Vital and Gilbert

[ctchamps]

Wow I need to see that we made our run with AG making great decisions on the break and in half court. We lost that lead with AG on the bench and CV handling the ball way too much. I mean it can happen but at no point vs IU were we better with him in the bench. Unfortunately we weren’t better when he went back to the PG we don’t like to see either.

You and I are both defense first guys. Which is why you pointed out CV’s defense in an earlier post. It’s reasonable but myopic imo if people focus on the offense and not the defense in the three losses.

In all three losses Akok was neutralized on defense. In The St. Joes game it was four guards who spread the floor and were unconscious hitting threes. In the Xavier game Akok sat out the second half and overtimes because of an injury. In the Indiana game it was fouls.

Ken Pom statistics demonstrate success is predicated more on defense than offense. So in a balanced approach to suggesting how the team should play (and who and what Hurley should be examining in playing time) people overlooking defensive contributions are missing the major component to success and the reason why JC and Geno are HOF coaches. They emphasized defense over offense.

 

[pj]

I'm not sure more minutes for the former wouldn't make us better this year and next.

We absolutely need a backup point guard, and nobody on this roster can do it apart from Gaffney.

 

[mauconnfan]

You and I are both defense first guys. Which is why you pointed out CV’s defense in an earlier post. It’s reasonable but myopic imo if people focus on the offense and not the defense in the three losses.

In all three losses Akok was neutralized on defense. In The St. Joes game it was four guards who spread the floor and were unconscious hitting threes. In the Xavier game Akok sat out the second half and overtimes because of an injury. In the Indiana game it was fouls.

Ken Pom statistics demonstrate success is predicated more on defense than offense. So in a balanced approach to suggesting how the team should play (and who and what Hurley should be examining in playing time) people overlooking defensive contributions are missing the major component to success and the reason why JC and Geno are HOF coaches. They emphasized defense over offense.

Akok is exciting and he's a difference maker. Unfortunately the refs can be too and for now he seems to be a guy they find some cheap calls to stick to. He is going to get better game by game during the year will be a fun watch. Need him to keep the hands in the pocket which is a tough ask in a physical game. Sid did a really nice job the other day in his minutes too he looks to be starting to get it. That's huge if he can defend and rebound off the bench.

 

[Shine33]

Gaffney was crapping his pants the last game and prior has hardly shown the ability to take his guy off the dribble and make something happen. Adams isn’t close to being a PG and wil never be. When he was on a roll he was good off the ball last couple he’s starting to look like last year. Bouk needs to step up but he’s not a PG either. They need AG to play smart and make some shots or it will be a very long year.

What the heck is your deal dude? You completely took my post and put your own spin on it. And in a very aggressive way mind you.

Who said I wanted B Adams at pg?? And did I say Gaffney played well last game? I think he is CAPABLE, key word is CAPABLE of helping us get to the tourney. And let me be clear by help us get to the tourney I mean “ help” as in provide good minutes off the bench. Not take over anyone else’s starting position or anything.

He has the skill set he’s just timid out there right now which is why I want us to use the next few cupcake games to get him more burn and more comfortable out there.

And I never said anything about Bouk playing PG either.

Literally the only thing I wanna see is all those guys I mentioned get either more time on the floor (Gaffney, B Adams) and more shots up (Bouk, Polley , Akok). Now go lower your blood pressure please.

 

[ctchamps]

Akok is exciting and he's a difference maker. Unfortunately the refs can be too and for now he seems to be a guy they find some cheap calls to stick to. He is going to get better game by game during the year will be a fun watch. Need him to keep the hands in the pocket which is a tough ask in a physical game. Sid did a really nice job the other day in his minutes too he looks to be starting to get it. That's huge if he can defend and rebound off the bench.

Sid’s play was beyond anything I expected. He was the only pulse for a good part of the second half for either team.

In addition to the defense Akok is providing as well as the level of play for a freshman, I'm wondering if he will be the inspirational leader of the team like Kemba, Caron and Khalid.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Well they must be slow learner's because I remember them being on the team last year.

