Way too early mock WNBA draft from ESPN

[Dillon77]

I can't really even look at the projected picks for a variety of reasons, some of which have been mentioned, some of which have not.

• One that has is that this is the last year players affected by the Covid policies can play that card, so to speak, and stay an extra year.
• NIL money and other circumstances. Who is making big/steady money? Who wants to get a freebie year of grad school?
• The WNBA collective bargaining agreement is done in 2025. It's one reason why so many players are signing two year deals with their current teams. Could terms of the CBA also affect incoming players in a way to make staying in college a smart move from 2024-25?
• Expansion. Angel Reese and others' topic: give us more chances to play (by upping the amount of slots in the league). This won't happen in 2024, but 2025? Let's hope so.

Fully expect Covid-affected players and their coaches from Clark and Bueckers to Maddy Westbeld to be very attentive to these issues right up to the deadline of declaring their readiness to go pro or stay on campus. To paraphrase those English philophers Joe Stummer and Mick Jones, "should I stay or should I go?"

 

[Dillon77]

Just wanted to add as far as draft depth goes, it's kinda crazy. No Ayoka Lee on this list (Ms 60+ points in a game). No Mackenzie Holmes (sounds crazy but still think she deserved big 10 player of the year last year). No Alisa Pili (Pac 12 player of the year). Lastly Taiyana Jackson who we will see early this year on Kansas (6.6 athletic big that averages a double double and was top ten in blocks).I get the hesitancy to draft some of them ( lee - injury history, Holmes - size and athleticism, Pili -size) but these are some all time, college program altering players.
I wonder if it is wisest for those with the opportunity to stay, to use their covid year because of the pending wnba expansion in 2025. Like potentially more roster spots.

Good calls, all.
I'll add one of the Irish to that list: 6'3" Maddy Westbeld, who might do better in the pro's than she did in college. She's got the physical stature to handle the rough play and that jumper is sweet.

However, so much depends on all the other factors I raised in a post about two minutes ago. Players like this might decide to go in 2024 if superstars stay in college in droves. This will be really interesting

 

[YoDore]

I can't really even look at the projected picks for a variety of reasons, some of which have been mentioned, some of which have not.

• One that has is that this is the last year players affected by the Covid policies can play that card, so to speak, and stay an extra year.
• NIL money and other circumstances. Who is making big/steady money? Who wants to get a freebie year of grad school?
• The WNBA collective bargaining agreement is done in 2025. It's one reason why so many players are signing two year deals with their current teams. Could terms of the CBA also affect incoming players in a way to make staying in college a smart move from 2024-25?
• Expansion. Angel Reese and others' topic: give us more chances to play (by upping the amount of slots in the league). This won't happen in 2024, but 2025? Let's hope so.

Fully expect Covid-affected players and their coaches from Clark and Bueckers to Maddy Westbeld to be very attentive to these issues right up to the deadline of declaring their readiness to go pro or stay on campus. To paraphrase those English philophers Joe Stummer and Mick Jones, "should I stay or should I go?"

So, you think there could be a Clash of opinions on the matter?

 

[Bone Dog]

Could be, Bone Dog, but at that stage of their (basketball) lives, considering they almost certainly won't be playing together in the WNBA, you really think Paige will base her decision on the course of her career on what Azzi does?

You 'wowed' me for this? I think you really misunderstood my comment. I merely reflected on how much these two friends have talked about wanting to play together in college. I never said anything about the pros. Your observation that they likely won't be on the same pro team is just another incentive for Paige to stay two more years at UConn because that's how much eligibility Azzi still has.

 

[The deacon]

You 'wowed' me for this? I think you really misunderstood my comment. I merely reflected on how much these two friends have talked about wanting to play together in college. I never said anything about the pros. Your observation that they likely won't be on the same pro team is just another incentive for Paige to stay two more years at UConn because that's how much eligibility Azzi still has.

Still wondering if Paige would base her decision about when she leaves UConn based on Azzi's plans/eligibility, as much as they are close friends... yet who knows what goes on in someone's mind?

 

[Alydar]

I’ll be very surprised if Paige isn’t on the roster in November of ‘24! Regardless of whether she wins her championship this season, why would she leave UConn, a place where she is (by far) the biggest star on campus, universally adored, and where she is already making far more money than she’ll make in the W? (even if that is not strictly true, as her sponsors will likely follow her there, she clearly makes plenty of $ already here at UConn)
No one knows but Paige herself of course, but an added benefit would be further strengthening that knee ( and the rest of her body) before embarking on what will likely be a grueling pro career.
I think it is likely she will want to play in Europe as well, where she will be able to make boatloads of money! If so, she will want to make sure her body is as prepared as possible. Finally, I think she stays in order to cement her standing as one of the all time greats here at UConn!

