Watching Tennessee and Oregon State is like watching a PAC12 game...

[jonson]

You singled out one (1) fact, while leaving out the rest of the facts. What was the rest of Pivec's line against Tennessee? Did you even watch the game? Did you notice who scored the 1st 7 points for OSU. "Stating" a single fact while leaving out the rest is dishonest at best.

You are right, but unfortunately you are responding to a poster who seems unable to say anything positive about either of the Oregon schools. Remember the "Oregon has underachieved, prove me wrong" post from another thread? He was--and easily--but that apparently hasn't prevented additional comments like that one. The irony, of course, is that the appropriate target for a comment about underachieving is really UCLA (wallman's team). Not only was that senior-led team full of highly ranked recruits picked to win the Pac 12 this year, but it also somehow managed to lose 4 games this season to teams from Oregon

 

[wallman]

I believe I already beat you to that one so good luck with trying to bait me LOL.

Oh and while I am on it, love Hebard, love Carzola, love Gulich, but that s not who you want to hear about.

 

[dogged1]

Isn't that exactly what happened to K.O.?

No, KO didn't recruit particularly well and incomprehensibly drew another inquiry into the program by the NCAA over another potential set of violation. I actually think Holly and KO's skills were the opposite-KO could actually coach a bit as evidenced by winning a NC but was a bit lazy on the recruiting front, while Holly was pretty good on the recruiting as talent is consistently showing up 6 years later but her x's and o's and her developing/evolving skills on the players is non-existent. She still managed some pretty good numbers 154-53 record.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your assessment of their coaching skills.

Thanks so much for this Bigpetunia. I agree with a lot of it and take your point. But also: Holly has been coaching for 6 years now and, despite getting quality players, the program has never managed to achieve excellence. She was never a head coach elsewhere before then and so, between her lack of previous experience and her current poor track record, players who last year (after her 5th season as HC) committed for this season were really ignoring the reality of the situation. Geno's successor will, indeed, have a very hard act to follow. If she/he doesn't achieve reasonable success within 3 or 4 seasons tops, not only should we expect recruiting to drop off, but also the AD to think hard about the position.

I was responding to the last sentence. And while KO does have an NC, the last 3 years have not been good. Sorry, should have been clearer.

 

[LoTrader]

I believe I already beat you to that one so good luck with trying to bait me LOL.

Oh and while I am on it, love Hebard, love Carzola, love Gulich, but that s not who you want to hear about.

I'll be rooting hard for the Bruins, as well as the rest of the PAC12 today. GO BRUINS!

 

[DefenseBB]

Another point to ponder for you on Tennessee;
During the season Tenn averaged 8,778 fans per game but yesterday during a Sunday afternoon NCAA game, 4,338 showed up.
2017 9,184
2016 10,412
2015 10,375
2014 11,038
2013 11,390
2012 14,414

So, is anyone seeing a trend under Holly?

 

[LoTrader]

Another point to ponder for you on Tennessee;
During the season Tenn averaged 8,778 fans per game but yesterday during a Sunday afternoon NCAA game, 4, 338 showed up.
2017 9,184
2016 10,412
2015
2014
2013
2012

It certainly didn't seem like the arena was full. However, those 4000+ Tennessee fans sure were loud when they didn't agree with the referee's whistle!

 

[DefenseBB]

It certainly didn't seem like the arena was full. However, those 4000+ Tennessee fans sure were loud when they didn't agree with the referee's whistle!

while composing, when I went to edit a number is posted-sorry! BTW, very happy for Scott R-seems like a great guy and is developing a great, nationally relevant program. He has the #16 ranked class with #7 Aquino and with Destiny Slocum #7 in 2016 becoming available next year, 7's are wild!!!

 

[shizam]

For Tenn, both Mercedes Russell #1 in the 2013 class and Jaime Nared was #6 in 2014. I think it was said on the broadcast that Mercedes was the first #1 ranked recruit to never make All American in College...ouch. In fact, no basketball player recruited by Holly as the HC at Tennessee has made All-American. She had two players make it her first 2 years but they were recruited while Pat was there and played 2 and 3 years under her.

I hear you but my contention is it is a starting point and a pretty good starting point. All athletes develop and peak at different times in their lives due to physiology, emotional interest/drive and coaching. These players that are ranked in the top 24 are usually pretty vetted over the rankings vs those from 80 and above. And your point is valid in the respect talent can still drastically underperform, like at Baylor or Tennessee. However winning a National Championship is easier with top players on it than not. I think Notre Dame from 2001 was that last team without a McDonald's All-American. Ruth Riley was ranked something like 61. My point is for this year, there are teams with McD's AAs that are playing at a very high level especially in the Lexington Region-Louisville has 4/5, Baylor has 6 and Stanford has 6 so I just think it will be harder for Scott to beat both talent and other credible coaches.

