Vital and Gilbert

[OkaForPrez]

That's the rub. Would CV's demotion hurt the team more through his being disruptive? Who cares, I say make the change. The status quo is unacceptable.

Playing time is earned through defense. Mess with that premise and you lose your identity. Bouk hasn't earned it yet.

 

[mauconnfan]

Playing time is earned through defense. Mess with that premise and you lose your identity. Bouk hasn't earned it yet.

Agree with you both strangely enough LOL. Tough one need Bouk's presence but need Vitals toughness although he needs to shoot a lot better and turn it over a lot less. Tough call Bouk has to guard better though, I think he can rebound it a lot like Christian.

 

[Waquoit]

Playing time is earned through defense. Mess with that premise and you lose your identity. Bouk hasn't earned it yet.

Why do people assume because someone can't shoot they are good on D? Then you actually watch them and they are getting beat twice in a row by some guy on Maine.

Besides those are just words. If they were written in stone UConn would have zero titles because KEA would have never played.

 

[CL82]

Vital is a 6th man. Sadly.

No he isn't, sadly.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Agree on this. And I hate pointing to the staff but I watch a lot of college games. What I see is teams with a good shooter or shooters able to get open looks for them when they need to. We haven't done that for Tyler or others, especially Tyler. He's been forced to take defended shots way too often only getting open looks off loose balls and rebounds, rarely off a set play. We need to get him open, double picks whatever it takes. He is targeted now and who can blame the other teams he can make shots. Get him open and get Bouk in the game at the same time when needed. The last game when we came out of a TO and needed a hoop to see Bouk in the bench was a head scratcher!?!??!

Actually, what I see is teams with good spacing and crisp passing who force defenders to commit to one shooter while leaving another open.

The problem isn't that we don't try to get looks for Polley. The issue is that we don't have 2 other threats standing at the perimeter. It's easy to key on one guy.

 

[ctchamps]

11 negatives? That's unfair everyone misses shots, maybe not as many at AG right now but let's not bring that into the negative area. Hell Harden would be a pitiful NBA player half the time if that were the case fleudy.

Out of the 18 statistically documented offensive opportunities Al was involved with there were eleven offensive possessions that failed in scoring versus nine that resulted in scores. It wasn’t my intention to diss Alterique but to give an approximately accurate accounting of possessions Al was involved with in the Indiana game.

Stats do not describe motion offense such as setting picks which a player contributes but does not get statistical credit so they are incomplete but I believe in the case I made the stats indicate enough to demonstrate that Al, on the offensive side of things, did not have a “solid” offensive performance in the Indiana game which was declared by a poster who only pointed out the 8 assists to 3 turnovers.

The debatable discussion boils down to the weight that should be given to attributes and shortcomings players offer in a game. We all have our biases. Currently imo Alterique is the only player who can create and distribute with efficiency although an argument can be made for Brendan.

However both have demonstrated shortcomings. Al struggles finishing at the basket and is shooting worse than Tarin Smith. Brendan does not have as tight a handle limiting his ability to drive but is shooting decently. I would consider both as showing only average or slightly above average passing so far. This last point is personal observation based on passes and how those passes offer the recipient the ease of completing a play.

It would be nice if a player did not get penalized with not getting an assist because it was not his responsibility the attempt failed. On the other hand I’d like to see the player not given credit if the receiving player bailed out the passer. In the Indiana game Josh did both. Additionally I believe he was credited with at least one turnover because of a poor pass or a pass made that shouldn’t have been made.

As an aside I find it interesting that people reduce value to the defense of our starting guards (prevention of players driving to the basket, steals, disruption of opposing sets, timing their release in defending to get a defensive rebound) when we lose. We do this even as we laud Ricky Moore or the defensive play of Bazz and Boat. We do this knowing that JC made it a point to cut off the head of an opposing team’s offense. In general this forum doesn’t discuss that play or consider it in evaluating a player’s overall value in a game. It’s casual assessment and sloppy analysis.

 

[ctchamps]

Actually, what I see is teams with good spacing and crisp passing who force defenders to commit to one shooter while leaving another open.

The problem isn't that we don't try to get looks for Polley. The issue is that we don't have 2 other threats standing at the perimeter. It's easy to key on one guy.

We also lack the players who can set decent picks or screens. Has there been a game in which Josh did not pick up at least one foul as the result of releasing too quickly?

 

[Towney007]

Out of the 18 statistically documented offensive opportunities Al was involved with there were eleven offensive possessions that failed in scoring versus nine that resulted in scores. It wasn’t my intention to diss Alterique but to give an approximately accurate accounting of possessions Al was involved with in the Indiana game.