With her non-basketball income Bueckers may decide to forgo playing in Europe. She lives the game though and may not want to spend 8 months without competing. On the other hand she might want to extend her career and taking 8 months off to train and do other things would be kinder to her body. Or maybe she'll go to China like Maya. Shorter season and an amazingly diverse culture to explore. And the income opportunities for Bueckers in the far east are immense.

 

[Alydar]

You 'wowed' me for this? I think you really misunderstood my comment. I merely reflected on how much these two friends have talked about wanting to play together in college. I never said anything about the pros. Your observation that they likely won't be on the same pro team is just another incentive for Paige to stay two more years at UConn because that's how much eligibility Azzi still has.

That's going to a factor in what she does. She sold Fudd on coming to UConn based on them playing together. They expected to play together for 3 years and so far it's zero. It's unlikely that they will play together in the pros except on the national team. I wouldn't be surprised if she stayed another year just to get in 2 years.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Recall that Phee and Stewie are establishing a 3x3 league, so players may not go to Europe/Asia/Australia as often.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I hear you. I see different things. Stanford has done a very good job of using her in ways that don't lay bare her weaknesses.

Wow, do we ever see it differently. I think Stanford has mostly been hiding how dominant she can be. We've seen flashes. Maybe this year, with so many graduations and transfers, we'll get to see it more often.

 

[Alydar]

N. The biggest thing preventing that is lingering doubt her injuries.

I don't think that's what you meant. She could lead the country in scoring, assists and steals and there would still be doubt and worry. I'll worry about both Fudd and Bueckers but doubt and worry are largely irrational.
Can Raven Johnson's knee stand 25-30 min a game? I don't remember any doubts last preseason about her coming back after her ACL.
Bueckers is a hot item in the media and the media will be telling us about her "fragile knee" all season. That's the nature of the media.

 

[Skeets]

That's going to a factor in what she does. She sold Fudd on coming to UConn based on them playing together. They expected to play together for 3 years and so far it's zero. It's unlikely that they will play together in the pros except on the national team. I wouldn't be surprised if she stayed another year just to get in 2 years.

If playing with Azzi next year, and maybe the year after, is the sole reason for Paige staying then Azzi should do her friend a favor and smack her upside the head.

 

[CL82]

1) Both Clark and Bueckers will be great additions to the teams that draft them, when they declare for the draft.

Agree. I also think that both are going to be really good for the WNBA as a league. Clark and Bueckers (and you could throw Azzi in there as well) are electric players that are fun to watch. I think of it as being similar to when Bird and Magic joined the NBA.

 

[visitingcock]

I don't think that's what you meant. She could lead the country in scoring, assists and steals and there would still be doubt and worry. I'll worry about both Fudd and Bueckers but doubt and worry are largely irrational.
Can Raven Johnson's knee stand 25-30 min a game? I don't remember any doubts last preseason about her coming back after her ACL.
Bueckers is a hot item in the media and the media will be telling us about her "fragile knee" all season. That's the nature of the media.

There were plenty of doubts in the preseason. Raven played some in the early season, but her starts didn’t happen til the stretch run. There are still questions about whether she is 100% what she was before the injury. Plus, Raven has been injured once. It’s twice for Paige.

The pros are unemotional. They look at everything. And it will be a factor they consider, If they consider Paige and Clark equal, 11 teams would choose Clark because of Paiges’ injury history - unless Minnesota trades for the first choice. It would cost them but I could see them trying it to get Paige to sell more tickets.

 

[visitingcock]

Agree. I also think that both are going to be really good for the WNBA as a league. Clark and Bueckers (and you could throw Azzi in there as well) are electric players that are fun to watch. I think of it as being similar to when Bird and Magic joined the NBA.

Azzi has shown nothing near the level of play of B&C. Great shooter but other than shooting she hasn’t shown what the other two have- the ability to carry her team to the championship game.

 

[CL82]

Azzi has shown nothing near the level of play of B&C. Great shooter but other than shooting she hasn’t shown what the other two have- the ability to carry her team to the championship game.

You're not wrong. Let's talk about it again at the end of the season.

 

[JellyBean]

Good calls, all.
I'll add one of the Irish to that list: 6'3" Maddy Westbeld, who might do better in the pro's than she did in college. She's got the physical stature to handle the rough play and that jumper is sweet.