Did you not read, "I do not think there is enough time this year to break the ingrained bad habits after 1 year and 9 games of good coaching"

The point I am making is that they've had LAST year with Dan Hurley and are 9 games into this year and they still fall back into bad habits.

Thank you for validating my comments.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Gaffney was crapping his pants the last game and prior has hardly shown the ability to take his guy off the dribble and make something happen. Adams isn’t close to being a PG and wil never be. When he was on a roll he was good off the ball last couple he’s starting to look like last year. Bouk needs to step up but he’s not a PG either. They need AG to play smart and make some shots or it will be a very long year.

Mau man, how are you going to help Gaff from being like that. I don't think by having him watch CV and Al play. More minutes, Taliek in his ear, more minutes. Build him up, coach him up. I know Dan Hurley doesn't need any advise from me or 99.9% 98% of us on here (I'm feeling generous). Just an arm chair dude's opinion.

 

[mauconnfan]

Mau man, how are you going to help Gaff from being like that. I don't think by having him watch CV and Al play. More minutes, Taliek in his ear, more minutes. Build him up, coach him up. I know Dan Hurley doesn't need any advise from me or 99.9% of us on here. Just an arm chair dude's opinion.

I hear you we need him to gain confidence and make plays there’s lots of potential there. Baby steps it would seem for him. Take the good from Al and also learn from the negative. Earn the time for now he hasn’t. Let’s hope he becomes a solid back up as the year moves forward.

 

[jdb50]

Next three games Gaffney has to get time as the PG with a solid supporting cast not the second line. He has been real reluctant to assert himself with the ball and we need him in case Alt gets in foul trouble again. The upper classmen are making mistakes, don't worry about it and go play. Sid had real quality minutes and let's hope he keeps building on this. He brings another dimension to our front court that only Akok does. Range, hops and athleticism. These next 3 games have to have the younger guys gaining confidence.

 

[Waquoit]

What the heck is your deal dude? You completely took my post and put your own spin on it. And in a very aggressive way mind you.

Hey Jake, it's the Boneyard.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

This is all a good discussion. I do think Gilbert needs to be the primary point guard, and I hope to heck he finds his shot. He's a much better player penetrating/distributing than penetrating/finishing, and if he can go to penetrating and hitting floaters and pullups, that will really help the team.

But Gaffney and Bouknight need PT this year too. Maybe they were a bit deer-in-the-headlights against IU, but by the second week of conference season they need to be contributors against good teams. Otherwise our depth isn't what we would hope it would be.

Vital's end-of-game play reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity: Doing the same failing thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[EBonz30]

The Gilbert situation is pretty clear & understandable, there is something wrong with the mechanics of his shot & until that gets fixed he’s going to continue to look really bad because his confidence is lost. The guy is passing up open shots but then forcing shots to try to shoot out of the slump, not sure how to fix his situation unless somehow he starts shooting better.

As far as Vital, he is what he’s always been, just not a very smart basketball player & I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

 

[tentoes4rings]

The Gilbert situation is pretty clear & understandable, there is something wrong with the mechanics of his shot & until that gets fixed he’s going to continue to look really bad because his confidence is lost. The guy is passing up open shots but then forcing shots to try to shoot out of the slump, not sure how to fix his situation unless somehow he starts shooting better.

As far as Vital, he is what he’s always been, just not a very smart basketball player & I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

There is more than meets the eye with Christian and what we expect from him. He was a 3 star high school player who committed late and was the least heralded of the Top 5. Due to transfers, AG’s injuries and ineffectiveness, and poor recruiting he’s been looked upon as a feature player, which is much more than he was projected to ever be. Not the kid’s fault, more of the effect of running a poor program for 4 years and having nobody better to turn to. He should have always been a role player who provided energy and provided a boost, not a guy taking crucial shots.

