Way too early mock WNBA draft from ESPN

[MooseJaw]

The WNBA is where players go to disappear. There is nowhere in the pros that have the rivalries like WCBB has, nowhere in the pros that draw the attendance numbers like the top college teams. There is nowhere in the pros that showcase the players like WCBB has. My gut tells me that there is nowhere in the pros where the top WCBB can and do make the biggest bucks.
You want excitement you don't think the WNBA you think UCONN, SC, LSU, UT and other teams that provide the greatest rivalry games and top player and team matchups. And that's the rest of the story!

 

[UConnCat]

Did it motivate her to develop a 10-foot jump shot?

 

[visitingcock]

The WNBA is where players go to disappear. There is nowhere in the pros that have the rivalries like WCBB has, nowhere in the pros that draw the attendance numbers like the top college teams. There is nowhere in the pros that showcase the players like WCBB has. My gut tells me that there is nowhere in the pros where the top WCBB can and do make the biggest bucks.
You want excitement you don't think the WNBA you think UCONN, SC, LSU, UT and other teams that provide the greatest rivalry games and top player and team matchups. And that's the rest of the story!

I dunno bout the showcasing players part. Vegas v NY showcases a bunch of talent and either team would beat the shorts offa any college team of this, last, or the year before last. Wilson, Plum vs Stewart, Ionescu alone would dominate college ball

The WNBA championship rivals of the future will be making the endorsement bucks they are getting now for NIL plus their own growth in endorsement value as a pro plus their salaries.

Now, I , like you, prefer the college game. I like seeing them progress from girls to young women More then watching them as full grown adult women. Same goes for other sports as well. But I can’t undervalue how good pro players are. They are the cream of the college crops.

 

[Dillon77]

The WNBA is where players go to disappear. There is nowhere in the pros that have the rivalries like WCBB has, nowhere in the pros that draw the attendance numbers like the top college teams. There is nowhere in the pros that showcase the players like WCBB has. My gut tells me that there is nowhere in the pros where the top WCBB can and do make the biggest bucks.
You want excitement you don't think the WNBA you think UCONN, SC, LSU, UT and other teams that provide the greatest rivalry games and top player and team matchups. And that's the rest of the story!

Just where are they disappearing to, @MooseJaw ?
I watched two semi-final games on a major sports network that showcased the best of players that had matriculated from many of the schools that you've mentioned and they were putting on a pretty damn good show.

And those players -- not the collegians -- will be the ones chosen to represent the United States at major international competitions, such as the Olympics and World Cup.

Do some top players in college make a lot of money in NIL? Sure do. However, top player salaries in the WNBA are starting to get higher and will continue to do so once the collective bargaining agreement is redone in 2025. Plus they're getting exposure.

Like @vistingcock, I accept and respect your preference for collegiate basketball for many of the reasons you cite.
(However, with more liberal transfer rules and NIL money, I bet collegiate fans even have an evolving viewpoint of what is a traditional collegiate experience for player and fan alike)

The one point I'll give you is attendance. Both semi-final games yesterday were attended by some 9500 people (or just north/south of that figure). Here are your top five (and more in the link):
South Carolina Gamecocks – 12,942
Iowa Hawkeyes – 11,143
Iowa State Cyclones – 10,323
UConn Huskies – 10,255
Louisville Cardinals – 8,779

South Carolina, Iowa lead women's college basketball in attendance in 2022-23 season

.

www.on3.com

As for me, I like both games. There are differences, of course; namely the players at the top level are better, but I have a more emotional tie to one collegiate team in particular. But I'll enjoy both.

Incidentally, I think the pro game will get more franchises, more players and more interest shortly. The story is not done being written....

 

[MooseJaw]

Just where are they disappearing to, @MooseJaw ?
I watched two semi-final games on a major sports network that showcased the best of players that had matriculated from many of the schools that you've mentioned and they were putting on a pretty damn good show.

And those players -- not the collegians -- will be the ones chosen to represent the United States at major international competitions, such as the Olympics and World Cup.

