Warlick's time coming to a close?

[CL82]

dd to it that Holly lacks Pat's personality and charisma and is unable to get her team to play with the intensity Pat did,

Back in her heyday Summitt could will her team to victory. I have my issues with some of her actions, but that woman was scary tough.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Agreed. Geno had Megan on the floor for 2 minutes against L'ville. She had 2 assists, and played 2 minutes, and obviously did something, so he planted her butt on the bench and she didn't see a second of PT the rest of the game. A few years back he benched Stewie and Tuck for almost an entire game. After the Tulsa game, he unloaded on the team even tho they won by 18.

IMHO Holly does not hold the players accountable. All she does is whine about it at press conferences when the don't do what they are supposed to. Well guess what? Stop coaching to solely "win" the game, and coach to teach your team to get better. If that means sitting 4 of your 5 starters for the entire half, putting in the reserves, getting walloped and taking a loss, then so be it - the team will know you mean business.

Instead, she leaves players in who aren't doing what they apparently are supposed to, and then whines about it after the game. My advice to her - grow a pair, and coach the team like a leader instead of like a friend or companion.

Here here Eric!!! Holly reminds me of someone who runs a car into the ground rather than does the necessary maintenance things that need to be done along the way.....

If someone is not performing, to your point, sit them down.... If Westbrook is injured sit her out..... and how many times has Holly directed her team to do this or that.... and they just will not do it..... the example of her calling a defense in the latter stages of Alabama game and having the team running around aimlessly .... or whatever Antonelli said.... I remember she said to press couple of years ago that she told them to get into a defensive stance.... but they just didn't want to..... Wow....

All this is nothing out of the norm since she took over ..... it will be nothing different in the future with her there.

 

[Bama fan]

I do not envy Holly taking over from an institution like Pat S. Just as I do not envy the coach that follows Geno/CD. When I moved from Pittsburgh,Pa. to Alabama in 1985, Bear Bryant was gone for three years, and he was still openly mourned and a constant presence on the local sports scene. Nick Saban arrived in 2007, and it was just two or three years ago that fans began to speak of him with half the respect they had for Bear. Those poor guys that coached in between them ,even though they did okay by most standards , were chumps in most fans eyes. However, Holly has not earned the respect of Vols fans because she does not demand the respect of her players. During a game I watched recently the announcers went on and on about the Tennessee players shoes. They said that the players wanted to wear whatever shoes they liked, even if their team mates chose another style. It was said that Holly just gave up arguing with them because it was too aggravating. One kid was on the floor with the tags still hanging from her shoes! That is something I cannot imagine even being a subject of discussion with Geno, or Bear, or Nick. Holly does not deserve to coach in the shadow of Pat, and never will with an approach such as that. I do not know if all that is true, or just announcers babble. But I was astounded.

 

[DefenseBB]

Their players are standing around and doing a lot of 1 on 1? As of today they have 434 assists on 746 made baskets. So, 58% of their baskets are assisted. Does not sound like 1 on 1 BB to me. We are 568 on 872 or 66%.

Bertie is is correct-the Tenn Team leads the SEC in Assists, the problem is they are also the second WORST in turnovers in the SEC, only Vanderbilt is worse (and people still think Steph White is a good coach???). The A/TO ration is a 0.98, good for 8th in the SEC. You can't win championships doing that. Maybe these are freshman mistakes and will get better-how is Holly's reputation on developing Point Guards? I simply do not recall one during her time. Cooper was, I believe a PG but she had one year before she got hurt and expelled, were there any others?

