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Way too early 2019 mock draft

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If Shepard shows her range again next year and excels in the high post, she should be a highly coveted pick. Strong, physical 6-4 players who aren’t afraid to bang, and also possess good perimeter skills don’t grow on trees.

She seems a little shorter than 6’4, but I’m nervous that the Lynx will see her as a younger healthier version of McCarville (a player the Lynx had success with) and be tempted to draft her. Shepard will never be a favorite of mine after what happened to Yori.

I also don’t think Collier is a better pro prospect than Williams. Williams is a better athlete and all around player. Despite good length, Collier is a little small to play the 4 in the pros and is an inconsistent perimeter shooter. Plus she isn’t close to being the athlete Williams is.

I’m a little skeptical on Collier as a PF in the WNBA myself. If she’s a true 6’1, she most likely would have to convert to SF.

Anyone who’d take Durr at 1 should be fired IMO.

Agree. The only times in the last ten years a guard was taken #1 in the draft were in weak draft classes. 2019 is not weak.

The guy who wrote the mock draft article in the first post is fairly new to following the WNBA.

Based on potential I’m going with McCowan #1 at this point in time.
 
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bballnut90

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You completely lost me when you said better upside. Hahaha people think Napheesa struggled this year & her numbers are much better than Shepard’s. Can you imagine if she has a great year. Her talent laps Shepard’s on a bad day.

You can't compare numbers from a UCONN player to a player at another school when evaluating WNBA prospects. UCONN's statistics are inflated relative to other programs because they always take high percentage shots and crush teams to a different degree than other programs do. Most UCONN players shoot significantly higher percentages at UCONN than they do in the pros, and they also typically have much better numbers all around than what they produce in the pros.

That said, their numbers are pretty similar:
Shepard: 15.6 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.4 assists, 0.7 blocks, 0.8 steals, 2.2 turnovers, 56.5% FG, 29.4 mpg
Collier: 16.1 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 3.3 assists, 1.7 blocks, 1.6 steals, 1.5 turnovers, 58.3% FG, 28.8 mpg

Collier's are slightly better in most areas, but she also played in UCONN's extremely efficient offense, and faced an easier schedule.

Aside from the numbers piece, a lot of my hype for Shepard comes from her strong showings at the end of the season. In her last 7 games, she played great against Oregon, Louisville, Mississippi State, and UCONN (teams who finished #2-5 in the last poll). She played well going up against bigger, more athletic players while she wasn't playing her natural position. Put her at the 4, where her skills are best suited, and she becomes a matchup nightmare.
 
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I think Mabrey is a late 1st or 2nd rounder.

If you remove the “1st or”, I’m with you. Hard to see her as a first rounder as it stands now.

Turner should be fine as a 5 IMO. No she isn’t Fowles or Griner esque, but she is very athletic and defensively can hold her own. She does need to put on about 10lbs of muscle though and work on her hands (I’m not even sure how someone does can work on this besides more reps, but so many passes slip through her fingers, and she fumbles rebounds). She does run the floor extremely well. We still haven’t seen her fully healthy yet, so I’m hoping this is the year we do. A lot of people (including myself) thought she was a better long term prospect than Wilson after her freshman year. Wilson made massive strides each year after, while Turner has dealt with injury issues all 3 seasons (and she was injured part of her freshman year too).

That’s like saying Harrison as a 5 should be okay. I’m not feeling either as a center at the next level. Laimbeer bringing in Bone, Swords, and Park illustrates the point.
 

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That’s like saying Harrison as a 5 should be okay. I’m not feeling either as a center at the next level. Laimbeer bringing in Bone, Swords, and Park illustrates the point.

Yep, Turner's size says "4" but her skill set says "5". She's not going to get taller, so it's either learn the skills of a 4 or try to make it as undersized 5. Her career prospects are much better if she can manage the former.
 

wallman

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She puts a lot of effort in to offense; I'll give her that. Her defense is more the matador style. She can talk to KLM about how many minutes that earns you in the WNBA.

Totally agree Cat and I almost spit my coffee out when I saw the word defense associated with her. She is also no where close to as good a shooter as KML(only 39% from 3last year) so whats the point.

My doubts about Shepard are also that I don't think she is 6'4" and with the lack of speed it will be difficult going against the bigs. Durr is another one who plays little defense and has trouble getting involved with anything other than trying to score.
 