Do some top players in college make a lot of money in NIL? Sure do. However, top player salaries in the WNBA are starting to get higher and will continue to do so once the collective bargaining agreement is redone in 2025. Plus they're getting exposure.

Like @vistingcock, I accept and respect your preference for collegiate basketball for many of the reasons you cite.
(However, with more liberal transfer rules and NIL money, I bet collegiate fans even have an evolving viewpoint of what is a traditional collegiate experience for player and fan alike)

The one point I'll give you is attendance. Both semi-final games yesterday were attended by some 9500 people (or just north/south of that figure). Here are your top five (and more in the link):
South Carolina Gamecocks – 12,942
Iowa Hawkeyes – 11,143
Iowa State Cyclones – 10,323
UConn Huskies – 10,255
Louisville Cardinals – 8,779

South Carolina, Iowa lead women's college basketball in attendance in 2022-23 season

.

www.on3.com

As for me, I like both games. There are differences, of course; namely the players at the top level are better, but I have a more emotional tie to one collegiate team in particular. But I'll enjoy both.

Incidentally, I think the pro game will get more franchises, more players and more interest shortly. The story is not done being written....

So you were the guy who went, I wonder who the other one was. Sorry I don't buy that there is a large demand for the WNBA. I find the ladies only slightly better than the NBA ball hogs. What I love about WCBB is the whole package, team loyalty, team spirit, school affiliation, natural and unnatural rivalries. I have no problem with you liking the WNBA, I do watch parts of some games, just can't stay interested for very long. I ask you and please don't fib to yourself, if UCONN were on tv in a rerun playing any team, would you turn them off to watch a women's pro team? If so you may very well be the only one that I know of.

 

[visitingcock]

So you were the guy who went, I wonder who the other one was. Sorry I don't buy that there is a large demand for the WNBA. I find the ladies only slightly better than the NBA ball hogs. What I love about WCBB is the whole package, team loyalty, team spirit, school affiliation, natural and unnatural rivalries. I have no problem with you liking the WNBA, I do watch parts of some games, just can't stay interested for very long. I ask you and please don't fib to yourself, if UCONN were on tv in a rerun playing any team, would you turn them off to watch a women's pro team? If so you may very well be the only one that I know of.

I would be with Dillon even if the rerun was a Gamecock game . Okay, I’m not gonna watch a WNBA game between two bad teams unless Aliya Boston is on one of those bad teams.

Ball hogs? Like Paige’s frosh year? Or Clark last year?

 

[nwhoopfan]

What I love about WCBB is the whole package, team loyalty, team spirit, school affiliation, natural and unnatural rivalries.

Uh...I think that is largely gone now thanks to NIL, the transfer portal and conference realignment. College sports is dramatically different than what it was just a couple years ago.

 

[Dezoworld]

If you want a potential superstar, you take Clark. If you want a potential superstar with injury history, you take Paige.

Don't forget that potential star can easily get injured to. God forbid. Don't let it happen. We want to see all players injured free and playing at their best

 

[Alydar]

I would be with Dillon even if the rerun was a Gamecock game . Okay, I’m not gonna watch a WNBA game between two bad teams unless Aliya Boston is on one of those bad teams.

Ball hogs? Like Paige’s frosh year? Or Clark last year?

In her freshman season Bueckers was 81st in fg's attempted(14.5). Zia Cooke took more shots that year. Last year Clark led the nation in assists/game. Did Kobe ever lead the NBA in assists? he used to regularly go 9-25, with a half dozen trips to the line.

 

[Cuango]

Quite a big 'if' there, Cuango. However, even overlooking that for a second, did you not watch Caitlin play last season?

Each person is free to make her or his judgment, but as great as Paige was/could be again, Caitlin was very likely as good last season as any women's college basketball player ever has been, and the 35-foot 3s were just a small part of her performances.

Just as Paige’s freshman season was likely as good or better than any women’s college basketball freshman has ever been.