 

[Volup1]

This is an interesting thread with some good ideas and insights on the Tennessee program. I want to address the issue of why Tennessee continues to attract top players from across the Nation despite the coaching problems and deficiencies cited in this thread:
1. Recruiting. In 2016 Tennessee failed to get any of its true recruiting targets. Zero! That’s when Holly replaced Tennessee’s existing recruiter with Sharrona Reaves from WVU. Coach Reaves had been responsible for helping West Virginia recruit its way back into WCBB prominence. Coach Reaves is a Tennessean from Murfreesboro who played basketball at Alabama. She has two kids of her own that are, more or less, the same age as current recruits. She is sold on Tennessee and is very persuasive with both parents and recruits. The current freshman are her recruits as is next year’s class. Parents seem very comfortable with Tennessee.
2. Facilities. The quality of Tennessee’s women’s basketball facilities are second to none. Thompson-Boling Arena, a new state-of-the-art strength and conditioning facility, new dedicated women’s practice facility, a new student-athlete Learning Center, great athletic dorms, a new SEC broadcasting facility, and a $5 million project (underway) to build new men’s and women’s basketball locker rooms at the arena.
3. The “Lady Vol Tradition.” This has taken a big hit recently but somehow it is still alive: Pat Summitt Plaza, the eight national trophies, the 100 percent graduation rate, the big game crowds (12,000 at the Georgia game), and the Womens’ Basketball HOF.
4. The SEC is an attractive conference for recruits.

Please note that I am answering a question posed in this thread—not bragging. All of the things listed above don’t mean much if Tennessee fails to act to correct its coaching deficiencies. Personally, I am very distressed over our current performance and results. Something has to give but, unfortunately, it may take a few more years of the same before that happens.

 

[toadfoot]

I wish they’d give her a lifetime contract

 

[shizam]

I think HW(and there are many others who have fallen into this category) of being an assistant or associate or just a #2 to a great, prominent #1 just aren't cut out for the role of the leader. Taking it further it's much harder to think of the few who have come close, or matched, or yet exceeded their mentor.
Yes she sure must be a great recruiter and probably filled that role superbly as #2. It's especially hard in today's world where almost every second or comment is publicly available. In an idealistic world one could delegate certain responsibilities to their assistants or associates but including managing a game and motivating players I can't see working too well.
It brings me to Geno & CD. Their partnership maybe unmatched in sports but how would CD do if she either had left U Conn (sure there were many offers) or ultimately takes over when Geno retires. From what I see and hear she doesn't want those headaches and responsibilities. She is so very humble and one could see how uncomfortable she was talking about herself with her being accepted into the HOF. I believe she would do
Much better than HW as a head coach but wouldn't excel. Finding the person who can follow this twosome will be almost impossible task. I don't expect they could repeat what Geno and CD have done but remaining a top notch program would itself be very difficult.
I am not privy to most of what will go into this decision, which likely is not that far off, and from my vantage point Shea Ralph might be the choice. I'd guess that the candidate pool will be enormous with many very capable choices.
The other issue that's part of this equation is the importance of loyalty. In my mind it's amongst the most important aspects of life and is also essential to building a great anything be it family, company or sports team. BUT, there can come a time where one has to look at where things are at, and decide if going against loyalty is the right thing to do. I can think of two extreme but very public examples of the Penn State football program and the Catholic Church, where loyalty carried to its ends, can lead to horrible outcomes not just for the individuals harmed (which should have been foremost) but to the institutions themselves.
Maybe UT values their loyalty to HW and the memory of Pat Summitt more than remaining an elite program. If that was or is the decision I can respect that!
Bronx23

Who is Shea Ralph?

 

[shizam]

Last year L’ville wasn’t anything great and was fortunate to get Tenn at the YUM in the NCAA’s 2nd round. Tenn was terrible down the stretch. Automatic win for Louisville.

Holly is holding WBB back. Keep the recruiting coordinator and get a coach who knows what they are doing and they might challenge UConn. The problem is Tenn has lowered their standards and accepted this is how things are now.

