Vols/UConn Series Might be Renewed

[RadyLady]

That's just a small sample of their strongest-SOS trophies, which they awarded themselves monthly.

And nothing compared to their collection of trophies for the team which, as of the close of each month, had the coach with the most career victories.

Don't forget the trophies for having the most NC's. they gave themselves one this year for tying for the most NC's.

Next they will give themselves trophies for having the most trophies.

You both forgot to mention the tally of empty Miller Light cans....

 

[RadyLady]

What a hoot. We certainly have been beating a dead horse. Oh well, a good if academic summer exercise. Tenn is still the Evil Empire ... just a smaller, less significant one.

yea....instead of the Death Star, they're riding space scooters.....


Still, it was a good thread for a rainy day....

 

[msf22b]

For so many otherwise intelligent folk to be revisiting old grudges and worrying about what anyone says on their silly boards

I say: Sticks and Stones…forget about it, it's of no consequence.
Woman's BB needs all the help it can get…Let ESPN hype the living heck out of it.

Play Ball!

I know the matter of Pat attempting to discredit our program is no joke, but she failed and now is in such serious decline that even Geno makes warm noises.

I actually love the idea of Pat being required to sit and watch while her team of Big Mac all-stars is ripped open and demolished on National TV.

 

[Wbbfan1]

I didn't understand why Maria would write the article she did with her close ties to the Lady Vols. She knows what Holly and those associated with the Lady Vols feel. It is as John has written.

John A reached out to Holly earlier in the week to talk to her about the possibility of renewing the series:

Earlier this week I called Tennessee after seeing a picture of Geno and Holly Warlick in the Knoxville News taken on Women’s Hall of Fame induction night last Saturday.

They were smiling. Broadly. I grew hopeful. Peace at last.

So I called Tennessee on Monday and asked if I could speak to Warlick to ask her if this picture meant good things for the renewal of the series that ended in 2007.

Tennessee would not even put her on the phone.

I was told the program had made a statement in May saying the series would not be renewed and they were sticking to their story.

So take that for what its worth. I have been told by a few people that ride the fence in this rivalry, meaning they don’t take partisan sides, that Warlick will not reschedule UConn out of respect to Coach Summitt’s wishes.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-women/

This is beyond tedious.

 

[UCONNfan1]

I didn't understand why Maria would write the article she did with her close ties to the Lady Vols. She knows what Holly and those associated with the Lady Vols feel. It is as John has written.

Maybe she wanted to sit back and enjoy the hoopla that was sure to ensue on the UCONN board?

 

[ed4ourgirls]

I mentioned that the any new series between UConn and Tenn will be less of a spectacle than games of yore (once we get through the hype and get to the actual game). One blowout, and the interest in this marquis match will wane significantly.

I agree with this. Many of the people in the media and elsewhere who are clambering for a game
do not, I think, want a game between UConn and Tennessee as the teams are presently constituted,
but rather, a game like the good old days.

But of course this is not possible and won't be possible until Tennessee regains the stature it once
had vis a vis UConn.

 

[doggydaddy]

For so many otherwise intelligent folk to be revisiting old grudges and worrying about what anyone says on their silly boards

I say: Sticks and Stones…forget about it, it's of no consequence.
Woman's BB needs all the help it can get…Let ESPN hype the living heck out of it.

Play Ball!

I know the matter of Pat attempting to discredit our program is no joke, but she failed and now is in such serious decline that even Geno makes warm noises.

I actually love the idea of Pat being required to sit and watch while her team of Big Mac all-stars is ripped open and demolished on National TV.

You weren't here then. You didn't have the Compliance office call you about a SIGN. You didn't have someone request the FBI look into one of your posts. You didn't see the ethnic slur about Geno. You didn't have posts used against Uconn.


It was personal. It still is for many here. You won't change that.