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20DA2C6B-212B-433F-BD53-FE7B991A3BA3.jpeg

See why there’s no room for Mabrey in the first round? Things begin to fall off a cliff for me after Laksa at #14, but Mabrey could easily drop off the 2nd round.
 
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View attachment 30944
See why there’s no room for Mabrey in the first round? Things begin to fall off a cliff for me after Laksa at #14, but Mabrey could easily drop off the 2nd round.

I like it, but I switch Brown for McCowan. I think in the WNBA they want someone that can step outside and hit a 12-15-17 footer. McCowan is good however, she needs to develop many more aspects. Kalani needs better conditioning, but see her as the better of the two. However, I could be slightly bias, but McCowan is a Texas girl too.
 

bballnut90

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I like it, but I switch Brown for McCowan. I think in the WNBA they want someone that can step outside and hit a 12-15-17 footer. McCowan is good however, she needs to develop many more aspects. Kalani needs better conditioning, but see her as the better of the two. However, I could be slightly bias, but McCowan is a Texas girl too.

Agree. A lot depends on this upcoming season, but Brown is a much better offensive player than McCowan right now. Keep in mind Teaira has made incredible strides the last 12 months, i don’t think anyone thought she’d have the kind of season she did this year. I also want to see her become more of a shotblocker. Another offseason of hard work and improvement and she could become the clear cut #1 prospect.
 
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A lot of this will depend on how these players do this season. It’s all speculation until then. I tend to lean towards Las Vegas taking Lou #1 give the fact they have Moriah & A’Ja. They need a shooter & long wing. Why take another 5 in back to back seasons? Didn’t make sense. I think Pheesa would be the next best “fit” for them. Not saying she’s a better pro prospect than Brown or McCowan but she would be better to put next to A’Ja than the other 2.
 

meyers7

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Just so we are clear, she should have five MVPs, per your statement.
  • After 5 years in the WNBA, did Candace Parker have five MVPs? Does Candace Parker have five MVPs now?
  • After 5 years in the WNBA, did Maya Moore have five MVPs? Does Maya Moore have five MVPs now?
  • After 5 years in the WNBA, did Sylvia Fowles have five MVPs? Does Sylvia Fowles have five MVPs now?

Just so we are clear, she would have 4 WNBA Championships, per your statement,
  • After 5 years in the WNBA, did Maya Moore have 4 WNBA Championships?
  • After 5 years in the WNBA, did Candace Parker have 4 WNBA Championships?
  • After 5 years in the WNBA, did Sylvia Fowles have 4 WNBA Championships?

Interesting that she is not given a pass for 2017, with no Taylor (retired), Bonner (pregnancy), or Dupree (traded), whereas other teams had their full rosters of star players.
I think what Shades is trying to get across is with Griner's "tools", she should be better than all those players. You shouldn't be comparing Griner to what Parker/Moore/Fowles has done. You "should" be comparing them to her.

So you kind of support Shades argument, she is not living up to her potential.
 
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Anyone else find it odd that not only Lou is a little too low at 3 but Pheesa at 6!? Both are better pro prospects than Gabby & 2/3 current college players (Durr) in the national USA pool. Their versatility will get them both off the board in the top 4 IMHO. Shepard is solid but highly doubt there’s a coach in America crazy enough to take her over Pheesa. Same with Durr over Lou.
Can you imagine how lucky a general manager would feel getting Napheesa at 6? Both her and Katie Lou are virtually unstoppable. The combination of size and skill.
 

meyers7

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Eye test says Shepard’s a better creator and facilitator than Collier. Different players but Shepard as a passing 4 has more potential to me in the pros than Collier playing the 3 or 4. If Shepard shows her range again next year and excels in the high post, she should be a highly coveted pick. Strong, physical 6-4 players who aren’t afraid to bang, and also possess good perimeter skills don’t grow on trees.
Eye test huh? I guess it would have to be eye test, because stats don't really make the case.

As a facilitator Collier had 122 assists to Shepard's 93. Pretty good by both, but Collier was better. And Shepard's range?? 0-2 from 3 pt? While Collier was a 34% shooter. And 43% last year.

Also Collier is a bit better on 2pt FG%, not much and Shepard is a bit better in rebounding (again not much). Blocks? Collier again 63 to 28. Steals? Collier again 60 to 31. They were pretty close in scoring average. Turnovers? Shepard wins this one 84 to 56 (oh wait. ;))

Shepard is good, but I'd take Collier before her.
 
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Eye test huh? I guess it would have to be eye test, because stats don't really make the case.