 

[Bayareahusky]

This is an interesting thread with some good ideas and insights on the Tennessee program. I want to address the issue of why Tennessee continues to attract top players from across the Nation despite the coaching problems and deficiencies cited in this thread:
1. Recruiting. In 2016 Tennessee failed to get any of its true recruiting targets. Zero! That’s when Holly replaced Tennessee’s existing recruiter with Sharrona Reaves from WVU. Coach Reaves had been responsible for helping West Virginia recruit its way back into WCBB prominence. Coach Reaves is a Tennessean from Murfreesboro who played basketball at Alabama. She has two kids of her own that are, more or less, the same age as current recruits. She is sold on Tennessee and is very persuasive with both parents and recruits. The current freshman are her recruits as is next year’s class. Parents seem very comfortable with Tennessee.
2. Facilities. The quality of Tennessee’s women’s basketball facilities are second to none. Thompson-Boling Arena, a new state-of-the-art strength and conditioning facility, new dedicated women’s practice facility, a new student-athlete Learning Center, great athletic dorms, a new SEC broadcasting facility, and a $5 million project (underway) to build new men’s and women’s basketball locker rooms at the arena.
3. The “Lady Vol Tradition.” This has taken a big hit recently but somehow it is still alive: Pat Summitt Plaza, the eight national trophies, the 100 percent graduation rate, the big game crowds (12,000 at the Georgia game), and the Womens’ Basketball HOF.
4. The SEC is an attractive conference for recruits.

Please note that I am answering a question posed in this thread—not bragging. All of the things listed above don’t mean much if Tennessee fails to act to correct its coaching deficiencies. Personally, I am very distressed over our current performance and results. Something has to give but, unfortunately, it may take a few more years of the same before that happens.

Volup1 Great post.... you bring up good points.... and in fact i agree with all of them.... LV tradition is great.... fan base is super... and who can argue with the hanging banners from rafters of TBO.... and even in recruiting.... i have always thought.... even with goose egg in 2016, Holly has brought in top talent.... good enough to compete at top level nationally

I have always thought as well (and here is where you may disagree) that some players choose to go to TN because they want to play their own game... write their own ticket.... the "divas" if you will..... DeShields is one who comes to mind... Ariel Massengale is another.... players who do not want to play for an alpha coach.... and be seriously schooled on the fundamentals and finer points of the game....

Looking at the SEC.... i think only South Carolina has brought in talent the last few years to match Tennessee..... I hope for LV fans that the athletic dept looks at the Georgias and Miss States of the conference ..... and even the Arkansas's, Alabamas, and LSUs .....and figure out why LVs are not competitive with them in game situations relative to talent level....

I cannot believe what they believe in Knoxville.... that the SEC is akin to the Yankees Murderers Row of yesteryear.... in past 2 or 3 weeks saw all the games... and LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas did not look like top shelf teams at all.

 

[CtQuip]

I do not envy Holly taking over from an institution like Pat S. Just as I do not envy the coach that follows Geno/CD. When I moved from Pittsburgh,Pa. to Alabama in 1985, Bear Bryant was gone for three years, and he was still openly mourned and a constant presence on the local sports scene. Nick Saban arrived in 2007, and it was just two or three years ago that fans began to speak of him with half the respect they had for Bear. Those poor guys that coached in between them ,even though they did okay by most standards , were chumps in most fans eyes. However, Holly has not earned the respect of Vols fans because she does not demand the respect of her players. During a game I watched recently the announcers went on and on about the Tennessee players shoes. They said that the players wanted to wear whatever shoes they liked, even if their team mates chose another style. It was said that Holly just gave up arguing with them because it was too aggravating. One kid was on the floor with the tags still hanging from her shoes! That is something I cannot imagine even being a subject of discussion with Geno, or Bear, or Nick. Holly does not deserve to coach in the shadow of Pat, and never will with an approach such as that. I do not know if all that is true, or just announcers babble. But I was astounded.

OT...what part of Pittsburgh are you from?

 

[bballnut90]

Women's basketball isn't top priority at Tennessee and I don't see them firing Holly if she's a perennial Sweet 16 coach, even if the product on the floor is awful. Similar to Coach P at Duke. If they're a consistent winning program, the coach isn't going to be fired.

