Walking Dead Season 5

[upstater]

I'm not going to read above Dove's post since i'm watching the 11 pm version, but why the hell did Maggie leave with the crew going to DC when she knows the story about her sister being taken away.

 

[meyers7]

I'm not going to read above Dove's post since i'm watching the 11 pm version, but why the hell did Maggie leave with the crew going to DC when she knows the story about her sister being taken away.

A question a lot of people have been asking. I've got to believe at some point (off screen) Daryl has told her Beth is "just gone". She didn't/doesn't know why Daryl and Carol took off in the car. She has no idea it has something to do with Beth. Nobody does except Daryl and Carol right now. I imagine Daryl had told Maggie that he went after the car (before he ran into the Claimers) but Beth was "just gone".

Seems she'd be interested in her husband AND her sister, but they haven't really gotten into that?? I don't know why?

 

[meyers7]

Lol @ Eugene! As called out by some here last season.

Yea, that's the way it was in the comics. But they got to the truth a lot quicker than I thought they would. Be interesting to see where they go from here now. 1) is Eugene alive? 2) What does Abraham have to live for now 3) do they go back and try to find Rick?

Actually more options than just a road trip to DC.

 

[UConn Dan]

Yea, that's the way it was in the comics. But they got to the truth a lot quicker than I thought they would. Be interesting to see where they go from here now. 1) is Eugene alive? 2) What does Abraham have to live for now 3) do they go back and try to find Rick?

Actually more options than just a road trip to DC.

1) yes
2) Rosita
3) yes, at least for now. But the point that Eugene made that Washington would be the most likely place to be still standing in some capacity may give them some incentive to still go there.

One more Daryl Carol Beth episode before we get back to the main group.

 

[meyers7]

1) yes
2) Rosita
3) yes, at least for now. But the point that Eugene made that Washington would be the most likely place to be still standing in some capacity may give them some incentive to still go there.

One more Daryl Carol Beth episode before we get back to the main group.

On the Talking Dead last night Josh McDermitt (Eugene) was answering a question about if he was going to be accepted by the group now. He started to answer a little and then looked over at Gale Hurd (one of the Executive Producers) and she gave him a look and he changed his answer to "if Eugene is still alive,....."

I think he is, but they still probably want people to wonder.

From the way they made it (Eugene's situation) Abraham's mission to somehow get past his family's demise, I suspect this is gonna cause some major problems with him. Maybe not Rick seeing things, or Tyreese not wanting to kill anymor, but something he's going to have to work through.

 

[UConn Dan]

On the Talking Dead last night Josh McDermitt (Eugene) was answering a question about if he was going to be accepted by the group now. He started to answer a little and then looked over at Gale Hurd (one of the Executive Producers) and she gave him a look and he changed his answer to "if Eugene is still alive,....."

I think he is, but they still probably want people to wonder.

From the way they made it (Eugene's situation) Abraham's mission to somehow get past his family's demise, I suspect this is gonna cause some major problems with him. Maybe not Rick seeing things, or Tyreese not wanting to kill anymor, but something he's going to have to work through.

Yes, I saw TD last night and that's one of the reasons I think Eugene is still alive. Josh McDermott looked and sounded like he stepped in it especially with Gale sitting right there, thus the back tracking.

I think you're right that the sarge will be having a tough time coming back from this, but I think part of him knew that Eugene was full of spit and that with Rosita at his side he'll snap out of it quickly.

Last night's episode was well done with how it revealed how Abraham and Eugene met and the way it ended with Abraham on his knees.

The opening with the bus crash and walkers making their way to the bus then followed by walking dead opening theme was great - very walking dead. The fire hose scene was a great visual. And finally the herd at the end - wow - wish they could have shown some more up close shots, but I guess it was their perspective and to show distance. I want more herd action ASAP.

 

[Dove]

Anyone here watching Z Nation on Friday nights? Me and Mrs. Dove are kind of on a roller coaster...likin' it...not likin' it. I hate the Citizen Z character and wonder why he is even there? The show had a huge zombie herd, too.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Oof, I thought that episode was too much like previous WDead stumbles. We had great dramatic tension setup at the Hospital of Horrors and to jump to this group was testing the audiences' patience. They had a clear setup for a slightly backtrack episode with Daryl & Carol - (previews appears to be next week). Storytelling 101 is show that D&C thing YOU cliffhung and get Carol to the hospital. Then resolve hospital and have them headed back towards Rick & Abraham AND THEN we truly wonder what those folks have been up to. Right now there was no reason to jump to that story or if they had to, flip the bus first but then take us back to Daryl (half-n-half parallel track stories).

Some major holes with Tara inexplicably covering for Eugene and Abraham's backstory was sloppily revealed (was A's family horrified by Zombies in general? Brutality of others or brutality of Abraham ? Did he kill out of defense or randomly?). Regardless, the kids and Mom's choice was "I'm so scared let's wander away and get eaten alive?!" How about take his gun?!

