Wake Forest Post Game Thread

[FfldCntyFan]

Something that people need to include in the equation as to why our running game seems to have fallen off a cliff in the past two home games after appearing to be nearly unstoppable for the first three is the quality of the defensive lines we've faced in each game.

Tom Hermann (FAU's head coach) is notorious for preferring smaller, quicker defensive linemen. That may have been the best defensive front we faced at home in the three games prior to Temple and our offensive line was able to push them around almost at will.

It isn't a schematic problem. The problem is that we need to get considerably stronger (physically) on both lines of scrimmage if we want to be able to compete at a level similar to where we were able to compete fifteen years ago.

Hopefully we can turn the corner in the weight room but in all candor, a few individuals aside (who I imagine took it upon themselves to get the work in), as a program we have failed miserably on this front. We need stronger players on both lines of scrimmage, we need more athleticism in the secondary and we need much better QB play.

In Mora's defense he's trying to alter the course of an aircraft carrier that was pointed in the wrong direction. Turning it around will take a bit more time. I'm encouraged by a couple younger players on our roster, by what we accomplished in the transfer portal (and NIL) this past offseason and by the ambitions we seem to have for this upcoming offseason.

Hopefully we can take another noticable step forward when we start building the 2025 roster.

One concern, to build a sustainable program we need more from HS recruiting. Transfers can help a lot as long as it doesn't represent the bulk of the roster. Football isn't a sport where you can just slap together a bunch of pretty good players and expect immediate results. Continuity is critical (as the Jets). Our foundation needs to be players with a few years in the system for us to consistently succeed at a reasonably high level.

 

[ZooCougar]

You mentioned stats, so I thought I would throw that up there. With the stats show is a very close game. What the final score showed was also a very close game. In the end, the difference was not the passing game, but the ineffective running game.

Yeah and last week we were lectured on how the running game is so much better with Evers.

The passing game wasn’t very effective with Evers. We are wasting quite possibly the best group of receivers we have ever had.

There was “bounce pass” to Bell that was particularly bad. Another short 7 yarder that would have been a big gain that was woefully/comically off target.

Also if Evers’ best day passing is equal to Fagnano’s worst then you aren’t exactly convincing anyone.

 

[NickDanger]

independent = getting hosed by refs.

Every team that loses things they were screwed by the refs

 

[ZooCougar]

You mentioned stats, so I thought I would throw that up there. With the stats show is a very close game. What the final score showed was also a very close game. In the end, the difference was not the passing game, but the ineffective running game.

Another thing. They basically gave him a quarter of those yards eating up time on one of our last drives. They were perfectly happy with letting us complete 4-6 yard passes.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yeah, I agree with you that it's nice to have receivers who can actually get separation, though they definitely got more separation against FCS and G5 opponents. Neither one of these guys is the second coming of Orlovsky out there. I don't have a strong preference between the two of them. I do think that Evers throw looks like it's less likely to be picked off, well, except when he drills a DB right in the numbers. That's going to get caught more times than not. I am fine with whom ever Mora puts out there. I don't think either has separated himself from the other.

You have two mediocre QBs each with distinctive skill sets.

One of them has a skill set that opens up the pass game better and allows us to use WRs that we committed resources towards.

The other was billed as a dual threat but his passing game is very much a work in progress. And now the staff doesn’t want to run him because of concussion issues. So there really isn’t even one threat.

Which do you think gives us a better chance to compete?

 

[gioff2323]

You have two mediocre QBs each with distinctive skill sets.

One of them has a skill set that opens up the pass game better and allows us to use WRs that we committed resources towards.

The other was billed as a dual threat but his passing game is very much a work in progress. And now the staff doesn’t want to run him because of concussion issues. So there really isn’t even one threat.

Which do you think gives us a better chance to compete?

I’m a little confused - so u think JF is better? It’s completely unclear by your 500 posts saying the same thing.

 

[CL82]

Yeah and last week we were lectured on how the running game is so much better with Evers.

The passing game wasn’t very effective with Evers. We are wasting quite possibly the best group of receivers we have ever had.

There was “bounce pass” to Bell that was particularly bad. Another short 7 yarder that would have been a big gain that was woefully/comically off target.

Also if Evers’ best day passing is equal to Fagnano’s worst then you aren’t exactly convincing anyone.

I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. I have no strong preference between the two of them. I do think that the Merrimack game has left some people with the impression that Fagnano is second coming of Dan Marino. He's not.

I think we can find an agreement that if you've gotten RPO quarterback, who can't or won't run, he's probably not a great choice.

 

[CL82]

Which do you think gives us a better chance to compete?

I actually think it's a coin flip. Our passing attack is definitely better with Fagnano, but it's not like he lit the world on fire against temple.