 

[JS]

When I spoke of vulgarity and ugliness, I was not exclusively posting about Vol fans or their board... I am more concerned with the effect that conflict had upon us. Many here on the BY found themselves dragged down into the muck by the human instinct to fight back...

Nonsense, my ol' pal Boo. Don't lapse into moral equivocation.

They are swinish, we are noble.

One of those immutable truths.

 

[Suebird10fan]

For all the talk about Tennessee as a second-tier program, they are still the #5 program of the 2010s thus far and will continue to be as long as they rack up #1 and #2 seeds and make the Elite 8 or better, which they are certainly poised to do. That is a decided departure from being the #1 or #2 program, which they were in the 1980s (#2), 1990s (#1), and 2000s (#2), but it is not the same as a precipitous drop. They just signed the #1 player in the 2013 class, continue to bring in AA talent, continue to be televised nationally to a significant degree, and continue to have well-attended games.

UConn currently has existing series with Baylor, Stanford, and Duke, and a home-and-home with Maryland. The Notre Dame rivalry has been discontinued for the time being, as has Oklahoma (not much of a series in any event). UConn is also entering a profoundly mediocre conference which will soon be without Rutgers or Louisville.

Personally, I'd much rather UConn have more than three interesting regular season games a year. How interesting Tennessee is as an opponent can be debated, I suppose, but to pretend that it's not a markedly better game than, say, Oregon or College of Charleston, or even Ohio State or Florida State, would be downright silly. It's a good game, one involving the two programs with the largest fanbases and the most history, and it's worth restoring. It's good for both programs, and it's good for ESPN.

I don't really give a damn about Pat Summitt's accusations, as they did not stick, nor have they materially impacted UConn as a program or Geno's standing in his field. What matters is that the top 10 programs play one another, as those programs have the lion's share of the talent and quality coaching in the sport (save the odd exception like Brian Giorgis).

The series will return. The fanfare may not be what it was in 1995. Nutmeggers may not risk life and limb in the middle of a blizzard to pack the house like they did in 2003. But they game will be played, it will feature between 15 and 25 high school AAs, it will be a hot ticket, and, when played in Knoxville, it will be one of the more hostile environments UConn will play in (never a bad thing). Knightsbridge's question as to what the appeal is at this point certainly could elicit a range of responses, but the converse question, namely what is the downside, categorically elicits the response of "none" as far as I'm concerned. Dogmatic protestations to the contrary, I'll be delighted when the series renews. If you're not interested, perhaps you can get your fill of women's basketball teams from Tennessee by attending the Memphis game. One can only imagine that tickets will be readily available.

I completely agree with all of this Alex. No down side. There is a tremendous amount of passion for WCBB in Knoxville. It's a good thing for WCBB to encourage that.

 

[doggydaddy]

We can want them to play, we can hope they never meet. But what is clear, it doesn't matter........

 

[reno tony]

Its obvious to me that I must have been unclear...

My argument has nothing to do with giving or denying satisfaction to anyone. When I spoke of vulgarity and ugliness, I was not exclusively posting about Vol fans or their board... I am more concerned with the effect that conflict had upon us. Many here on the BY found themselves dragged down into the muck by the human instinct to fight back... As I said before, the BY became unreadable at times... the mods wore out their delete buttons and a general snarkiness would all too often become the tone of the day.

Otherwise level headed Boneyarders fell prey to this ugliness... People that thought that they never would, did. There is no one more mature, reasonable and classy Boneyarder than our own Kib. But eventually even Kib jumped into the fight... If Kib wasn't immune to the tussle, then nobody is... The game was lost in the chaos... it devolved to a point where the chaos became nearly as important as the game itself... this is the essence of my argument. It began with fun and fanfare, but ended with vulgarity and ugliness. I'd be curious to hear why you think that it would be different this time around.