On the plus side they did quickly resolve Eugene's idiocy which was getting to the point of incredulity. The fire hose set piece was so good I hardly cared that the water pressure held, the mini-scenes of survival preps in the bookstore were excellent.

To sum up, a central plot point of this episode was a mullet.

 

[UConn Dan]

Oof, I thought that episode was too much like previous WDead stumbles. We had great dramatic tension setup at the Hospital of Horrors and to jump to this group was testing the audiences' patience. They had a clear setup for a slightly backtrack episode with Daryl & Carol - (previews appears to be next week). Storytelling 101 is show that D&C thing YOU cliffhung and get Carol to the hospital. Then resolve hospital and have them headed back towards Rick & Abraham AND THEN we truly wonder what those folks have been up to. Right now there was no reason to jump to that story or if they had to, flip the bus first but then take us back to Daryl (half-n-half parallel track stories).

Some major holes with Tara inexplicably covering for Eugene and Abraham's backstory was sloppily revealed (was A's family horrified by Zombies in general? Brutality of others or brutality of Abraham ? Did he kill out of defense or randomly?). Regardless, the kids and Mom's choice was "I'm so scared let's wander away and get eaten alive?!" How about take his gun?!

On the plus side they did quickly resolve Eugene's idiocy which was getting to the point of incredulity. The fire hose set piece was so good I hardly cared that the water pressure held, the mini-scenes of survival preps in the bookstore were excellent.

To sum up, a central plot point of this episode was a mullet.

Not a fan of the jumping around and waiting for the Daryl Carol Beth bit to resolve. I prefer a linear story even if they have to jump around from group to group, but I see how that would result in even more of soap opera-y storyline and not much resolved in an hour.

I think Tara covered for Eugene in a way like Glenn covered for Tara after the prison. If it was Carol that he confessed to though, she would be asking Eugene to look at the flowers.

Abrahams family had never seen combat Abraham only family man Abraham. They had never known how brutal he could be. They were scared and really naive - killing was not easy before the ZA went down - not like now when Abe says "it's the easiest thing in the world now." They paid the price. There's also a comic backstory to why abe destroyed those guys but that shouldn't matter to the viewer.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think Tara covered for Eugene in a way like Glenn covered for Tara after the prison. If it was Carol that he confessed to though, she would be asking Eugene to look at the flowers.

Abrahams family had never seen combat Abraham only family man Abraham. They had never known how brutal he could be. They were scared and really naive - killing was not easy before the ZA went down - not like now when Abe says "it's the easiest thing in the world now." They paid the price. There's also a comic backstory to why abe destroyed those guys but that shouldn't matter to the viewer.

Glenn covered up Tara's cowering in fear, not from committing an act of sabotage that could have killed them all. To be a survivor in the ZomPoc you simply have to let others know to watch out for that .

The Abraham mistakes are typical comic book writer over-asserting the beats he wants into the story. There is some indication that censors had a problem with this episode, so maybe they took out the motivating family REDACTED SPOILER that I subsequently read was in the comics. But the scenes just didn't work as edited & shown on TV. We don't know if he was beating innocents for food, marauders for protection or his friends for a terrible act. And No way just by his families' LOOKS at him we can tell whether they are afraid of him, other humans, zombies or the entire situation. And then we are to believe that Mrs Arbraham thinks: “Hey kids, we are terrified of this new world and now freaked out by Dad. So let’s walk away from Dad’s scary protection into unprotected horrors far worse. I will leave your deranged father a note though, that seems reasonable.”

And mullet.

 

[UConn Dan]

I've never known a woman to make emotional decisions.

 

[meyers7]

The Abraham mistakes are typical comic book writer over-asserting the beats he wants into the story. There is some indication that censors had a problem with this episode, so maybe they took out the motivating family REDACTED SPOILER that I subsequently read was in the comics. But the scenes just didn't work as edited & shown on TV. We don't know if he was beating innocents for food, marauders for protection or his friends for a terrible act. And No way just by his families' LOOKS at him we can tell whether they are afraid of him, other humans, zombies or the entire situation. And then we are to believe that Mrs Arbraham thinks: “Hey kids, we are terrified of this new world and now freaked out by Dad. So let’s walk away from Dad’s scary protection into unprotected horrors far worse. I will leave your deranged father a note though, that seems reasonable.”

I think the problem the censors had was with the sex scene between Abraham and Rosita. They don't seem to have too many problems with the violence.

Per the comics, Abraham was killing the men because they had (or where trying to) violate his wife and kids.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think the problem the censors had was with the s e x scene between Abraham and Rosita. They don't seem to have too many problems with the violence.