As a facilitator Collier had 122 assists to Shepard's 93. Pretty good by both, but Collier was better. And Shepard's range?? 0-2 from 3 pt? While Collier was a 34% shooter. And 43% last year.

Also Collier is a bit better on 2pt FG%, not much and Shepard is a bit better in rebounding (again not much). Blocks? Collier again 63 to 28. Steals? Collier again 60 to 31. They were pretty close in scoring average. Turnovers? Shepard wins this one 84 to 56 (oh wait. ;))

Shepard is good, but I'd take Collier before her.
Thank you!! Eventually the eye test is trumped by production!
 

bballnut90

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Eye test huh? I guess it would have to be eye test, because stats don't really make the case.

As a facilitator Collier had 122 assists to Shepard's 93. Pretty good by both, but Collier was better. And Shepard's range?? 0-2 from 3 pt? While Collier was a 34% shooter. And 43% last year.

Also Collier is a bit better on 2pt FG%, not much and Shepard is a bit better in rebounding (again not much). Blocks? Collier again 63 to 28. Steals? Collier again 60 to 31. They were pretty close in scoring average. Turnovers? Shepard wins this one 84 to 56 (oh wait. ;))

Shepard is good, but I'd take Collier before her.

As I noted before—I don’t think you can compare the two based on stats and I agreed the stats favored Collier. Shepard played against a more difficult schedule and was playing out of her natural position this year. She has 3pt ability (she took many at Nebraska) but didn’t utilize that part of her game this past year playing in the low post. Watch both of them play and evaluate them on that.

If you go by stats alone, Natalie Butler would’ve been the sure fire #1 pick in the draft.
 

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Shepard and Collier is such an odd comparison to me because they are totally different players. Especially last year, they played totally different roles.

Shepard played as a true low post "5". How many major-conference 5s had more assists than Shepard? Very few, if any, I'd guess. Also, her assist total may undersell her passing because one of her best skills is outlet passing, which often won't get her an assist on the score sheet but can be crucial in creating transition opportunities.
 
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Can you Imagine though how good Vegas could be in the future if they did draft Brown or McCowan? They would have a dominant center, a great Forward in Wilson, having Moriah and Plum at the guard position. In the WNBA post play is huge, from what I saw last season.

Top 4 teams all have 1-3 dominant 4/5 players.

Minn - Fowles, Brunson
LA - Parker, Ogwumike, and Lavender
Conn - Jones the stand out from last year and Ogwumike is back this year.
Phoenix - Brittany and company

In my mind if you have one of the 6'7 post on the floor with Aja, it will be a lot to guard for many teams. I am no expert on all the roster's so I know I am missing a few post, but noting the most notables for them. If it were Kalani the Hi low game could be a game changer for them due to her passing abilities and able to hit the jumper. If you pull Kalani out that would pull someone like Griner out and give Aja room to work!
 
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A lot of this will depend on how these players do this season. It’s all speculation until then. I tend to lean towards Las Vegas taking Lou #1 give the fact they have Moriah & A’Ja. They need a shooter & long wing. Why take another 5 in back to back seasons? Didn’t make sense. I think Pheesa would be the next best “fit” for them. Not saying she’s a better pro prospect than Brown or McCowan but she would be better to put next to A’Ja than the other 2.

Yep, it’s all educated speculation this early. We’re also speculating the order of the teams. For the mock draft I supplied, I was at the mercy of their order of picks. We don’t know for sure that Las Vegas will have the #1 pick.

The best rule of drafting is choosing talent over fit. So if you have a clear #1 (like Wilson was this year), you should take her despite team needs. It just so happened Las Vegas needs just about everything but they’re better set at guard. To me, McCowan is my clear #1 at this point. She’s tall, she’s strong and fit, and her potential is through the roof. I liked her for the same reasons in last year’s draft discussions and she only has further validated my liking her. So even if Vegas gets the #1 pick, I’d have them taking McCowan even though center won’t be their biggest need (unless Bone is awful this year). It doesn’t hurt that Laimbeer likes his players big and strong.
 

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Lots of great analysis in this thread about the respective abilities of the players, the importance of size, team needs, etc.

I would agree with many that McCowan is the likely number one at this point.

But I could easily see Lou at two. And, if I`m in the front office of the Sparks or the Sun and its my job to sell tickets, I am begging the powers that be to move up to get Lou at two.
 