 

[cancontent]

So you were the guy who went, I wonder who the other one was. Sorry I don't buy that there is a large demand for the WNBA. I find the ladies only slightly better than the NBA ball hogs. What I love about WCBB is the whole package, team loyalty, team spirit, school affiliation, natural and unnatural rivalries. I have no problem with you liking the WNBA, I do watch parts of some games, just can't stay interested for very long. I ask you and please don't fib to yourself, if UCONN were on tv in a rerun playing any team, would you turn them off to watch a women's pro team? If so you may very well be the only one that I know of.

The demand for WNBA coverage is growing as seen in TV ratings over the last couple years. It will likely continue as players like Bueckers, Clark and others from these upcoming classes move into the pros.

Sure the WNBA isn't for everyone but your comment about how they become ball hogs after leaving college doesn't make sense, especially after seeing the assist numbers this season for some players. If it's not your style, cool, but a lot of these players have gotten better since leaving college. You're selling a lot of good players short in my opinion.

 

[Dillon77]

So you were the guy who went, I wonder who the other one was. Sorry I don't buy that there is a large demand for the WNBA. I find the ladies only slightly better than the NBA ball hogs. What I love about WCBB is the whole package, team loyalty, team spirit, school affiliation, natural and unnatural rivalries. I have no problem with you liking the WNBA, I do watch parts of some games, just can't stay interested for very long. I ask you and please don't fib to yourself, if UCONN were on tv in a rerun playing any team, would you turn them off to watch a women's pro team? If so you may very well be the only one that I know of.

- Even after two coffees, I'm not sure what you're referencing above. Could you please explain?

- Ballhogs? As @cancontent noted, assists and passing in the WNBA are up. It's one reason I like watching the game, to see point guards like Courtney Vandersloot, Chelsea Gray, Courtney Williams, Lindsay Allen, Natasha Cloud and others look for their teammates. And add a forward like Ayssa Thomas who passes, shoots and rebounds. Great all-round play.

- As for the replay question, you've surely noted the picture and description above and below my tagline? If there's any replay of a college game I'll watch, it will be Notre Dame. If UConn is the opponent, all the better. And if it's up against a late-season match of, say, Phoenix vs Atlanta, I'm there! But otherwise, I'm watching the WNBA playoffs.
But let's draw an easy line in the viewing sand: the two seasons don't overlap, so this is a non-starter for me and for a lot of us who like all WBB.

Lastly (at least for this thread), ND just started official practice yesterday, so the Irish ar officially starting the 2023-24 season. Go college basketball! (but I'll be watching the WNBA semi's tonight )

 

[The deacon]

Just as Paige’s freshman season was likely as good or better than any women’s college basketball freshman has ever been.

Well said, Cuango.

My fantasy for individual player performance this coming season would be for Caitlin to be every bit as good as she was last season, and that Paige makes such an outrageously great comeback that they battle down to the wire for NPOY.

(and they both announce they'll be back in WCBB for the '24-25 season!)

 

[Dillon77]

Well said, Cuango.

My fantasy for individual player performance this coming season would be for Caitlin to be every bit as good as she was last season, and that Paige makes such an outrageously great comeback that they battle down to the wire for NPOY.

(and they both announce they'll be back in WCBB for the '24-25 season!)

If the Collective Bargaining Agreement that is due to take place in 2025 kicks in before the start of the season (encompassing the 2025 draftees), I've got to think a whole lot of current seniors will kick in Covid/injury years to hang around until then. The CBA could/should lift up entry-level salaries in some manner. Even though NIL offsets that for many of these stars, it still helps a bit. And, who knows, the terms of the rookie agreement could be shortened, as well.

Stay tuned.

 

[Cuango]

- Even after two coffees, I'm not sure what you're referencing above. Could you please explain?

- Ballhogs? As @cancontent noted, assists and passing in the WNBA are up. It's one reason I like watching the game, to see point guards like Courtney Vandersloot, Chelsea Gray, Courtney Williams, Lindsay Allen, Natasha Cloud and others look for their teammates. And add a forward like Ayssa Thomas who passes, shoots and rebounds. Great all-round play.