 

[tower1]

We absolutely need a backup point guard, and nobody on this roster can do it apart from Gaffney.

We need a starting point we have a couple of backups. Gilbert had a couple of descent games dishing the ball and lately he is back to himself making bad decisions and awful shots.

 

[superjohn]

Next three games Gaffney has to get time as the PG with a solid supporting cast not the second line. He has been real reluctant to assert himself with the ball and we need him in case Alt gets in foul trouble again. The upper classmen are making mistakes, don't worry about it and go play. Sid had real quality minutes and let's hope he keeps building on this. He brings another dimension to our front court that only Akok does. Range, hops and athleticism. These next 3 games have to have the younger guys gaining confidence.

Hurley needs to completely scrap his hockey line change.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Hurley needs to completely scrap his hockey line change.

Earlier in the season the second unit looked great, but at this point I agree he needs to trim the rotation a bit and blend bench players in with starters more. Unless we were playing a full court press for 40 minutes, the current substitution patterns don’t make sense:

 

[tower1]

Gilbert had 8 assists and 3 TOs. In a game where no one on our team could take care of the ball Gilbert was solid.

Really what game where you watching ??

 

[Pmurph678]

Really what game where you watching ??

Sucks when stats don't align with your narrative.

 

[ctchamps]

Sucks when stats don't align with your narrative.

And citing partial stats do??? Me thinks he's referring to shooting 1-9 as a stat to make his case. So on offense he contributed 9 positives and 11 negatives. This is not the definition of solid. But the statistics demonstrate the need for Gilbert to improve his shooting or else it will be a long season.

 

[imno1]

And citing partial stats do??? Me thinks he's referring to shooting 1-9 as a stat to make his case. So on offense he contributed 9 positives and 11 negatives. This is not the definition of solid. But the statistics demonstrate the need for Gilbert to improve his shooting or else it will be a long season.

Al does need to improve his shooting but what may be a quicker remedy would be less shots from him and more for Polley, Bouk, and Akok.

 

[ctchamps]

Al does need to improve his shooting but what may be a quicker remedy would be less shots from him and more for Polley, Bouk, and Akok.

No argument but if he doesn’t shoot and make some shots then defenders play off him making it harder to distribute the ball to those players.

 

[imno1]

No argument but if he doesn’t shoot and make some shots then defenders play off him making it harder to distribute the ball to those players.

Just less shots. I think he's averaging about 10 a game.

 

[Pmurph678]

And citing partial stats do??? Me thinks he's referring to shooting 1-9 as a stat to make his case. So on offense he contributed 9 positives and 11 negatives. This is not the definition of solid. But the statistics demonstrate the need for Gilbert to improve his shooting or else it will be a long season.

All I said was he wasn’t turning the ball over and distributing well, he disagreed.

No one said anything about shooting, obviously Al can’t shoot right now.

 

[mauconnfan]

What the heck is your deal dude? You completely took my post and put your own spin on it. And in a very aggressive way mind you.

Who said I wanted B Adams at pg?? And did I say Gaffney played well last game? I think he is CAPABLE, key word is CAPABLE of helping us get to the tourney. And let me be clear by help us get to the tourney I mean “ help” as in provide good minutes off the bench. Not take over anyone else’s starting position or anything.

He has the skill set he’s just timid out there right now which is why I want us to use the next few cupcake games to get him more burn and more comfortable out there.

And I never said anything about Bouk playing PG either.

Literally the only thing I wanna see is all those guys I mentioned get either more time on the floor (Gaffney, B Adams) and more shots up (Bouk, Polley , Akok). Now go lower your blood pressure please.