However, so much depends on all the other factors I raised in a post about two minutes ago. Players like this might decide to go in 2024 if superstars stay in college in droves. This will be really interesting

YES!! I am a huge Maddy fan, throw in Kylee Watson as well. Maddy gives me that pro level vibe. That is why I am hoping that the WNBA adds two teams over the next 2-4 years. I hate to see players of Maddy's skill set just sitting on the bench not playing or getting 4-8 minutes a game.

 

[Bone Dog]

I'll add one of the Irish to that list: 6'3" Maddy Westbeld, who might do better in the pro's than she did in college.

I completely agree about Westbeld and Watson. Two very pro-ready players. I’m surprised neither was mentioned in Michael’s mock draft.

Also, just to be fair, I can’t really fathom how Cardoso doesn’t go a lot higher in the mock draft. Certainly ahead of Reese, whom she shutdown last season and will likely do so again. And maybe ahead of Brink. A mobile 6’7” player with soft hands who runs the floor really well, has a good touch around the rim and is a proficient rim protector. Maybe Caitlin and Paige go ahead of her if they opt for the draft this year. But I have a feeling Cardoso will have a tremendous pro career.

 

[Dillon77]

With all due respect to Michael Voepel, he can be blinded by the lights.
Tell me, if you read this about a projected #5 pick, would you pull the trigger?

"Considering their depth in the post, the (Dallas) Wings might opt for another guard with clutch shooting ability. Fill-in-the-blank (19.7 points per game last season) hasn't been considered a top-tier defender or distributor, but she will work on both aspects of her game this season after transferring to LSU from Louisville. It will be intriguing to see how she plays on a new team with so much talent. If she becomes a stronger all-around player, she will be more appealing as a pro."

Yes, I'm writing about Haily Van Lith, who Vopel has pegged at #5. Now, I'm in the midst of watching the Dallas Wings vs. the Aces and I agree with the 'depth in the post" part and maybe even the need for another outside shooter. However....

- I don't think spending a #5 pick on a 5'7" shooting guard who can run hot/very cold who is a "meh" defender at best or playmaker is the best use of the pick.. She'll have to show a lot this season to justify that high a pick, in my opinion. Also, why spend a #5 on a back-up shooting guard who will mostly watch Arike play?

- Dallas, knock on wood on with the injury gods, but Diamond DeShields and Lou Lopez-Senechal will be back from injury next year so that should also cover the wing spot, which Dallas could use.

- So, if you're looking for a shooting guard who plays defense and a handle, I'd rather give a player like Jacy Sheldon a chance. A Grace Berger-type of technically sound player who you can count on.

- BTW, regarding choosing a point guard for the Wings: Georgia Amorre is smart and shoots very well, too, but doesn't Crystal Dangerfeld do that, too? And Valerie Burton is there, but she's not really a scorer; having had her time dry up once Odyssey Sims was signed. Ah, what the heck, in GM Greg Bibb's world, the more is merrier.

 

[Cuango]

If you want a potential superstar, you take Clark. If you want a potential superstar with injury history, you take Paige.

So, if Clark gets injured twice this year will she also become a “potential superstar with injury history?” If I recall correctly, the “goat“ pg (Sue) could also have been labeled as having an injury history yet had an extremely long and successful career in the pros. The truth is, there’s no reliable way of predicting this kind of thing. Paige could play 12 more years and never suffer another injury or Clark could suffer a career ending injury tomorrow (God forbid)!
Sure, there are some instances where it is clear that a long career is doubtful, Morgan Tuck for example, but that’s because she had a clearly identifiable problem, (cartilage issues in her knee) that could be clearly IDed as likely to recur. Bill Walton, whose surgeon once compared the bones in his feet to ”peanut butter” was another example of a generational talent whose body was obviously not going to hold up for a long career. Our own Brittany Hunter was another supreme talent whose body betrayed her, though, to be fair, I believe her issue may have been a botched surgical procedure. Paige, as far as I can tell, has no such problem.
If I were drafting,I would definitely choose Paige over Clark as long as my medical staff found no chronic issues. Clark is great, she excites the fans with 35 ft threes but I believe Paige is simply a better player overall.
Admittedly, you really couldn’t go wrong with either of them, but imo, the material reason why anyone would choose Clark over Paige, is the injury thing. I believe if Paige had never suffered an injury, there would be no debate. So, really it comes down to whether you believe that Paige‘s two injuries were a result of some congenital weakness in her body or were rather freak injuries that simply happened.

 

[Cuango]

I don't see Brink up there, though she'll have a chance to broaden her game and show stamina and strength this season.