My last glimmer of hope with Holly was this year knowing we didn't have Diamond or Te'a on the roster (the perceived chemistry issues) and we had a talented class coming in. The first chunk of the season, Tennessee had some great bright spots. The win at South Carolina was big, they beat Stanford and Texas (albeit in ugly fashion), the freshmen looked great and players were sharing the ball. I'm not sure what happened--although I think the tough 4 game stretch may have been somewhat demoralizing for the players--but players just look undisciplined, unmotivated and poorly coached. Really poor shot selection, inconsistent effort, bad ball movement, Russell frequently disappears, etc. No in game adjustments, Holly looking frazzled per usual. This is about the 3rd great class Holly has had to work with (along with HS 2011 and 2013) and it appears they are not improving as individuals or as a team as the season progresses. Back in 2013, Bashaara Graves took home a lot of hardware and was playing like the next great All American forward for Tennessee...by all accounts at this point 5 years ago, she was outperforming Breanna Stewart, Morgan Tuck and Moriah Jefferson. We all know how the next 3 seasons (and change) played out, with UCONN's class blossoming and Graves had peaked as a frosh. I'm very concerned that this class will follow the same path of not improving and being a perennial underachieving Sweet 16 team.


And in regards to recruiting--here's the thing. ANYONE should be able to do an outstanding job recruiting players to Tennessee. As noted by a previous poster, Tennessee is not a difficult place to recruit players to when you consider the tradition of success, supportive fan base, the exposure, and the facilities. If you're a HS player, how cool is it knowing you'll probably have Candace Parker, Kara Lawson or Tamika Catchings drop by during the season for practice or stop in the locker room before or after a game?? Landing top kids is the only reason Tennessee is still a top 25 program. If Holly didn't have a plethora of top kids most years, Tennessee wouldn't be a tournament team.

 

[itsasport]

Holly wlll not be replaced. I saw quotes from the AD saying that he was happy with the job she is doing: that the freshmen will get better (really?) and he sees no problem because the fans are still going to the games.

He and the people that hired him could care less about the players and fans. They are only interested in the mens' side and see the women's team as a drain on revenue.

Holly is being paid about a third of major D1 WCBB coaches, for a savings of about a million a year.

Holly's base salary through 2015 was 550K with no mention of other income. She got 65K for winning a league championship. Her base is now 650K. Her failure to get far into the championships must be seen as a good money saver by the administration.

For instance-

Sherri Coale- one million base salary, plus bonuses and fringe income "for a total annual compensation well beyond that figure." Her team record at the time of the article was 18-13.

Kevin McGuff (Ohio State)- base salary 550K, with total income at $1,188,000.

Walz- base pay 775K to 2019, "with major incentives based on success." which totaled 500K in one year (it didn't say what year.)

McGraw in 2015 got a total of 1.3 million. She has a 10 year contract to 2025.

Pat's salary was 1.25 million, plus 500K in other income.

For those who think "good" or "so what"...you could have been born in Tenneessee

I served with many guys from the south, probably some Vol fans, and they have hearts of gold. They deserve better. WCBB would benefit greatly from a revived Tenn

(I'm digging out my flack jacket for the slings and arrows)

 

[DefenseBB]

...He and the people that hired him could care less about the players and fans. They are only interested in the mens' side and see the women's team as a drain on revenue.

Holly is being paid about a third of major D1 WCBB coaches, for a savings of about a million a year.

Pat's salary was 1.25 million, plus 500K in other income.
WCBB would benefit greatly from a revived Tenn

On the surface, I agree with you that Holly will not be fired. I also agree with you that the school does only primarily care about 2 Men's sports-Football and Basketball as that is where their revenue comes from. Due to Title IX, all women's sports must have equal scholarship/participation opportunities and that results in a drain on the budget due to none of these sports making money. Money at Tennessee is an issue due to the coaches they have fired since 2013-Dooley $5 mil, Donnie Tyndall-Unkn, AD John Currie-$5.1 mil, Butch Jones-$13.1 plus the Schiano lawsuit, and the payouts due to the lawsuits from the merger of the two athletic departments that laid-off more of the Women's AD than men's.