Thanks for the dialogue. I have attached the 2014 HoopGurlz to show how effective this ranking was as it shows a "Who's who" of top players. Sure, there are a few "Who?" in there but for the most part the rankings got it right.
www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/rankings/_/class/2014

L'ville players outperformed their ranking in 2014 class
#34 Hines-Allen
#42 Mariya Moore
#77 Arica Carter (she is beginning too)
Unfortunately a dandy, #37 Sydney Brackemyre never got going due to a knee injury.
2015 class #60 Sam Fuehring is coming into her own.

Makes me think of Kia Nurse. Ekmark was ranked ahead of her.
Look at the difference in impact level of a Monique Billings #38 and Kaylee Johnson #30. HUGE. Same holds true for #34 Hines-Allen compared to #20 Rice of KY.
#91 Marte Grays DePaul... great production
#57 Wagner of Minn and Katelyn Flaherty, Paris Kea and Alexis Jennings were in the 60's. Nice production.

 

[nwhoopfan]

It certainly didn't seem like the arena was full. However, those 4000+ Tennessee fans sure were loud when they didn't agree with the referee's whistle!

Which was pretty much every time a call went against Tennessee. They are one of those kind of fan bases apparently.

 

[Bayareahusky]

And now the national press is taking notice of the Holly situation-Mechelle Voepel adding the gasoline to the fire.

Enjoy as I have!
Is Tennessee coach Holly Warlick on the hot seat?

Why has it taken so long for Voepel and the like to pose this question...... I could see at the start .... with her stand in season for pat in 11-12.... that she was not commanding the production from the team that Pat had done.... and there were missing links in the basics of coaching.... but I think when you are getting 25 wins a season... it is good enough i think from the AD position

 

[stwainfan]

Our program is rebuilding and I for one am excited for the direction this program is headed," she said. "I feel a lot better about it than I did the previous 3 seasons. We have great players returning for next season and we are adding another outstanding freshman class. We will still be young next year as well because we only have 1 junior who contributed this season. In my opinion that’s what’s hurting us...the players we couldn’t sign who should be rising juniors and seniors for next season."
Per Abby Conklin

 

[shizam]

Our program is rebuilding and I for one am excited for the direction this program is headed," she said. "I feel a lot better about it than I did the previous 3 seasons. We have great players returning for next season and we are adding another outstanding freshman class. We will still be young next year as well because we only have 1 junior who contributed this season. In my opinion that’s what’s hurting us...the players we couldn’t sign who should be rising juniors and seniors for next season."
Per Abby Conklin

She had three Seniors this year. One was a 5th year Senior

 

[Bigpetunia]

Thanks so much for this Bigpetunia. I agree with a lot of it and take your point. But also: Holly has been coaching for 6 years now and, despite getting quality players, the program has never managed to achieve excellence. She was never a head coach elsewhere before then and so, between her lack of previous experience and her current poor track record, players who last year (after her 5th season as HC) committed for this season were really ignoring the reality of the situation. Geno's successor will, indeed, have a very hard act to follow. If she/he doesn't achieve reasonable success within 3 or 4 seasons tops, not only should we expect recruiting to drop off, but also the AD to think hard about the position.

Well, my friend, I do not know if I concur, but I do know that I hope you’re right. I grew up and spent most of my life in the Deep South, or, for purposes of this discussion, in the SEC. Down there, only one serious religion exists...it is called college football. The numbers involved in that “religion” are staggering. Folks in Knoxville may be lobbying Phillip Fulmer to take a serious interest in LV basketball, but I’m pretty certain that the only time he thinks seriously about the subject is when he’s pestered to do so. At UConn, things are somewhat different, of course, because since Geno’s arrival we all have, quite unpredictably, been treated to a magic carpet ride of unprecedented dimensions, and because football is not a State Religion here, at least for now, like it is elsewhere.
But let’s project forward to a hard-to-envision point in the distant future, say, ten years from now. Where will WBB be on the AD’s radar then, when UConn is likely to be just another good program, albeit one with a storied history? Will it still be taken as seriously as it is today? I suspect that, like UT, it will still attract its share of top talent, but, once it no longer is, as is inevitable, the premier program in the land, will a future AD continue to devote serious and precious resources to safeguard its future, or will a certain contentment to allow it to be just another good program prevail? Me, I’m not so sure the reality at that time will look all that different than it does in Knoxville today. Hope I’m wrong!

 

[Waquoit]

This is why you don't load your schedule with early-season cupcakes. The sugar rush UT fans had during that early season undefeated streak has worn off long ago and now they are left with a team that wasn't ready to compete in the Round of 32. But this is what happens when the coach's main goal is continued employment.