What's my deal dude? Aggressive? Wow you need some thicker skin. I merely answered your "younger guys need to take some minutes away" thoughts with the facts. I wasn't aggressive or even disagreeing completely just talking as we see it right now. We have no one to impact this team from a high volume of minutes at the PG unfortunately to grab a ton of minutes from AG. He, for now, is the only one I see who can get us to even sniff the tourney and forcing minutes on Gaffney is not the answer until he proves he can impact the team in a positive manner. He dribbles around the perimeter, rarely making a positive move to the basket. And he's not close on the defensive end although he has shown improvement. We need a better Gaffney, hell he's a big part of the future but for now he isn't close. Maybe the "cupcakes" help but right after the cupcakes is league games which we need to win every game possible. Hope he becomes a bigger piece of a successful season but if AG plays the way he should we need 30-35 out of him anyway.

Now that's just the PG. Bouk needs to earn some minutes too but we need him to do just that. He's an impact kid and need him to become exactly what he can be and soon. His ability brings too much potential to the offense which we need desperately so I hope he finds a way to get 20-25 minutes at least a game very soon this squad needs his skill set on the floor.

 

[mauconnfan]

And citing partial stats do??? Me thinks he's referring to shooting 1-9 as a stat to make his case. So on offense he contributed 9 positives and 11 negatives. This is not the definition of solid. But the statistics demonstrate the need for Gilbert to improve his shooting or else it will be a long season.

11 negatives? That's unfair everyone misses shots, maybe not as many at AG right now but let's not bring that into the negative area. Hell Harden would be a pitiful NBA player half the time if that were the case fleudy.

 

[mauconnfan]

We need a starting point we have a couple of backups. Gilbert had a couple of descent games dishing the ball and lately he is back to himself making bad decisions and awful shots.

Lately is one game and only part of it. We don't have capable back ups or they'd be playing more. He needs to play as we need him to or we will be looking at a similar season as the last few.

 

[mauconnfan]

Al does need to improve his shooting but what may be a quicker remedy would be less shots from him and more for Polley, Bouk, and Akok.

Agree on this. And I hate pointing to the staff but I watch a lot of college games. What I see is teams with a good shooter or shooters able to get open looks for them when they need to. We haven't done that for Tyler or others, especially Tyler. He's been forced to take defended shots way too often only getting open looks off loose balls and rebounds, rarely off a set play. We need to get him open, double picks whatever it takes. He is targeted now and who can blame the other teams he can make shots. Get him open and get Bouk in the game at the same time when needed. The last game when we came out of a TO and needed a hoop to see Bouk in the bench was a head scratcher!?!??!

 

[evmore]

I’d like to see either Gilbert or Vital come off the bench. Both seem to make a lot of mistakes, and I think by starting Bouknight over one of them (and maybe both Bouknight and Gaffney over Vital and Gilbert) we will be a better team by the end of the season. I don’t know how Hurley doesn’t see that both of them are liabilities - they both cost us vs Xavier and are gonna cost us tonight vs Indiana. Does anyone else see this and agree?

I don't think AG is a bench player.. Even with his shooting down he is best suited to run the offense. CV is another story.. His defense is what makes him start on this team. I sensed that there might be some jealousy over Bouknight's early media hype/attention, and that would only make CV press more offensively trying to prove himself. Swapping the two and letting CV come in looking to score might solve some of that, or it might mess with their chemistry even more. We definitely need a boost.. It was as if they were playing a game to 15 vs Indiana.. once we got to 15-6 and started chest-bumping i started to worry,.

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't think AG is a bench player.. Even with his shooting down he is best suited to run the offense. CV is another story.. His defense is what makes him start on this team. I sensed that there might be some jealousy over Bouknight's early media hype/attention, and that would only make CV press more offensively trying to prove himself. Swapping the two and letting CV come in looking to score might solve some of that, or it might mess with their chemistry even more. We definitely need a boost.. It was as if they were playing a game to 15 vs Indiana.. once we got to 15-6 and started chest-bumping i started to worry,.

Great points and really interesting on the Bouk thoughts, could be spot on.

 

[Waquoit]

Swapping the two and letting CV come in looking to score might solve some of that, or it might mess with their chemistry even more.

That's the rub. Would CV's demotion hurt the team more through his being disruptive? Who cares, I say make the change. The status quo is unacceptable.