I am surprised to see Hailey Van Lith so high on this list! With all due respect, she is small, a middling shooter, and has no history as an effective point guard. She certainly has not shown herself (so far) to be to be anything but what she is, a scrappy, average shooting guard who has to take a lot of shots (18) in order to maintain her 19.7 point average.
She will certainly have to play pg in the pros yet has shown little to no inclination or talent for that position. It has been speculated that she left Louisville, whose head coach she had praised profusely the previous year, and went to LSU, basically for two reasons; one: to win a championship, two: to play point guard as preparation for the W. l am doubtful as to whether she can make that transition in the first place and also whether Kim will stick with her in that position if she struggles.
I wish her all the best though, as I truly do admire the feistiness, obvious hard work, will to win, and dedication that has led her to a place where she could be #5 on a mock draft for the premiere professional women’s league in the world. I will be shocked though, if she ends up being drafted at that level.
I suppose there is a scenario where it could happen though. If, as some are predicting, Paige, Caitlin, and Angel all stay for their covid year (and she (Hailey Van Lith) actually shows some point guard ability this season, then, in the absence of several of the biggest stars, she could possibly rise to #5 by default.
This leads me to another question. Would Geno want Cameron Brink if she entered the portal for her covid year? I’m thinking yes!

 

[nwhoopfan]

With all the speculation about others from that class taking a covid year, it seems like nobody has mentioned it as a possibility for Van Lith.

 

[The deacon]

If I were drafting,I would definitely choose Paige over Clark as long as my medical staff found no chronic issues. Clark is great, she excites the fans with 35 ft threes but I believe Paige is simply a better player overall.
Admittedly, you really couldn’t go wrong with either of them, but imo, the material reason why anyone would choose Clark over Paige, is the injury thing. I believe if Paige had never suffered an injury, there would be no debate.

Quite a big 'if' there, Cuango. However, even overlooking that for a second, did you not watch Caitlin play last season?

Each person is free to make her or his judgment, but as great as Paige was/could be again, Caitlin was very likely as good last season as any women's college basketball player ever has been, and the 35-foot 3s were just a small part of her performances.

 

[jdote33]

With all the speculation about others from that class taking a covid year, it seems like nobody has mentioned it as a possibility for Van Lith.

Great point, and also great for LSU. Morrow, Reese and Van Lith can all stay until 25.

 

[The deacon]

Great point, and also great for LSU. Morrow, Reese and Van Lith can all stay until 25.

Maybe by then WCBB will be played with more than one basketball at a time?

 

[Skeets]

Concerning Paige and Clark, one of them will be picked as #1 and the other will be a consolation prize. It will be a very, very good consolation prize, maybe the best of all time? (Assuming both stay healthy and have the season we expect.)

 

[Skeets]

Ah, I'd like to add that the rookie salary (see the other thread) for both Paige and Clark will be an insult. I'm sure Paige pays more in taxes than what the rookie salary is.

 

[jdote33]

Concerning Paige and Clark, one of them will be picked as #1 and the other will be a consolation prize. It will be a very, very good consolation prize, maybe the best of all time? (Assuming both stay healthy and have the season we expect.)

It's interesting, whenever there is a question of who should be picked first vs second, the team 90 percent of the time who picks first gets it right. I'm not sure if it's supreme scouting or media making it to be more of a debate than it really is but I do think more often than not the player chosen number one has a more decorated career than the player chosen 2. Although, I'm thinking a lot of the NBA in the last 20 years (Derrick Rose v Michael Beasley, John Wall v Evan Turner, Lebron v Melo, Dwight v Okafor). The biggest exception is KD and Oden. On the women's side the one that always comes to mind is DT vs Alana Beard. I know Candace Parker v Sylvia Fowles was a little bit of a thing and then Maya Moore vs Liz Cambage. Still the number one pick seems to have more of an impact.

 

[Dillon77]

Ah, I'd like to add that the rookie salary (see the other thread) for both Paige and Clark will be an insult. I'm sure Paige pays more in taxes than what the rookie salary is.

That's why I noted the Collective Bargaining Agreement is up in 2025. If that affects incoming rookies that season, there could be a serious bump there, given how much NIL has affected who earns what.

Agree that Clark, Bueckers, Reese are not incentivized by the current rookie payout...

 

[Zarathustra]

Concerning Paige and Clark, one of them will be picked as #1 and the other will be a consolation prize. It will be a very, very good consolation prize, maybe the best of all time? (Assuming both stay healthy and have the season we expect.)

Dorka Juhasz made the point in her "end of season" interview with Minnesota that
( to paraphase her): " the draft number that you are chosen at doesn't matter...
there are many factors coming into play..... ( but, being chosen # 16 ) did motive
me!!!"

 

[Reypl21]

So, if Clark gets injured twice this year will she also become a “potential superstar with injury history?”

I mean if Clark had some injury putting her out for the season and/or out for her rookie season then yes.