possession with more midrange looks, back door and baseline screening and kickouts with players in position to crash the boards.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I’ll agree Hurley’s offensive schemes have lacked good player movement and floor spacing. It’s very much token ball movement around the perimeter which breakdowns into guard iso(s) with people standing around the 3 in the back-half of the clock. I’d like to see more purposeful offense attacks earlier in the possession with more midrange looks, back door and baseline screening and kickouts with players in position to crash the boards.

I don't hate Hurley's offense, but there are inconsistencies. If he is going to lean that heavily on dribble penetration, I would like to see more crashing the boards. When Whaley or Carlton are crashing, UConn is a tough team to stop. Sanogo will probably be better on the boards than either of them pretty soon. UConn has two 6'11 players that don't even get on the court.

If UConn had Gordon, Anderson, Hamilton and Napier on the perimeter, I would say don't bother with offensive rebounding, UConn won't need it. UConn doesn't have that kind of shooting. UConn is an OK 3 point shooting team. Hurley likes dribble penetration, which means we need someone at the weakside block for the dump or the rebound. A short shot has about a 36% chance of an offensive board. That drops to the low 20's on a 3 pointer. Bouk, and it looks like Cole, will leave short rebounds when they do miss, which are easy putbacks.

Better yet, it is going to be Whaley's man that switches over for help, so he is going to be open on the weakside block a lot, just like he was yesterday. I do agree 100% that our 4 out has a lot of standing around at the 3 point line, or guard/guard screens on the perimeter, which aren't typically effective for any team.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

One other things about Nova. When a team shoots as well as Nova, the middle is WIDE OPEN for cuts and flashes. The inside game helps the outside game, and the outside game helps the inside game.

 

[BlueDogs]

One other things about Nova. When a team shoots as well as Nova, the middle is WIDE OPEN for cuts and flashes. The inside game helps the outside game, and the outside game helps the inside game.

In fairness we have had little to work with. Pushing the ball into Josh has been ineffective when it has been tried. We also haven’t had a true lights out 3 baller to pull defenders out. But, that all speaks to more rotational movement of players. Way too much standing and shuffling around the 3. It’s hard to crash the boards 30 feet out of position.

 

[auror]

2) UConn was playing a bad Central CT team. They should not be dictating anything UConn does.

Let's be clear: CCSU did not dictate our lineup.

We took advantage of the ability to have a size advantage while also having our most dynamic players on the court. Hurley optimized.

When you're rebounding over a 6'4" guy, a 6'6" guy at the 4 who also happens to be more athletic and has a longer wingspan will not have trouble. Putting in a 6'11 guy who can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, and can't defend the opponents at the point of attack or in space just so he will crash the boards and be a mediocre secondary rim protector when you're not forced to would be dumb. We got 19 offensive rebounds on 30 missed shots as is. The skill trade-off would not be worth it. We got to have our cake and eat it too.

Other games we won't be so fortunate. We'll have to play our less skilled and less dynamic bigs more minutes. Akok's return will help since he is both of those things. Villanova and Gonzaga are optimized with 3 forwards because they're all skilled. They're all triple threats to go along with their tree trunk legs and length. We don't have that luxury. We get closest to that personnel with 3 of Jackson/Polley/Martin/Whaley than by pairing any of our other bigs with Whaley at the 4.

 

[Ewekon]

I think we will eventually see Whaley/Sanago at the 5, Polley/Akok at the 4, Martin/Jackson at the 3 Bouknight/Adams at the 2 and Cole/Gafney at the 1. I think those lineups are plenty big and quick enough to compete.

Healthy AA will be literally a game changer

Just wait and then watch. His work ethic is outrageous.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Let's be clear: CCSU did not dictate our lineup.

We took advantage of the ability to have a size advantage while also having our most dynamic players on the court. Hurley optimized.

When you're rebounding over a 6'4" guy, a 6'6" guy at the 4 who also happens to be more athletic and has a longer wingspan will not have trouble. Putting in a 6'11 guy who can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, and can't defend the opponents at the point of attack or in space just so he will crash the boards and be a mediocre secondary rim protector when you're not forced to would be dumb. We got 19 offensive rebounds on 30 missed shots as is. The skill trade-off would not be worth it. We got to have our cake and eat it too.

Other games we won't be so fortunate. We'll have to play our less skilled and less dynamic bigs more minutes. Akok's return will help since he is both of those things. Villanova and Gonzaga are optimized with 3 forwards because they're all skilled. They're all triple threats to go along with their tree trunk legs and length. We don't have that luxury. We get closest to that personnel with 3 of Jackson/Polley/Martin/Whaley than by pairing any of our other bigs with Whaley at the 4.

If smaller is better, how come there are any bigs in college basketball? Are all these other coaches idiots? Why is Hurley playing a center at all?