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When I think of Napheesa as a professional I think of Delisha Milton-Jones (without the D-nasty). DMJ is also 6-1 but was able to play bigger because of her long arms. I think the same is true for Napheesa. DMJ benefitted greatly from playing alongside All-Star and Olympian Lisa Leslie so big parts of Napheesa's success will be which team takes her and her teammates. DMJ eventually developed a decent 3-point shot and I think Napheesa is ahead of her in that regard.
 

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You must not have seen Napheesa her sophomore year. She played out of position a lot this season. Many times standing out on the perimeter while Azura was in. Wasn't a coincidence she did much of her damage in the 1st and 3rd quarters. Her stats were better and she had to share a lot more than Shepard.

She had better get used to standing out on the perimeter because that's where a 6'1 player is going to be stationed in the WNBA.

I don't see how she "had to share a lot more" than Shepard. Their usage percentages are actually pretty close (24.1 for Shepard to 23.5 for Collier) and Collier shot a little more frequently than Shepard.
 
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bballnut90

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You must not have seen Napheesa her sophomore year. She played out of position a lot this season. Many times standing out on the perimeter while Azura was in. Wasn't a coincidence she did much of her damage in the 1st and 3rd quarters. Her stats were better and she had to share a lot more than Shepard. Look at her numbers against ND in 2 games this year.

Pheesa... 39pts, 14rebs, 5ast, 2to, 16-30FG, 2-3 3pt, 5-5FT, 3blks, 2stls
Shepard...25pts, 19rebs, 7ast, 5to, 12-27FG, 0-0 3pt, 1-3FT, 1blk, 1stl

This comparison isn't close. Shepard may be bigger but Napheesa's defensive presence seems to stand out a lot more than Shepard's. Btw. UConn had the #2 strength of schedule in the country.


Where do you project Collier as a pro—a 3 or a 4? I watched plenty of her as a sophomore and was quite impressed. I thought the consistency wasn’t there this year and the addition of Stevens impacted her play. Curious to see if she returns to form this upcoming season. I see her more as an undersized 4. DMJ is a good comparison, although Collier is probably better offensively than Delisha and not the same caliber player defensively.

I’m not going to crunch and analyze more stats, but I’ll just reiterate that I think Shepard has a more unique skill set and if she continues to progress like she did this past season, she could be a top 4-5 draft pick.
 

wallman

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I am still on the fence about both McCowan more athletic than Brown and seems to have the potential to cover further away from the basket and Brown who is way to slow to cover any big in the W but can finish better at the rim. Both or one could be lottery but I will wait to watch this coming season. The only for sure lottery at this moment for me is KLS, the other 3 could be from a short number of players which will be decided upon over the year and what a team needs come draft time.
 

CamrnCrz1974

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But I could easily see Lou at two. And, if I`m in the front office of the Sparks or the Sun and its my job to sell tickets, I am begging the powers that be to move up to get Lou at two.

With all due respect to her tremendous collegiate accomplishments, I think it is a fair question to ask if Katie Lou Samuelson is the second best player prospect for the 2019 WNBA Draft.

At #2, you take the best player available, irrespective of position (see Bouie, Sam and Jordan, Michael). You want someone who has All Star/all-league potential.

As far as correlating fan ticket sales, there is not a lot of empirical evidence that shows that having a player from a certain area moves the needle significantly. Now, when Phoenix drafted Diana Taurasi (remember, a city to which she had zero ties), ticket sales went up because she was/is a star and regarded as a "once in a generation" type of player. But outside of those examples, the only situation that I can recall moving the needle was Shoni Schimmel, whose presence brought Native American fans to her games, whether at home or on the road.

UConn had Kelly Faris on its roster for a number of years. That did not move the needle in terms of attendance. That brings up another question -- what if Samuelson (like Faris) does not (did not) play? Would people still flock to games if the player is not going to start or see significant action off the bench.

Katie Lou is an incredible shooter and has great height. But for the professional game, she has average lateral quickness/speed. Also, as a small forward/bigger guard/wing, she could be defending players like Elena Delle Donne (who was at the three on offense and defense last year in Washington), Maya Moore, Diana Taurasi (who played anywhere from 1-3 last year in Phoenix), Monique Currie (an example of a player who is ridiculously physically strong), Alyssa Thomas (who was the default small forward for years until Chiney Ogwumike was injured and she moved to a better spot as a playmaking four; with Chiney back, will A.Thomas move back to the three?), etc. Athletically, she does not have the natural gifts as someone such as Gabby Williams (to use an example from UConn), where such gifts lead to greater pro potential.