As far as I can detect, nothing has changed that would suggest that a better outcome would unfold for us this time around. No rational explanations or apologies have signaled a change of heart... Maria's article would suggest that nothing has changed. So, to my mind, we have no reasonable expectation that this will end any better than the last time... So, my question is:: what is so compelling about walking the same ugly path again and why do you believe that we here on the BY would be immune to the instinct to fight back against perceived attacks this time?

As I posted, although the checkerboard was absolutely vile, our own board was also unreadable at times... Like some of my Vol friends might suggest, wrestling with a pig just gets you muddy and the pig enjoys the tussle.

Boo

Since I was not posting or reading this board during the first craziness I am at a loss to answer part of your question. As good intentioned as the Boneyarders were, it sounds as though they were just as irrational as whoever they thought was causing their craziness. I guess my point is that I refuse to let someone drag me down into the mud by slinging insults toward others. I don't believe that any Vol or Husky fan should have that type of effect on other team's fans. I haven't seen that type of insanity on the BY and hope I don't.

Why should it be different? Different UT coach, talk of restarting the series and seven years. Hopefully people grow and learn from mistakes. I would like to think that other coaches, former players, friends and respected piers have spoken to the powers that be and had a positive influence. But, I don't believe the circumstances are the same and certainly don't expect UCONN to shy away from doing right because of a bunch of bloggers..... either BY or TENN.

We all have our trigger topics and the UCONN/TENN series is one of mine. I feel both school's athletic departments let all WCBB fans down by discontinuing this series. As popular as both coaches are, the A.D.'s let us down by allowing Pat and Geno to run who they play. I believe there is plenty of guilt to spread around. And if the series is not restarted I will lose some more respect for the A.D.s for both schools.

I do hope all goes well and the "ugliness" doesn't raise it's head in the BY if the series restarts. Thanks for your opinion and insight into what happened in the past.

 

[doggydaddy]

Since I was not posting or reading this board during the first craziness I am at a loss to answer part of your question. As good intentioned as the Boneyarders were, it sounds as though they were just as irrational as whoever they thought was causing their craziness. I guess my point is that I refuse to let someone drag me down into the mud by slinging insults toward others. I don't believe that any Vol or Husky fan should have that type of effect on other team's fans. I haven't seen that type of insanity on the BY and hope I don't.

Why should it be different? Different UT coach, talk of restarting the series and seven years. Hopefully people grow and learn from mistakes. I would like to think that other coaches, former players, friends and respected piers have spoken to the powers that be and had a positive influence. But, I don't believe the circumstances are the same and certainly don't expect UCONN to shy away from doing right because of a bunch of bloggers..... either BY or TENN.

We all have our trigger topics and the UCONN/TENN series is one of mine. I feel both school's athletic departments let all WCBB fans down by discontinuing this series. As popular as both coaches are, the A.D.'s let us down by allowing Pat and Geno to run who they play. I believe there is plenty of guilt to spread around. And if the series is not restarted I will lose some more respect for the A.D.s for both schools.

I do hope all goes well and the "ugliness" doesn't raise it's head in the BY if the series restarts. Thanks for your opinion and insight into what happened in the past.

And how exactly did Geno end this series?

You are clueless about this.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Since I was not posting or reading this board during the first craziness I am at a loss to answer part of your question. As good intentioned as the Boneyarders were, it sounds as though they were just as irrational as whoever they thought was causing their craziness. I guess my point is that I refuse to let someone drag me down into the mud by slinging insults toward others. I don't believe that any Vol or Husky fan should have that type of effect on other team's fans. I haven't seen that type of insanity on the BY and hope I don't.

Why should it be different? Different UT coach, talk of restarting the series and seven years. Hopefully people grow and learn from mistakes. I would like to think that other coaches, former players, friends and respected piers have spoken to the powers that be and had a positive influence. But, I don't believe the circumstances are the same and certainly don't expect UCONN to shy away from doing right because of a bunch of bloggers..... either BY or TENN.