I think a lot of the hate of the bigs by posters on this board is the result of ignorance about what actually makes winning basketball.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think we will eventually see Whaley/Sanago at the 5, Polley/Akok at the 4, Martin/Jackson at the 3 Bouknight/Adams at the 2 and Cole/Gafney at the 1. I think those lineups are plenty big and quick enough to compete.

That is a decent sized lineup. I could live with that. I don't want 4 players parked on the perimeter though. It makes it harder to shoot 3's.

 

[metsfan2323]

Nova’s starting 4 their last 2 titles were paschall and Jenkins.

Those dudes were tanks. Shorter yet stocky 4s who could shoot it a bit.

Not guards

Jackson isn't a guard, He's a prototype forward with an NBA body. Even at the next level he will probably be a 3.

Bouknight can pass as a 3 at the college level. Think RIP Hamilton. JB is also a much better rebounder than RIP.

BTW Any UCONN fan worth their salt should walk the world preaching the 3 guard lineup. Traditional front court? Blasphemer!

 

[auror]

If smaller is better, how come there are any bigs in college basketball? Are all these other coaches idiots? Why is Hurley playing a center at all?

I think a lot of the hate of the bigs by posters on this board is the result of ignorance about what actually makes winning basketball.

I didn't say smaller is better. I said our smaller and medium guys are better than our big guys. Carlton isn't very good and Sanogo just played his first career game with little practice. Whaley is pretty good. The other 2 bigs are currently even worse.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I think a small ball of Ajax/TMart/Akok/Bouk/Cole would be extremely tough to deal with and could see Dan Hurley going with this combo with the 5 being interchangeable Whaley/Sanogo/Akok. Only issue would be shooting although Bouk/Cole and to some extent Tmart can hit from the outside.

 

[the Q]

Jackson isn't a guard, He's a prototype forward with an NBA body. Even at the next level he will probably be a 3.

Bouknight can pass as a 3 at the college level. Think RIP Hamilton. JB is also a much better rebounder than RIP.

BTW Any UCONN fan worth their salt should walk the world preaching the 3 guard lineup. Traditional front court? Blasphemer!

i think our best lineup will probably be gaff/Cole/bouk/polley/Whaley

but Martin and Jackson coming in to spell the first 4 names means we have a lot of flexibility and versatility in the lineup and matchups

 

[nelsonmuntz]

i think our best lineup will probably be gaff/Cole/bouk/polley/Whaley

but Martin and Jackson coming in to spell the first 4 names means we have a lot of flexibility and versatility in the lineup and matchups

A lineup with 6'1, 6'2, and 6'4 players is going to have trouble trying to defend anyone for more than a few minutes in a row. Does defense matter anymore?

 

[HuskyHawk]

i think our best lineup will probably be gaff/Cole/bouk/polley/Whaley

but Martin and Jackson coming in to spell the first 4 names means we have a lot of flexibility and versatility in the lineup and matchups

I think we are clearly worse with Gaff and Cole playing together, unless one is in for Bouk (which shouldn’t be needed since Adams seems to have learned to shoot). I can see that late in games holding a lead. Otherwise no.

If a contact shy 3 point shooter who is a poor rebounder is our 4, we need a physical presence at the 3. Martin or Jackson. Martin is probably a better 4 than Polley. Polley was more effective last year when he was moved to the 3. Ultimately I don’t think Polley is one of our 5 best players and should provide shooting off the bench. But we need to see Martin in action.

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Ok. Case closed. 2nd half of UHart game Dan Hurley goes 4 guards and the team gets hammered

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I would like the posters in this thread to regale us with the benefits of 4 and 5 out offenses.

 

[navery12]

I would like the posters in this thread to regale us with the benefits of 4 and 5 out offenses.

You just watched 35 minutes of this team try to run an offense when nobody could hit an outside shot, and you think the solution is to clog the lane even more with non-shooters?

 

[superjohn]

I think we are clearly worse with Gaff and Cole playing together, unless one is in for Bouk (which shouldn’t be needed since Adams seems to have learned to shoot). I can see that late in games holding a lead. Otherwise no.

If a contact shy 3 point shooter who is a poor rebounder is our 4, we need a physical presence at the 3. Martin or Jackson. Martin is probably a better 4 than Polley. Polley was more effective last year when he was moved to the 3. Ultimately I don’t think Polley is one of our 5 best players and should provide shooting off the bench. But we need to see Martin in action.

Yep, Polley needs to be the sharpshooter off the bench. Starting him at the four is ridiculous when we have Whaley, Sanogo, Martin, and Jackson. It will be even more ridiculous once we get Akok back.

 

[superjohn]

You just watched 35 minutes of this team try to run an offense when nobody could hit an outside shot, and you think the solution is to clog the lane even more with non-shooters?