Per the comics, Abraham was killing the men because they had (or where trying to) violate his wife and kids.

Right that's what I read, but it is truly irrelevant to the TV show as it wasn't on the screen. We needed a 5 second shot of the men doing something to his family to justify Abraham's violence and his families' fear. So I was giving the showrunner benefit of the doubt in hypothesizing that's what was cut.

Its interesting now that the show's massive viewership combined with the strong start to this season has now made it a critical darling. Much like you were dismissive of critics when they were negative, I can now see how their opinions are easily dismissed.

I wouldn't critical if it weren't for the fact that we are now 0-2 on cliffhangers. It was 2 episodes ago that Daryl was emerging from the woods with someone and we are yet to resolve. They are shooting themselves in the foot by doing cliffhangers but then not addressing them immediately. You simply have to say I DON"T CARE if you aren't going to see the conclusion for 3 weeks and counting.

 

[meyers7]

I wouldn't critical if it weren't for the fact that we are now 0-2 on cliffhangers. It was 2 episodes ago that Daryl was emerging from the woods with someone and we are yet to resolve. They are shooting themselves in the foot by doing cliffhangers but then not addressing them immediately. You simply have to say I DON"T CARE if you aren't going to see the conclusion for 3 weeks and counting.

That personally doesn't bother me at all. I know I'm gonna watch all the episodes. Whenever they get to it, they get to it. I realize some people don't like it though. I follow it pretty closely though and I realize most people don't. So when they reference stuff from prior episodes (or even prior seasons, i.e. Andrea's "I know how the safety works" from the end of Season 3, referencing Season 1 Episode 2) I get them. So waiting a couple weeks for stuff to play out, is fine with me.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That personally doesn't bother me at all. I know I'm gonna watch all the episodes. Whenever they get to it, they get to it. I realize some people don't like it though. I follow it pretty closely though and I realize most people don't. So when they reference stuff from prior episodes (or even prior seasons, i.e. Andrea's "I know how the safety works" from the end of Season 3, referencing Season 1 Episode 2) I get them. So waiting a couple weeks for stuff to play out, is fine with me.

I'm with DogDeacon. I don't like these side stories back to back. The prior week was good, because it was a better episode and because it did give you the bit of info with Carol at the end. It told you who wasn't with Daryl (Beth, Carol) and suggested who might be (Noah). This week shouldn't have been 100% on the splinter group, just to get to a big reveal that anyone with a brain knew was coming. Any scientist with a cure would have written it down and spread it wide and far. I think the Abraham back-story was partly there to show how he could have been such a colossal sucker for the whole story, due to his unstable emotions at the time.

 

[billythekid]

I thought Abraham made an interesting point at the beginning of the episode that I hadn't thought of before. As the zonbie apocalypse continues, natural selection plays a part in determining that mainly the strongest will survive. This means that survivors they come across, for good or bad, should be stronger and smarter than ones they've met in the past. Kind of obvious when you think about it, but I hadn't really thought about it.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I thought Abraham made an interesting point at the beginning of the episode that I hadn't thought of before. As the zonbie apocalypse continues, natural selection plays a part in determining that mainly the strongest will survive. This means that survivors they come across, for good or bad, should be stronger and smarter than ones they've met in the past. Kind of obvious when you think about it, but I hadn't really thought about it.

True, except the very last guy they met was Gabriel. Bookend that with Eugene as the first guy he met as far as we've seen. Thus far you'd almost have to take the mullet over the preacher in that death cage.

Good point though, hopefully Abraham realizing this is exactly why they head back to reunite and create strength in numbers with Rick's group.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I thought Abraham made an interesting point at the beginning of the episode that I hadn't thought of before. As the zonbie apocalypse continues, natural selection plays a part in determining that mainly the strongest will survive. This means that survivors they come across, for good or bad, should be stronger and smarter than ones they've met in the past. Kind of obvious when you think about it, but I hadn't really thought about it.

Yes, and this is meant to give a reason/justification for Eugene's deception. He recognized this long ago. He's wrong in some ways. The natural selection will favor the capable, physically and mentally for sure and to an extreme degree if they are alone (Michonne). But in a group setting, other skills are useful. The ability to repair machines, medical knowledge, farming knowledge, these have value to a group, not just military/defensive capabilities.

 

[Dove]

Sorry, can't get past the fact that no way does that van NOT go head-first into the ground.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Sorry, can't get past the fact that no way does that van NOT go head-first into the ground.

That's is criticizing every Movie car chase scene though. Arguably best case the van's so top heavy that its somersaulting and lands upside down, but then the suicidal zombies aren't as fun. I had no problem with it due to cool factor.

I think one of their best episodes ever. I wasn't 100% clear where they are going with Carol (teetering between wanting to take no more of any kind & thereby kill every threat on sight and.. what?) but overall that was a well-constructed, well tying up episode setting stage for sold final two episode showdown at the hospital of rape.