However, I think you have grossly overstated that she is paid 1/3 of Major D1 schools salaries. My fairly detailed review of the public institutions show that yes, the ones you mention do get paid the numbers you list. They also have significant Head Coaching experience and strong national success-even McGuff was a head coach as Wash before getting paid handsomely at OSU. The others have won at least one title or more. With most schools being public institutions, they must list salaries. In some cases, additional income from media rights comes into play-Geno, Dawn, Muffet all get half their income from these rights.

Pat's salary should not even be a question given her success at the program. Using that logic you are saying whoever succeeds Geno should get $2.4 mil+? Of course not, so why mention it?

Let's look at the Big10-Indiana, Nebraska, Illinois, Wisconsin all who recently hired new coaches and published their contracts- $300k to $675k for these coaches, all who had prior success as a Head Coach in basketball prior to going to these schools. What HC experience did Holly have? Zero. Yet, she is getting paid quite handsomely. McGuff is the highest paid Big10 coach. Even the best coach in the conference, Brenda Frese, only has a base of $382,000. She does get some additional non-public money, though it does not say how much. Teri Moren at Indiana is getting $300k and that's after successful stints at Indiana State and elsewhere. She does not have more than $100k in other income.

In the SEC Pingeton gets $300k, Fargas $700k base plus incentives to $1.2mil, Vic gets $662k, Ole Miss Insell's gets $475k, and Joni Taylor at Georgia is at $575k.

I could go on and on but you get the gist. As a P5 Coach, she is paid in the upper half of those salaries and that is significantly higher than the mid-majors and lower D1 coaches. She is in the upper third of salaries. I do agree her coaching doesn't warrant the salary though. Best scenario is for her to resign and take on an emeritus role due to her LadyVol connections.

I am financial analyst by profession and irritates the hell out of me when people grossly overstate facts and opinions on money, budgets and revenue. You have done the same here.

Now the reality check for you-Tennessee is 21-5, with wins over Texas, Ok St, Stanford and SC. You continue to recruit elite talent. You don't fire a coach for that. WCBB has done quite nicely the last 10 years without Tenn being in the final four so you are mistaken. For evidence, take a look at the Men's history-UCLA is irrelevant as a former blue blood, yet that sport thrives.

Plus, I do enjoy the theater that is provided over at VolNation with Holly as coach. It would be a shame if Phil fires her and denies us that...

 

[shizam]

Holly wlll not be replaced. I saw quotes from the AD saying that he was happy with the job she is doing: that the freshmen will get better (really?) and he sees no problem because the fans are still going to the games.

He and the people that hired him could care less about the players and fans. They are only interested in the mens' side and see the women's team as a drain on revenue.

Holly is being paid about a third of major D1 WCBB coaches, for a savings of about a million a year.

Holly's base salary through 2015 was 550K with no mention of other income. She got 65K for winning a league championship. Her base is now 650K. Her failure to get far into the championships must be seen as a good money saver by the administration.

For instance-

Sherri Coale- one million base salary, plus bonuses and fringe income "for a total annual compensation well beyond that figure." Her team record at the time of the article was 18-13.

Kevin McGuff (Ohio State)- base salary 550K, with total income at $1,188,000.

Walz- base pay 775K to 2019, "with major incentives based on success." which totaled 500K in one year (it didn't say what year.)

McGraw in 2015 got a total of 1.3 million. She has a 10 year contract to 2025.

Pat's salary was 1.25 million, plus 500K in other income.

For those who think "good" or "so what"...you could have been born in Tenneessee

I served with many guys from the sough, probably some Vol fans, and they have hearts of gold. They deserve better. WCBB would benefit greatly from a revived Tenn

(I'm digging out my flack jacket for the slings and arrows)

Yes like I firmly believe Holly is holding back WBB. We need teams capable of challenging UConn year in and year out. Tenn is one program that has the potential but no coach.