 

[Husky68]

Every team that loses things they were screwed by the refs

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after me.

 

[ZooCougar]

I actually think it's a coin flip. Our passing attack is definitely better with Fagnano, but it's not like he lit the world on fire against temple.

It’s not a coin flip. Come on.

 

[BlueandOG]

I have not yet watched the replay of the game but have calned down enough to say a few things:

• Tremendous opportunity lost but season still can be very succesful
• Teams have to learn to win as its not easy; We probably should have won the Duke game and could have won this one. Counteracted by we should have probably lost to Temple.
• The last no call Was pathetic. A lot of other issues too. But on the bad spots its about the 5th time we have been victimized by it. That is on our coaching staff. If I see it from 100 yards away after 7 beers someone on the staff has to be on it. Put me in the booth with a TV and I could run better game management then what we have seen.
• That slow mesh was imfutiating. Was wondering hpw e never got there and did not blow it up at least a few times.

By next Saturday my crazy fandom will take over but still aggravated about this one for a few more days.

Where can I find a replay of the game?

 

[JohnFSilver]

Evers can't throw the ball down field and it makes our offense extremely easy to defend.

You're focusing too much on the stats and not relying on you eyes - I've seen the same thingies with Daniel Jones in his "good" games. Decent completion percentage, low TOs, can maybe run a bit.. but it doesn't show the inability to get chunk plays or the opportunities to get our guys the ball in a position to make plays.

Fagnano isn't a world beater by any stretch but I think he has the higher ceiling because he can stretch the field and gets the ball into our playmakers hands.

Fagano is inaccurate and erratic. He has better arm strength at this point in career, but he doesn’t do it with accuracy. His short and intermediate throws are off.

He has had good games this year, but watching each last couple of weeks, fagnano against Temple and Evers against Wake, I think Evers has greater upside and efficiency.

Let’s take their last two games.

Fagano against Temple

58% completion, 112.2 rating, QBR 22.8
Avg. per attempt: 6.6
Avg completion : 11.3

Evers against Wake
60% completion, 129 rating, 39.8 QBR.
Avg. per attempt. 6.2
Avg Per completion: 10.2

Wake > Temple, I don’t think that is a controversial take.

Where is this the he stretches the field showing up?

Temple game was Fagano’s first start since Merrimack.

They are virtually identical in production and how they play/pass.

2-0 for Fagnano
2-3 for Evers, three losses to P4 teams (it sucks).

That Merrimack game , y’all thought we had Joe Montana or something.

 

[ZooCougar]

Fagano is inaccurate and erratic. He has better arm strength at this point in career, but he doesn’t do it with accuracy. His short and intermediate throws are off.

He has had good games this year, but watching each last couple of weeks, fagnano against Temple and Evers against Wake, I think Evers has greater upside and efficiency.

Let’s take their last two games.

Fagano against Temple

58% completion, 112.2 rating, QBR 22.8
Avg. per attempt: 6.6
Avg completion : 11.3

Evers against Wake
60% completion, 129 rating, 39.8 QBR.
Avg. per attempt. 6.2
Avg Per completion: 10.2

Wake > Temple, I don’t think that is a controversial take.

Where is this the he stretches the field showing up?

Temple game was Fagano’s first start since Merrimack.

They are virtually identical in production and how they play/pass.

2-0 for Fagnano
2-3 for Evers, three losses to P4 teams (it sucks).

That Merrimack game , y’all thought we had Joe Montana or something.

Do you not see how horribly out of position receivers are when Evers throws?

There is a reason why Fagnano gets more YAC.

Your take isn’t controversial, it’s just dumb.

 

[Jetskies]

I really want to know where the coaches are, with Welliver.
I think we've seen enough to know that UConn's quarterback has not played yet.

would truly truly be a shame if he left us before getting a legit shot.

 

[Purple Stein]

Mora’s got a 5 year plan going forward - 2 years of Evers followed by 3 of Welliver. He’ll get his turn as a backup next year and then he’ll lead us to the promised land over the next 3.

This all assumes we can keep him…

 

[TMB4405]

Where can I find a replay of the game?

I record every game. So not sure if there is another place to find. Will watch tonight.

 

[uconnbill]

It’s not a coin flip. Come on.

Sorry, but Fagnano has worse numbers against a team that is not equal to Wake and he doesn't have the overall abilities of Evers.
Evers is better going forward at quarterback.

Joe Fagnano#2

C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT		QBR
24/41	272	6.6	1	2		22.8
24/41	272	6.6	1	2		--

UConn Passing

Nick Evers#3
team

C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT		QBR
26/43	264	6.1	2	1		39.9
26/43	264	6.1	2	1		--

 

[uconnbill]

I really want to know where the coaches are, with Welliver.
I think we've seen enough to know that UConn's quarterback has not played yet.

would truly truly be a shame if he left us before getting a legit shot.