I'm hoping they find the books in Carol's bags and she plays herself of as a wimpy, vulnerable damaged woman until recovered and ready to unleash the Hulk on them.

 

[Dove]

That's is criticizing every Movie car chase scene though. Arguably best case the van's so top heavy that its somersaulting and lands upside down, but then the suicidal zombies aren't as fun. I had no problem with it due to cool factor.

I think one of their best episodes ever. I wasn't 100% clear where they are going with Carol (teetering between wanting to take no more of any kind & thereby kill every threat on sight and.. what?) but overall that was a well-constructed, well tying up episode setting stage for sold final two episode showdown at the hospital of rape.

I'm hoping they find the books in Carol's bags and she plays herself of as a wimpy, vulnerable damaged woman until recovered and ready to unleash the Hulk on them.

Not sure how much she can unleash. She injured herself in the van escape and then got crushed by the Cross Car Crew. She is a bit banged up.

 

[UConn Dan]

That's is criticizing every Movie car chase scene though. Arguably best case the van's so top heavy that its somersaulting and lands upside down, but then the suicidal zombies aren't as fun. I had no problem with it due to cool factor.

I think one of their best episodes ever. I wasn't 100% clear where they are going with Carol (teetering between wanting to take no more of any kind & thereby kill every threat on sight and.. what?) but overall that was a well-constructed, well tying up episode setting stage for sold final two episode showdown at the hospital of rape.

I'm hoping they find the books in Carol's bags and she plays herself of as a wimpy, vulnerable damaged woman until recovered and ready to unleash the Hulk on them.

Good episode. Can't wait to see how the rescue mission goes down.

I wonder if how they tied up Carol's story means that she's gonna die in the midseason finale. Somebody's got to die. Seems like they are setting it up this way.

Dog - it was Daryl that took the treating victims of child abuse book. He had alluded to his past abuse when he was Beth.

 

[meyers7]

Episode didn't turn out the way I thought it might. I thought they may set up Carol as a Trojan Horse (to protect Beth) while Daryl and Noah go back to get help. But now it looks like Beth will have to protect Carol until they get back. We'll see how tough Beth really is. Wonder if both of them will make it out?? Like Dan said somebody's gotta die. I could see one of them giving their life for the other. Not sure which way it would go though (the writers would take it).

I was thinking though at the end when Noah told Daryl they would need weapons and manpower to get Beth and Carol back and Daryl said "we got that". Daryl doesn't realize that half the weapons and manpower left for DC. Only Rick, Michonne, Tyreese, Sonya, Carl and the Preacher (along with Judith) are back at the church (and Bob's dead). I imagine Carl will have to stay behind to protect Judith (and the Preacher). I guess an assault of Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Tyreese, Sonya and Noah will be pretty formidable. Tyreese and Michonne seem much better against walkers than humans though. If I were them I'd feel much better with Glenn, Abraham, Maggie and Rosita along.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Episode didn't turn out the way I thought it might. I thought they may set up Carol as a Trojan Horse (to protect Beth) while Daryl and Noah go back to get help. But now it looks like Beth will have to protect Carol until they get back. We'll see how tough Beth really is. Wonder if both of them will make it out?? Like Dan said somebody's gotta die. I could see one of them giving their life for the other. Not sure which way it would go though (the writers would take it).

I was thinking though at the end when Noah told Daryl they would need weapons and manpower to get Beth and Carol back and Daryl said "we got that". Daryl doesn't realize that half the weapons and manpower left for DC. Only Rick, Michonne, Tyreese, Sonya, Carl and the Preacher (along with Judith) are back at the church (and Bob's dead). I imagine Carl will have to stay behind to protect Judith (and the Preacher). I guess an assault of Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Tyreese, Sonya and Noah will be pretty formidable. Tyreese and Michonne seem much better against walkers than humans though. If I were them I'd feel much better with Glenn, Abraham, Maggie and Rosita along.

I'd thought about a Carol THorse, but really she had to get hurt for them not to immediately smoke it out. Carol couldn't have gone in there as a high plains drifter with guns blaring beneath an operating gown.

Doesn't need to be a war really. They could try negotiating or ambush a car and trade hostages. Or maybe just smoke them out, start a fire in the building basement and wait for them to come out the front door. Risks Beth & Carol but so does a fight. A scene with Rick and the demented female sheriff one-on-one is a must, but regardless, I now TRUST them to do a good job with it

 

[meyers7]

They could try negotiating or ambush a car and trade hostages.

Originally I thought that might have been an option with who Daryl had with him in the woods. But now we know it's Noah. BUT, that could still be an option.

Although I don't know if Rick will be willing to leave these type of people for others to fall prey to.

Remember he has said, "these are my people, if you do anything to hurt them, I will kill you."