We got to make adjustments post-Atlantis…

[HuskyHawk]

I don’t read him saying it’s out of his control- he just said what anyone with two eyeballs can see. Handling is clearly a weakness for this team.

Good for him for recognizing it, now let’s see how he can put players in position to minimize those weaknesses

Yeah, this isn’t a big deal. The major mistake was Hurley not seeing how quickly teams would recognize it and adjust to press us more. This team is a press break machine is we stop trying to dribble up court. The length and athleticism is set to destroy anybody who presses it. It’s just tactical adjustments they need to make. They can no longer inbound to Cole, turn around and ignore him. Send Sanogo down court and then nobody else goes past half court. The 4 stands at center court the wings to the sides. I’d consider inbounding to Jackson to increase the threat of a long pass Cole probably can’t execute.

 

[auror]

Yeah, this isn’t a big deal. The major mistake was Hurley not seeing how quickly teams would recognize it and adjust to press us more. This team is a press break machine is we stop trying to dribble up court. The length and athleticism is set to destroy anybody who presses it. It’s just tactical adjustments they need to make. They can no longer inbound to Cole, turn around and ignore him. Send Sanogo down court and then nobody else goes past half court. The 4 stands at center court the wings to the sides. I’d consider inbounding to Jackson to increase the threat of a long pass Cole probably can’t execute.

Teams didn't adjust to press us. We just happened to play 2 of the probably 5 best/most frequent pressing teams in the country in 3 days.

Not saying future teams won't make the adjustment, obviously.

 

[jibsey]

I'm not a fan of Hurley's response re: Diggins. Maybe Diggins isn't ready and is a turnover machine under pressure in practice. Diggins is a game management guard rather than a speed break the press dribbler, maybe he would wilt under the defensive pressure. On the other hand, Gaffney did wilt, and Cole needed help that nobody was giving him. Diggins is on the team, should you really need to be 'in the rotation' on a regular basis in order to be called on to help when other guys are failing at your position in a particular game? Why? Coaches pull out all their starters at once when they come out flat, and they should. To me it is absurd to stay with players in a particular game when they are underperforming what they are capable of, just because they are 'in the rotation', unless the alternative is clearly not good enough. I'm not a fan of Hurley's stubbornness. Player after player has shown they can rise to the occasion and contribute when injury or other circumstance has forced Hurley to go to them. It kills me to see him keeping players with potential off the court. The Sanogo St Johns game last year still haunts me. Not having Hawkins on the court when we need a basket is starting to build frustration. We're going to get pressure from Marquette away this month, and I assume West Virginia away will show us pressure. Looks like we're going to wing it with guys that shouldn't be primary ball handlers.

Assume West Virginia will pressure? It will be worse than VCU. Huggins has seen the tape already.

 

[navery12]

Yeah, this isn’t a big deal. The major mistake was Hurley not seeing how quickly teams would recognize it and adjust to press us more. This team is a press break machine is we stop trying to dribble up court. The length and athleticism is set to destroy anybody who presses it. It’s just tactical adjustments they need to make. They can no longer inbound to Cole, turn around and ignore him. Send Sanogo down court and then nobody else goes past half court. The 4 stands at center court the wings to the sides. I’d consider inbounding to Jackson to increase the threat of a long pass Cole probably can’t execute.

And this is exactly what Hurley said. People keep posting the "we don't have ball handlers" quote but not the part after where he talked about since he doesn't have great ball handlers they've been able to actually practice the spacing and different strategies to break the press now that they're home from Atlantis

 

[MexicoHusky]

And this is exactly what Hurley said. People keep posting the "we don't have ball handlers" quote but not the part after where he talked about since he doesn't have great ball handlers they've been able to actually practice the spacing and different strategies to break the press now that they're home from Atlantis

We omit that part because it's irrelevant

 

[HuskyHawk]

Teams didn't adjust to press us. We just happened to play 2 of the probably 5 best/most frequent pressing teams in the country in 3 days.

Not saying future teams won't make the adjustment, obviously.

Ok, perhaps. But our tape showed it might work, and it did work because we hadn't adequately prepared to beat it. Teams that frequently press will stop if you torch the press. Not just get it across but make them pay. We settled for getting it up court, so they never backed down and we lost so much shot clock time.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

And this is exactly what Hurley said. People keep posting the "we don't have ball handlers" quote but not the part after where he talked about since he doesn't have great ball handlers they've been able to actually practice the spacing and different strategies to break the press now that they're home from Atlantis

So who's fault is it that we only have one ball handler in the rotation then?

 

[BlueMAB]

Ok, perhaps. But our tape showed it might work, and it did work because we hadn't adequately prepared to beat it. Teams that frequently press will stop if you torch the press. Not just get it across but make them pay. We settled for getting it up court, so they never backed down and we lost so much shot clock time.

At this level, it isn't easy to become a pressing team if that hasn't been part of your team's DNA. There are multiple ways to press, full court man, full court man with trapping, different zone presses.... if coaches don't press, it's usually for a reason (philosophy/bench/talent).