We all have our trigger topics and the UCONN/TENN series is one of mine. I feel both school's athletic departments let all WCBB fans down by discontinuing this series. As popular as both coaches are, the A.D.'s let us down by allowing Pat and Geno to run who they play. I believe there is plenty of guilt to spread around. And if the series is not restarted I will lose some more respect for the A.D.s for both schools.

I do hope all goes well and the "ugliness" doesn't raise it's head in the BY if the series restarts. Thanks for your opinion and insight into what happened in the past.

I must say that in your lack of background you have done both the Boneyard and UConn coaches and administration an injustice. The end of the series was a unilateral Tennessee decision directly attributed to Pat Summit. There was no craziness going on here over the Tennessee hooligans. Occasionally one of their trolls would show up and try to rile things up, and once in a while they would get something going that quickly was locked down. Pat and her minions attacks upon UConn and Geno did create understandable discussion and a good deal of justifiable ill will. Personally I will be glad to see the dead rivalry stay buried as long as Tennessee carries on the attitude of the Summit era.

 

[Phil]

Don't forget the trophies for having the most NC's. they gave themselves one this year for tying for the most NC's.

Next they will give themselves trophies for having the most trophies.

I literally laughed out loud.

Once you can get a trophy for having the most trophies, the singularity isn't far behind.

 

[reno tony]

And how exactly did Geno end this series?

You are clueless about this.

Where did I say Geno ended the series?

 

[Icebear]

Renotony wrote: "I obviously feel differently. I choose not to let some who descend "into vulgarity and ugliness" dictate how I feel and prefer not to give them the satisfaction that they somehow have changed my life. I will always feel that ending that series was the most disrespectful thing that Pat and/or Geno did to WCBB. You can choose who you believe is to blame."

 

[RadyLady]

wow - just wow

 

[reno tony]

I must say that in your lack of background you have done both the Boneyard and UConn coaches and administration an injustice. The end of the series was a unilateral Tennessee decision directly attributed to Pat Summit. There was no craziness going on here over the Tennessee hooligans. Occasionally one of their trolls would show up and try to rile things up, and once in a while they would get something going that quickly was locked down. Pat and her minions attacks upon UConn and Geno did create understandable discussion and a good deal of justifiable ill will. Personally I will be glad to see the dead rivalry stay buried as long as Tennessee carries on the attitude of the Summit era.

I took background from a post directed to me earlier in this thread concerning what went on in the boneyard during the craziness and I was lead to believe that even the most diplomatic of bloggers became frustrated and lashed out in irrational ways. But I have been reading and watching UCONN WBB for 25 years now. And I will restate that the worse thing that happened has been the termination of THE series.

I believe it is the responsibility of the Athletic Directors to direct and the coaches to coach. Obviously the coaches should have some input, but the A.D.s are ultimately responsible for their school's athletic departments. That means at TENN as well. More complicated differences have been overcome than some coach getting his/her undies in a bunch. I hope people that have better attitudes than some on this blog are the ones making the decision on the reinstatement of the UCONN/TENN series. It is a complete shame that two teams that share 16 titles between them don't play...... such a shame.

 

[reno tony]

Renotony wrote: "I obviously feel differently. I choose not to let some who descend "into vulgarity and ugliness" dictate how I feel and prefer not to give them the satisfaction that they somehow have changed my life. I will always feel that ending that series was the most disrespectful thing that Pat and/or Geno did to WCBB. You can choose who you believe is to blame."

I left the decision to others and chose not to take a side.

 

[Icebear]

I left the decision to others and chose not to take a side.

None the less Geno had no say, never did and had no part or responsibility for the cancellation. There was no decision for others to make as you implied.

 

[msf22b]

You weren't here then. You didn't have the Compliance office call you about a SIGN. You didn't have someone request the FBI look into one of your posts. You didn't see the ethnic slur about Geno. You didn't have posts used against UConn.


It was personal. It still is for many here. You won't change that.