Redshirting is not a bad thing with Welliver. He needs weight room strength and add some mobility. We know he has the arm.

 

[Kembafan]

Mora’s got a 5 year plan going forward - 2 years of Evers followed by 3 of Welliver. He’ll get his turn as a backup next year and then he’ll lead us to the promised land over the next 3.

This all assumes we can keep him…

I don’t know what Mora’s plan is, but I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t add a much better option than Evers for next year.

 

[Purple Stein]

Sorry, but Fagnano has worse numbers against a team that is not equal to Wake and he doesn't have the overall abilities of Evers.
Evers is better going forward at quarterback.

Joe Fagnano#2

C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT		QBR
24/41	272	6.6	1	2		22.8
24/41	272	6.6	1	2		--

UConn Passing

Nick Evers#3
team

C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT		QBR
26/43	264	6.1	2	1		39.9
26/43	264	6.1	2	1		--

Temple is 84th in team defense.

Wake is 125th.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

2-0 for Fagnano
2-3 for Evers, three losses to P4 teams (it sucks).

I assume when people say Evers has more upside, that means more room for improvement. If so, I agree. As a dual threat I could make a case for starting him, but if he's not running, I prefer Fagnano. Based on how little each QB has played over the last couple years, the stats I cherry picked from John are as meaningful as comparing single game stats of the Temple and Wake games. At this point I just want to win. I don't care about 3 and 5 year plans. We have an urgency to win now (Big 12?), so I could give a rat's behind about developing for the future. As Al Davis said regarding the Raiders, "Just win baby!" Get into the B12 and then develop to your heart's content.

 

[Tdaley]

Fagano is inaccurate and erratic. He has better arm strength at this point in career, but he doesn’t do it with accuracy. His short and intermediate throws are off.

He has had good games this year, but watching each last couple of weeks, fagnano against Temple and Evers against Wake, I think Evers has greater upside and efficiency.

Let’s take their last two games.

Fagano against Temple

58% completion, 112.2 rating, QBR 22.8
Avg. per attempt: 6.6
Avg completion : 11.3

Evers against Wake
60% completion, 129 rating, 39.8 QBR.
Avg. per attempt. 6.2
Avg Per completion: 10.2

Wake > Temple, I don’t think that is a controversial take.

Where is this the he stretches the field showing up?

Temple game was Fagano’s first start since Merrimack.

They are virtually identical in production and how they play/pass.

2-0 for Fagnano
2-3 for Evers, three losses to P4 teams (it sucks).

That Merrimack game , y’all thought we had Joe Montana or something.

I agree with this analysis. People should ignore the the Merrimack game and just look at the Temple and Wake Forest games when they are trying to compare both quarterbacks. I think the comparison is close and I don't think that Evers is that great of a runner. Still, he is a better runner than Fagano and has made few more quality throws than Joe against similar competition. ( both quarterbacks made some pretty bad throws in the last 2 games ) Evers has not been as good as the fan based wanted or hope for. But, that doesn't mean the backup is better. For those who think that neither quarterback is good enough to raise our offense to where it needs to be to beat P4 teams , I can't not disagree with them at this point in time. Also, had Joe been the starter from day one would we be in a better place today? Maybe, but I trust the coaches who got to watch both kids over the summer and determine that Evers has better skills to run our offense than Joe, although not by a large margin. I am glad that we do have both players on our roster. Lets hope that Evers continues to get better and we win the next 2 home games.

 

[UConn Dan]

Can someone post a link to it? I've looked on UConn+, on YouTube, and just googled it and I can't find it. That was such a frustrating finish. It would be somewhat satisfying to see Mora ream them out on it.

NSFW

 

[Tdaley]

Temple is 84th in team defense.

Wake is 125th.

Against different competition. Wake is at the bottom of the ACC in defense but they looked better to me than Temple in our last two games.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I actually think it's a coin flip. Our passing attack is definitely better with Fagnano, but it's not like he lit the world on fire against temple.

Is the passing attack better? Has thrown a couple of nice balls, missed wide open wide receivers. 8 yard-hitch and a 65 yard td is not really on the QB. That is on the WR.

I just think people are blinded by the Merrimack game and lopsided total stats.

They are about even. Fagano better getting ball deep a couple of times a game, but he also wildly misses some time. Not a run threat.

Evers, isn’t as experienced with progressions, just starting to settle game speed. Good athlete and runner and more mobile if not a runner.

To me, they are close. You can make an argument for either and really the other side can’t be that upset at the choice.

So, because if that, I go with the youth and upside and superior athleticism.