- As for the replay question, you've surely noted the picture and description above and below my tagline? If there's any replay of a college game I'll watch, it will be Notre Dame. If UConn is the opponent, all the better. And if it's up against a late-season match of, say, Phoenix vs Atlanta, I'm there! But otherwise, I'm watching the WNBA playoffs.
But let's draw an easy line in the viewing sand: the two seasons don't overlap, so this is a non-starter for me and for a lot of us who like all WBB.

Lastly (at least for this thread), ND just started official practice yesterday, so the Irish ar officially starting the 2023-24 season. Go college basketball! (but I'll be watching the WNBA semi's tonight )

I believe MooseJaw was jokingly implying that you were the second of two spectators?

 

[MooseJaw]

I believe MooseJaw was jokingly implying that you were the second of two spectators?

Thank you Cuango, yes, I was joking, something that seems to be in short supply on the BY. I try not to be wired so tight that the littlest things get my undies in a bundle. On most of my posts I try to take a lighter side. I'am not interested in 6 paragraphs on every stat or each play on the court or in the BY. I enjoy trying to start thought and discussions on players and games. I find sarcasm essential in life, for me the best comedy. I understand that a lot of BY members enjoy one stat after another, and that's OK. there are many reasons to enjoy the BY while gravitating to the threads and post that hit home for each member. I respect everyone's tilt and perspective. almost all members, expect the spies from places like ND, SC or LSU are on the BY because they love, enjoy, and are hooked on the greatest all-time leader of WCBB, our Huskies.

 

[CL82]

That's why I noted the Collective Bargaining Agreement is up in 2025. If that affects incoming rookies that season, there could be a serious bump there, given how much NIL has affected who earns what...

I'm not sure that's how it works. I would suggest that the salary pool is more closely aligned with WNBA profitability. Suggesting that somehow just because people are able to make more money through NIL means that more money would automatically be available in the WNBA probably is incorrect.

 

[visitingcock]

Thank you Cuango, yes, I was joking, something that seems to be in short supply on the BY. I try not to be wired so tight that the littlest things get my undies in a bundle. On most of my posts I try to take a lighter side. I'am not interested in 6 paragraphs on every stat or each play on the court or in the BY. I enjoy trying to start thought and discussions on players and games. I find sarcasm essential in life, for me the best comedy. I understand that a lot of BY members enjoy one stat after another, and that's OK. there are many reasons to enjoy the BY while gravitating to the threads and post that hit home for each member. I respect everyone's tilt and perspective. almost all members, expect the spies from places like ND, SC or LSU are on the BY because they love, enjoy, and are hooked on the greatest all-time leader of WCBB, our Huskies.

I’ll concede being hooked on the greatest wbb board in the world. I’d argue about the rest even if I know it’s a losing argument just to stir the pot a bit. Right @Dillon77 ?

 

[Dillon77]

I'm not sure that's how it works. I would suggest that the salary pool is more closely aligned with WNBA profitability. Suggesting that somehow just because people are able to make more money through NIL means that more money would automatically be available in the WNBA probably is incorrect.

Sigh. My initial comment on this whole give and take had more to do with why a person making decent NIL money would want to go into the WNBA to take a rather paltry starting rookie salary in 2024. My shorthand comment here mixes and matches a few previous comments and, upon reviewing, looks wrong. They're not tied together.

What I was saying over a number of posts are:

- The CBA is being re-negotiated in 2025, which is one reason why so many players who extended their contracts until 2025. Yes, of course the league is going to bargain based on profitability (and even projected profitability).
However, if things go well for all concerned, starting salaries could be adjusted upwards, perhaps enough...

- To join with/augment the NIL monies that certain players are earning, making the WNBA a more palatable choice.
After the Covid exemptions end, there's really no choice, but that's another story.

 

[Skeets]

I personally enjoy the input from BY visitors. Maybe Nan cleans up the crap before we ever see it?

 

[Dillon77]

I’ll concede being hooked on the greatest wbb board in the world. I’d argue about the rest even if I know it’s a losing argument just to stir the pot a bit. Right @Dillon77 ?

To paraphrase those eternal hoops philosophers, The Talking Heads: "Same as it ever was."