Doggy

I am reminded of what one of my idols Herr Mozart had to say about this sort of situation
.
In Dr. Bartolo's aria (Act I/4) in the Marriage of Figaro (lyrics by Lorenzo da Ponte), Bartolo (10 years earlier) had managed to lose control of his youthful ward, whom he had intended to marry (in the best commedia tradition), in part due to the machinations of the local barber, Figaro

A decade later, his anger and thoughts of revenge are unabated. (all chronicled in Rossini's opera, written 30 years or so later)

I always thought this backwards Golden Rule a perfect antidote to long term holders of grudges.

La vendetta, oh, la vendetta! Vengeance, oh, vengeance
È un piacer serbato ai saggi. Is a pleasure reserved for the wise
L'obliar l'onte e gli oltraggi To overlook affront and insult
è bassezza, è ognor viltà. Belongs to the base and cowardly

(emphasis mine).

 

[Kibitzer]

Where did I say Geno ended the series?

When you said: "I feel both school's [sic] athletic departments let all WCBB fans down by discontinuing this series."

That's when you wanted Geno to share the blame with Pat when the action to end the series was solely, exclusively and unilaterally by her.

Got it now?

 

[reno tony]

When you said: "I feel both school's [sic] athletic departments let all WCBB fans down by discontinuing this series."

That's when you wanted Geno to share the blame with Pat when the action to end the series was solely, exclusively and unilaterally by her.

Got it now?

Nope

 

[reno tony]

None the less Geno had no say, never did and had no part or responsibility for the cancellation. There was no decision for others to make as you implied.

I guess I will end my participation in this by stating that more than one person is responsible. If you will read my later response, I mainly blame the A.D.s for not having the nerve to do what they should have done.... keep the series going. Coaches don't(or shouldn't) run the athletic departments.

 

[Kibitzer]

Doggy

I am reminded of what one of my idols Herr Mozart had to say about this sort of situation
.
In Dr. Bartolo's aria (Act I/4) in the Marriage of Figaro (lyrics by Lorenzo da Ponte), Bartolo (10 years earlier) had managed to lose control of his youthful ward, whom he had intended to marry (in the best commedia tradition), in part due to the machinations of the local barber, Figaro

A decade later, his anger and thoughts of revenge are unabated. (all chronishled in Rossini's opera, written 30 years or so later)

I always thought this backwards Golden Rule a perfect antidote to long term holders of grudges.

La vendetta, oh, la vendetta! Vengeance, oh, vengeance
È un piacer serbato ai saggi. Is a pleasure reserved for the wise
L'obliar l'onte e gli oltraggi To overlook affront and insult
è bassezza, è ognor viltà. Belongs to the base and cowardly

(emphasis mine).

I was personally insulted and humiliated by Pat's complaint to the NCAA to an extent I have shared with only a few Boneyarders. You are not nor will you be among them. I have (read my posts in this thread) advocated renewal of the UConn-Tennessee series because it will IMO stimulate interest in wcbb. That is the overriding consideration.

I enjoyed the quote from your idol, Herr Mozart. I like a shorter quote from an idol of mine, Brigadier General Tony McAuliffe, when surrounded and facing possible annihilation at Bastogne. The Germans demanded he surrender his 101st Airborne Division. His response: "Nuts!"

And I offer you the same terse comment.

 

[DobbsRover2]

To all those who are decrying all the extra decibels that have been emitted by Vol and UConn fans against each other over the past dozen and a half years, I can only assume you are not members of the Yankees\Red Sox or Dodgers\Giants feud nests and more likely have the traits of the A's\Phillies sparring partners (hey, we can both share the City of Brotherly Love now that one of us moved away a while back). One of the beauties of sports is the opportunity to unleash shock and awe barrages against main rivals who fire back with cruder but highly imaginative salvos. Baseball, football, women's college basketball -- it's the sport within the sport.