On offense, KLS is not as adept off the dribble and creating in the one-on-one setting (without a pick) as Asia Durr or Arike Ogunbowale (using players in 2019), for example. She needs more screens to create separation, but once she does, her release is incredibly quick.

Now, if a team is going to put KLS at the two, she will have the same issue defensively in terms of quickness (though some recovery will take place because of the height advantage). But that means having a versatile wing player who can rotate between the 2 and the 3 defensively, which would allow KLS to move between the two positions on offense and defense, depending upon matchups.

Samuelson is a very, very good player (and an elite player at the college level), but for a #2 pick, much more will be expected. I see her being drafted in the #4-#8 range (we see how players can fall, as Azura Stevens fell to #6, even though I had her at #2, in terms of prospect potential). I just do not believe her ceiling is as high as other players in the 2019 WNBA Draft, in terms of professional potential and growth. As an example, it is much easier to fix a shot (e.g., Jasmine Thomas did it last year; curious to see how Gabby Williams performs in terms of extending her range and being a consistent threat from outside) than it is to all of a sudden become quicker and more athletic.

But if I am drafting between #4 and #8 and I have a chance to draft KLS, I am seriously considering doing so.
 

wallman

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Well you said Stevens would be NPOY this year Cam :rolleyes: It does not make sense that you would promote Stevens at 2 in the draft when she clearly did not show any defensive prowess for man to man and yet you try to put down KLS. From watching and then hearing KLS played with the injuries she did this year and still played at both ends, it comes off as a little strange.

You then bring up Durr and Ogunbowale, both of which show no defensive prowess and show a much lower IQ and aversion to getting the ball to their teammates.

And are you saying it is much more difficult for white girls to become more athletic?
 
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CamrnCrz1974

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I think what Shades is trying to get across is with Griner's "tools", she should be better than all those players. You shouldn't be comparing Griner to what Parker/Moore/Fowles has done. You "should" be comparing them to her.

So you kind of support Shades argument, she is not living up to her potential.

I disagree with the point about tools. Griner is very athletic for 6-9, but she is not as athletic as Tamika Catchings or Maya Moore (or even Gabby Williams). Yes, she has physical tools in terms of her height and wingspan, but she does not have a strong base in terms of her legs/leg strength (in contrast to someone like A'ja Wilson, whose base is incredibly strong).

Also, in terms of tools, Parker's feel for the game and court vision are things that cannot be taught. She is literally a 6-4/6-5 playmaker. That is why a player like Ben Simmons (to use the NBA example) is so gifted, because of what he can do at his height.

Griner does not have the natural tools/gifts of Parker or Moore.

At NO POINT did I support Shades' argument. Shades explicitly stated that Griner should have 5 MVP awards and 4 WNBA titles. No one had that in five years in the league. No one has five MVPs now, for a career. Shades also brought up teammates, but ignored (initially) the fact that three of the four teammates he mentioned sat out last year.

What Griner has done from a collegiate freshman to now is remarkable. Obviously, @easttexastrash saw Griner more times than I did in college, but throughout her career, she greatly expanded her shooting range (which she has continued in the W). She can defend much better without fouling (and can play with foul trouble while being effective). In just five WNBA seasons, she has accomplished the following:

  • 4× WNBA All-Star (2013–2015, 2017)
  • WNBA scoring champion (2017)
  • 5× WNBA blocks leader (2013–2017)
  • WNBA Peak Performer (2017)
  • All-WNBA First Team (2014)
  • 2× All-WNBA Second Team (2015, 2017)
  • 2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2014, 2015)
  • 2× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2014, 2015)
  • 2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2016, 2017)
In just five years, Griner ranks 8th all-time in the history of the league in total blocks and #1 in blocks per game. And in her fifth year, despite being injured for a good portion of he season, she still lead the league in scoring (offense) and blocks (defense).

Yet, for Shades, the aforementioned accomplishments are not nearly enough, notwithstanding that, collective, the first five years of Griner's career have more overall individual accolades than Diana Taurasi and Candace Parker and are close to those of Maya Moore. There is no empirical evidence or data that Griner possesses such a vastly greater amount of physical tools than Taurasi, Parker, Moore, etc. that should warrant such discrepancies in treatment or holding Griner to such an impossibly high standard (while also recognizing that basketball is a team game and while one player can make a difference, one player alone cannot win you a WNBA title). But if Shades wants do that, we can certainly look at LeBron James and his first five years...
 

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