 

[Happydad745]

The WNBA is ready to expand and the new team would be in San Francisco by 2025.....how many picks does a new team get?

 

[From France]

The WNBA is ready to expand and the new team would be in San Francisco by 2025.....how many picks does a new team get?

If I rememeber correctly One from each existing team (Players not cored), & then one from eash round

 

[jdote33]

There were plenty of doubts in the preseason. Raven played some in the early season, but her starts didn’t happen til the stretch run. There are still questions about whether she is 100% what she was before the injury. Plus, Raven has been injured once. It’s twice for Paige.

The pros are unemotional. They look at everything. And it will be a factor they consider, If they consider Paige and Clark equal, 11 teams would choose Clark because of Paiges’ injury history - unless Minnesota trades for the first choice. It would cost them but I could see them trying it to get Paige to sell more tickets.

Was randomly thinking about this today. I think cuz I was impressed with some recent interviews of Raven Johnson. I forgot that this is her 3rd year of college basketball. She really could have more of a breakout season than ppl are anticipating.

 

[visitingcock]

Was randomly thinking about this today. I think cuz I was impressed with some recent interviews of Raven Johnson. I forgot that this is her 3rd year of college basketball. She really could have more of a breakout season than ppl are anticipating.

Really only her second year of basketball because she blew out her knee in the second game of her freshman year

 

[jdote33]

Really only her second year of basketball because she blew out her knee in the second game of her freshman year

Right but I think the year helps. I thought she didn't look overwhelmed really last year. I think she'll step into the starting slot this year with a lot of confidence. She could be the legit second best player on the team. I wonder if Dawn expects that.

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-womens-basketball/article279892729.html

 

[cancontent]

Was randomly thinking about this today. I think cuz I was impressed with some recent interviews of Raven Johnson. I forgot that this is her 3rd year of college basketball. She really could have more of a breakout season than ppl are anticipating.

She showed great composure during the FIBA Americas. Looking forward to see how this translates on the court with the team this season.

 

[Bone Dog]

She could be the legit second best player on the team. I wonder if Dawn expects that.

Dawn didn’t use her enough last year. Could be she just didn’t show enough in practice, or that Zia’s value to the team went beyond scoring and defense.

 

[HopJim]

Agree that right now you probably take Clark over Paige (well, I would take Paige but I think most non UCONN fans would reasonably take Clark). But it’s pretty easy to imagine Paige having a season that would make her a clear number 1. The biggest thing preventing that is how loaded the rest of the team is.

This draft is projected based on the player's results over a full year. If Paige and UConn win the Champtionship, you pick Paige #1. Otherwise, its a coin flip based on how she and Clark do.

 

[Cuango]

Dawn didn’t use her enough last year. Could be she just didn’t show enough in practice, or that Zia’s value to the team went beyond scoring and defense.

I think people that think SC is going to be vulnerable this season are delusional! First, they have one of the three or four best coaches in the country. They have a big who is 6’7”, already experienced in their system, and who has something to prove after playing behind Boston for two seasons, a returning from injury point guard who was #2 in her class behind only our own Azzi Fudd and who apparrently has been getting rave reviews as the SC season nears. They also have Chloe Kitts who imo may have been the best player on the recent u19 USA team that won gold. She is 6’2”/6’3” and is going to be a big problem for Gamecock opponents this season! Oh, and did I mention they got one of the best three point shooters from the portal in Tehina Paopao (42.4% last season)! They also have a veritable stable of big, highly ranked players (including Kitts) and to top it off, they have a smaller version of our own KK Arnold in Malaysia Fulwiley, the third ranked pg in 2022. She is supposedly even faster than Arnold! (Not better, thank God, but faster).
I’d better stop, as I’m beginning to scare myself!
l still think we’re better, but the more I look at their program, the more I think they are right up there with us and LSU! Furthermore, though I was thinking Dawn’s stranglehold on the SEC women was in jeopardy with Kim’s portal haul, I’m not so sure abut that anymore. I think I’m still gonna go with Dawn’s squad to win the SEC!