What WCBB really doesn't need right now is the passion and energy of fan bases sapped away by groovy peace-l0ve-and-empathy why-can't-we-all-be-friends happy fests. Ethnic slurs and personal appearance\orientation attacks should be left to the mountain clan folk to amuse themselves with, but a world of nicey-nice fans who are willing to go all amnesia over the past actions of the orange kind is a bit revolting. MMC's latest little spiteful tease that the Vol admins firmly refute just shows how well received any "forgive and forget" talk will be in the Knoxville spittoons. Sure, make yourselves feel good -- but you still gotta be kidding. And keep wishing for and dreaming about the Dream Series that has nada chances because of Pat's wishes -- her enduring bequest to WCBB.

 

[Bayareahusky]

As for this potential restart of the series, WE DO NOT NEED IT...... Unfortunately, all of WCBB could use it...... Interest in the WCBB game could have been escalated had PHS not cancelled the series..... It is the one game both men and women would tune into......

It is so ironic that UTenn needs the game more than us to reestablish their national relevance......

I am glad that Geno and Holly get along, but let's wait until the NCAAs, and then let's crush them!

 

[RadyLady]

Since we were going "all classical" here I had thought to post a clip of "vesti la guibba" with the famous line "ridi Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infronto" (laugh clown, at your broken heart), but after thinking about it for a while I wonder if I would be mocking the folks who clearly remember (and were personally involved in some of) the circumstances surrounding the events that lead up to the "break up" of UConn and Tennessee and hold firm their distaste, rightly so, which I don't want to do, or would it be correctly aimed at the people who decry the past and gloss over without knowing the details of what happened and hold out for the reinstatement of the series - which we now know will not happen, thanks to UConnCat's earlier post.

ridi, pagliaccio, e ognun applaudirà.....

 

[JS]

I mainly blame the A.D.s for not having the nerve to do what they should have done.... keep the series going. Coaches don't(or shouldn't) run the athletic departments.

Stop blaming the ADs, plural, and you've finally got a defensible position, at least theoretically. To what end, I don't know.

Pat Summitt was the one who ended the series, as several folks have accurately informed you. As for your "more than one person is responsible:"

Yeah. You can add Summitt's staff, who went along with her. Surprise, surprise. Can just imagine them saying, "Forget it, Pat. Don't be such a jealous janet."

You can argue that the Tennessee AD should have stopped her.

Should have, that is, as viewed by you from on high. It was out of the question in the real world, where the power dynamics and relationship were such that there was no freakin' way.

Tennessee had a separate women's AD, Joan Cronan, until the AD's were merged last June. Summitt was the tail wagging the Tennessee women's athletics department, and Cronan was women's AD for 29 of Summitt's 38 years as coach.

Cronan: "We've always laughed because I wanted her to coach as long as she could, because she was a pretty good AD when she was coaching." (WBIR.com, 5/2/12)

So much for the Tennessee AD should've cracked the whip on Pat. She not only didn't crack it, she wrote the accusatory "we'd prefer to remain anonymous" poison pen letter about UConn to the SEC.

Turning to UConn, you can't plausibly argue the UConn AD, whether or not possessed of nerve, or anyone else on the UConn side, had the ability to keep the series going when Summitt decided it would end.

So, you're left with the abstract proposition that an AD should be the boss of a coach (and should, incidentally, have seen it your way). Fair enough, provided you recognize that, in reality, it isn't always the case (see, e.g., Paterno, J. and Summitt, P.)

And that's why people have a problem with your both-sides-were-to-blame sally. Whatever your reason for advancing it, it suffers from the appreciable defect of being unsupportable.

 

[Icebear]

I guess I will end my participation in this by stating that more than one person is responsible. If you will read my later response, I mainly blame the A.D.s for not having the nerve to do what they should have done.... keep the series going. Coaches don't(or shouldn't) run the athletic departments.

Both parties are not responsible when one takes unilateral action. It is silliness to say so. Now if you want to say that both parties are responsible for seeking a resolution and working towards restarting the series today that may be true.