They might introduce a token press/man, but those will, by definition, be easier to beat.

 

[navery12]

So who's fault is it that we only have one ball handler in the rotation then?

I wouldn't say it's anybody's fault, but it was Hurley's choice. He chose to value continuity over adding a transfer PG, can't say I'd have made the same choice but there's a reason I'm not being paid $3M to make that choice. And now he's making the adjustments to make it work like we all ask him to

 

[Hungryhusky99]

I wouldn't say it's anybody's fault, but it was Hurley's choice. He chose to value continuity over adding a transfer PG, can't say I'd have made the same choice but there's a reason I'm not being paid $3M to make that choice. And now he's making the adjustments to make it work like we all ask him to

Ok...so maybe recruit a freshman who was ready to play or play the ones that you have?

 

[Umami Zen]

For those who haven't listened to @Rob Dauster's Top Dogs OP/ podcast..It's worth a listen. One of the points he makes and I'm beginning to see his point is that Dan Hurley likes what his starting lineup of Cole/Martin/Jackson/Whaley /Sanogo gives him. Tough D/Boards/blend of leadership and athletes. Sacrifices some efficiencies on O but gets that from his bench players (Hawk/Polley/Gaff).

The ship has sailed for a transfer PG--Have to go with who is in your locker room this year. Why isn't Diggins getting run? My guess is its either he is not fully recovered from his injury or he has shown he is a defensive liability in practice. Obviously his CBB game experience is a concern. Auburn/MSU/VCU and their defenses are going to challenge teams. 2-1 with a winnable loss without a starter isn't bad for Nov.

Dan Hurley is a loyal guy-Likes what Gaff brings to the table

 

[BlueMAB]

Ok...so maybe recruit a freshman who was ready to play or play the ones that you have?

I may be misinterpreting your tone... but come off it.

Where were you when we landed the 12th best PG in the country, the 8th best player in the region, the 2nd best player in Pennsylvania. The kid ranked 58th overall by ESPN?

The kid (who was injured and missed time in the preseason) who had offers from Florida, Kansas, Miami, Penn State, Rutgers, Seton Hall, Villanova, and Xavier (among others)?

Were you sounding the alarm that we needed someone even better who was ready to step in and play, or are you just making the argument now out of convenience?

 

[Chin Diesel]

This stubborness that head coaches have shows the difference between them and us fans. Dan H made it very clear in those interviews he doesn't think Diggins has earned the PT based on what Diggins has shown in practices.

Us fans think Cole will need some rest or further on down the road this season injuries or foul trouble is going to throw Diggins in to a game and us fans would prefer Diggins have gotten some run against early cupcakes. Seems simple enough. Some might even suggest it could light a fire under Gaff's tush to perform better or slide down the bench if he gets out performed. I also suspect between Hurley and his coaches that have also contemplated these scenarios and have decided not to play Diggins.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

I may be misinterpreting your tone... but come off it.

Where were you when we landed the 12th best PG in the country, the 8th best player in the region, the 2nd best player in Pennsylvania. The kid ranked 58th overall by ESPN?

The kid (who was injured and missed time in the preseason) who had offers from Florida, Kansas, Miami, Penn State, Rutgers, Seton Hall, Villanova, and Xavier (among others)?

Were you sounding the alarm that we needed someone even better who was ready to step in and play, or are you just making the argument now out of convenience?

No. Guard was clearly a concern coming into the year, anyone could have told you that. My point is that if the staff does not want to use the portal (which I am fine with) they are going to have to learn to trust the freshman to play more minutes. They are recruiting at a level that should allow that.

 

[navery12]

This stubborness that head coaches have shows the difference between them and us fans. Dan H made it very clear in those interviews he doesn't think Diggins has earned the PT based on what Diggins has shown in practices.

Us fans think Cole will need some rest or further on down the road this season injuries or foul trouble is going to throw Diggins in to a game and us fans would prefer Diggins have gotten some run against early cupcakes. Seems simple enough. Some might even suggest it could light a fire under Gaff's tush to perform better or slide down the bench if he gets out performed. I also suspect between Hurley and his coaches that have also contemplated these scenarios and have decided not to play Diggins.

I also think there's a difference (at least for me) between UMES/Grambling and Atlantis. I'll be a little annoyed if he doesn't get 5-10 minutes of real playing time this week, hard for me to be mad he wasn't thrown into the fire trying to break Auburn or VCU's press

 

[dennismenace]

That's what he got in garbage minutes in our blowouts. If Hurley just gives him those garbage minutes again in these next two after what we saw from Gaff in Atlantis we'll have a reason to be upset. He needs real minutes.

Agree. If ever there was a time to give him minutes it's NOW. He needs a reasonable time to get used to being on the floor without worrying about a quick hook. We don't want to wait to see what he's got in the middle of conference play when someone gets injured. I think this a calculated risk with a lot of potential upside than doing same old same old. There are always going to be risks but some can be considered to have high payoff if they work and little downside if they don't. Can't always be rigid when you have someone with the potential of a Diggins. The more he plays the more confidence he will have. He's been considered a gamer prior to college and I believe in that kind of presence on the floor.