Stats do not describe motion offense such as setting picks which a player contributes but does not get statistical credit so they are incomplete but I believe in the case I made the stats indicate enough to demonstrate that Al, on the offensive side of things, did not have a “solid” offensive performance in the Indiana game which was declared by a poster who only pointed out the 8 assists to 3 turnovers.

The debatable discussion boils down to the weight that should be given to attributes and shortcomings players offer in a game. We all have our biases. Currently imo Alterique is the only player who can create and distribute with efficiency although an argument can be made for Brendan.

However both have demonstrated shortcomings. Al struggles finishing at the basket and is shooting worse than Tarin Smith. Brendan does not have as tight a handle limiting his ability to drive but is shooting decently. I would consider both as showing only average or slightly above average passing so far. This last point is personal observation based on passes and how those passes offer the recipient the ease of completing a play.

It would be nice if a player did not get penalized with not getting an assist because it was not his responsibility the attempt failed. On the other hand I’d like to see the player not given credit if the receiving player bailed out the passer. In the Indiana game Josh did both. Additionally I believe he was credited with at least one turnover because of a poor pass or a pass made that shouldn’t have been made.

As an aside I find it interesting that people reduce value to the defense of our starting guards (prevention of players driving to the basket, steals, disruption of opposing sets, timing their release in defending to get a defensive rebound) when we lose. We do this even as we laud Ricky Moore or the defensive play of Bazz and Boat. We do this knowing that JC made it a point to cut off the head of an opposing team’s offense. In general this forum doesn’t discuss that play or consider it in evaluating a player’s overall value in a game. It’s casual assessment and sloppy analysis.

This is another point worth noting... preventing points can be just as important as scoring them - and frankly for all of their offensive shortcomings - both CV and Gilbert and defend pretty well. Gaffney's just not that good defensively and for as good as he is offensively - I've been really, really underwhelmed by Bouknight's defense. It's sloppy and handsy.

It's not really that cut and dry of a situation.

 

[ctchamps]

This is another point worth noting... preventing points can be just as important as scoring them - and frankly for all of their offensive shortcomings - both CV and Gilbert and defend pretty well. Gaffney's just not that good defensively and for as good as he is offensively - I've been really, really underwhelmed by Bouknight's defense. It's sloppy and handsy.

It's not really that cut and dry of a situation.

CV should never be running point. But that really isn't his fault. The problem primarily lies with a decent and reliable back up to Alterique when he's in foul trouble or playing poorly.

His shot selection is perceived as horrible. When you're a volume streak shooter, going through slumps and the player who disproportionately takes and misses the last shot in a winnable game if the shot is made there is no way anyone can defend him by pointing out the games he won when his shooting was on. Heck Donyell is still looked at slightly negatively for missing two free throws that could have clinched an NCAA game.

But those two negatives, as important as they are, should not cause an unbiased individual to negate CV's three positives - defensive rebounding, man to man defense, and foul shooting.

Freshman year CV was needed to rebound but he did so by sacrificing defense on his player resulting in a high frequency of that player making 3 pointers. He's essentially eliminated that by improving his timing as to when to leave his player. We don't win our first NC if Rip did not develop a similar timing strength by knowing when to help out on defensive rebounding and when to leak for a fast break. CV is rebounding at an astounding rate for a guard and not given credit because of the anger towards his weaknesses.

Examining some other players Brendan appears to be getting this. Tyler is just starting to show hints. People critical of Tyler's rebounding numbers don't understand he's been a great man to man glue guy. He sacrifices looking peripherally and releasing but he's not getting burnt frequently by his players driving to the basket or making 3 pt shots. Akok is a wunderkind. Bouknight is working on just staying with his player and not fouling him when the opposing player gets a step on him. When his lateral reflexes improve he will defend better, get more playing time, and I believe be an excellent defensive rebounder. Jalen is just getting used to college speed. Al is too short.

I'll add one more thing - how I believe CV should be played at the end of a tight game. @Waquoit proposes he shouldn't be in the game at that critical point. Actually he'd like to see him traded. But his first recommendation isn't without merit. It's a toss up based on attributes versus liabilities. There are three attributes versus two liabilities but imo, and someone can verify the data, CV's excellent FT numbers are statistically poor at the end of important close games. Now it's down to an above average defender and rebounder critically necessary at the end of a game for defense and a player who loses composure on the offensive end. If I'm correct, Hurley needs to keep at least one time out at the end of a game to substitute CV out when UConn has a last offensive play to win. Or he needs to understand that with all of CV's bravado, he's a fragile player who loses composure when things get stressful. A team psychologist just might solve many of his problems.