He thinks the solution is Josh Carlton.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You just watched 35 minutes of this team try to run an offense when nobody could hit an outside shot, and you think the solution is to clog the lane even more with non-shooters?

When you are proven this wrong, this quickly, you should just admit it. There are 9 pages across 2 threads over the last 2 days of me pointing out that 4 and 5 out small ball is hot garbage offense, and you were one of those attacking me. Then UConn does what it just did against the mighty Hartford Hawks.

Superjohn will be diametrically wrong on something and not admit it. Don't be Superjohn.

 

[Huskyforlife]

You just watched 35 minutes of this team try to run an offense when nobody could hit an outside shot, and you think the solution is to clog the lane even more with non-shooters?

More Josh Carlton would solve our offensive problems.

 

[Huskyforlife]

When you are proven this wrong, this quickly, you should just admit it. There are 9 pages across 2 threads over the last 2 days of me pointing out that 4 and 5 out small ball is hot garbage offense, and you were one of those attacking me. Then UConn does what it just did against the mighty Hartford Hawks.

Superjohn will be diametrically wrong on something and not admit it. Don't be Superjohn.

You'd make a terrific women's board poster.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

He thinks the solution is Josh Carlton.

I can not remember the last time one poster dunked on about 6 the way I just have through this Hartford game, and you are still trying to argue you are right on this. Small is better? Really?

 

[superjohn]

I can not remember the last time one poster dunked on about 6 the way I just have through this Hartford game, and you are still trying to argue you are right on this. Small is better? Really?

You are so clueless it isn't even funny. You started a thread to say you know more about offense than NBA coaches and from the threads and chats it's clear you don't even know the schemes you're watching and another season of you whining about how good Carlton is will be brutal. Nobody wants to hear it.

 

[superjohn]

You keep getting hung up on this idea everyone wants 4 guards which is not true. People want a 4 like Akok and Martin that is capable of stretching the floor

It's his act.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yes you should and will be attacked for suggesting Whaley and Carlton is a superior offense, it's not. I'm not saying tonight's lineup is the one we should be rolling with. Martin should be plugged in for Polley and eventually Jackson for one of the PGs.

You keep getting hung up on this idea everyone wants 4 guards which is not true. People want a 4 like Akok and Martin that is capable of stretching the floor

I make several points in the two threads:

1) We need 2 people inside to space the floor. The corollary of this is that 4 and 5 out offenses suck. MAYBE a 4 out works with just the right mix of players, but we don't have that mix, so we shouldn't do it.

2) Small ball doesn't work

3) Our perimeter defense sucks which makes small ball even more pointless

4) I know everyone doesn't want 4 guards, just those that were arguing with me in this thread, including you. We need a bigger team on the floor, and we need an inside threat.

In other words, we need to play an actual front court. Like I say in the title of the thread.

 

[navery12]

I make several points in the two threads:

1) We need 2 people inside to space the floor. The corollary of this is that 4 and 5 out offenses suck. MAYBE a 4 out works with just the right mix of players, but we don't have that mix, so we shouldn't do it.

2) Small ball doesn't work

3) Our perimeter defense sucks which makes small ball even more pointless

4) I know everyone doesn't want 4 guards, just those that were arguing with me in this thread, including you. We need a bigger team on the floor, and we need an inside threat.

In other words, we need to play an actual front court. Like I say in the title of the thread.

There's a lot to unpack here. I have not once argued for us to play 4 guards so stop with that ridiculousness.

Akok and Martin playing at the 4, do you consider that "small ball" that will never work?

 

[MuchoDogYears]

You just watched 35 minutes of this team try to run an offense when nobody could hit an outside shot, and you think the solution is to clog the lane even more with non-shooters?

How about “clogging the lane” with three 6’9” front court players who pound the boards and play volleyball against an overmatched opponent and hammer them physically with EASY putbacks and dunks? I thought the reason we recruited all these big talented players was to put a team on the floor that was not only more talented than the opponent at each position, but also bigger and stronger.

Small ball works great when the shots are falling. When they go cold, that team is going to get hammered inside and out, defensively and offensively, and on the boards. That got exposed tonight.

 

[navery12]

How about “clogging the lane” with three 6’9” front court players who pound the boards and play volleyball against an overmatched opponent and hammer them physically with EASY putbacks and dunks? I thought the reason we recruited all these big talented players was to put a team on the floor that was not only more talented than the opponent at each position, but also bigger and stronger.

Small ball works great when the shots are falling. When they go cold, that team is going to get hammered inside and out, defensively and offensively, and on the boards. That got exposed tonight.

Without knowing who you're talking about as these 6'9 players it's hard to say if that lineup works. What 3 6'9 players are you proposing we play together?

We recruited lots of new big talented players, but they're there to fill roles, not just throw them all out at once and hope for the best.