 

[tennmike]

This stubborness that head coaches have shows the difference between them and us fans. Dan H made it very clear in those interviews he doesn't think Diggins has earned the PT based on what Diggins has shown in practices.

His assertion is hard to fathom at times. Does that mean Whaley wasn't a good practice player before he was pressed into service...and then never left? And Bouk's slow(ish) assimilation - relative to his overall skill? And Sonogo wasn't a good practice player last year and then he vastly improved? I suspect all coaches talk about the "practice performance" stuff as a way to tamp down criticism.

 

[BlueMAB]

they are going to have to learn to trust the freshman to play more minutes.

Why? Because you know for a fact the results would have been different/better/worse?

More than anyone else, the coaches know who is capable of what. They know what they are trying to accomplish and how. They aren't infallible, and it's reasonable to question their decisions. But you and others are posting as if you know more then they do.

 

[UCfor3]

I also think there's a difference (at least for me) between UMES/Grambling and Atlantis. I'll be a little annoyed if he doesn't get 5-10 minutes of real playing time this week, hard for me to be mad he wasn't thrown into the fire trying to break Auburn or VCU's press

This is where I am at. I didn't expect him to be inserted at Atlantis. He should get a little run these next two games however. Nothing crazy. Just a couple minutes here and there so it's not a complete baptism by fire once we get into conference play. It's a long season. Guys get injured, get in foul trouble. It's an investment in the future. The whole not ready thing against MES or Grambling St seems dubious for a top 60 recruit. To me it sounds like coach is not ready to give him time. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but if we continue to struggle from lack of ball handling or Cole starts wearing down... I hope he is flexible enough to make the adjustment. To me it was telling how reluctant Dan Hurley was to playing Gaff and Akok in Atlantis. Was it a style of opponent thing or a lack of confidence, or a little of both? Time will tell. Regardless, with Samson and Diggins waiting in the wings as the season unfolds, Gaff and Akok have a lot to prove. Hope they do but am also glad we have talented alternatives hopefully getting better every day waiting in the wings for their opportunity.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

Why? Because you know for a fact the results would have been different/better/worse?

More than anyone else, the coaches know who is capable of what. They know what they are trying to accomplish and how. They aren't infallible, and it's reasonable to question their decisions. But you and others are posting as if you know more then they do.

It took the staff 3 months and injuries before they started Bouk.... Also took the Akok and Polley injuries to get Whaley pt and figure out that he was the best big on the roster at the time.

 

[Huskyforlife]

It took the staff 3 months and injuries before they started Bouk.... Also took the Akok and Polley injuries to get Whaley pt and figure out that he was the best big on the roster at the time.

This is something I think about a lot. I have to wonder if Bouk would've started had he not messed up before the season. The Whaley situation has to be a staff blunder.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This is something I think about a lot. I have to wonder if Bouk would've started had he not messed up before the season. The Whaley situation has to be a staff blunder.

The Whaley situation is that he wasn't very good at anything except rebounding. He busted his tail to improve. Carlton was vastly better.

 

[imno1]

I’m confident that adjustments will be made and while the team may struggle with the press from time to time I think they will solve it more times than not. We are 6-1 to start the season with a chance to be 10-1 or 9-2 entering conference play. I’m not ready to bitch and moan about anything yet.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

The Whaley situation is that he wasn't very good at anything except rebounding. He busted his tail to improve. Carlton was vastly better.

That is just not accurate at all

 

[navery12]

This is something I think about a lot. I have to wonder if Bouk would've started had he not messed up before the season. The Whaley situation has to be a staff blunder.

Hurley has admitted he messed up and had no idea Whaley could do this, but also took a ton of work from Whaley.

I tend to agree on Bouknight, he would have started earlier without the issues. Just looking at box scores it took about a month and a half for him to start once he played, and it was a pretty natural progression from 15-20 minutes off the bench to mid 20s to him starting and playing 30+ minutes. Seems like Hawkins is on the same track minutes wise so far too

 

[superjohn]

Hurley has admitted he messed up and had no idea Whaley could do this, but also took a ton of work from Whaley.

I tend to agree on Bouknight, he would have started earlier without the issues. Just looking at box scores it took about a month and a half for him to start once he played, and it was a pretty natural progression from 15-20 minutes off the bench to mid 20s to him starting and playing 30+ minutes. Seems like Hawkins is on the same track minutes wise so far too

There's no way of knowing if kids are good enough until you give them real minutes in games. There's sometimes a couple of kids at the end of the bench who don't really belong and are just practice players but Diggins and Samson clearly aren't that. They need to get more than garbage minutes, these next two games are important for that.

Slow playing it with guys like Bouknight and Hawkins is a strange strategy considering you know the max you'll have them for is two seasons. Hurley seems to lean towards veterans and has been open about not liking mistakes made on the court but when you have supreme talents you should live with the mistakes because what they bring to the table totally outweighs the mistakes. It's not like the veterans aren't making mistakes either.

I'm expecting the freshmen to play a lot tonight.